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Jlizzy
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Joined: 10/10/2004
Msg: 276 | |
| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/2/2006 12:37:57 AM | Btw just to point out -on my 2nd point..I am not trying to diminish anyone's experience who has suffered from severe depression. Rather I am trying to point out that at the end of the day we are all human beings with emotions, our good days, our bad days etc who are in the same boat...
Granted I know there are levels of depression I haven't come close to experiencing but I have had my own moments in life and I know that what I have experienced myself is already enough that I wouldn't want to wish on another human being. I know that I myself am not somoene who could ever be diagnosed with an actual psychological problem. Far from it and yet I certainly have got into the deep dark hole myself a number of times.. | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/2/2006 3:35:36 AM | and until, you have endured the daily walk through quicksand of living with depression
Fortunately I know better, therefore it'll never happen, if you read all of my posts, you may be able to see why.
you know not of what you speak
Well, it seems that you know everything about me…… (¿?¿?¿?)
but the fact is depression is a true physical malaise
This doesn’t mean that the CAUSE OF IT is an organic abnormality.
but it is a tangible, physical sensation of pain The EFFECT of a situation is not the CAUSE of it. Just because there is no physical measure for this problem I didn't say anything about "measuring it". What I said id that there are NOT SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO VALIDATE IT AS A DISEASE/ILLNESS, SINCE THERE IS NOT SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF ANY CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. The "disease" is been treated chemically, and there's no evidence of ANY ORGANIC/CHEMICAL ABNORMALITY. doesn’t mean it’s existence can be piffled away with a collection of words You need to read all my posts; I never questioned or denied the existence of such a condition I am here to tell you that not only does depression cause the usual cognitive problems, it actually PHYSICALLY HURTS. The entire body aches. It is a sensation that I have yet to be able to describe...but it is a tangible, physical sensation of pain...and it is constant during the entire time the depression is active. I would not wish it on my worst enemy Different people may be affected in different ways, while I acknowledge that you feel the way you say you do, I have seen many people with this condition and physical pain haven't been a constant, the other thing would be to determine if the pain is a consequence of the situation itself or any other agent, like medicine for instance, but am sure that you can talk to your doctor/physician about it, or whoever is helping you. I applaud the fact that you prefer alternatives to drugs, regarding whether they work or not, I already said that there's no evidence of the ORGANIC/CHEMICAL abnormality therefore, there's nothing organic/chemical to be corrected. That you "feel better" when you take those drugs.........well, I won't discuss that. I know from PERSONAL experience that depression is a discernable physical change which occurs within my physiological existence on this Earth. Although I won't question that you as a person who suffers that condition, may feel changes etc, that's very far from a scientific evidence of the CAUSE of an organic malfunction. Someday, I pray in my lifetime, there will be a measure for it which will enable the medical professionals to better treat depression in all its stages. I believe that you mean EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT IT IS AN ORGANIC MALFUNCTION what CAUSES it. If that's what you mean I say AMEN TO THAT..!!! Because that means that there WILL be a VALID REASON TO PUT PEOPLE ON DRUGS..!!!Oh and by the way...IF by taking the meds to bring the depression under control knocked off a few IQ points...so be it. I happily trade those points for a pain free and joyful life. However, again from personal experience, I’ve not noticed ANY discernable difference in my brain functionality after the ingestion of antidepressants. I believe that a grown up person has the right to do with its life whatever he/she pleases, as long as the person is not been tricked to believe in scammers. In other words, if somebody gives information to you, and you decide to observe because you think that it is important for you to know those things that you may not be aware of, or decide to ignore it because you think that you know better, or that you do with your life as you please, or ANY other reason you may think of, you have the absolute right to do so. Your life is yours. However, the consequence that you describe from the use of those drugs doesn’t seem to be the only type of consequence; January 17, 1989: Patrick Purdy, age 25; Purdy opened fire on a school yard full of young children in Stockton, California. During his vicious and unprovoked assault, Purdy killed five schoolchildren and wounded thirty others before killing himself. During the two years prior to the murders of the Stockton children, Purdy had been treated by psychiatrists who put him on the mind altering drugs Thorazine and Amitriptyline. 1995: Jarred Viktor, 16 years-old; Escondido, California; Stabbed his grandmother 61 times. Ten days prior to the murder, Jarred had been prescribed the anti-depressant Paxil. November 3, 1995: Sergeant Steven B. Christian, a twenty-five-year commended veteran of the Dallas police force drove to a police sub-station and seriously wounded an officer outside in his attempt to get inside and shoot others. Christian was shot and killed by two fellow Dallas police officers. The autopsy revealed high levels of an antidepressant in his blood April of 1996: Kurt Danysh (18); Was prescribed the drug Prozac (from Eli Lilly) by a general practitioner who failed to perform any psychological testing. Shortly after beginning to take his Prozac prescription, Kurt, a normally outgoing teenager, became withdrawn and moody. By the second week, he was restless and violent. He got into a fight with his best friend and purposely crashed his truck into a stone wall. This was out of character for Kurt. Seventeen days after his first dose of Prozac, he shot and killed his father by firing a shotgun blast into his father's head. Kurt had no history of violence prior to Prozac. He was convicted of murdering his father and sentenced to 22.5 to 60 years in prison. Kurt later said, "I didn't realize I did it until after it was done, and then I realized it. This might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing, like I was left there just holding a gun." http://www.teenscreentruth.com/psychiatry_drugs_suicide.html ^^^^^ http://www.psychiatry.info/deaths-caused-by-psychiatry/drug-company-the-fda-finally-admit-paxil-causes-increased-suicide-risk/ http://www.outlookcities.com/psych/ http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19025494.100.html | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/2/2006 9:27:06 AM | Do you know...there is not one person on this thread that cares what you "believe". You do not suffer from depression obviously, nor will you ever because you know all apparently so just go away. I am quite certain there are people that are at a low point in their lives right now reading your idiotic know it all posts and feeling even worse about themselves.
This thread does not concern you at all, go back to the scientology cult and leave the people who suffer from depression to cope with it however they see fit. | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/4/2006 4:13:41 AM | | I have a friend who's bi polar, people with that disorder should NOT drink. most people dont admit to attempting suicide, i think you did the right things, and i'd just let him go | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/4/2006 4:23:16 AM | King Romeo, depression is not the plague. I suffer from clinical depression and did take Zoloft for about four years before discontinuing the medication because of side effects. Why would it make you want to run for the hills if you found out your date had this disorder? I tend to be upfront about it anyway. I'm not good at hiding who I am, so a person might think I'm too pessimistic about things (I prefer to call it 'realistic') and then I'd bring up the depression issue. If this bothers him and he no longer wants to see me because of that then so be it.
Ninki | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/4/2006 4:31:25 AM | nelletx, thanks for this post. I just saw this thread and replied to the OP, without having read all 12 pages of it. You summed it up so well. Truly, people who do not suffer from depression have no idea what it's like and cannot imagine what we go through. What bothers me just as much as the depression is the fact that many people don't believe I have it, because I don't look sick or whatever. You're right about the physical pain; I too suffer from many aches and pains especially in the morning.
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/4/2006 4:42:18 AM | Ninki, I had some encouraging words for you, but no private messages from women...so I'll just say chin up, you are great...and take care... | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/9/2006 3:53:10 PM | Hi Vicky,
I used to work at the sheriffs dept as a jailer in Kansas, It is my experience that most people that tell others they are going to committ suicide do that as a way of asking for help. Im no professional on the matter, but your probably right on ending the matter. It is also my experience that the suicide attempts that were on my shift as a jailer always tended to happen on the shift with the most help. The one's however that were truly serious, came with out warning and got the job done unfortunately. It sounds like the guy your talking about, was using that for sympathy to get you to stay with him. Dont feel guilty about ending the relationship and remember this.. its not about you It was always about HIM.
Jack | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/14/2006 4:58:27 PM | | You did the right thing for yourself and that is all that is important. If he truely wanted to kill himself he would have done it in silence. He is looking for attention. It would not have been a healthy relationship for you to get involved with. Do not feal bad, it is not your problem to solve. | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/17/2006 4:07:38 AM | | I have read some of the replies that indicate to me that people consider depression a "disease". Depression is a state of mind that can or cannot be manic or chronic or simply a one day affair with the fact that things are not going so well. And to the person who compared depression to PMS, you must be a man. If a "person"...male or female, has a bad day, maybe they're depressed....suddenly, everyone is bi_polar or has add...why can't we just say, hey there is nothing wrong with me, except, I have to put a title on it so I won't feel guilty about being an idiot at times. | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/17/2006 6:00:27 AM | | Been there /done that! But I married the man and after 10 years when his bipolar illness came out into full blown-I found out he had suffered years earlier too. Not only that but his family was full of mental health problems too which he kept as a well hidden secret. It was easy for him to do this because they lived in another country and I had little contact with them. So I literally found out the hard way and we all suffered for it. The saddest part is he also passed down his genes to our 3 kids who now suffer from the same illness to various degrees. If I knew then what I know now I probably would never have had children with this man. My 10 year old son was so psychotic by the time he finally got to see a child psychiatrist that he went straight into hospital and it took 5 policemen to get him into the back of that ambulance! No parent would want that sort of life for their child! | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/17/2006 8:17:35 AM | Speaking from experience; run like hell. Chances are that if this person is on medication, they hope to someday be off the medication. And when they do get off of it, they will inevitably become a different person. So unless you are not worried about the long term, stay away from these people. Also, if someone isn't up front about being medicated than that is a bad sign right there.
My $.02 | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/17/2006 8:21:17 AM | | not dating someone with depression would be like not dating someone who is missing a foot...i think it would be superficial...everybody has their problems whether they are willing to admit it or not...if someone hid something like that from me i would be a little hurt that they didn't have enough faith in me but i would get over it and understand...it's not like people want to run to the mountain top and scream,"HEY GUESS WHAT EVERYONE I'M DEPRESSED!!!" | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/18/2006 4:33:31 AM | Here's a website for the uneducated non-believers...
http://depression.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=depression&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.med.harvard.edu%2Fpublications%2FOn_The_Brain%2FVolume05%2FNumber2%2FDepress.html
It does exist, it is very real and costs society more than $43 billion per year and
also effects 1 in every 5 people in their lifetime.. | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/18/2006 4:26:41 PM | Their can be a thousand different reasons why a person gets depressed but one thing is sure depressed people treat themselves (which is often very badly) It is important to treat yourslef more kindly. The more you learn to value yourslef or at least to stop devaluing yourself the greater your chance of overcoming the depression.
i sufferred abuse as a child beaten daily by my stepdad and i never learnt to value myself and i was not wanted as a child, my mother planned to have me given away. I grew up feelong hurt and angry. and not thinking i was very importat but you know they were just unhappy mixed up people and i have learnt to forgive. They were the best parents they could be although they were crap, alot of the time and i am sure they did not mean it. My stepdad apologisced to me later for how he treated me.
They are both dead now.
My faith has helped me alot I know how much God loves me and i was chosen even before i was born. When you know God,s love it makes you feel secure.
I have brought up five kids on my own, and i have nearly finished my degree and i am doing okay. I was not always like this, i used to be dead skinny and a state and i had to have counselling. I used to be quite unselfish and did not have enough regard for myself, i make my kids help me more now now around the house. I was like this because i was just not used to being cared for but used to taking care of everyone else. I had relaionships with men who treated me badly becuase that was normal to me being treated in that way. but I would never let anyone now treat me like that.
We can grow up with an opinion about ourselves others give us such as we are not wanted lovable or whatever it is just an opinion, it is not truth. learn to stop critisizing yourself as well and say nice things about yourself and read what God says about you, we all have equal worth to God. Take care and God bless you. | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/18/2006 4:32:08 PM | | Those people who criticize people with depression, i think people like that are just as insecure and one thing i was taught is you ashould never judge anyone until you know what they have been through in life including your own parents. Their are oftn reasons why people are like they are often the products of their own upbringing. | |
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Domtar
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Joined: 8/12/2006
Msg: 293 | |
| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/18/2006 5:59:13 PM | | For me it really depends on whether or not its relavent. I've had bf's I've told, and I've had bf's I haven't. I've done the meds, recovered and now live a relatively normal life. I probably wouldn't go into details about an old knee injury or bronchitis unless the subject came up so why would depression be any different? In my opinion I think if you're depression is ruining a relationship, then it is because a good management stratagy hasn't been found yet and probably means its not the best time to be starting a new relationship. Obviously easier said then done but I think you need to find what works to get you through it on your own before you add another person into the mix. | |
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shinxy
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Joined: 3/5/2006
Msg: 294 | |
| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/18/2006 7:11:47 PM | | It is no secret that life is hard...Sometimes people need help. I would not hide depression at all. If someone loves me enough, then they will love me enough to be that support that I need to help me through it. Depression just means really that you need someone to lean on. Why is that bad? and if the meds help us to become normal, why hide it? | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/19/2006 1:39:13 PM | | First of all, I want to apologize for not reading all the posts in this thread (there were just too many!) For me, it all started in 1989 with the birth of my first daughter. I was diagnosed with post-partum depression, but never treated for it. It eventually went away on its own, but returned with the birth of my second daughter. That time I was treated with anti-depressants. After a living hell for 11 years, I was finally properly diagnosed as being Bipolar 2. In retrospect and after a lot of reading on the subject, I realize I was not suffering from post-partum depression, but full-blown mania. I am grateful for my meds! It sure beats the hell I was in before!! I will have to take them until the day I die and I don't have a problem with that. My ex considered me to be weak because I had a mental illness, but I believe that we don't even begin to realize our strength until we are faced with adversity. There is a HUGE stigma attached to mental illness, but I had a doctor tell me that my chemical imbalance is no different than a diabetic who is dependent on his/her insulin. I am very upfront with whoever I am dating about my illness and if they have a problem with it, then they are not someone that I would want in my life anyway. When I tell people about my illness, they are shocked because I am so "normal" and "upbeat". Gee, I guess the meds are working! | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 8/19/2006 2:42:45 PM | ^^^^^^^
That's great!! I'm glad for you ...and then you get people on the forums live nevergiveup or whatever her name is that tells people with depression to get over it...what's so funny about that is that she's a nurse | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 9/13/2006 10:26:51 PM | Mr "gmaverick"
I've read and fully absorbed your posts and replies of same. I'm not going to emphasize every minute detail as oulined In your posts/replies- as I believe It's futile In dealing with a one-sided opinionated Individual like yourself. I can't force a dog to eat cat food, so I won't bother correcting your observatory speculations on depression. As a non-sufferer, you seem to know "exactly" what It feels like to suffer from this unfortunate disease. And may I stipulate the word "disease".
If I may quote you:
"I never questioned or denied the existence of such a condition". Well you recognise that the "condition" as you put It, exists. Good, now we have a starting point. "Fortunately I know better, therefore it'll never happen". What do you know may I ask If you've never experienced depression? I can read a 25 volume book on how to re-build a plazma television but when put In practice, would I "KNOW" how to assemble It successfully? Correct, I wouldn't. Hence, you've read and documented your knowledge based on what??? Books? articles? People telling you their symptoms? Mmmm, It's getting Interesting Isn't It? "Therefore, It will never happen", you mentioned. Congratulations, you're now a certified clairvoyant!! Define "never?"
I will tell you: "Not ever; at no time in the past or future". Do you have a past? Do you have a future? Very contradictive huh??
Now, about depression- as I'm speaking as a sufferer, not by hearsay. You mentioned: "there's no evidence of ANY ORGANIC/CHEMICAL ABNORMALITY". Are you aware of the term "Serotonin?" Again, I will tell you: "Serotonin is found extensively in the human gastrointestinal tract (about 90%) as well as in the blood stream. The serotoninergic system is known to modulate mood, emotion, sleep and appetite and thus is implicated in the control of numerous behavioural and physiological functions, therefore depression may be evident as a result." Is the gastriontestinal tract and the blood stream of an "organic" nature??? One would definitely think so but In your case, obviously not. Why? Ohhh, my apologies, you must be "R2-D2" from Star Wars!!
Once again, I quote you: "However, the consequence that you describe from the use of those drugs doesn’t seem to be the only type of consequence". Doesn't "seem?" You're "seemingly" diagnosing people over the net and have a prognosis for them as well...
Congratulations, you're not only a clairvoyant but a medical practitioner too!!!
Put simply, walk before you run............. | |
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vivid
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Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 298 | |
| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 9/14/2006 1:21:09 AM | It does exist, it is very real and costs society more than $43 billion per year and
also effects 1 in every 5 people in their lifetime.
It's only REAL because it costs society $45 billion per year......the drug companies
wouldn't want their profits to dry up....what I believe depression is not the point of this thread, but the issue is the individual believes it's incurable;
I wouldn't date a girl with that condition.....my first gf had it; I didn't know it until
she tried to kick me down a flight of stairs. I always sensed something was wrong
but couldn't put my finger on it. I just thought I didn't understand women all
that well. Her behaviour continued to get worse but as much as I could possibly
appreciate what she was feeling, I became resentful of her as she continued
destroying every relationship and tried to divide and conquer mutal relationships.
It's extremely scary to be involved in that.
"Serotonin is found extensively in the human gastrointestinal tract (about 90%) as well as in the blood stream. The serotoninergic system is known to modulate mood, emotion, sleep and appetite and thus is implicated in the control of numerous behavioural and physiological functions, therefore depression may be evident as a result." Is the gastriontestinal tract and the blood stream of an "organic" nature??? One would definitely think so but In your case, obviously not. Why? Ohhh, my apologies, you must be "R2-D2" from Star Wars!
The BODY will ADAPT to the changes of one's mentality. The body doesn't alter
the individuals mentality....it's the person that changes the body (the other way around). The
body will create acid during stress, it'll change chemicals in the brain to
adapt to the individual. When the person's thinking is changed, the body will
return back to it's normal state. The body does not create the depression, it's
the mind that creates it and changes the biology of the person.
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 9/14/2006 1:28:30 AM |
The body will create and change to the personality and beliefs of an individual. The
body will create acid during stress, it'll change chemicals in the brain to
adapt to the individual. When the person's thinking is changed, the body will
return back to it's normal state.
Assuming, of course, that there's nothing biologically wrong to prevent that from happening - which is often the case.
The body does not create the depression, it's the mind that creates it and changes the biology of the person.
"It's not the gas that makes the car go - it's the engine. Keep the engine tuned and it'll go forever"
There are two types of depression - situational and chronic. For situational depression, vivid, it WILL go back to normal after a while - usually, within a month or so after the situation that's caused the depression in the first place has cleared.
For chronic depression, the body just isn't capable of manufacturing the proper chemicals to keep the brain in balance, for any number of reasons.
You can change your thinking all you like .... but regardless of how well-tuned your engine is, you're still going nowhere without gas. | |
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| A hidden truth.. Depression...
Posted: 9/14/2006 1:55:50 AM | >>>>>The BODY will ADAPT to the changes of one's mentality. The body doesn't alter
the individuals mentality....it's the person that changes the body (the other way around). The
body will create acid during stress, it'll change chemicals in the brain to
adapt to the individual. When the person's thinking is changed, the body will
return back to it's normal state. The body does not create the depression, it's
the mind that creates it and changes the biology of the person.<<<<<<<
You mentioned "The body doesn't alter the Individual's mentality" etc,etc.... So, If I cut my hand off whilst carving a piece of meat, I"ll just keep preparing dinner as If nothing's happened???? Of course the body alters your mentality. Statistically, around 70% of people who experience "chronic" back pain develop depression. Hence, depression In this case Is secondary to the chronic back pain......Enough said... | |
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