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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 1:37:13 PM | Yeah and i don't think its all because more people are taking it up necessarily,
I think the biggest change is the "Closet Smoker's" are seeing they finally don't need to lie and hide from the reality they smoke or smoked it. They won't be as put down as they may have been "back in the day", Ive known allot of people who went on about how bad it is and all this type crusade, just so nobody would figure that they did it too. (this type thing happens allot with lots of different thing's, not just smoking or pot, im sure everyone can think of an example of where someone acted one way to hide the truth of what they did.) | |
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Luxor:
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Joined: 5/31/2006
Msg: 28 | |
| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 1:51:30 PM | I see it as a soon be legalized substance. I also do not see it as a "drug" but would not argue with anyone who did....I feel everyone is entitled to think what they wish. I believe it effects each individual differently... and just as there are some people who just should not touch alcohol.. equally said for pot ....but hey...what do I know  | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 1:56:48 PM | | I consider myself a fairly clean living individual. I've never smoked a cigarette (that's right...NEVER) and only drink occassionally. On the other hand, I have smoked up a couple of times just because I didn't want to have a fawlty opinion without experimentation. Because of those two "experiments", I can understand why some people do it. Cigarettes are filled with harmful chemicals that slowly kill you. Alcohol is a depressant that can completely take personal control and throw it out the door. As well, the general feeling of being drunk is more of a poisoning of the body and it's attempt to rid the body of the excess. MJ is a natural weed (unless laced or split) and offers a safer, less physically harmful reaction to the body. With all this being said, my stance on the issue is that what drugs a person intakes into their body is their own choice just like it's my choice not to. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 2:38:53 PM |
pot is ok i guess...except what happens when kids spray it or lace it with something.I seen a kid that smoked pot like it was cigarettes.One day he smoked some that was laced with a trycycalic..an old form of anti depresion drug they used years ago.The kid had like a nervous breakdown..ended up in the Medicine hat hospital for almost 2 months.It did a chemical imbalance on his brain...and he is lucky that he can even walk and talk today.
A sad case and like I pointed out this is a product of the prohibition of marijuana...
There will always be people who have adverse reactions to the plant on its own but they will be exceedingly rare... there will also be people who shouldn't use it because they are using other drugs... how often do people mix it with booze recreationally?
Remember though it wasn't the pot itself but adulteration and having to deal with criminals that don't have any moral compunction to deal fairly with people in any way other than to make a fast buck and generate addicted customers. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 2:42:05 PM | I would have to go with..... depends on the user/use of the substance for me to develop any kind of opinion......
pffft, each to their own.
so I guess I don't really have "a take on pot" | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 5:34:05 PM | Ganja (Marijuana) is considered the "wisdom weed" by Rastafarians, as its use helps one to gain wisdom.....LOL
A little Ganja never hurt anybody......just makes ya laugh alot, burnout then get the major munchies afterwards... Oh those highschool days. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 8:18:16 PM | People should watch this
http://exodus.interoutemediaservices.com/?id=4010f7ed-9e16-460f-bce0-cce767b2d392&delivery=stream
just select it all and paste it into your browser window
Enjoy | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 8:43:04 PM | Regardless of the effects of marijuana, you can't argue either way based on the effects of something ADDED to it. That's like saying beef is bad because someone added a***nic to your steak!
Going back a few posts, it's interesting to note that in favor of marijuana as being beneficial is the argument that it has been beneficial to so many musicians. Noone else. Just musicians. So if you have some musical talent and want to be a musician, use weed. Now why are no other professions mentioned? No other artists [painters, writers] and their various drugs of choice? And how many musicians dead or jailed as a result of growing alcohol and drug abuse? It's not my intent to argue either way, just to point out the weakness of the argument.
Also, someone mentioned that marijuana smokers show no increased liklihood of cancer...
Compared to whom? Smokers, who generally smoke a lot more cigarettes than pot smokers smoke joints? Non-smokers? Since pot smokers probably smoke a lot less than cigarette smokers do, it's unlikely they would have enough of an increased risk to show statistically. Legalize marijuana, and it would be easy to prove the assumption wrong as people smoke more weed more often.
Now, AGAINST...I worked with several frequent pot smokers, and lived with one of them. Two were almost always under the influence. One was useless as a cook since his attention was never on the job. The other was a menace. Have you ever seen a 5 foot log in a 2 foot fireplace? Or perhaps the fire screen wide open with the claim there are no sparks and there's someone there. Immediately followed by swatting at a hot ember on the couch. THEN leaving the room and not returning...fire screen still wide open! This was not a stupid man. Knowing him, I can safely say he's quite smart [unlike the other]. But add marijuana and his brains were LONG gone. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 8:51:29 PM |
Also, someone mentioned that marijuana smokers show no increased liklihood of cancer...
Compared to whom?
Read the article the link is in the 2nd message.
Personally, I have no interest in marijuana, but I don't particularly care if other people do. There aren't enough people doing enough marijuana for it to affect me. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 9:01:50 PM | personally I think I should be doing some right now - what happened to the forums???  it hasn't been the same for the longest time.  | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 9:20:36 PM | | Okay - the comparison was among cancer patients. That means the essence of the results was "if you have xxx cancer, you got it from something other than marijuana" That doesn't really mean that marijuana doesn't cause cancer. It means that other causes are so much more prevalent that marijuana as a cause is statistically insignificant. They also define moderate to heavy users as 11000-22000 [total apparently] joints. How many cigarettes do smokers consume? Even only a half pack per day [I'm guessing 24 to a pack?] is 43800 in the space of 10 years. 6 a day is still 21900, 3 packs a day is 262800! Given the blue clouds at work, I'd guess that average is a pack a day, and many smoke a fair amount more. Most joints I've seen were much smaller than cigarettes. Does one joint equal one cigarette on average? I doubt it. If it's two to one, that makes 11000 joints roughly equal to 5500 cigarettes, in terms of consumption, which the study defined as the bottom limit of "moderately heavy". So...since cigarettes are such a numerically superior cancer cause, the odds of finding a marijuana-induced cancer are slim. Not because it doesn't happen, but because most cases are caused by much worse use of tobacco. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 9:33:42 PM | I'm surprised by your conclusion. These paragraphs from the article seem to say it all:
The heaviest smokers in the study had smoked more than 22,000 marijuana cigarettes, or joints, while moderately heavy smokers had smoked between 11,000 to 22,000 joints. Even these smokers did not have an increased risk of developing cancer. People who smoked more marijuana were not at any increased risk compared with those who smoked less marijuana or none at all.
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There was a clear association between smoking tobacco and cancer. The study found a 20-fold increased risk of lung cancer in people who smoked two or more packs of cigarettes a day. The more tobacco a person smoked, the greater the risk of developing both lung cancer and head and neck cancers, findings that were consistent with many previous studies.
The new findings are surprising for several reasons, Dr. Tashkin said. Previous studies have shown that marijuana tar contains about 50% higher concentrations of chemicals linked to lung cancer, compared with tobacco tar, he noted. Smoking a marijuana cigarette deposits four times more tar in the lungs than smoking an equivalent amount of tobacco. "Marijuana is packed more loosely than tobacco, so there's less filtration through the rod of the cigarette, so more particles will be inhaled," Dr. Tashkin said. "And marijuana smokers typically smoke differently than tobacco smokers--they hold their breath about four times longer, allowing more time for extra fine particles to deposit in the lung." | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 9:38:44 PM | My gf and I were watching that episode on Sex and the City where the girls smoke pot and Carrie gets arrested and we had an itch to do it ourselves since it had been years. We smoked up, ate a crap load of junk food, giggled for a few hours, watched some TV (we thought Futurama was THE BEST that night  ) and passed out. The next day we both felt incredibly stupid. Not for doing it...we actually felt dumb. I guess similar to how i feel after a heavy night drinking. I'm not against pot and i don't smoke it often, but i don't want to date a "pothead".
JMO | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 9:51:16 PM |
I believe it effects each individual differently... and just as there are some people who just should not touch alcohol.. equally said for pot ....but hey...what do I know
yup my ex is a prime example.
One thing I believe is that for some marijuana is a gateway drug. Some people(hopefully most) stop at pot, but many move on to bigger and better things. I have watched quite a few of my friends lives go down hill due to once being a pot head, but that wasn't enough, so they moved onto cocaine, esctacy, heroin, etc. Possibly it is certain types of people or people that are predisposed to addiction...not sure, but I know it happens and none of them started out on the hard drugs first.
My opinion on pot is that do it at your own discretion...it is no longer for me, but I see no problem with legalization of it. Alcohol can lead people down that same path and its legal. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 9:51:40 PM | OK, so what I wanna know is this. God gave us pot. It takes away all kinds of pain, will mellow out someone who is having a panic attack, help people deal with issues such as verbal abuse, and get america eating. However, there are very little side effects, and the high doesnt last long....especially if something happens, because your adrenaline will kill it.
Instead the government wants us to take medication that is not as effective such as torodol or codien, and they have tonnes of side effects. And which medicine is made from cocaine? I know one of the best pain killers that I have ever seen is Nubane...and it is made from....you guessed it....marijuana. Oh yeah, lets not forget that aids and cancer patients can have it for pain.
Which one is actually betterr for us....a natural ingredient, or a bunch of chemicals and poisons.
The only reason it is not legal is because the government doesnt know how to control it.
I am a proponent of the freedom of choice....regardless of wether you do drugs or not. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 10:00:51 PM | I believe that alcohol is the first step to drug addiction. And those that use the heavy drugs are not more likely to have started with pot than those that didnt. I know a lot of people who are or were pot users. Most never went any further, and a few started with cocain and to get off the cocain went to pot, and then quit.
And honestly, being a non-drinker, i have seen most people who drink get drunk and do stupid chit, or make fools of themselves and cant even walk the line.....but i have never seen anyone stoned on pot like that.
It doesnt bother me if someone does pot...i dont see a problem with the legalization of it. | |
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Doug.L
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Joined: 1/17/2005
Msg: 43 | |
| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 10:01:51 PM | | Shyla, all I'll say about what you're saying is it's all about personal choice's. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 10:15:24 PM | I know people that wake up and smoke a joint. The Wake and Bake theory. I am around it on a consistent basis, and refrain from it. I have tried it, but realized it is not something for me.
I have seen marijuana use in the industrial parks. I have seen marijuana use in white collar people. I have seen it in all walks of life. It is honestly a drug that probably does not have any class distinction.
And remember this. Bob Marley died of cancer. And I have a faint recollection that he did not smoke tobacco cigarrettes. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 10:23:05 PM | The trouble is, it DOESN'T say it all. They only studied 611 cancer patients, and tobacco was clearly associated with cancer. More cigarettes, more likely to have cancer [vs the control group of about 1000. There may be some merit to the suggestions as to why they didn't see as high a cancer rate as expected. I am simply suggesting that there is another reason: statistics. They refer to a 20-fold increased chance among smokers of 2 packs or more, which is roughly 200000 cigarettes in 10 years. They compare that to heavy marijuana use of 22000 joints, which are smaller in general, AND more loosely packed according to the authors. Even if you equalize [guesstimated numbers here, sorry, never measured a joint] as follows:
minimum for "heavy" marijuana use:22000
half the size of a cigarette, only 3/4 as packed, held in the lungs 4 times longer, 1.5x as toxic
equal to 49500 cigs
minimum for heavy tobacco use:
2 packsx24 eachx 365 days x 10 years
equal to 175200 cigs
That means smokers are still MUCH greater chance of cancer. If smoking is more common than joint smoking, and heavy smoking also more common, then the odds of finding someone afflicted is greater among smokers. It's just math. More smokers, more heavy smokers, and heavy smokers have MUCH higher carcinogen exposure. Random sampling of patients will, on average, find the majority to be due to the biggest cause. Of the remainder, only some are marijuana users, and only some of those "heavy". Even then, the equivalent exposure is only 1/3, on what is probably an exponential curve, so the detection rate will be extremely low.
Of course, the thing to do would be to read the actual paper and any relevant rebuttals, and test the actual numbers. If I were going to do that, I have plenty of papers on amphibian evolution to evaluate first :P In this case I'm just pointing out that, based on what little information is in that review, statistical error is likely sufficient to explain the unexpected results.
As for what's better - natural or chemicals, the answer is chemicals. A single chemical can be tested, measured and evaluated. We can know its effects and the amounts needed to cause those effects. Natural is still just chemicals. The difference is, it's a mix of chemicals, and the mix varies from one individual to another, one location to another. That's a big part of the allure of wine: even a clone, when planted in a new place can produce a distinctly different wine from its parent. "Natural" drugs are much riskier and more unpredictable because you never know exactly what you're consuming or how much or what combination. You can also argue that because God gave us toads and you can get a good buzz from licking certain ones, that you should. Bufodiene has some pleasant effects. Mind you, the massive amounts of serotonin in the toad skin will probably kill you. Serotonin, of course, is a vital brain neurotransmitter. In the "natural" setting though it's part of an uncontrolled mix in a deadly dosage. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 10:36:46 PM | Weed... like all drugs activates the dopamine recepters in the brain. Dopamine is the "pleasure neurotramsmitter"... the feel good chemical that is released in the brain... Drug use initally causes huge surges in dopamine.... however with prolonged used... it actually causes the body to restrict and eventually almost completely shut down dopamine production... So people will end up using just to feel normal rather than to get high... this happens with all drugs but some worse that other X and meth-ampthetimine are probably the worse is burning up dopamine for long periods... sometimes years... even after stopping... That is why many folks in recovery still feel bad for weeks-months after stopping drug use... their body is not producing or producing only very little dopamine...
Other neg effects include... hormone affects... particularly during the teen years... can effect your sterility and give you man tits... also very bad/harsh on the lungs....
So... not being a prude about it... but it is important to know even seemingly beign drugs like pot can have negative effects on the body
:banger
DK: | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 10:40:51 PM | | Fair enough (although it was actually 1212 cancer patients, 611 with lung cancer). Although, using your numbers, 175000 cigarettes == 20x increased risk, 22000 joints (equiv to 50000 cigs) == no increased risk. Not 10x increased, not 5x increased, but 0, at least according to this study. Now it is possible that the study was flawed, and given how surprising the result was I certainly wouldn't discount it. But if this study bears out, I can foresee all sorts of new investigation into medicinal uses of THC, especially as it relates to cancer treatment. | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/23/2006 10:41:54 PM | PS - there are actually many drugs derived from or related to cocaine. Cocaine [coca-ine, code-ine, caffe-ine - all alkaloids derived from specific plants] is a specific purified chemical. Procaine [MS-222] is a derivative which is used as a fish and amphibian anesthetic. Harmless to humans and very hard to OD poikilotherms with it. I believe Novacaine is also a derivative.
THC=Tetrahydrocannabeine - ie, a version of yet another plant-derived alkaloid | |
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| Marijuana....Friend of Foe?
Posted: 6/24/2006 2:09:58 PM | | I don't smoke it but I am not against it I think it's a personal choice I think pot is harmless and can be very benefical with health concerns I think the government should legalize it but have restrictions on it exactly the same as alcohol but hey just my opinion | |
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