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| Gentlemen can be BORING! Although, there is...
Posted: 6/26/2006 12:53:05 PM | You should've come to Kill from the start...I would've brought flowers, pulled out chairs, opened doors, kissed you, grabbed your ass, dropped you off, called you an hour later (if it wasnt too late) and promised you a better time the next date. Oh well.....
People are going to judge you no matter what. No one on this sight is perfect and every self righteous person here would do well to remember that. I hope you DO find what you're looking for.
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/26/2006 12:58:07 PM | | Is it not better for that then for him to grab and grope you, ignore your statements to stop and then you wind up assaulted ? If you are allowing that shit to happen on a first meeting, you are heading into serious trouble in the future little girl.........have some respect for yourself. You can bet your ass most guys you meet won't have it for you. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/26/2006 1:04:28 PM | I don't think he had just sex in mind. If that were the case, he would have just grabbed away.
Many times, women will let men paw away at them (and thoroughly enjoy it) in a moment of passion, then flip out about it later when they try to over-analyze what happened, as women are wont to do.
Result: next time the guy calls, thinking that you had something clicking (you must have for you to let him grope you on the first date), you attempt to assuage your own guilt feelings by freaking out and telling him that you don't want to see him again.
Next thing you know, you are on here posting threads about how all men are pigs, and he's posting threads about what a fickle nut case****teaser you are.
So cut the guy some slack, OK? I think he was just trying to make sure you were comfortable with what was happening because he wanted to see you again. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/26/2006 1:25:34 PM | | So you found a guy that was a little inexperenced with how to read you. Ladys don't give the guy the goods on the first date, respect goes out the window. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/26/2006 1:30:31 PM | | Not in my case buddy. I'll respect a woman more if she truly wanted to have sex with me on the first date. That means she's putting her cards on the table. Flattering as well. In my humble opinion. Besides she's not talking about having sex with the guy. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING! Although, there is...
Posted: 6/26/2006 1:35:56 PM | For a 19 year old guy, I think he was being very respectful and I'd take that as being sweet and not boring. Also, if he had touched my butt all of a sudden, he would have gotten a nice tight slap.But then if he asked, that would have been awkward too.But I'd say no anyway.Why would anyone think of touching a girl's butt on a first date though?????Anyway, I still think he was being respectful.
~*Flavia*~ | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING! Although, there is...
Posted: 6/26/2006 2:10:41 PM | Id actually like to question many posters in this thread..how did it come to an attack thread. It didnt take long for a couple posters to immediatly throw a label on the OP. (we hate it when we get labels thrown at us, so think about it)
From what i read: inexperience and politeness..something that many people arent used to seeing at all...Id rather read threads like this than a thread where a guy just takes it for granted that he is going to jump all over a woman.
Kudos to the date for being polite
Kudos to the OP for being honest about her opinion | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/26/2006 3:05:56 PM |
So you found a guy that was a little inexperenced with how to read you. Ladys don't give the guy the goods on the first date, respect goes out the window.
I take issue with that - respect goes out of the window if you carry yourself with no self-respect. Just because a woman "gives up the goods" on a first date, doesn't mean she warrants any less respect. If the chemistry is there, the chemistry is there - don't confuse that with just sleeping with a guy so you feel loved.
If you sleep with a woman on the first date and she carries herself with dignity and self resepct and treats you with respect, then the same goes the other way too...if she's got so little respect as to sleep with a guy that has no respect for her, that's a different kettle of fish. That shows a lack of self respect and of course, plays into the fact that the guy doesn't respect her, so he has even less respect for her.
I think the key here is carry yourself with dignity and respect, and treat your date with dignity and respect. But if the chemistry is there and you want to sleep with each other, then do it!
I'm tired of hearing these feminist views from "it's your decision, you make him wait!" all the way to "you're a slut if you give it up on the first date". If you're a feminist, maybe you should stop and look around, you wanted equality, you got it and I for one am pleased that you're treated as equals, but nobody is going to hand over the world to you and let you make all the rules. It wasn't me that oppressed women until 50 years ago, and I'm not going to pay dues for that. But that's another thread entirely. | |
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canali
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Joined: 4/11/2006
Msg: 34 | |
| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/26/2006 3:15:03 PM | Fiery Redhead85:
Poor dear...out with a guy lacking some assertiveness, eh?...and in the hands of a darling redhead, no less.
Tsh tsh tsh!
I'll be more than happy to re-introduce you to a proper run through of the proper blending of both romance and 'steamy windows' that your 'boy' blew for us guys.....
hey, just trying to be a nice guy and help
you reestablish your confidence, that's all...
Seriously, though: I wouldn't even ask had I been in that guy's position:
...if you've been skillful enough to
raise the heat on the pot, why do you need to get permission from the chef to sample
the soup? If no, then no it is...but if otherwise, bon appetite! | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/26/2006 3:18:17 PM | | well at least he had asked.. right fiery?.. wouldcha want some guy 2 just grab ya w/o asking or thinking twice???.. maybe u`ll appreciate this when ur older.. | |
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KolDad
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Joined: 1/17/2005
Msg: 36 | |
| Gentlemen can be BORING! Although, there is...
Posted: 6/26/2006 3:32:51 PM | | wow this thread is intense. and I never did get my date but the guy is 19 he is being a hornball and and a nice guy although asking to touch a butt right in the middle of a kiss is sorta odd but everyone has their thing. Next time don't answer him and grab his hand stick it on your butt and tell him to shut up and go with the flow. That should set the mood and then it is up to you to say stop. He was trying to be nice and you wanted him to shoosh so let him know next time. It is up to you to express your opinion too and if you want to be a future, which i doubt anyways and if there was and he is reading this he is probably scared to death now and i pity the next girl, so let him know the bounderies and he will be better i guarantee it. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 9:42:15 AM |
Ok, first off... Unless you are talking about 18 or 19 year olds then teenagers aren't of legal age of consent and that completely changes the situation.
If you are being coerced into doing something to keep your job then you should report it immediately. Not have sex with the guy and turn it into a much bigger deal. They guy may been in the wrong for trying but come on women, let's stop making excuses. You can ALWAYS say no and if saying no causes a threat to your family or your job then you need to report it to the appropriate authority.
Again, you’re speaking form lack of experience - with the situation and with living. Coercion at any age is wrong. There are many women who have low self-esteem, have been abused previously in relationships, who have been raped, etc. who cannot handle certain situations as others might be able to. It’s always easy to say what one would do in a situation, but until you’re actually in it, then you really don’t know what you might do. Sure, you can always say no - unless you’re scared, fearful of losing the job you need to support your 3 kids, have been abused in the past and have no self-esteem, etc. Don’t judge others by what you think you may do, and don’t presume to say what they should do. They’re not you.
And I think it is very ignorant (and I mean that in the dictionary definition of the word) of you to come right out and say that looking for a "bad boy" is stupid. You do not know what I like or how I handle things. Some girls have a personality which will work well with a bad boy and though the bad boy can appear to others to not care a woman still knows where his heart is. You are completely closed minded to these things.
IMO, looking for a bad boy is stupid…and I can speak form experience, lol. I can’t think why anyone would want someone who doesn’t call when they say they will, who doesn’t treat them with the consideration and respect that they’d show to a stranger, who plays hard to get, who makes condescending or rude comments to one - even in public, and who acts like they don’t care if they with you or not. What’s so great about that?!
Also, don't come at me and tell me that I do not respect myself for getting in a car or kissing. The guy lied about his age and I didn't know till it was toward the end of the date, so that wasn't my fault. Plus, I don't know how you date, but I didn't know it was trashy to take the same car. A guy has never picked you up for a date? And kissing on a first date... Come on now. Since when is kissing a crime. I'm going to at least give a guy a chance and if there are no sparks I'll let him know. But I'm not going to be a prude and cry about a kiss. For god's sakes woman have you never heard of a good night kiss. And hands wandering. OMG someone touched the hunk of fat connected to my backside. It's not like he was up my shirt or in my pants. And at the same time you contradict yourself. First you say it's ok for him to ask and then you say he was just pushing it. Sounds to me like you think its a gesture of respect but then don't all at the same time. Sounds to me like you need to stay on one side of the fence.
Now, those are excuses, lol. First off, to let someone one doesn’t know pick them up at home is extremely foolish; not only could this person turn out to be something totally different than what they said they were - and dangerous, if they’re a stalker, they now know where you live. As far as kissing on a first date, no, that’s not always wrong; but since you didn’t appear to particularly like this guy, why would you want to kiss him? As for me, I prefer my sparks to happen before I kiss someone as I don’t hold my affections cheaply; the person has to mean something to me before I do anything with them. Also, if you don’t find it ‘ungentlemanly’ for someone you don’t know to touch you anywhere near your backside, that’s your choice; it sure wouldn’t be mine…I don’t see his actions - even with asking - to be that ‘gentlemanly‘ (though at least asking first is a little better than just grabbing a stranger), but then it takes two, and he obviously knew you weren’t going to object.
I seem to say if the guy is after sex to begin with then he needs to stop being a pansy about it. And like others said, you should be able to read the signs. You don't have to ask to be a gentleman.
Correct, actions will tell if one is a gentleman…and this guy’s actions didn’t show that he was much of one.
OK as I see this has suddenly turned into me wanting to hump the guy while he keeps his mouth shut, thats not it at all. If it was all about that then we wouldn't have been on a date in the first place. We would have simply met under the cover of night without the formality. The point is... Whether it is appropriate or not, if you are gonna kiss me then just do it. Holding doors = nice. Pulling out chairs = nice. Flowers = nice. Asking to touch my butt = needy little perverted puppy. Got it?
Nope, don’t’ get it…if someone is going to be polite in other areas, then they’re probably going to be polite, at first, about any physical ones. Sounds to me like you just want some bad boy stranger to grab you, plant one on you while grabbing your butt, and think that’s exciting.
Dont take everyone elses opinions of you overly serious..Remember, they dont know you, where you come from etc. Different people handle situations completely different. Read some of the forums...geez theres tons of people still stuck in the 50s attitudewise
Id still be interested in seeing how this guy behaves after he's had more experience and I do believe he was being respectful, which is rare
As far as the comments on bad boys--plenty of self-pity threads about it....
Someone once said in these forums....you need to kiss a lot of frogs before you meet your own personal prince....whether that frog is boring, a complete gentleman, an ahole..whatever...to each their own
Good Luck sorting all the frogs out
PS: its nice to see someone who does live up to their user name FieryRedhead..lol
Funny how you think it’s a ‘50s attitude’ after saying different people handle things differently. No one said she was wrong, just that that’s now what *we* would do. And after all, she posted the question; haven’t you ever heard that if one doesn’t like the answers they get then they shouldn’t ask the question. | |
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Dru
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 38 | |
| Gentlemen can be BORING! Although, there is...
Posted: 6/27/2006 11:30:59 AM | See this is why I don't get physical on the first date. Being one of those "nice" guys, I don't want to take the chance that being a little playful and grabbing her butt will make her run thinking i'm a manwhore or something. But I don't want to sit there and ask, "can i touch your bum?" as I adjusted my pocket protector and thick black rimmed pop bottle glasses. So I stay away from physical interaction on the first date, maybe a hug, but nothing more. By the 3rd date, I'm gonna grab what I want if you haven't told me to stop. I'm gonna be spontaneous. This actually happens somewhere around the 2nd-3rd date depending on other things, like do i even like the person. But I need at least one date just to figure you out a bit so I know what is and what isn't acceptable.
If you have to ask a woman if you can kiss her, then wait until your comfortable enough, or you think you know her well enough that you don't have to ask. If she's gonna cut you off on the first date because you weren't all over her, then really thats her problem.
Basically what I'm saying is don't ask if you can kiss/touch whatever, just do it. If you don't feel comfortable doing that without asking, then wait until you do feel comfortable. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 12:00:39 PM | There is soooooo much I really would like to say to that ridiculous woman, but there really just is no point anymore. If you have a stick planted firmly up your rectum then there is nothing I can do about it...
But because you like to be cute... The problem is that you were contradictory, close minded, judgemental, and a bit to eager to see your own opinions on the screen. I don't argue with answers I don't agree with. I argue with uneducated people like you who think they are high and mighty because their tits sag more than mine and you have more wrinkles. Age doesn't always mean wisdom and quite frankly, I was raped and I could still say no to a man who threatened to take my job so what does it say about you that you can't... Probably the same thing it says about me that I wanted the boy to be a little more ballsy.
Looks like at two different ages we still have some learning to do. BOTH of us. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 12:17:40 PM | It should be pointed out that you (yes you, Fieryredhead) have been given the power to get this guy locked up or put on the sex offender registry whenever you want, just because you say so by our crackerjack legal system. So it's likley that he's a genuine nice guy who's not all that experienced but is aware enough and smart enough to be concerned about it. He just doesn't want to grab your ass and have you go running, especially if you're running to a phone to dial 911. His technique could use some improvement but he basically sounds like a nice guy who's horny yet respectful.
In other words, this is just another one of those "nice guys are boring" threads that reminds the rest of us just how bizzarre the human female mind can be...
"He actually cares if I want him to push my buttons and turn my knobs or not!- what is he some kinda psycho perv freak-boy?! Doesn't he know how to fool around? Is he insecure? OMFG what's wrong with this guy- doesn't he know he's supposed to just kiss me and grab my ass and feel me up and not ask me first? Doesn't he know that it's ok to do that- except for when I decide it isn't?! And that it's not ok for him to ask what I decide!!??? What a loser. And boring too... it's much mroe exciting when a guy's hand slips down my pants unexpectedly. But, like, as long as I was OK with him doing that, and he could tell even though I didn't tell him..." | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 12:22:33 PM | Redviking... LMAO... OK so women are a little complicated... lol.
Don't blame me though! I know what I want! I'll even tell you! Just don't ever ask! Big no no! | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 12:25:40 PM | Redhead is right. A two-year age difference at 21 is pretty significant (and he knew it too, because he lied about it). He's young and has no idea what to do, so he's doing annoyingly passive/submissive stuff. That's not being a gentleman, that's being a five-year-old (Mommy can I?) and five-year-olds are not really attractive dating partners.
The nice thing is that he's making these mistakes because he's young and inexperienced, so he doesn't have to be that way forever. You would have done him a huge favor if you'd kindly mentioned that always asking for permission sets up a VERY weird relationship and that if he's nervous about that kind of stuff he should just go slow and easy with women so they can put the brakes on when he starts to go near their boundaries (but he should stop asking permission for everything like he's just landed on the planet and never spoken to a woman before). That's just weird and annoying. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 1:11:41 PM | "that's being a five-year-old (Mommy can I?) and five-year-olds are not really attractive dating partners."
Funny thing is, I'd say the same about any woman who can't clearly communicate what she does or doesn't want. Heck I DO say that... often.
I agree that cosntantly asking permission is not ideal. BUt I'd also venture that it wouldn't kill women to be a little more straightforward and direct and really less on "subtle hints", "nonverbal vues" and "he should just know" types of thinking (this is in regards to pretty much everything- not just phsyical stuff- communication is part of maturity). I know that being persued and having a guy "just know" is romantic and all that... but there's also that "assuming makes an A$$ out of u and me" aspect. Especially early on, if you're at all serious I think talking is the only way. AFter a while, you can use the non-verbals more and more, once you know each other well enough to know what the non-verbals mean (OTOH you should still be talking about plenty of things too!).
My advice to 'redhead" would be, IF she likes the guy otherwise and wants to be "serious" in one degree or another, to start talking- tell the guy what you wnat, make the first moves, tell him how you feel and ask him how he feels, etc.- it may just be that some things need to be fleshed out and he needs to feel a bit "safer". | |
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KolDad
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Joined: 1/17/2005
Msg: 44 | |
| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 1:13:14 PM | | I am not quite sure why everyone is attacking redwhatever her name is, all she did was state she thought he was a little wierd for asking to touch her ass and yeah she made out in the car with him and let him pick her up but big deal, you people were never young? Hell I made out with so many people at that age my tongue should have fallen off or at least something else. Really people who cares if she did or didn't and if she likes to say he was too nice, in my opinion it is wierd to ask for permission for something as simple as an ass grab the worst you get is slapped then you don't do it but i am sure a pretty nice "no please don't" would have come before a slap. I have never heard of anyone getting charged with rape for a simple make out session going a little farther and i can understand her for not wanting to have to give permission for every little step in it. As for you my young seductress, you need to not date these kind or take them and teach them what is allowable and what is not. We all do it our first times with someone knew | |
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Dru
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 45 | |
| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 1:34:07 PM | Redhead, don't let these guys get you down. You are right in what you want. I know I hate it when I get asked if someone can do things for me all the time. If you want to do it so bad than just do it and quit asking permission. If it has to do with sex or intimacy, I'll let you know if it's okay or not.
If these guys would actually read and understand what your saying and not get stuck up on certain points that are indifferent to the topic, they would learn a lot about being the nice guy that finishes first. You can be the gentleman/nice guy/sweetheart, whatever you want to call it and keep things exciting and unpredictable. Show some balls, just don't walk up to her house naked. There is a fine line between being an a-hole and ballsy, redhead is trying to show guys that line.
Only thing I would have done if roles and genders were reversed, is I probably would have said you don't have to ask permission at some point, and I may have given her another date or two. But that's something you learn to do with age and experience. First impressions are not always true impressions. People get nervous and say/do things that are not consitent with there real character, learn to give a guy a few tries before sending him packing. He just needs to get comfortable with you and learn to relax around you, this is true of almost every nice guy or gentlemen you will meet. He might have been one of those guys that just has his way with you when the mood strikes whether you want it or not(in the good way, not talking rape).
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 1:53:54 PM | | Hey I wasn't really coming down on her- just pointing out that the women who only spend time with guys who alwaya "know just what to do" are ofetn the same women who end up writing the "why are all guys such sleaze..." posts....sometimes the quality people are the ones that don't already know "just what to do" in evry situation- I think this hold true for both men and women. There is a big difference between an insecure doormat with self-esteem and confidence issues, and someone who functions on an emotional and psychological level that allows room for some doubts and questioning instead of saying "shoot first, ask questions later". | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 3:06:48 PM | I mean, I guess it's ok to ask and what not but this completely turned me off to this guy. You can take some control can't you?
I guess he wasn't willing to risk a smacked face. Or worse.
In this age of women complaining about perverts or overly-aggressive men... false complaints or valid ones, matters not... what the hell... why do you expect a "gentleman" to risk taking "control" when he could get seriously nailed for doing so??
Unreal. Had he just done what he wanted, you'd probably complain about that, too.
Not to mention the fact that your post will now vindicate all the "women like A$$holes" threads. | |
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Dru
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 48 | |
| Gentlemen can be BORING!
Posted: 6/27/2006 3:21:53 PM | Well it is true that if you don't like someone, no matter what they do you'll find something not to like. Even if we were able to go back in time and run the scenario again the way she would have preferred, she still might not have like the guy.
My point, and I think Redheads too, is that there is no reason to be predictable or announce every advance and seek permission before doing it. You start off small, let your hands touch, if she immediately pulls away, then you know not to shove your tongue down her throat next. Most nice guys just need to stop worrying about upsetting the girl and thinking if they do one thing wrong she's gonna bolt. Woman, in general are not that picky(I know some are, but their dead inside anyways).
And as for the guy getting into trouble becuase the girl might yell rape if I make a move to kiss her?!?!?! This is insane, and so is the woman that would do that, and the authorities will see that. Unless the guy is overly aggressive and continues his advances after the girl has asked him to stop, your not going to go to jail, or even be arrested. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING! Although, there is...
Posted: 6/27/2006 6:56:51 PM | I've definitely dated men like this, but it hasn't happened in more than 10 years.
What I did: if I actually wanted to hold hands, I'd say yes, then if he asked me if he could touch my butt, I'd laugh a little and tell him nicely that he needn't ask everytime, I'd let him know when he was going too far. But that's me, I usually have no problems communicating how far I want a man to go. Heck, if the time was right I'd tell him to kiss me or just outright ask him "when ya gonna kiss me?"
There is nothing wrong with this behaviour, it is preferred over a lech that you are not interested in going ahead and touching your butt!!! Yes, it can become silly after a while, but I think it is a comfort level thing too. There are worse behaviours - like lying about your age, I hate that so he would not be grabbing my butt at all! lol. Redhead, I think that's the more important issue on why not to date him again. | |
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| Gentlemen can be BORING! Although, there is...
Posted: 6/27/2006 7:21:31 PM | When did being a "gentleman" equate to being naive, passive aggressive and awkward?
No this guy shouldn't just come out and grab someone's butt or ram his tongue down a woman's throat...but...
The guy just sounds very inexperienced and when someone is inexperienced like that they tend to behave in an idyllic and textbook fashion instead of using their instincts and being able to read signs from the other person confidently (to act upon). This has absolutely nothing to do with being polite and a gentleman. I hope the term gentleman and what it truly implies doesn’t get tainted.
It's just another one of those ways to sugar-coat what is meant…and label some dude who comes off "dorky"... (another example of this is the PC code term, "nice guy")
Many men who are -polite- and respectful do know how to take initiative, read signs & make a move without acting cheesy and adolescent thus being able to give the woman some impression of surprise and spontaneity (sex appeal and sensuality). That kind of smooth behavior will either come from experience, confidence or a mix of both…but not from being an A-hole or a jerk who practically rapes a woman on the first date…or being predictable and sexually awkward where you LITERALLY ask for everything that involves some intimacy (showing you have zero perception).
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