| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/2/2006 4:16:39 PM |
ht, you have made my point for me thank you for the 40 year old quote.
drtywhtboy, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The quote may be 40 years old, but it is still true. The first drink may be a choice, but after that the choice is lost.
HT | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/2/2006 9:33:39 PM | that's an interesting analogy you've offered up. A trapped fox is moved by instinct to survive when he chews off his leg to get out of a snare.
Do you think an addict would chew off his leg to get away from the snare of drugs/alcohol? or to get out of a snare so that he could GET drugs/alcohol?
I don't have any "issues" with addicts as much as I have issues with 12-step programs which coddle an addict or a drunk with the idea that they have no control over his or her own behavior. AA acknowledges its recovery rate is somewhere between 1 and 5 % for long-term sobriety. That is not "help." That is a pity party club where 95% of its members are people who have to pretend they want to quit will have a place to congregate until they don't have to pretend anymore. Any person alive who wants to quit drinking or doing drugs can. People do it all the time! If it's not a choice or decision to quit, explain what it is called when someone actually does quit for good?
Life is full of choices, each person having their own...many of them under extreme pressure. If you are involved with an addict or a drunk you are on a train track and your addict is the train bearing down on you. You have the choice to jump off and save your own life or stay and become part of the train wreck. that's the only choice YOU have. The addict is willing to make a train wreck out of anyone ready to let him.
I DO have compassion for the struggles and challenges addicts endure when they quit. My compassion goes out the window when an addict relapses, because relapsing is not quitting...it's the exact opposite of quitting. | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/2/2006 10:28:10 PM |
ellykay
I'm black I'm white I'm black I'm white what the he-- are you!Oh yhea another finger pointer.
AA pronounces a 7 % cure kinda scary isn't it breast cancer 34%...If only there was a surgery to help the addicted, the depressed, the schizophrenic, PSTD and Bi polar, personality disorders etc etc there would be a waiting list.
Grab a clue and get off your high horse...anyone of these could be you or your loved one.
Your just lucky...for now! | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/2/2006 10:31:11 PM | ellykay.
... I sure wouldn't want to be a friend of yours if I needed help.
I'm very familiar with the attitude you have and so are groups that try to help, like AA, and the thousands of other support goups, clinics etc.
Ask anyone who goes to group and they'll tell you, it's a place to go where you aren't judged and aren't thrown "out the window". | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/2/2006 10:38:17 PM | I dont feel sympathy fo u u got nerves though u a hypocrypt u wanted her to stop but instead u kept her drinkin wit u and drunk alcohol wit her why if u saw that it was crushin yo relationship then u jus reinforced her drinkin behavior how u sound i told her she was drinkin to heavy she slowed down then i shared booze too oh man please u used a excuse to get out of a problem u helped to create u knew she needed help how much did u love her to leave the monster u created she was a drinker and she had to stop compleatly not jus slow down the process u left her when she needed u the most but hey it was choices to be made and u made the right one with a person n need behind  | |
|
BB Man
|
Joined: 8/22/2005
Msg: 31 | |
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/2/2006 10:43:15 PM | Wow, you could have been my ex. The story is so very much like mine. Except we had three kids together and we split up eight years ago.
I wanted her back but I didn't stop drinking when she left. In fact I was then able to drink as much as I wanted. This was good. I drank myself so far into the gutter that I realized it was sober up or die. Seven years ago I sobered up. Not for my wife, not for my kids but for my own sanity.
My ex, who I still love dearly, did the best thing for all of us. I am now living a very positive life, have a great relationship with my kids and am even friends with my ex.
Don't look back. | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/2/2006 10:50:09 PM | Its Glaringly obvious that the originator of this thread has No clue about the "Disease" of addiction!!! But reuptake...... you can be helped...(saved) by getting to alanon! I guess you have allready been informed of that... but I will reiterate it here. I have 10 years in the program now! I love it. It saved my life... it gave me back myself! You need to 'recover' yourself.
I understand those of you who take exception (or offense) of the disease concept. I was one of you too. And...... whats this about AA not having much success?????? Boy what planet are you guys living on? Its true, more addicts stay out there and die than recover. But in the part that do recover.... almost ALL of them do it thru AA,.... all of our latest and greatest medical science can only 'jump start' recovery, at best..... its in the 12 step programs that the real work is done!
the cancer analogy is basically correct. However, addiction has another element to it that makes it especially destructive and painful to both the victim and the family... it is a spiritual disease too! Thats why it takes recovery programs to beat it. You MUST have the help of the Creator in doing battle with a spiritual illness. | |
|
BB Man
|
Joined: 8/22/2005
Msg: 33 | |
| |
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/2/2006 11:04:57 PM | Ahhhh, Miss ellykay:
why ya got such a bad attitude about something as wonderful as AA??? I just bet you likes ta drink a bit. Maybe even tie one on once in a while. You don't have to be a sick and stubborn alcoholic to have an attitude about AA. I know, I'm living proof. I used to think..' Oh those poor pathetic people who end up in something like AA"..... 'surely, they are the very bottom of the human barrell" Well, darned if the great spirit didn't go and just throw me right in amonst them when I reached a point in my life where I needed (and asked) for help!
Now... listening to recovering alcoholics is where I get a lot of my useful wisdom now. I love them. they are the "winners". I am a winner too. I am not an alcolholc, but I am recovering from the pathological family disease of alcoholism. Prob. the only part of the disease I didn't have was the compulsion to drink.
I don't know if your 8 percent success rate in AA is correct or not. I kind of doubt it... but, it makes no difference in assessing AA. Of the "Millions and Millions" of recovering addicts all over the world... pretty much every one of them has done it, and are doing it, thru 12 step programs!!!! Thats the reality of recovery programs. They are nothing short of a gift from the Creator. If ya want to play the (there are only two kinds of people in the world...game) I would say... it is 1. those in recovery and, 2. those who need to be. ha ha! | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/3/2006 12:14:10 AM | ellykay stated:
AA acknowledges its recovery rate is somewhere between 1 and 5 % for long-term sobriety. That is not "help." That is a pity party club where 95% of its members are people who have to pretend they want to quit will have a place to congregate until they don't have to pretend anymore.
Part of ellykay's statement here is true. AA's success rate for long term sobriety is not good at all. Horrible, actually. She mentions 1 to 5% I have heard that it is more like 7 or 8%...maybe the 1 to 5 number she mentions comes from years sober most AA's ever attain to. Most do not make it to their 1st year. It is my understanding that most of the numbers (excluding those with less than one year) of active AA members are in 1 to 5 years sober. After that the numbers decline drastically. Those with 10, 15, 20, 25, 30...years sober are rare. But they are out there. And likely do comprise 7 to 10% of the membership.
However, I have a problem with a couple things about ellykay's above mentioned quote:
pity party club
I sense some anger here and don't know why.
where 95% of its members are people who have to pretend they want to quit
It is my understanding that AA is a place to come for those who have a desire to quit.
Nobody --nobody normal that is, in my opinion wakes up one morning and says to themselves " hmmm...beautiful day today, think I'll just wander on down to that AA meeting down at the local Church..."
Also, think about the millions that come to AA and only stay for a couple months or six months. Just how many traffic fatalities during that 6 month period have been prevented because AT LEAST for that amount of time those great numbers of people have been sober and attending AA meetings instead of being on the freeways and roads causing traffic injuries and death? Not to mention drunken brawls, and abuse to family members, etc.
What if ONE person, say …that person who lives in YOUR neighborhood who, as fate WOULD HAVE it , been on the road drunk running a red light through an intersection one of your family members would have been, as fate would have it be traveling through at the same time, causing the death or injury of that loved one..? Instead, that person who might have been on the road that evening was 65 days sober and sitting in an AA meeting instead of causing the accident?
My understanding and logic would follow, that a person will come to AA because he/she has had something traumatic happen in their lives which cause them to have a desire to stop drinking.
I believe alcohol/drug addiction an external manifestation of a much deeper psychological problem, or a self medicating coping function of a treatable bio chemical imbalance….meaning the alcohol or drugs are a symptom of a greater problem. Without help for the underlying causes which compels one to drink or use excessively, the alcoholic or drug addict will eventually go back to what works –more alcohol /drugs.
It is my understanding of the 12 steps of AA being a process in which leads to the healing of those underlying root causes of their problem. For some, maybe most the AA principles and steps are not enough. Psychological help/Therapy. Psychiatry /Pharmaceutical Treatments are necessary.
If a person has any kind of substance abuse problem, and is going to AA and / or seeking other help we should definitely be an encouragement to them. Who give a rip what we call it. A disease? A defect? A sin? A personality disorder? A weakness? Who cares? At least he/she recognizes they have a problem and desires help, my hats off to them! | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/3/2006 10:51:33 AM |
I'm black I'm white I'm black I'm white what the he-- are you!Oh yhea another finger pointer.
AA pronounces a 7 % cure kinda scary isn't it breast cancer 34%...If only there was a surgery to help the addicted, the depressed, the schizophrenic, PSTD and Bi polar, personality disorders etc etc there would be a waiting list.
Grab a clue and get off your high horse...anyone of these could be you or your loved one.
Your just lucky...for now!
I wish I was as lucky as you think I am! I wonder why you assume I'm not qualified to have a strong opinion on addiction and rehab?
My addict took the liberty of wrecking our marriage, our daughter's world as she knew it, our retirement savings, our business, our credit, reputation, dignity, standing in the community...everything. I thought I was being supportive by carting him from rehab to rehab for all those years and by believing him when he pretended to want to quit. I honored my commitment to him. In the process I became more acquainted than I ever wanted to with the methodology and schools of thought around rehabilitating an addict.
If I had it all to do over again, I'd have booted him out 5 minutes after he told me he was using drugs. That's the advice I have for anyone who discovers that they have an addict in their life...regardless of what the addict tells you, it won't get better soon.....quickly put as much physical and mental distance between you and the addict as you can and reclaim your life. | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/3/2006 11:18:34 AM | Hey! Bud: My sympathies to You. I was in a 14yr on/off relationship which just recently ended. I am basically a rescuer type personality, and through that anchor, I thought if I just hung in there I would show her that I was her support for when she was ready to realize sobriety is the only answer. DIDN'T HAPPEN! It hurts to see someone (especially one who you exchanged "I Love You" with) to continue to keep abusing themselves. My significant other would drink all at once (like a junkie shoots up), and thats where she would leave my universe. The real bad part was the paranoia, that I couldn't handle. Let it go! RUN XARZY! RUN!
Like others have mentioned; unless the person is willing to heal their past wounds and come out of denial, we can't even throw them a line.  | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/3/2006 2:24:07 PM | I see that there has been a lot of quoting of statistics. My favorite statistic is "3/4 of all statistics are made up on the spot." So I did the thing that comes most logically to mind, and looked it up. The information can be easily found on the science direct website, if you are a student or professional it should be free. Or you can access it at your local college's library, which should be free too.
I found a recent article in the Journal of Drug and Alcohol Dependence called "Protective resources and long-term recovery from alcohol use disorders" by R.H. Moss & B. S. Moss, January 2006. Here is an excerpt:
"Consistent with earlier findings, participation in AA was associated with better medium and long-term alcohol-related outcomes. Comparable to the changes associated with community reinforcement and contingency management approach, involvement in AA provides an opportunity to participate in alcohol-free social activities with role models who reward abstinence and help enhance members’ personal and social resources. Importantly, key additional aspects of AA involve cohesion and monitoring and thus exemplify processes associated with social control theory. Our findings strengthen the conclusion that participation in AA can prospectively enhance long-term alcohol-related outcomes, but also that AA is only one, and not necessarily the strongest one, among diverse protective resources that maintain better alcohol and psychosocial outcomes."
The other "protective resources" the authors talk about are things like self confidence, coping skills, health, finances, and support from family, friends and work. BTW - high self confidence in the first year of recovery is the best predictor of 16 year succes, with AA second, and the rest helping too.
In layman's terms: You have got to want it. You have got to believe in yourself. And you need the help of others. It is not so clear cut as to AA works or AA doesn't work. There are always other factors to any person's individual recovery. Just like there are many definitions of "rock bottom" and "addict". | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/3/2006 5:21:49 PM | The day after I gave my notice and my lover and I were to move intogether next month, he comes over drunk and tells me he's an alcoholic. He promised he would quit because he did not want to lose me. I already loved him and seen the wonderful person he was underneath his pain and anxieties. When it was just me and him he could let that person come out without alcohol. Funny, he knew exactly how to love me. So I followed my heart and loved, supported, accepted and forgave him every time he slipped back. I tried to help him forgive himself for all mistakes he felt he ever made, forgive and understand all the people who ever hurt him, just come to terms with all his demons but he just could not find a way to love and forgive himself so in the end he sacrificed our relationship to save me and my son any more pain. Take a listen to 'Hate Me' the song by Blue October, played on the zone and you'll understand what he did for me. He may not have been completely aware of it but he knew he had to do it by himself and being with me was a constant reminder that he was not living up to his own expectations for himself.
I do still love him for the person he is supposed to be, that I know he will be one day, apart from me... | |
|
e/m/p
|
Joined: 6/1/2006
Msg: 40 | |
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/3/2006 5:54:48 PM | | " until we rethink the addictions and treat them as symptoms of some other problem." In any kind of addiction they are trying to numb themselves...something that is painful..wether it be something in their past or something in the here and now that they cannot handle...If you make the pretense that you will give this trauma up in your life to a "higher power" you are just trading one crutch for another..You are the higher power..What you do and how you live your life is only in your control..If you want to drown yourself in alcohol..that is your chioce..nobody elses...but ask yourself why..what is it I want to block out..As for the OP I think that you are a real oxymoron....I just want to party and have a good time..Drink with me baby..but behave...The arguements were caused by both of you imbibing...A real mixed message there sonny...Maybe she had just as much to drink as you did but did not handle herself the way you thought you did.... | |
|
| |
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/3/2006 11:17:38 PM | Lost the love of my life to alchohol........makes you feel so helpless
to stop the madness and move on befoe the inevitable comes to fruitation is a wise choice for some if you do it early enough
otherwise you must be prepared to be a caretaker for ever with every piece of your mind , body,soul & heart and life in shatters.......equally as hard to turn & walk away | |
|
| |
| |
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/4/2006 9:04:25 AM | I can relate to this situation quite well. I was w/ my son's father on/off for 6 years and he suffered from an alcohol addiction he did sober up for a few months yet relapsed due to emotional difficulties that he was unable to deal with. I have two points in my reply
1) Addictions are a disease, therefore you cannot blame the person for expericing relapses
2) The best way to help addicted ppl is to show them when sober what happens when they are intoxicated, explain the pros/cons of their addiction and support them as much as possible if/when they do choose to withdraw | |
|
| |
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/4/2006 9:47:44 AM | my ex boyfriend had been an alcoholic for the 3 years that I had known him
the reason we broke up was because of things that I was doing, and because he wanted to fix himself so that I wouldn't have to deal with it
just recently, he decided that since we had a long distance relationship, he wasn't able to quit
we had a huge fight and the day after, he went out drinking and got into a car accident and died
javascript:smilie(' ')
my thoughts are the same as yours, if they truly love you, they can do it
but it's definitely not easy and they need support
fighting about it will not get you anywhere, I know that much | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/6/2006 6:47:47 AM |
he wasn't able to quit we had a huge fight and the day after, he went out drinking and got into a car accident and died
I have had nightmares of this exact thing happening. My condolences to you and your loss. | |
|
| Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 7/24/2006 5:13:54 PM | | I wanted her to stop because she was pregnant. Alot of people were telling me oh let her drink a lil when your with her bcuz the labor process will be better, and its easier to keep her from going out of control when you go back home to the states, so when you come back u wont hear about any crazy stories. I broke up with her on that specific occasion because she had gotten drunk of some straight liquor which she did while i wasnt around her and then she ended up in a tantrum and scratched my face and bruised my right eye. | |
|
| |
Home
login 
