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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 9/2/2007 12:14:24 AM | Hello Pandora33,
Jehovah's Witnesses are a fundamentalist Christian religion whose adherents take most of the Bible literally. They are well versed in the Bible, even producing a Bible that reflects their use of Jehovah as God's name. Most are very involved in their faith, in fact, it would be truthful to say that their faith is their life. They attend five meetings a week, three conventions a year, and are requested that they go door to door to maintain an active "theocratic" status in the congregation that they attend. They are devout people that truly believe they are serving God according to their "Truth." Since, I personally support any path that helps someone connect to Source, i.e., the Higher Power, many times referred to God I will not pay disrespect to them. My personal belief system accepts gems from all faiths and yet I do not belong to a single one. I make my choices from my heart. So from my heart, I would strongly ask you to consider to keep this gentleman as a platonic friend. It has already been stated that JWs only marry JWs, and that is true. There are some that may marry non-believers, however, they are considered "weak" and "not good association." It is like walking around with a black mark. If you truly care for this person, you will allow him the space and freedom to make his own choice. If his family are practicing Jehovah's Witnesses he is already faced with immense pressure to not date outside of his faith. They have already been embarrassed that his way of life has resulted in him being put on "probation." He is walking a very thin line. If the elders find out that he is dating a non-JW, it could put him in the position of being "disfellowshipped" or excommunicated. He will be disowned by his family. His spiritual path is his own to choose, just as you have had the freedom to choose to be agnostic. Let him make the choice without interference from you. Also, he may be tempted into premarital sex with you, which the JWs consider to be a grave sin. He WILL be disfellowshipped for that. I know that if you care about him you will not want to cause him additional pain.
As far as the "property issue" - About twelve to fifteen years ago, the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society came up with legal contracts that people can sign if they wish to transfer their property to the JWs upon a member's death. The JWs operate by contributions or donations. Allowing people to bequeath their estates has helped their bottom line considerably.
I hope this helps you make the choice that will ultimately be for the highest good for you and for your JW friend. Releasing him would be the highest road.
For you: Decide what you want from a relationship. Get clear on what you want in a partner and know that you have the ability to attract someone that can understand your belief system and walk hand in hand with you as your create the life you desire. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 10/3/2007 6:56:47 AM | I consider myself a very religous person.I do believe that I can love God and do it at home.I was 21 when I married a Jehova's witness girl.I loved her then and love her now.I definatly was a hard ass about being my own person and didn't find it nessasary to join there religion as I had my own.
Our marriage didn't last long.But I'll tell you this.I have regretted everyday that I havn't been with her.She married a man in the religion.Are they happy.They might be as they have been married over 15 yrs.
I wish now that I hadn't been so hard because truly is it a bad thing to join the person you love.It's the same God we just have our interpretations to guide us.
So in Picton Ontario I met the love of my life.I let her go ...for what.
I think about her each and everyday.I believe I should have joined there faith and at least gave it an effort.
I'll never lose my faith but believe me people can make choices for the one they truly love,.
Pat | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/16/2008 4:04:25 PM | God makes the rules and they are all in the bible.....if people weren't so accusing of witnesses then ,maybe they should take time to see for themselves.
There are certain things god has commanded....not asked if we feel like it...but commanded that we must do in order to be saved by him..... Jesus commanded " go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit" Hence why jehovahs witnesses knock on doors...Mathew 28v19
To abstain from blood and from fornication "the holy spirit and we ourselves have favoured adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you " Acts 15 v 28,29 Maybe if people all over the world kept this command then there would be no Hepatitus,malaria,babesiosis,Lyme disease,toxoplasmosis and Bacterial Contamination of blood products. Sexually transmitted diseases such as Aids, ghonorrhoea , Syphillis , Herpes .....hence they will prosper !
The witnesses go from door to door not to bug people but they KNOW what is about to happen and are out trying to inform as many people as possible before it's too late ! If a neighbour knew a 18 wheeler truck was hurtling toward your house and didn't even try to warn you ....he would be viewed as wicked for knowing the danger and not warning you..... Thats all the witnesses are doing..... TRYING TO HELP YOU !
But people mock what they don't understand and so if you believe half of the rubbish that has been said about them on here then GOD is not going to look favourably when his day arrives which is any day now !
Maybe you should spare 5 mins and actually listen to what they have got to say eh !!!! | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/16/2008 4:51:35 PM | this has been one of the most interesting threads in this entire forum I have had the chance to read. There really are quite a few misguided views of Jehovah's witnesses and their faith. Several people have said it is more like a cult in that they live and breath their faith. But let me ask, does that make politics a cult?
I was born and raised as one of Jehovah's witnesses however, I made a mistake, or a choice a few years back and have been dissfelloshiped myself. Their views on life, society, love and marriage are very pure and clean. These people do not swear, do not kill, do not even get involved in anything criminal. But you want to hold that against them?
There are hundreds of religions out there and everyone has a different belief system, some people believe that God does not even exist, and they believe that they are right. This is what leads to so many wars and battles over the centuries. The amount os gossip here about the religion and their views from people who have not even taken the time out of their appearently overly busy lives to learn what it is they believe is usless information.
Witnesses do not "OWN" their people. They are like a great big family with a deeper love and respect for eachother then most people have for their biological mothers. Why would you want to hold that against them? It just doesn't make sense. The real issue here is what are the risks and worries about dating a Witness with out being one.
truth is, if he/she is solid in their faith, it will never get that far. If they are mildly active but talking about leaving, there are deeper issues that that may never talk to you about. Those kind of walls are harder to overcome. If they are "disfellowshipped" and say they want to go back, then the relationship has two courses. Either you can study the faith and chose to follow for him/her, or it will end and there may be heartache. If he/she says that they used to be a witness and say with certain conviction they are NEVER going back then the relationship may have a chance.
Someone said on here that the morals and values of a witness are generally higher then most. This is true. This person would probably make a stronger and more faithful mate. They are raised in a different fashion then most. They are raised to respect their elders, respect their brothers and sisters, or peers, and raised to respect authority. That men and women are equal in abilities and intelligence and generally make a much better mate overall. But someone else also said that the ingrained religous beliefs are always there. There will always be that "something" missing, so like any relationship, there will be hurdles to overcome.
Bottom line, there are more then several users in this thread that need to do a little more research. If you do not know anything about the faith, then you have no right to bash it. Do not listen to the hype, find ouyt the facts. Jehovah's Witnesses are by no means evil, nor are they a cult. Just different from you..... Does that justify bashing them? No. | |
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Joined: 9/29/2007
Msg: 130 | |
| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/16/2008 4:55:00 PM | | Nope, i would never date a JW. hell, i usually won't be friends with them. oh yes im an awful person. my cousins were all raised JW two of them stayed with it ..two of them moved out very young to get away from the religion, they will be the first to tell me its nothing more than a cult. i don't associate with people in cults expecially people whose beliefs scare me, end of story. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/16/2008 7:25:48 PM | Listen to those on the forum that were former Jehovah's Witnesses. Most of what they say is true. Alot of the other posters sound like they are going on pure gossip and it is hogwash. By the sounds of things your friend has been disfellowshipped. If he decides to go back to the faith he will be discouraged from dating you. There have been relationships between believers and non-believers as stated but they usually have alot of conflict. My Mom was a Jehovah's Witness and my Dad wasn't. They fought over their difference in beliefs quite a bit. Honestly, it was hell growing up. I was raised in the faith but after being in and out of it my whole life, I decided to stay out. I would advise you not to date this fellow as I only see heartache for yourself down the road. If you have any more questions feel free to message me privately.
Kindredspirit | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/16/2008 8:30:59 PM | I agree with You. as my Mom is a JW too- so I am here to give you all first hand knowledge of JW's and educate you from lies and gossip you have been mis-lead with..
Firstly JW's are the most peaceable people of the world , they do not support or go to war, or take anyones property, they go door to door, because firstly Jesus started this way of spreading the good news of the kingdom by sending his disciples out in 2's and coming back to report..and Mathew 24:14 states that everyone needs to be witnessed to and then the end will come.
JW's are christians and follow christ closely, they believe in the prayer Jesus taught The Our father and they pray for the kingdom to come and give all glory to Jesus' heavenly father Jehovah. They are out making disciples of the world as Jesus told his followers to do this, and that he would be with them to the end of the system of things..as you see we have not reached the conclusion yet so it still goes on today. CNN reported JW''s as the fastest growing religion today and NO they are not a cult.. that is a foolish myth and unture..I know it is very hard to be a JW and very easy to not be.
A cult would be the other way around. easy to join hard to leave.. also cults you cannot find them...
Kingdom halls are everywhere..and I know where my mom is all the time..
This guy is probably disfellowshipped, which means he must have been sexually immoral and was not repentive- because other then that or maybe being a heavy drug user or a murderer, that can really be the only cause for being DF. The elders do not just kick them to the curb they do work with them in a loving fashion and try to save everyone of Jesus little sheep... You see JW's follow bible council closely and God does not like fornicators/murderers, drunkards etv.. They believe they must keep God organization as clean as possible,. if a person has gravley sinned and keeps on doing it and not repentive, then they have to be removed so not to tarnish other memebers. No different if you have a child that is coming home all hours of the night disrupting the household- how long would you tolerate them coming home at 2 am with all their friends having sex all over your living room before you ask them to clean up their act or move out.. same principal, God tolerates it for so long until you might be asked to leave.. .Look at it as a grounding. They are always welcome to repent and return..almost like if you ground a child -you do not want the other children playing with the one that is being disciplined because they are being grounded. The bible does say do not become unevenly Yoked- because this way 2 married people of the same faith if they are having problems they are more apt to use the bible to help them through tough times. if one isn't using the bible council it makes it harder and many who did become unevenly yoked had their hearts broken when the spouse who was not following bible council commited fornication.. it is not to say they are not also imperfect and can slip up too but they use the bible as a way of living a good clean healthy life. I admire that. They do not do drugs or smoke or become drunkards etc. It is not to say we all might not have met or know one who does not fall in the category of being not a true JW, but Jesus did say there would be wolves in sheep clothing..but in time God will remove them from his organization ..as like I earlier mentioned, they believe you must keep Gods church as clean as possible. And why not.. it is God we are speaking of and he is holy.
as for birthdays christmans etc. they do not celebrate any of these as I have come to know and research myself they all are pagan customs. JW's do not tarnish their life with pagan customs as they beleive if it does not originate with God, then it originates with satan. And do you think God wants satans smut in his house of worship.. They do not sing any national anthem as that is patriotic which stands for war. and they can marry outside their faith, however it is bible council to avoid it. If you were to marry this guy and he decided to go back to his faith. you may find he might be very loving as JW's are taught as husbands by the bible to love their wives like their own body. that is not so bad. Many men today are very self-centered (not all) . and likewise wives are taught to respectt their husbands , and for the most part it is hard for woman to respect men at times..they go to 5 meetings a week and learn about the bible , they have fellowship with each other and are taught as a world wide organization together the same material each week.so they can teach the world God's message of what hope there is for mankind. I am not here to debate with anyone but to share what I know of the JW faith ..if you have any questions I would be happy to share and enlighten. They truly are very loving wonderful peacable people . and quite frankly I beleive of all the faiths on the planet that if everyone was a JW we would have more love -
no wars ,no racism , better marriages and family unity.. and that is not such a bad thing..
because at then end of the day that is what we all want.. so don't knock them..Also if they come to your door it is becasue john 6:44 Jesus states no man comes to me unless the father draws him to me, so how can you come to christ if his father does not come and individually personally invite you. .. Read John 3:16 in order not to be destroyed /perish- you must excersie faith in Christ and they all do to the best they can. it does not make them perfect. Just people who try to be Christ like....and that means YES they are Christians..,ask them next time they come to your door,. Are you here because Jesus's father Jehovah sent you so I can be a follower of his son Jesus Christ
and they will say YES!! | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/18/2008 7:17:21 PM | | If he is into you, he will try to convert you. If he is not into you, he will try to convert you. If you don't want to be converted, or even put up with the attempts, dump him now. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/18/2008 7:23:00 PM | Isaiah 43:11 says there is one Lord...Jehovah. 1Peter 1:11 calls Jesus Lord, and Savior.
If there is only one Lord, and that Lord is Jehovah, and Jesus is Lord, then...
Jesus is Jehovah.
However, Jehovah's Witnesses-more correctly called Watchtower Witnesses-believe that Jesus is NOT Jehovah...even when their own version of the Bible says He is.
Such willfully blind people are not worth associating with. They want you to follow their Bible, when they will not even do so themselves. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 2:29:14 PM | LORD and Lord are two different terms, and if you read those texts correctly, and understand the differences you will see that LORD in all capitals is refffering to God Almighty, who's name is known as Jehovah. And Lord not in all caps is reffering to a ruler or a King, and the books of Daniel, Ezekiela and Revelation announce and introduce Jesus as the King who will be set to rule God's kingdom.
Part of the problem with what you are trying to say is the info is not complete. First off, Jehovah's witnesses do not have their own version of the bible, they use what you use. They prefer the New World Translation only because it is written in modern englinsh and easier to understand. But if God's name was not meant to be in the bible and they put it there, then perhaps you should grab any other bible and read the forward. In the beggining of the book there is a letter to the reader that expresses that since God's name was sacred and meant to be revered, then in an effort not to displease Him and to keep the name unused, they replaced it with the term LORD in all caps. Read it, it sayd it right there. However, no matter what bible you pick up, look up Psalms 83:18. No matter the translation, it will read that "You whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the most high over all the earth."
So, Corindan, and all others, before you begin to speak ill of the witnesses or even God himself, be sure to do your research and know what you are talking about. God Almighty is Jehovah, and his son, the King of his established kingdom is Jesus. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 5:31:10 PM | Pandora
I've dated a Jehovah's Witness before. I have nothing bad to say about their faith. I personally think that they're misunderstood by many people and that's unfortunate. In a society where we're supposed to value differences, you say "Jehovah's Witness" and it's like a license to kill. When we started dating, I had friends and family say the most incredibly ignorant things about him to me in hopes of breaking us up.
What I did was research his faith as well as ask him questions about it. It was confusing at first--the differences are great and asking questions is key-but I kept at it. I also read some of the texts he gave me as well. It was an eye-opening experience. Yes, there were things that I didn't agree with and we'd discuss them when I asked about it.
What did break us up was his refusal to be open to my faith. He had no problem with me being open to his, but he flat out refused to even think of mine. That hurt a lot. He also wanted to, or so it seemed, date me secretly. Since I wasn't of his faith, he knew that if it were found out he was dating someone who wasn't a believer AND having sex with me--COMPLETELY against their teachings--he would be disfellowshipped. I felt that was hypocritical and selfish of him. He also said some very hurtful things about my faith that caused me to question him in general (hurtful as in he would have rather died than walk inside of my church...). In the end, he apologized and I accepted because we're all human. But I thought it best that we go our separate ways.
Would I do it again? Probably not. I understand and respect others' faith enough that if I'm not willing to become a complete part of what he believes in, then I need not be a small part at all. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:02:13 PM | Bottom line, The JW's are taught that this is the only way to heaven - - - if you are not with them you are doomed to hell.
They believe that the leaders are in contact with God and Jesus, and God and Jesus is guiding them by providing tidbits of information over time.
This religion was started in about 1890 by a salesman looking for a why to make big money. He purchased a book publishing company and then took aspects from other religions - - Not main stream ones. - - - got the members to buy his publications - - and sell or give them away. - - - note even today the members have to purchase the publications they give away. What other church requires its members to do this.
He even wrote and published a series of books called Studies in Structure - - 7 volumes.
Their concept is we are too dumb to understand what the bible says as it is in code.
And that God by use of Spirits is giving guidance and direction in the form of tidbits for us to come to understand what the bible says - - - - as we mortals can not understand what we read.
Volume 7 is hidden from members as it is too far out - - wrote by the founder after he did. that is right - - - and also has the founder saying that he is the 7the angel mentioned in the bible. - - - -
Basically it is a cult, you are brain washed - - - this is the only way -- if you question or ask too many questions or read aspects you should not read - - (parts of the bible that do not agree with them ) or listen to others - - - - they will kick you out saying a bunch of lies about you - - drugs. hooker etc. - - even your own family can not talk to you - - the members are afraid of this - - - lost of salvation and family contact - - even with your own kids. - - - - You are taught that JW's are on the only decent people in the world - - not to trust any other. - -
and worst the more that you question or get in an argument with them you are proving to them that they are in the last days - - - as the bible says that the world will be against the true believers - - - - - - So it is a non-win-able battle. - - - -
Needless to say, I know more about their religion than they do, for if they knew what I know about them they would not be members. - - - -
They like to brag that we are a large group - - millions and we can not all be wrong - - ah - -
They like to brag that they have the answers but in reality they do not - - they say just wait.
But reality is sure a lot join each year - - but also a lot drop out - - - and they do this by trying to fade away - - - hard - - - as the Elders watch over the flock closely and have to provide production type of reports to the higher ups. - - - hours going door to door etc. Membership - - - - easiest way to get out is to move to a new area - - - in an other churches area and simply not start up - - - - That way you do not get the banning that can happen if you simply try to drop out - - - because of are tired of the JW's or have started to question them.
Also the JW's teach or preach that Jesus is with them in secret chambers in New York.
To me - - - why would a person that can travel the universe simple decide to sit hidden away in a secret chamber - - - un-seen by even the members - - - - - why?
The bible says, When Jesus returns it will be like the lightening flashing from the east to the west. - - - I take that to mean - - - Jesus will be seen and known that he is back - - - The JW's try to modify this to mean - - To the true believers - - the faithful - he will be seen - - to others - - he will not be seen - - - - -
and say that this interpretation - - is what God has given to the leaders - - and who are you to argue with the leaders - - - -
if you can follow this and take what they say - - you have passed the dumb test - - -
as they point out to you in verses before this that Jesus is giving a warning - - - There will be stories of my being in Secret Caves or Chambers - - - do not fear for when I return - - (the above statement) - - to me this means - - you will know when Jesus comes back - - he will be known and seen - - - - and no religion is or should be able to say that he is simply sitting in a secret place - - - for months or years of time - - - - Why would Jesus do that? WHY?
and after passing the dumb test - - they will take you as a member - - if you can not follow their logic in this - - - you are not dumb enough (or qualified as they like to say)
My comment - - is run, do your research - - - most churches have material to help you with this. I did my research - - found sources, purchased books read them - -understood them - - - (before the days of the internet)
JW's are a very controlling cult - - -
Run
Jim P. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:30:16 PM | I have talked to a paster about the JW's concept of the taking of blood. - - -
This paster was a teacher of accent Greece etc. - - -
The not taking of blood refers to the drinking of blood from the animals. Note no - way of persevering food - - so they would take their time killing a goat - - - slice off a chunk, cook it, drink the blood that runs out - - - next meal, cut some more off - - - The goat would take a couple of days to die. It was this blood letting that the bible talks about - - - and the problems of drinking blood of animals - - - (note they would not be eating their most healthy animals that can still breed, but the more weak and lame. )
not what they are trying to make of it today.
and by the way - - I spend more than 5 minutes learning about the JW's - - - what they say on the surface looks good - -
Somethings that they do not like to remember is - - Do not celebrate Valentines, or your anniversary as this puts you before God. - - - This caused problems in their marriages so they had to change this rule - - - and want to hide the fact that they ever said this.
I have seen JW writings from the 50's and 60's where they say - - do not spend time playing chess or in sports as this detracts from your work. Do not get married as this detracts from your work, If you have to get married to not have kids as they detract from the work - - - - yes they said all of this - - - -
and you have say - - take time to hear what they have to say - - - I have - - I have talked and asked questions to elders - - - listened as he tried to explain away verse after verse and things written in their own publications. - - - - Clearly what he said did not match with what was written - - - it was as bad as saying the sky is yellow - - not blue - - and expecting you to believe if you want your salvation - - and only we can provide that - - - Finally I had him read paragraph in one of the JW publications that referred to some old testament verses - - in these verses, people are asking people that are saying things in God's name but are not with God. - - - - Scammers etc. - - - GOD says, "Do not worry about those, that say words that are not from me or commanded by me, for I will deal with them in my time and place in my own way" Ouch - - that I do not want to have to deal with - - - - I had the elder read this to me and continued on. - - He suddenly realized what he was doing and what I had done to him - - - And exploded - - - You see he know what he was doing in the name of the JW's and it was not the word of GOD for each bible verse that we discussed he tried to say it say something different that what it clearly said. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:42:13 PM | I have meet people that simply found some aspect of their beliefs that they went to elders and asked them about it. - - - questions about this or that in the bible that is not covered by the JW lesions or readings - - - -
She was DF's, so fast - - - A special meeting was called. - - - The Elder was up there saying she was a hooker, drug dealer and the list went on and on, She lost all connection with her family, - - kids and grand kids, friends - - - Friends would see her walking down the street and cross to the other side - - - - all for asking some questions - - -
All to keep others from finding out what she read in the bible, and what her questions were.
The questions were never answered - - - - - - - This is all that is needed to be DF'ed
Question your faith - - ask a few questions - - - - and others are not allowed to speak to you to find out what really happened. - - - - for you are now with the devil and have no means to be able to say - - hey, what happened - - you are out - - - - the next day. I have talked with those that this happened to - - - -
note DF'ing was not done - - - till one of the top top leaders took a wife, at that time it was stated do not marry and get a higher position. One of the followers - - loyal 40 year follower back at head quarters - - that did not marry and put his whole life for the JW's - - total commitment - - when - - what? - - why this change? and questioned it - - He was DF's the first that was - - - - this started this policy. - - - - is this true belief. - - - - is this what GOD wants or is it twisting his words for what a human wants - - - hum
Jim P. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:53:09 PM | Yips
More hog wash - - - -
I never allowed my kids to behave as you are saying all others that are not JW's do - - -
I have seen this blindness to many times in religion - - just not JW's. I have seen this blindness in many aspects of life - - - -
We are better - - - because - - - So there for I must be a sinner as I do not do as you do - yet you do not know me - - -
What I do not like is a religion to teach us to not think for ourselves - - - to simply be sheep and follow the teachings of man, That is right - - GOD is not talking to the JW's leaders, as the JW's like to have the flock believe - - - this is a new tidbit from GOD, some more en-lighting - - - - that has been hidden as the bible was not written so that any mortal man can understand it, we must have the elders - - on the main board - - translate the bible for us - - as we are not intelligent enough to understand what the guiding principles of the bible are. Who are the leaders - - - are they truly men of GOD? or effected by the devil - - - - -
In the bible, Jesus says time and time again - - - come to me - - directly to me - - - you do not need anyone between you and me - - - - yet the JW's have this ruling board - - that they put between you and Jesus.
Now if the devil wants a lot of souls, - - - - as you believe - - - all he has to do is tempted or divert the ruling board and he gets how many millions - - - correct - - - so has the ruling board been diverted or tempted. They are making one big mistake from the bible,
Jesus says - - come directly to me - you need no other person between us - - you can come directly to me and have a personal relationship with me - - - - in effect saying - - there should be no all mighty ruling board between you and Jesus.
enough said.
Jim P. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:01:10 PM | The JW's did produce their own bible - - true - - -
they tried to hire experts to say it was a good version - - - all refused
One columnist said bad things about the JW bible and was sued by the JW's
In the making of the bible, the JW's refused to say how were their experts that translated the bible. as no experts were really involved. - - -
The JW leader at that time, was on the stand defending the JW bible, and was saying that
it was with GOD's direction and guidance - and that he could translate and worked on it and verified what was in the bible.
He was then asked to translate a verse from accent Hebrew - - - he could not - he had no clue to what it said or was - - -
this was after he said he knew accent Greece and Hebrew - - - - -
The verse he was asked to translate was - - - " in the beginning - - -
The very first verse in the bible - - - he could not even do that - - - -
Needless to say - - the JW's version of the bible was found to be a very bad translation, one of the worst ever done - - -
The JW's simply did a compilation of other translations - - with modifications to back what they wanted the bible to say. - - it is that bad. No skilled people were involved, no knowledgeable people in this field were involved. - - -
Of course the JW printing press sold lots of these and made lots of money doing this - - -
each member must have a JW version - - - correct. - - --
Jim P. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:19:16 PM | Sorry "apostate." does not mean what you said.
I was told by elders in JW that it means - - - Their own material put together in a way that makes the JW's look bad. - - - -
This includes many things that they do not want current members to know
It has been a while - - but I think it was Oct 8th 1968 publication of the watchtower that said - - we now have all of the facts, all of the information (on the cover) to know when the End is .
This caused a large increase in membership - - - and more publications say what to do to prepare for the end - - in some of the follow on Watchtowers - - - do not get married - - devote your life to God's work. The Watchtowers in others said, sell your house and assets and donate them to JW to help in our work. - - - -
In the 6 months before the end of times, the Watchtower changed their tone - - started implying that maybe we do not have all of the facts - - - -
and those that screamed about what happen - - - the lost of house, home, life - - were told too bad, we warned you in the last few months and if you did not take this to heart is is your problem.
For several years, they said - - - the end is coming on this date - - - we know for sure - - time to prepare for the best position - - - and them just before go - - - oops
Note in the bible - - Jesus says over and over again - - do not ask me, I have not been let in on the time, you will hear stories of famine, earthquakes etc etc - - but I do not know of the time, do not ask me for I do not know - - - - so how can the JW's know, Many so called religions have stated that they know - - - based upon this or that information - - - twisting bible facts and dates to think that they know - - - JW's simply did this same thing - - -
And JW's are in contact with Jesus as he is in secret chambers in Bethel with them - - and has been for years - - - - - - - Sorry I simply do not buy this
Jim P. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:24:46 PM | Really funny, they respect and celebrate his death but not his birth
Something to do with they think it was really in Oct that he was born.
now the calender was all screwed up back then, Did not know about the need for leap year
So they would add or drop a day to try to keep the seasons the same - - - The problem is that
we do not have records to say when a day was added or dropped - - - So no one really knows.
To me the devil would worship, the death, while not the birth. - - - just a man's comment.
Hum
Yet, I have seen old watchtowers from the early 1900's that comment about their founder sending nice Christmas cards to thousands of people. - - - hum - - now it not allowed - - - why? God's enlightenment? as they like to call it. - - - or what - - - has the devil taken over the ruling board. We all know how total power can be corrupted - - - - and the ruling board has total power - - - -
Jim P. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:32:25 PM | You know James you seem to be an expert here... interesting since over 50% of what you have posted here is not true. Seriously if you or anyone is going to state things like facts, get them straight! Do the research. READ... talk to someone who knows. It is because of people like you who feel they need to force their opinion and state it as fact that cause problems. You were close on a few things, but as a general rule, comming from someone who was raised in the faith, dont attack or criticise what you do not know. This thread was not meant to be a religous debate that you have obviously felt it is, it was meant for the OP to get a feel for if her interest in this particular guy was going to lead anywhere. You have been very vocal tonight, but your views are skewed and you need some more info under your belt before you can claim what you claim.
And for anyone else who has actually taken the time to read this thread all the way through. Over 80% of what is stated here is extremely misleading and far from truth. The real truth is, if you are curious about the religion, or any religion or view, do your own research. do not trust people for the answers. And if you want to have a serious inter-faith relationship with a Witness, be warned, it will almost never end in a happy ending.... | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 1:34:49 AM | I did the research, I checked out what you have not checked out - - my second wife was in it and I found it wanting and started doing research - - - -
If you checked this out for yourself - - - you would be shocked at what they are doing and and have done - - - -
as in all there is good, and good concepts.
For some this is what they need - - - but they should know what it really is and is about.
I have read the Studies in Scriptures, I had a copy of the 7th volume that has been destroyed as much as possible as says a lot that they do not want - - - it is really strange - - off the deep end. - - - the founder is the 7th angel and he though of them self this way while shortly afterward are trying to say that he never did that - - -
The statements about the JW bible are correct - - -
Paster Russell, I think was his name - - tried to sue a reporters or something for slander over his studies in Scriptures. Pastor Russell, too offense and sued the reporter, Saying that he translated the original scriptures from accent text. - - - Russell was asked to show what were a few of the characters in the Greek alphabet - - - he failed totally - - Not even the first one - - Alpha or the last one Omega. - - - while trying to say that he translated from accent Greece. - - - - - - it was that bad. - - - later Pastor Russell said that spirits came to him in his dreams and guided him.
all that I have stated is true - - - - I have seen the original watchtowers that I referenced. I have read their books. I have looked at what they have said. - - -
I am intelligent enough of a person to realize that I do not need some higher up body of people on this earth to try to translate the bible for me - - - To be an interface between me and Jesus, - - - while in the bible is says over and over - - - Jesus is saying "come directly to me" " you do not need anyone to show you the way" and yet here is the ruling body of JW saying you must have us between you and GOD/Jesus as you are not intelligent enough to understand what the bible says - - - that it was written in code thousands of years ago for us to help decode today - - - - - ah does this reall make sense - - - To me it does not - - - - -
In talking to a pastor that is also a professor of accent Greece and Hebrew, teaches this stuff. - - - - we discussed that words have many meanings and the words - - the meanings of the words change and we have to reflect upon the times and situation. - - - and in this it is easy to take the words out of context - - just like the JW's do with the taking of blood, Totally out of context - - - -
Did you ever watch the TV show, Spin City. How they can put a spin on anything - - - a lot of that is happening in the JW's - - - - when the end did not come in the early 70's as predicted in '68 saying we now have all of the information that we need. - - - - We know, we are positive - - we are sure - - we have been enlightened - - - Jesus and God have informed us - - - how they spun this away - - - and the followers for the most part simply followed along - - - OK - - - and did not stop and go - - hey - what just happened. - - -
I am intelligent enough to read the bible and understand it - - I am able to form my own relationship with GOD and Jesus that does not depend upon any mortal humans that we have to trust have our interest first - - not theirs - - - - we all know power corrupts, We have seen many so called Ministers - - lead away from the path - - - how can we be sure about the ruling body of the JW. There is no check and balance in place. - - - yet they keep claiming that we can not read the bible and understand it - - yet the founder could not even name a couple of characters in the Accent Greek alphabet and yet claims that he translated it and decoded the mystery in the bible - - while not even knowing what the alphabet is, And can we trust the JW version of the bible when all experts say it is not even a good translation and when it is found out - - that none of the people that worked on it had any expert experience, and could not read or translate any accent Greek or Hebrew. Not even the very first verse in the bible - - - - and we are to trust their version of the bible - - - - that has been modified to support their concept - - - are we to trust these people - - - - - -
The bible talks in old testament about having to watch out for false profits and false leaders - - - we see them all the time - - - The big news on right now is Jesse Jackson - - so called minister - - - We have had Baker, Falwell and others in recent times - - - and over the centuries - - many have started and many have failed - - some have carried forward - - - - and lasted - - - but are they real - - really driven and following the word of GOD,
The simple aspect of they are saying you have to come to us to show you your way to salvation - - - while the bible has Jesus saying over and over again - - Come Directly to me. You do not need anyone to show you the way etc.
That Jesus warns us more than once - - - that people will be trying to claim that I am hiding in secret caverns or chambers - - - do not believe them for when I come it will be like the lighting flashing from the east to the west - - - - I take this to be - - when He come back - - it will be known - - - what in accent times was more noticeable than this type of lighting - - - Yet I have had JW's tell me that Jesus is with them - - but when pushed realize this can not be true and back off - - - - trying to believe what they are being told - - trying to have faith that this is right and true - - - -
JW's like many religions try to say they are the only way to salvation - - - and the JW's do a better job than most - - - -
So being DF means more to them - - - for here we have the ruling body - - - backed by GOD kicking you out and taking your salvation - - - - I have seen what this can do to a person. My son was not a JW nor was his mother - - - yet because of the problems with his mother and anger towards he for what she was doing (Daughter had already left her home for mine - could not take the hair pulling and kicking any more ) was read to slit his wrist over this as he felt that he had lost his salvation because he had so much anger towards his mom - - - so yes this is powerful - - control salvation - - - - provide or remove - - - members fall into step - -
In this read only what is provided - - So much no time to read or research other aspects.
To not question, for you are then questioning the word of GOD, and is that right - -
I have talked with JW's that had been underlining the bible sections that they were to read. And came to realize that whole sections were not covered - - and when they started looking at these sections - - - questions occurred - - when the asked about what they read - - they were removed from the JW's and not allowed to talk or say to others what they found out - - - - what do they have to fear - - - - - if the JW's are so right - - - That the ruling body is truly with GOD and Jesus - - - and being guided by them - - what do they have to fear - - - and I should blindly follow them - - - in what ever they want to do or say - -
I see many other religions having members get hyped up - - - blindly following what the minister says - - as he is the man of God, - - I see the same here - - - - only worst as this is on a large scale and controls so many aspect of a JW's life - - -
even doing things to make others look at you strange and question what you are doing and saying going - - this does not make sense - - -and the JW's love this as it means just like the bible says - - the end is coming soon - - - as true believers will be persecuted - - see just like we are - - - so what is causing what - - - your actions and off the wall beliefs - - no birthdays - - no christmas, yet the founder celebrated Christmas and even sent out Christmas cards - - Seen Watchtower - - comment about how great his cards were. yet now you loose your salvation is you have Christmas or a child's birthday party. Why - just to be different - - to make others look at you as if you are strange - - - JW's were not this way in the beginning - - - but new light - - has changed this - - - Why? Is this man or God's doing - - - How is God directing the ruling body. The official word in the 80's and before was spirits came in the night to the ruling body or head. That these spirits are from GOD - - or we are to believe - - - - but what if they are not from GOD, but from an other means - - - or source - - - - that is my question - - - we always talk about the Devil and his means - - - would this not be one of his means - - - that is my question - - but yet if a JW starts asking these types of questions - - - they react and he can be DF'ed fast.
Now would a loving and kind God act this way - - - What is a loving and kind God to be afraid of? - - - - - He is not afraid of the light or exposure - - - -
who would be afraid of the light? - - - who would be afraid of being exposed? - - - you know the answer to that
And with a small ruling body that has no checks and balances - - - that all follow blindly as if they are saying the word of God. - - - - would not the Devil want to divert the ruling body - - only a few to get so many - - - - hum - - - would the Devil be tempted - - - so many for so little work - - - - - Millions of blind followers - - -
For these reasons - - Jesus said over and over - - come directly to me - - - Come Directly to me - - - - Come Directly to me - - - - - you do not need anyone in the way - - - for just this vary reason - - - - - - - -
So again, I have done my research - - better than you have - - - if the JW members, stopped and thought about this - - - the background of the religion - - how it got started, what they are really saying - - the spin they put on everything to make them look like they are truly with GOD, Saying that they have the answers - - - all of them - - as we are with GOD and he is with us. - - - - - while they have no more answers than others do. - - - - -
I believe in freewill, I believe in using my brain and thinking, pondering and see what is what - - - - I do not simply believe in blind faith - - - God and Jesus never said we should have blind faith - - - - Jesus warns us quite a few times about what people will do - - and say in the name of the lord. - - - That the end is near and that there will be those that claim that I am with them, that the end is near, that people would try to look and look for
times, sayings, what ever to prove that now is the end of the times. A couple of months ago, I heard a person at Costco talking to one of the sample givers - - and hear came that same bible talk about end of the times and we have this proof and that proof from the bible and I looked at them and when - - - ah, Jesus says that he does not know - - so how can you - - - and that many have failed - - - as the information is not in the bible - - - Many things are not truly known - - what year something happened. Just around this time - - yet they will try to use 7 times this period of time - - results in this year - - but if you actually research this - - - and most do not as they do not have access to the information - - the 7 times is from the 7 angels - - - and and - - they do this till they get numbers that leads to a result that they want - - and then gather followers based upon this - - - - - - -
I will not simply follow a man - - just because he says that he is with GOD.
In the old testament - - the bible talks about people that will speak words in the name of GOD that was not commented by GOD - - - - GOD says do not worry about them, for I will deal with them at my own time in my own way.
I take this as a warning about this type of people - - - the Bakers, and others, including ones that have been shown in the past to not have been truthful and honest with me or others. That their words have been proven false more than once - - - and some of the vary foundations of their words are against the words of Jesus.
GOD is basically saying - - let them be, do not get worried about them - - GOD is also saying to realize that people and groups will be like this - - - as this is part of life - - -
GOD is also saying be weary of these people - - - do not blindly follow as there are people like this - - - - - Be aware - - - but also do not get c0nsumed worrying about these people - the ones that are speaking words in the name of GOD not commanded by GOD, Simply let them be, For HE will deal with them at his choice of time and means - - - - - I do not fear GOD for my GOD is a loving and kind GOD, but these words speak fear to me - - - I do not want GOD to deal with me at his choice of time and means - - - - that is an open statement of unknown results - - - I had a JW elder read this once to me over the phone - - this was after he was saying all sorts of stuff - - trying to make the bible say what it did not say.
That minister that taught accent Greek and Hebrew - - - and helped people that came out of the JW's, He was shocked that I managed to do that to an elder - - - Used his own words - - his twisting of GOD's words - - - this way - - needless to say the Elder exploded when he realized what he had said and what it meant - - - - - - By the Elder's own words - - he had been speaking words of GOD that was not commanded by GOD and I pointed this out to him - - - - and made him realize that he was facing GOD's wreath because of it - - -
Note an attack simply proves their point - - the end of the times is here, so I did not attack simply asked for explanations for what different things said and meant - - -
So yes, I did the research - - I had copies of all of the documents, this was 20 years ago. - -
So again - - - with a ruling body - - that controls salvation for millions would the ruling body be a prime target for the Devil,
Note the ruling body says they get their new light by spirits in their dreams - - - I go yea right. - - - and my comment if this is really true - - - and they believe in spirits - - ah where are they in the bible - - - and that the spirits are actually doing this - - - who are the spirits - - GOD's or the Devils. - - - -
In the bible - - angels would come down and talk with the people - - not spirits - - -
So again - - who and what are the spirits - - - - - this is documented in writings of JW's.
that is my question to all - - - - - -
Jim P. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:25:40 AM |
This thread was not meant to be a religous debate that you have obviously felt it is, it was meant for the OP to get a feel for if her interest in this particular guy was going to lead anywhere.
Jim P...what he said. Your posts are so long and so numerous, did you ever actually answer the OP's question? I tried to read them but I only got so far.
The question basically was does the poster have a chance at a happy relationship, as an agnostic, with someone who's a Jehovah's Witness?
Not, let's argue the tenets of this religion/faith thread.
So...short answer Jim P--do you think it would work? I'm not a JW, nor am I interested in becoming one. I did date a gentleman who is one and gave my experiences on that. Please...do just what some of us have done. Answer the OP's question. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:34:40 AM | Jim P. Write a book. Otherwise, knock it off.
You may think that since you read a single volume of a book written seventy years ago and knew someone who may or may not have been associated with the faith... Again, this does not make you versed in the way of the faith. Go to a few meetings, open your ears and listen to the people.
Besides the real debate here is relationships. Jehovah's Witnesses are good people. Clean, kind and full of respect, these are all qualities you do not posses. Maybe you should start there. So again, unless you are here to help the OP with her issues and answer her questions, keep your religious and political opinions to yourself.
Period. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 8:24:46 AM | I dont have time to read all 6 pages of this, but I wanted to give my knowledge of the situation.
I was dating a girl who's mom is a Witness and she was studying. We got married and we were both studying, going to meetings and door to door and had serious intentions of getting baptised (up until our divorce). So I know a lot about the religion, I would like to say almost everything.
He is kidding himself if he thinks its OK for him to date and later marry someone of a different religion, as that is something looked down on heavily within the congregation. There are many pieces of literature and talks in their halls about not relating outside of the religion because of the possible damages it could have on your own faith and progress as a witness.
So either he doesnt know much about his own religion, or he isnt very strong in his faith. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 8:41:59 AM | | Taking religion out of this completely. I'd say his response to your apprehension is like saying this relationship will never go anywhere BUT I'd be happy to date you/sleep with you for now. | |
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| Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 10:18:34 AM | James:
I do not know who feeds your head with such lies but I have some swamp for you to buy in Florida if you are that easily fooled.
You sir are reasons why people develope wrong impressions of others.
My mother is a witness I know what they beleive and it is all bible based.
before anyone listen's to this mans mocking of any faith, go to the source not the enemy.. | |
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