| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/6/2008 1:16:29 PM | | To thine own self be true!! - The first prerequisite for AA, is a sincere desire to quit drinking( or other addictions ). The battlefield is not AA, but within the individual, who has the addiction. The AA program will and does work, if the individual will work his program also. If a person reads and uses the 12 steps, and also works at the steps... he or she will will make a break through discovery into their real selves. ...OP- If they run.... so what!! There are many, many, recovered people from all sorts of addictions, on this site, and all around you. We have all been here all along!! Believe in yourself, and your recovery. If they run.... you should run the opposite way!! , if they want to continue with their addictive behaviors. Be true to yourself. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/6/2008 2:42:54 PM | | A truly recovered person could have a single glass of wine at dinner and it would be no problem. AA members are never truly recovered; that would be considered a setback, instead of the awesome achievement that it would actually be. They consider abstinence, rather than actual self-control, as the measure of success. That is a prison I would not want to live in. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/6/2008 3:29:52 PM | | Well the AMA along with many credible instituions disagree with you. I see you have what I would consider your own prison, religeon. To me religeon is for people who are afraid of going to hell, spirituality is for people who have been to hell. I wont comment on your religeon since Im not your brand of christian, maybe you shouldnt comment on alcoholism since your not one. Humilty is spiritual trait to practice. Alcoholism isnt about the quantity someone drinks in all cases. I was what they called a " functioning drunk" . Never got a drunk driving, jail etc. I drank 4 beers every night during the week. BUT, when Im controling my drinking Im not enjoying my drinking, when Im enjoying my drinking Im not controlling my drinking. Its both biological and in the mind. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 6:04:26 AM | I think you are mising the point...Most relationships of any depth involve shared agenda/mutual understanding of each other's pain/mutual carefree joy/maybe the same religious philosophical thing.....
You would very likely be best suited to a relationship with an other AA member....you will immediately have an idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses and thus connect and be confident that you are there for each other....
speaking for myself - that is why i would run a mile from an AA member or someone who has been sexually abused as a child...not because there is anything more wrong with you than anyone else ....just very different experience and totaly different way of dealing with it...to put it another way AA and Islam are both very positive paths for those who choose to follow them but they are both religions that to some extent at least exclude an intimate relationship with those who do not follow. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 8:59:01 AM | sorry Randy...TallTexann is dead on. may i suggest you try step 13...autonony from the 12 steps. your arguments sound like you are brainwashed. perhaps try independent critical thinking and not 'practicing these principles in all our affairs' or something like that. following a herd mentality limits ones growth. one day at a time is a wonderful survival skill but more worthless than even the mere concept of mammary glands on a bull as a growth skill. there's a lot of sick psychology and twisted truths spewed by aa and alanon.
the vast majority of people who post on these alcoholic threads who have been with alcoholics in one way or another overwhelmingly say...stay away. that should tell you something....
i do commend you for quitting a destructive lifestyle...but even when one stops boozing, that boozing mentality still sticks around...so whats gained???? | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:13:33 AM | Totally! You are right about being honest. Those people have their own limits, don't worry about them or let it second guess your ability to find happiness, pat yourself on the back for doing well, it will come someone who understand you and appreciate what you have done for yourself!
And the relationship will have far more depth, for the honesty you are willing to share! | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:48:03 AM | I agree with boise and talltexan...ONLY because I had to deal with a recovering alcoholic (now ex) Bro-in-law who after getting into AA became a cultist....family and family needs came second to his AA family..I went to several AA meets as well as AlAnon to attempt to understand what he was doing, and felt like I had entered a Moonie Group.
He never got his a$$ into counseling to address the REASONS he was addicted, and is now a dry-drunk. His "issues" still exist, only buried even deeper.
Actually, he was a far more pleasant person to be around when he was a (functional) drunk...now he (and many of his peers I have met at AA) is a self-righteous judgmental jerk.
But then, I have known a few "success stories"....they credit the Org for their "success" but I feel it was THEIR own inner success that accomplished it for them...AA was the crutch or catalyst..however one interprets it.
AA also has a 90% failure rate.....
Interestingly,I noticed the Bro-in-law (and many of his AA peers) had taken up chain smoking and gulping copious amounts of coffee all day...one addiction for another?
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:49:32 AM | | The only thing that would make me turn away is if you would say......."AA drop out to go get a drink" | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:50:23 AM | boise . Bad news babe. talltexann has not the first idea what there talking about. If a person quit smoking because it could cause cancer would you say come on you can have just one. No you would not. And why? Because it is a physical illness. Alcoholics have a disease. You look at reports on smoking and say "wow thats not cool" . Why dont people do more research before judging alcoholics. Randy "YOU GO BOY!" tomorrow the 8 of march is my 10 years sober. And I have a fun life. I go dancing and some of my friend drink a little and we go out and have a ball.
PS We do relate better to other people in AA because we have similar issues. We do deal with the issues there. It is not a cult! That is just plain stupid! Is all church's a cult? If family member have a concern now that members are getting help and go to meeting. Where the hell were they before? Did they care or like the majority of people. Turn the back and try to act like you did not exist or maybe they thought you were mentaliy ill and hid you from familey and friends. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:52:19 AM | Couldn't have said it better boise...alot of AA members do sound brainwashed as if to convince themselves..but that type of thinking doesn't work in the real world. If you want to get a promotion and take it "one day at a time"...it doesn't always guarantee the promotion..I know lame example however..the AA principals only continue to enable the non reality based thinking..I think in AA they call it "stinkin thinkin". Initially it helps a drunk to get on track for a more therapudic approach to recovery, but they have to make that transition from AA to a therapist first. Alot sound robotic and act like everyone should know what they are talking about. Lets learn to pat the people on the back that choose not to drink/drug. Alkies made their lives unmanagable...why do they need a reward or special treatment to change it? Dry drunks are quite rampant in AA. They take away the drink and continue to behave like an alkie. I wish well anyone that tries to stay sober...I just think AA ( a crutch) exacerbates the problems and prolongs healing from it. They make the alkie believe they cannot recover without the principals of a book or a meeting. This enables an already insecure addict. Kind of like an emotional blackmail. There are other forms of therapy that work according to the individual and not the herding method. If one thing worked for everyone, we would all be able to fit in the same pair of underwear.
There is no evidence that alcoholism is a disease ( its written this way on a brochure written by AA)...and plenty of documentation that it causes diseases. I have 35 years of experience with it here and have seen the the "alkie rodeo denial" reasons come and go, for why they think they pick up a drink and do this to themselves. Its a behavior problem...not a disease. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:54:37 AM | | I have to somewhat disagree with Magincia. Not all woman are just out for money & someone fake. Granted there are a lot of women out ther, but I think there are just as many men out there that are just as superficial. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:05:44 AM | | Some people just don't get it. I am also a member of AA (I am coming up on 18 years on 3/10). You tell them you are in AA and they automatically picture the worse case scenario sometimes. Others are more understanding. I have found it is helpful to let them know I don't drink from the get go but the AA thing I bring up after a date or two. This way you are not scaring them off by giving them too much information. I hope this helps. Good luck to you! | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:07:43 AM | I wish you the very best in your recovery, don't be cross with these women, their ignorance is their loss.
The steps are something that everyone could learn from.
xxx | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:10:52 AM | jeanieweeman People who dont know what there talking about should say nothing. The program works in every step and experience I face in life. Dont generalize. I think learning the principels of aa would benifit everyone in there life. You need to research your words more carefully.
A Dry Drunk is someone who stops drinking on there own with out any counseling or support. And most all successful members of AA have private counseling. I have never met one member that sounds like a robot! Your last statment. Check with your doctor do some research yes it is a desease! Same as heart disease. Cancer any disease. And left untreated. Can be deadly. People who dont know and make it sound like a stigma keep many people from getting help for this disease. If you suspect your relative has cancer would you just tell them its in there head and they can control it. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:16:55 AM | BB,
There's a difference between rock-bottom honesty and compulsive disclosure. Saying that you're in AA is one thing. Tellying a woman you go 3 times a week before she knows you well enough to see that you're stable, positive, and reliable, is quite another. Are you testing her when you do that?
When it comes to disclosures like this, Easy Does It.
BTW, good for you for taking care of yourself and staying honest! Yay!!!!!!!! | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:22:24 AM | | Charlie, the strange thing about experience is that it's the only teacher that gives the test before the lesson. Most women, either within AA or without, aren't totally sure what they are looking for anyway. Isn't it funny how men and women just don't trust eachother? All I can tell you about this is "To Thine Own Self Be True." I've tried dating women in the program and women outside of it. It's all the same, really. Women in AA have at least taken a look at the question of whether or not they could live with a recovering person. I mean REALLY taken a look at it. Hell, I married a recovering woman that I had known for 15 years, and it still didn't work out. So much for being friends first. Take it Easy, One Day At A Time, Live and Let Live and all that, my friend. By the inch, it's a cinch. By the Yard, it's hard. Keep it Simple Stupid. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:30:02 AM | It was several months before my last wife ~ afforded me the knowledge that she had been and was deeply involved with professional counseling.
Would this knowledge before hand ~ been of value ~~ hell yes!
would it have changed my mind ~ no, not then ~ but
now ~~ hell yes!!!!
~ You must get yourself right ~ Mister ~ thats number one!!
whatever it is ~
to share this knowledge ~ I'd say not too early ~ and please, old please ~
not too late. ~ dar | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:39:07 AM | No need to get defensive kdbugg. AA is not always counceling or support. Also It is not a disease. Alkies tell themselves that to deter responsibility of their actions onto some other blame, which is what alkies do quite well. Denial. I am glad you are recovering, I know its an ongoing nemesis. No need to bite someones opinion because it differs from your own. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong..we have just had different education and experiences. This is where I was going with this...
disease (n.) A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.
Therefore alcohol CAUSES disease. Its always spun to fit around the disease definition. I do know what I am talking about. I am in the medical profession and have many recovering friends and family, some 38 years plus. They all agree with what I have said. Some put their input in as I am writing this. Ten years of sobriety doesn't make you an expert, it just means you made it out with therapy AND counceling. I believe that is what I said to begin with. AA alone doesn't work. I am proud of your accomplishments and wish you well. Cancer is a disease that one gets from genetic predisposition, and environmental stress ( chemicals, exposure ect) you don't always survive it when treated. Alcoholism causes diseases like billiary cirrhosis of the liver and heart disease to name a few. The alcohol causes damage to these organs...it is not a disease. It can be treated and it isn't an equal comparison to something like cancer. Truth is suppose to be part of recovery, be happy you made it out. Alcoholism is a learned behavior, much like child abuse. I would never get involved with an addict of any kind again knowing what I know and what I have experienced. It is the reason alot of people run when they hear AA. I do wish you well KDBUGG...keep up the good work. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:46:55 AM | But then, I have known a few "success stories"....they credit the Org for their "success" but I feel it was THEIR own inner success that accomplished it for them...AA was the crutch or catalyst..however one interprets it.
The 12 Steps are a method. People who apply the method with proper guidance from those who have successfully used it tend to succeed as well. Going to meetings is not part of the method. Going to meetings is what people do to find the help they need in learning how to apply it. People who succeed are careful about the sponsors they choose.
The people who succeed do so by being completely honest with themselves about where they stand and how they got themselves into such a bad condition. They also recognize that they can't succeed without outside help because the addictive pattern of thinking has distorted their judgment. They therefore become willing to accept appropriate help.
Being a member of AA won't get anyone sober or sane. Working the Steps has helped a lot of people. The slogan-slinging dry drunks might not be working the Steps, or it might be early days for them, but for many people being addicted to the program is still better than being hung-over every day or worse.
There is a biological component to addiction that has been proven. It involves a flood of dopamine in response to an associated stimulus. The dopamine release has the effect of magnifying the perceived importance of the associated stimulus. It skews a person's judgement where that stimulus is concerned.
The stimulus can be a substance that alters mood or thinking or a situation that provokes a mood- or mind-altering hormonal response. Anything that brings temporary releif from chronic unresolved anxiety can trigger the dopamine release. Once that happens, the association is formed and the stimulus becomes a person's top priority. They literally believe they cannot survive without a repeat of the experience. And that makes sense in a way, as relief from chronic anxiety can eventually become a matter of survival.
What people trapped in an addictive cycle don't understand is that the experience of relief, which is what they actually crave, can be obtained by other means. The 12 Steps lead people through one process that produces lasting relief through a practice of rock-bottom honesty. The point is to get to the underlying anxiety that drives the addictive behavior. Often, but not always, the anxiety comes from a habituated belief system that has distorted a person's worldview. The 12 Steps are designed to uncover those hidden and unhappy assumptions and replace them with assumptions that lead to a more serene understanding of oneself and one's place in the world. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:59:00 AM | It never fails to amaze me how there are people out there that really do believe that we are all the same and through our "sameness" we can all receive the same treatment with predictably same results. There is no ONE true path to recovery. For all of us, it is one that is a combination of what we allow God to install in our lives and what we find acceptable to us as individuals. In other words, there is no generic treatment that WILL work with everybody. However, I've found more truth in AA than I've ever found in psychology, religion, pharmaceutical therapy, or any other form of behavior modification.
The armchair therapists out there would do well to just back off and let the drunk do what he does best....work with other alcoholics. Non-recovering people don't have a clue, nor are they likely to. For most of them, sobriety is still a matter of personal willpower and behavior modification rather than finding a way to align our personal wills with that of a Higher Power and living the miracle. Take what you need and leave the rest, Jeanie. | |
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oshan
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Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 446 | |
| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:05:41 AM |
No sh.. program girls do take hostages Thats why im so fast on my feet and thanks fus247 that was sweet and real sorry about your ex he will get over you in no time drunk NOT ! LOL and by the way i do love myself if i dont who will ??? And counsellor mate things must be different across the pond but thanks anyway
Well, this is very revealing. If program girls take hostages, what do program boys do? No, it's not trick question. I think that alot of people who attend AA have some major problems that would be much more expediently and thoroughly resolved by going to a counselor or psychotherapist. The emotional wounds that are at the root of the need to medicate with alcohol need to be addressed thoroughly. This doesn't happen at AA. Imo, AA is a more superficial approach to dealing with these issues, and it tends to keep the individual 'outside himself' in a sort of social scene which AA tends to be. Alcoholism like all addictions are an outward search for enlightenment, when the search needs to be inside. AA and NA also attracts alot of people who are just looking for another distraction from the real issues they are either too afraid to address or are in denial of. I respectfully suggest that you get some real help with your issues, and then if you want to attend AA for support and comaradie, that would be much more appropriate and beneficial.
Personally, I would be quite scheptical about dating anyone who needs AA as some sort of crutch because it tends to be somewhat of a cult.....imo
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:09:20 AM | | I understand how you feel. I was with someone that was an alcholic and it did matter to me THEN. There is no reason in this world why you hae to tell anyone anything about that. If they ask "why dn's you drink" just say "I don't pefer too". A sponsor in AA once told me that you do NOT have to tell everyone in the world to make you feel better. Some things are meant to be left unsaid and I think this is one of those cases. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:23:37 AM | I don't blame them for running. Also when someone starts underlining "honesty" I'd run myself.
Any intelligent woman who has been involved with a drunk and learned should run. And any woman who hasn't been involved with one knows better that to get involved.
Sorry pal but you're damaged goods.
The Eagle | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:30:27 AM | Well, ... wasn't that helpful?
BB won't be damaged forever. As long as he keeps being honest with himself and cultivates an open mind and heart he'll get better. He might even find that he develops beyond the point he might have reached if hadn't been forced to get honest about his own shortcomings. | |
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| Say AA and watch them run
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:38:09 AM | I don't think a lot of people are willing to give chances to those that have made mistakes in the past. Nobody wants to think that there is something wrong with the person they're seeing, or something they might have to worry about in the future.
I dated someone who was a recovering alcoholic and coke addict. He'd been clean for a while, and I know he can stay clean if he keeps up the meetings and talks to his sponsor. You always wonder though about them "falling off the wagon" again.
Hope you can meet someone that understands and is ready to help when you might need it. | |
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