|
|
|
|
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/11/2008 2:50:39 PM | Ok, I'll try and put it from this angle.. a lot of posters like to bring our evolutionary history into human behaviours, and quote why people do what they do, men will explain staring and appreciating a womans chest from an evolutionary point of view, and most people nod, and accept that,.. but from the evolutionary point of view.. when a woman is having a sexual part of her body stared at, commented on,.. or mentioned.. she can feel intimidated.. feeling intimidation is just a kick in the ass away from fear... what some men will never understand, because they hardly ever get to experience it, is the frisson of fear, that runs through you when a man, or even worse, a group of men whistle, cat call, or draw attention to a sexual part of your body. It may go back to thousands of years ago, when such attention may have been the prelude to an attack, or an assault on a woman by a sexually aroused male.. think about it.. some guy in work, or where ever, is staring at your chest,.. you know its sexual.. you feel embarrassed, insulted,.. and possibly, in some circumstances.. intimidated.. or even a little feared.. you can say that she's perfectly safe,.. but the feeling, programmed into her thousands of years ago, is still there. She cant fight, she cant even run,.. so she uses anger, or annoyance to try and counter those feelings.
If some of you want to do that, fine,.. like I said before, even women who dont want this attention get it all the same.. and thats when men should see the bullying involved in this, and instead of condoning it, they should have the balls to call out men doing this.. because the next time, it could be your daughter, or sister, or mother who is being leered at. In my first post, I did take the view that a small glance or whatever was'n the end of the world,.. and I still think that.. but staring because you feel you have the RIGHT to do so, and not caring how that makes a woman feel,.. well, thats beyond the pale, IMO. And I DO say plenty, when it happens to me.. Im not unrealistic.. I do call men out on it, but then you get accused of playing victim.. Jeez, you just cant win. Miss Eyre. | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/11/2008 3:01:24 PM | Your last line is key. If you aren't happy with it, do something about it. You are telling the female point of view on the issue, males are telling the male point. You won't see their point, and they likely won't see yours. You won't emphasize with things that make a man uncomfortable.
I am not a jerk by any means, but I will admit I have looked at breasts. And I have looked at butts. They are attractive. I am not going to apologize. I have caught plenty of people looking at my crotch before.
If a guy is leering at you and you don't like it, you are fully in your right to say something. But it's up to you to do that. Thinking about it and not acting isn't going to change anything.
I'm sorry but I think your posts are just unrealistic. | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/11/2008 3:33:10 PM |
I have caught plenty of people looking at my crotch before.
Good point...I didn't think guys noticed that! | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/11/2008 4:09:08 PM | "Good point...I didn't think guys noticed that!"
Hmm, I’ve never caught a woman looking at my crotch...
I'd love to catch a woman looking at it, lol.
| |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/11/2008 4:22:54 PM | It's 'wandering eyes' just like guys have when talking to women sometimes. It might have happened and you just haven't noticed. It has happened to me quite a few times. And yes, there was even one situation where someone got 'grabby'. Granted was singing in a band at the time, which seemed to make things like that ok for some bizarre reason.
I'll admit females will obviously have way more problems. I am just pointing out that to think it's a female only issue having people do things that make you uncomfortable, is dreaming. It's not 'right'. But it happens. | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/11/2008 4:23:21 PM | blondiebabs, what is it you see in a crotch?
I guess it depends on the pants?
I guess I don't see how a bulge in pants compares to nice bouncy boobes & cleavage...
| |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/11/2008 7:17:22 PM | | I'd have to guess it's more that if the buldge stands out, it's a good sign lol. I don't do much bulge watching myself. | |
|
exxess
|
Joined: 1/31/2006
Msg: 433 | |
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/11/2008 10:53:56 PM | | If it makes the OP feel any better there is a scientific reason why men stare at women's breast. It actually has a lot to do with evolution and our DNA or genetic makeup. Before we even evolved into Neanderthal man we were essentially on all fours. Being that we were on all fours the male usually looked at the female from behind. Now being of natural selection the female needed something to attract a male so they would have a bare ass. Of course this changed when we started walking upright and need took notice. | |
|
| Why do men stare at womens boobs & think we don't notice ???
Posted: 3/11/2008 11:59:54 PM | | Keep your sweathercows under wraps. If I was walking around in spandex so tight my junk was clearly visible I'm sure people would be staring at it. It's a natural response... I've also read that men have poor peripheral vision and always get popped staring at women's hooters. I put little stake in the latter theory though... | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:48:25 AM |
Before we even evolved into Neanderthal man we were essentially on all fours. With the evolution of homo ergaster disprove this assertion. This hominid was a wonderful success and reigned for nearly 300,000 years. Granted there were other hominid species, but ergaster was the one homo sapiens is descended.
I doubt some of these explanations for why men like chichis so much. Is the same reason why women like to look at a penis (in privacy?). Male and female do have programming that make certain body parts like a trigger that elicit responses.
J | |
|
| Ugg goes to the office
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:59:10 AM | Rune and Miss Eyre,
Oh yeah, forgot about this thread.
So basically, you both ignored the qualifiers in my original post and those in my responses. Nevertheless you insist on commanding the moral high ground. How nicely selective of you both. Miss Eyre has already said that she agrees with me but unfortunately, she doesn't like the way I phrased it. "Oh...what ?" you're saying. Yup. You should both read less selectively. You'll find that I never advocated for 'hootin' 'n hollerin' or blatant staring. Never said anything about touching or even entering personal space. You're both just looking for reasons to feel offended so that you can claim the morally superior position. Nice tries though. No, wait, actually, they were terrible attempts on your parts. Chauvinistic ? Do either of you even actually know what that word means ? As it stands, that would sum up your attitudes about this I'd say.
Oh, and Exxess or whatever above,
Humans aren't evolved from neanderthals. Totally different species there. | |
|
| The POINT.
Posted: 3/12/2008 12:15:53 PM | There has been some good debate here...
Believe it or not, the fact that we have 18 pages of discussion is the most important part!
Suffering in silence, believing that no one person can do anything about it, or being ignorant to a our own (male & female) contributions to the issue is where we can all lose.
I, personally, don't have any trouble diverting these kind of unwanted attentions with a few simple tools.
Attitude is key, like when your mother told you to have your keys out, walk with a purpose, and check the corners on the way to your car ("You must not let others believe you are an easy target.").
Err on the side of conservative ["Always wear shoes (bra) you can run in."].
Nip unwanted attention in the bud ("Stand up straight, and look them in the eye!").
Use your voice ("YOU NEED TO MOVE ON TO AN EASIER TARGET, BUDDY.").
Translation:
Behaving worthy of respect is the foundation for maintaining it at work, the parking lot, or even the courthouse.
It is much harder to regain your position once you have lost it... (Remember who "over-did-it" at YOUR last Office Christmas Party?) Act accordingly.
If a gentle, even humorous reminder doesn't curtail the behavior in the beginning it doesn't mean DEFCON 1 has to be immediately declared, but sometimes once just isn't enough.
Be willing to reinforce your position CALMLY and FIRMLY (a truly powerful person never has to yell) that the behavior and/or commentary is out-of-bounds.
(*There are some tools where you can start on one of my previous posts on pg. 13.*)
Practice a few tools of your own, and you will make yourself less susceptible to this kind of disrespect in your own workplace and beyond.
MY MANTRA:
I am no victim. I will not victimize.
I will not allow others to be victimized in my presence, I will speak up when he/she cannot speak up for themselves.
I have a duty to empower others with the tools to deflect negative behaviors and attitudes, where ever it occurs.
The more tools we are able to use effectively in the very beginning, the less we all will have to defend ourselves in the future.
Please share your tools with us! It truly benefits us all. | |
|
| Ugg goes to the office
Posted: 3/12/2008 1:02:46 PM | @Gotapulse
Don't assume I was offended: I was not. I was simply observing the holes in the argument you posted to this thread and perhaps poking a little fun too, because sexual harassment in the workplace is a serious issue but I feel more like laughing at those who try to argue in favour of such behaviour, as you appeared to do, rather than taking them seriously when it is clear that they simply haven't a clue.
I wasn't aware that Miss Eyre and I especially 'commanded' the moral high ground and your observation is a curious one. Any person can choose to behave in a way that satisfies their own integrity. If this is being moral then it is something that is open to anyone and anyone who feels that they are not moral according to their own definition of the word has only themselves to look to. In short: if you feel that you are not on moral high ground, that is your own affair and no-one else's.
I don't think the rest of your argument applies to me but I support the very valid points that Miss Eyre has made about being aware of the effect that your behaviour has on others and on having the compassion and the respect to modify that behaviour being a choice that adults can consciously make. There is no bias in this: women and men modify their behaviour to be sensitive to others who are different or feel differently from themselves. This consideration is surely an essential part of society. | |
|
| |
| Why do men stare at womens boobs & think we don't notice ???
Posted: 3/12/2008 2:56:32 PM | I remember a cartoon... may have been a web cartoon, not sure... a gentleman is holding a lady by her (clothed) breasts, lifting and separating, and his nose is practically touching them... he is saying "Don't mind me, I'm a compulsive T-Shirt reader."
I also recall reading some years back that "little" Punky Brewster wasn't quite so little any more. By the time she was 16 she had 20pound sweater stretchers (each???) which were causing her some insane back problems and her boyfriend (Eddie Furlong, at the time) to get his ass kicked repeatedly "defending" her from stares. I imagine it was something of a relief to get a reduction. Some would also say a shame, but well, walk a mile in her shoes...
I can understand that perhaps some men need to learn to be a bit more subtle when admiring a woman's breastesses. Can any guy honestly say that their girlfriend has never said "I think those guys said something rude about my breasts?" I can't.
Now... I just don't think it's reasonable comparing a woman wearing a top that flatters to a guy wearing spandex pants. Seriously... no one wants to see that!!! | |
|
| Why do men stare at womens boobs & think we don't notice ???
Posted: 3/12/2008 4:14:40 PM |
probably cause your showing them.....If you have them out I'm looking! Try wearing appropriate clothing and you may have a better quality date!
Define 'showing'? They're not detachable. I have a friend who has a very ample bussom, she says she wishes they were detachable, she doesn't wear revealing clothing yet guys stare, what is she supposed to do? Guys check out a large chest regardless of it being 'covered', and not just a quick glance, a full on stare.
Someone previously said that guys are never going to understand why it intimidates us and we're never going to understand why guys don't understand. At the moment this feels like a very circular discussion.
H.x | |
|
| Why do men stare at womens boobs & think we don't notice ???
Posted: 3/12/2008 4:34:02 PM | Here's one more guy's perspective on it. Take it for whatever worth you ascribe to it.
There's a difference between "looking" and "staring", in my opinion. I'm loathe to use the phrase "we're hardwired", because one of the things that sets human beings apart from animals on the planet is that we have choice that we can intellectually exercise. We have higher thought processes than any other animal on the planet. We're more advanced emotionally, intellectually and socially. I might have a knee-jerk reaction if I see a woman with ample endowments to stare, but I'm the one who makes the choice on whether to stare or not. I'm going to look, yes, particularly if she's wearing clothing that draws attention to her breasts. But if I'm talking with her, I make a point to make eye contact. Why? Because it shows I'm listening. I might be acutely aware of her chest the whole time we're talking, but we can multitask. I'm not remotely homosexual or bisexual, but if I'm talking with a guy who's totally ripped, then I'm going to be acutely aware of his muscles the entire time I'm talking with him. It's just the way I personally am, as a result of personal choices, past life experiences, genetic predispositions, etc. The reality is this: I often stare directly at someone's eyes when they're talking to me, and I've been told this can make them uncomfortable as well.
The funny thing, to me, is that in the instances I've observed, men are rarely actually staring at a woman's chest while they're having an actual conversation with her. If they're hitting on her at a bar, that's one thing. Whether ladies like to admit this or not, the reality is that for most men, if they're hitting on you at a bar, they don't know anything about you personally yet, and all they have to go on is physical attraction, so that's likely to be what draws their attention the most til you give them a reason to put it elsewhere.
Some women have as much blame lain on them as the man who's staring at their breasts, however. I can't fathom that women would legitimately not recognize that the clothes they sometimes wear draw attention to one body part or another. You wear tight jeans, you're going to have men (and maybe even other ladies) staring at your butt. There are jeans you can wear that are flattering but don't hug every curve you've got.
The same goes with what a lady is wearing up top. If she's wearing a bra that compacts and elevates her breasts, then no matter what she's wearing, attention is going to be drawn to her breasts. If she's wearing a tight t-shirt, a low-cut blouse, or their like, then she's going to have her breasts stared at.
Again I point out that there are a lot of flattering tops out there a lady can wear that are fashionable, and are likely to be attractive to her own sense of style, that don't draw attention to her breasts. If she legitimately can't find a single top that doesn't hug her curves or otherwise pull attention away from her face in daily interactions, then perhaps she needs to really sit down and do a self-inventory, and figure out whether she might subconsciously desire more attention than she consciously wants.
It doesn't excuse men who are being donkeys and staring unabashedly at a woman's chest the whole time they're talking to her. I'm not saying those men aren't out there. But I wonder if, perhaps, there aren't quite as many of them as some ladies are complaining about. Then again, I'm not a woman, and have only on very rare occasions been hit on by other men, so perhaps there's a part of the perspective I'm missing here. | |
|
| Why do men stare at womens boobs & think we don't notice ???
Posted: 3/12/2008 4:55:04 PM | why is everyone getting so deep about this? men LIKE boobies...some more than others but every last one of them will take a look. the rude ones flat out stare. nothing will change this in OUR lifetime.
hehehehe booooobies | |
|
| Why do men stare at womens boobs & think we don't notice ???
Posted: 3/12/2008 5:22:04 PM | If you have large breasts and don't like the extra attention, you may consider getting them reduced before you go on a killing rampage against men. Also, do you wear clothes that show them off? That gets some attention. That gets around.
My suggestion is you should talk to these people who stare at your breasts, and of course, don't complain or break off over the first few stares. That will make them less comfortable with staring at the untalking parts of you. Usually when a woman talks a man will look at her lips and eyes. | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/12/2008 5:24:53 PM | A woman can detract attention away from her breasts by covering them up only to a certain extent. If she has really large or attractive (well-formed) breasts then there's nothing she can do to stop it but make men feel uncomfortable about it.
yes lil bit,,,BUT, if a woman doesnt WANT to have her boobs stared qat, she wont make them overly visible | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/12/2008 5:47:42 PM |
when a woman is having a sexual part of her body stared at, commented on,.. or mentioned.. she can feel intimidated
OK, I'll go back to the evolution thingymalarky on this one.
It's only in modern times where boobs are deemed to be 'sexual'.
When prehistoric man was checking out boobs he was judging them has an indicator of good health and the ability of a woman to nurture potential offspring.
Prehistoric woman know this and flaunted her assets to attract the best mate.
Its why todays cosmetic industry is so large....mankind is still driven by his basic instincts.
I can appreciate the fear aspect of being leared at though but thats just down to the way you're looking at it. It can also produce excitement and much like pleasure and pain are closely associated excitement and fear share a similar connection..............Been on any white knuckle rides lately?  | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/12/2008 5:59:21 PM | To Ironman UK
Yep, I understand that breasts are not always seen as sexual even in this day and age in certain parts of the world,.. but in our Society, they are,.. and because women see them that way, and men see them that way.. a stare from a man is still based on sexual thoughts,..hell, nearly every man on this thread would agree that staring at breasts comes from a sexual place.. so my point still stands.
I find it outrageous that you feel that i need to revise my thinking on this,.. so, instead of just addmitting that although men are compelled to have a quick look, they really shouldnt stare, what you seem to be saying is that I should reframe my whole view on this to see it as some kind scarey/complimentary/intimidatory/sexual thing? and enjoy it? Are you mad?
Thats just kinked, ok? I'm not even going to address it properly. I dont like 'badboys' or the thrill of having some predatory prat licking his lips over me.. like the Big Bad Wolf.. Gawd, and to the poster who recommends painful, risky and potentially life threatening breast reduction surgery as a method of stopping men staring.. well, wow, just.. wow.. thats the level of mentality we're dealing with on this subject, is it? God help us.
Oh, and gottapulse, if you feel myself and Rune have the high ground, then thats your view,.. mind you, if you're the low ground, and least it changes the view for you, you can ogle our breasts from a different angle, for a change.. Miss Eyre. | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/12/2008 6:23:27 PM | Meh, as far as the workplace goes, most companies have some form of HR in place to deal appropriately with these issues. And because sexual harassment in the workplace is something NO ONE wants to be involved in, most companies that don't have responsible HR policies in place deal effectively with it, if for no other reason than to keep things from getting ugly. The higher up you go, the more black and white that particular issue becomes because then, it becomes political. If it's truly a problem and you fear for your safety, there is always the police.
On the street... I'm rarely intimidated. I like a challenge so if a guy actually has enough b*lls to say something to me about them, I'm more amused than offended. I prefer wit, the dumb drooling comments usually result in a very pointed, almost member-shrinking comment. But as quickly as it happens, it's gone because... well, why dwell on it? I don't care. If you like them and I like you, you might even get to see more. If I don't like you, enjoy it... because that is all. | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/12/2008 8:04:50 PM | | I can see walking by a great looking lady or on first meeting having her capture your attention for a few seconds with her beauty but that's it.. Staring in the workplace, naw .. this shouldn't happen day after day.. Seeing a person everyday for 8 hours a day 5 days a week and still staring, that's not a man it's a pervert.. There is more to another person then her breats or ass or crotch etc.. This discussion revolved around 2 different thoughts.. The original question I think was involving the work place which is a daily happening and the other was random meeting and a WOW NICE factor.. Two different senarios.. You see a nice lady let's say like Miss Eyre (sucking up) and check her out on her profile.. humm nice pics, then read the profile and get a sense of the person so now the staring is over.. Not explaining to well but I think you get the drift.. 2 different discussions to one question | |
|
| Lack-of-Sensitivity Training
Posted: 3/12/2008 8:30:20 PM | "instead of just addmitting that although men are compelled to have a quick look, they really shouldnt stare"
That's a little more reasonable view IMO. As I mentioned in a previous post, I am not a jerk and I don't gawk at women or make lewd comments. But I have totally glanced before. It would be ridiculous to deny that. I don't think someone should be made to feel guilty for that.
It's just a weird line. I personally am very turned on by women's eyes. More so than breasts. So should I feel guilty if I get caught up staring at someone's eyes? | |
|
|
| Page 18 of 29
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 |
|
Home
login 
