| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 5:53:55 AM | | The last time I heard about forming a contract for haveing sex was illegal! It is called solicitation for prostitution. If you applied laws without using your brain...everyone in America could be arrested for some law they have inadvertantly broken depending on YOUR interpretation. The interpretation of our Constitution could be explained in favor of same sex marriage or not depending on whom has the best argument, and public oppinion. There is no law against a man living with a man or a woman living with a woman. So lets be honest...it is the legal question we are talking about because who deserves your social security when you die? Who is allowed to take out insurance on you naming themselfs as bebeficiary? Why don't the head nurse let you in your partners room? Yhese are the true issues not what people think about homosexuality. By the way, I am a Contituionalist, protestistant, social liberal and a economic conservative that don't have an oppinion about how God feels about who should love who. As you can tell Constitutional Law and Religion is a passion of mine and Americans all should take as much interest or you may find yourself on trial for being difdferent and executed for your oppinions like some of the countries we are fighting are also passion about. If you read this long ramblings thank you and God Bless ALL America. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 11:42:26 AM | "The last time I heard about forming a contract for haveing sex was illegal!"
Ssshhhhhh, you're not being politically correct if you point out simple truth and fact. Will get you in all kinds of trouble in here. LOL You aren't supposed to point out that they are asking for something different.
I still say that if they DID just enter into some kind of legal partnership, or some other kind of contract (there are PLENTY of loopholes etc out there LOL) without trying to call it marriage, which it isn't, they could get around the whole thing. Sex can just be a "side benefit" LOL Seems they are just putting their efforts into getting everyone all upset instead of putting it toward attaining a reasonable goal. | |
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xamo
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Msg: 29 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 12:05:39 PM | | No, I do not understand the question. A contract is a legally binding document between two or more parties. An agreement is by definition only a mutual consensus, one is morally or ethically bound, but not legaly. a contract is a kind of commitment, but they are not the same thing unless you mean they are kind of synanoms (SP?). I do not understand the question because 1.) The constitution is not the only law in the U.S, you seem to believe it is, I don't understand that. 2.) I didn't see a clear question in there, but I assumed you were asking why,if the constitution allows for people to make contracts (I don't know which article deals with that, I've never come across it myself, but you seem to believe its in there, fine) why can't people make a mariage contract ? I don't think legally that this is relevant to the constitution, and I am confused about that...BUT to be clear, to my knowledge,marriage is based on religious customs,which were/are/became part of our society, now predominantly secular. Marriage is a union between two people, but it is aso a unifying and stabalizing force in society, that's why governments are interested in it. In terms of getting married there is no major religion that does not condemn homosexuality (just the way it is, true?) so to the best I can, the short answer is this, legally the constitution defines marriage as between man and woman that's the reason if that's what you mean. There is never a legal poresedent of not doing something i.e there is no legal presedent for disallowing these marriages, if they were married then there would be a presendent. | |
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xamo
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Msg: 30 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 12:15:52 PM | | just a quick point on message 26, it's true that there is no law dictating who you can love, but marriage is not love, people can obviously love who they want to that is not the issue at all. In terms of what you have adressed, yes very good point,these are very relevant legal issues,(some of them anyways,not the inshurance one) but civil union would allow for that also. The people that do believe they know how god feels about this or that, are called religious, and if you don't like the club, fine, but should we force a catholic or muslim priest to marry people thusly disobeying their own religion, I don't think so, that sounds very hypocritical to take the rights of religious freedom in the name of freedom of acceptance..... at the same time so does not letting people have their wills go uncontested etc..I don't think we'll be witnessing any beheadings any time soon, but it's good to know someone's got their eyes out. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 12:49:13 PM |
I do not understand the question because 1.) The constitution is not the only law in the U.S, you seem to believe it is, I don't understand that.
It's the supreme law of the land. Get used to it.
2.) I didn't see a clear question in there, but I assumed you were asking why,if the constitution allows for people to make contracts (I don't know which article deals with that, I've never come across it myself, but you seem to believe its in there, fine) why can't people make a mariage contract ? I don't think legally that this is relevant to the constitution, and I am confused about that...
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 12:53:55 PM | At the time the Constitution was written marriage was a covenant made between a man and a woman in the eyes of God...NOT in the eyes of the law. Civil unions (meaning, any union of two people outside a church) didn't happen all that often, if at all.
I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying it's the way it ought to be.
I AM saying that it's NOT a question of adults not being able to make a legal contract with one another since that was never a factor when the Constitution was written in the first place.
I'm a Conservative and I have NO PROBLEMS AT ALL with gay marriage. It ought to be legal and there's just no two ways about it. Government created this problem when they started taxing the event of marriage, and now Government has created quite the problem for itself.
Arguably, there ought to be a case here under the "equal protection" clause of the 14th Amendment. I would think that the problem could be rectified this way, and it would probably have to be by Constitutional amendment:
1. Any union of two human beings that occurs within a religious building or is officiated by a religious official should be deemed a religious union, with all the same rights and privileges of "marriage."
2. Any union of two human beings that occurs with a Justice of the Peace or other similarly responsible official of the government (municipal, state or federal) should be deemed a civil union and have all the same rights and privileges of "marriage." (Anyone who gets married by a JOP or other official is entering into a civil union whether they realize it or not.)
That way all the religious zealots get to keep their "marriage," and all of the same sex/different sex couples that want to get "married" can as well. They both get taxed the same, all get the same legal rights and responsibilities and also have the same property transfer rights upon death.
Theoretically, under the whole "separation of church and state" notion, that might fly since it's not "separate but equal"...technically.
Goverment created this problem and they could fix it...if they wanted to.
My $.02... | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 35 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 1:16:42 PM | I dont know if anyone has noticed, but I have been making a fool of my self on this thread for the past 20 hours.I now understand what I should have.I feel so stupid.When the constitution was writen, it was to protect the freedom of different beliefs.Some people dont approve of same sex marriages, but some do. That should be respected, as I now see.Somy opinion has changed, same sex marriages should be allowed.I opoligize for my stupidness. Will everyone forgive me?Pleeeeeeeeeeeease | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 10:36:22 PM |
How YOU "feel" about it really is NOT relevant; unless you can tell me just exactly where YOU were when He set the foundations of the Universe....?
No answer to that one? I wouldn't think so. God does NOT depend on YOUR opinion; we depend (well, clearly, "you" don't, but MOST of us do) depend upon Him.
Well dear Sir, your feelings are as irrelevant as the Gent you were talking to, or as mine.
Yes according to the bible, God despises homosexuality. I do believe those individuals that choose that kind of 'life style' are aware of what Scripture says regarding this issue.
As well as you would know if you were to pay a prostitute to do the things you feel your wife/girlfriend cannot. Yet no one is telling you not to do so, so what the hell is the difference?
Explain to me who the hell do people think they are to tell these individuals that is wrong? In due time they will have to explain this to the Almighty, but certainly not to another human being just as full of flaws. And while we are talking scripture, he does say to love every human being, does he not?
Whether you like that or not; it is immutable; it is fact. Their are a FEW Churches that allow homosexsuality as an accepted way of life (for the most part; and with few denominations excepted) see it as a way of "loving the sinner while hating the sin". Other denominations (such as "Episcopals") actually can find reason outside of Scriptures to ordain homosexuality within their leadership in the Clergy
Let's not pretend that any Organized religion is associated with God these days okay?
Not a single one lead by another human being is doing exactly as they are supposed to.
So again, humans are involved, well room for just as much error and flaws...
With all due respect to each and everyone here, we all do things that the bible says we shouldn't do, and it clearly states, that there is no degree of sin, a lie is just as bad as killing a child, now how is that different from you dissobeying him by telling even the smallest lie, such as telling your wife, "oh Baby you are not fat!" or "Your hair looks beautuiful" When you haven't even glanced at her. Do you think that God will like you better than the individuals that choose homosexuality as their life style? So as you have said:
The irony is that IF you accept Scripture as the flawless and inspired Word of God; then you must accept ALL of it; and you may NOT selectively exclude those parts that condemn those actions and activities that (some of us) prefer to call "Lifestyle".
I rest my case.
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 11:03:00 PM | None, not one paragraph of the whole document could be applied or remotely interpreted by anyone in such way to forbid two consenting adults to enter into this type of "legal contract".
Of course, you have to consider the "intelligence" of the people reading as well as interpreting its meaning according to their own beliefs. And let's not forget, very few of us can be truly objective when it comes to disagreeing with our way of thinking.  | |
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bobby7
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 38 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 11:11:03 PM | "The irony is that IF you accept Scripture as the flawless and inspired Word of God; then you must accept ALL of it; and you may NOT selectively exclude those parts that condemn those actions and activities that (some of us) prefer to call "Lifestyle". "
And, if I dont accept your nonsense, will I go to hell?...Religion is imperfect, at the very least (I'm being generous, here)..The bible is the most confusing and contradictory book I have ever read.. | |
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bobby7
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 39 | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 11:50:24 PM | The problem in this country is not gay marriages it's gay men getting married. If i offend any one sorry but this is how i feel.
two women together a lot of men dream of having. So to see two women together can be overlooked. In some eyes. But two men you got to draw the line in the sand. That's the problem.
I don't agree with it. But, who am i to say. Let them get married. If you want to put an end to it whats that thing called when the states, i think 3/4 votes are need for a ammendment to be added to the constitution. Let's put the baby to bed. And when this court overturns roe v wade.oh a post to be posted later. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/8/2006 12:12:28 AM | Ha,ha...what a thread....
As someone pointed out here...you can't get "married" ANYWHERE unless you go to the state, pay some money, and get a LICENCE.
The whole pro-creation line is a crock!
"Marriage" may have been a religious term, but once it is scantioned by the state, it cannot be exclusively used by any religious group...(seperation of church and state).
A "Civil Union" is simply a marriage performed by the state.
A "Marriage" is simply a civil union scantioned by the state.
I fail to see how religion is even remotely connected to this issue...
Unless, of course, one wants to live in a theocracy! | |
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xamo
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Msg: 42 | |
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vivid
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Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 43 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/8/2006 12:28:05 AM | I think it has to do with money. When you grant a marriage between gays, you then
have to retool the tax system; ie beneficiaries of pension plans etc. The gov't does
not want the added financial burden on the system.
The Republicans couldn't care less about the religious aspects of marriage, they
use that excuse to prevent gays from the following:
Benefits of marriage:
Access to Military Stores
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Bereavement Leave
Immigration
Insurance Breaks
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Tax Breaks
Veteran’s Discounts
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Here are a few of the state level benefits within the United States:
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Child Custody
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Certain Property Rights
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Visitation of Partner’s Children
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits
....that's a lot of coin. So long as the hetrosexuals are mindful of the
consequences of yielding these rights to gays, they also have to realize
that much of the pension plans will be depleted as the funding for these
programs NEVER considered that gays will one day be recognized as
benefactors to these programs. The cupboard will run dry!
Again, the republicans are watching the backs of the elite. | |
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xamo
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Msg: 44 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/8/2006 12:38:43 AM | No, the Supreme court, not the constitution is the law of the land, read about it. All appeals, including those that depend on an interpretation of the constitution. In the first amendment there is nothing in that quote that even remotely assumes the right of individuals to make contracts with eachother. I am not shure why that wasn't clear when you read it. These guys are simply saying that everyone has equal rights in the eyes of the government to establish/practice a religion etc.) and that the gov'thas to right to establish a church or enfringe on these rights outlined. Do you get what I'am saying ?  | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/8/2006 6:22:14 AM | they're all sworn to uphold the constitution. It's their oath of office.
If you don't understand that, then you don't get it. In fact, you've got it wrong.
The Constitution IS the law of the land. The Supreme Court's job is to create rules of litigation whereby the laws of the land are upheld; nothing more, nothing less. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/8/2006 9:54:01 AM | “A "Civil Union" is simply a marriage performed by the state.
A "Marriage" is simply a civil union scantioned by the state.
I fail to see how religion is even remotely connected to this issue...”
The only real issue is the lack of tolerance amongst the gay community. If they would just give the same tolerance to everyone else that they are demanding for themselves, there would be NO problem really. They just insist on using the word “marriage” instead of “civil union” or something equivalent. All those rights listed by vivid don’t even have anything to do with religion, so why even drag it into something that really only has to do with legal and monetary benefits. | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 47 | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/8/2006 3:53:09 PM |
Msg 20, not that the point is worth debating, but that's old testament you're quoting from....wikipidia what the new testament is about..yes,
It is from the old testament that Christianity calls homosexuality an abomination, and to bring light to the other poster's challenge to accept ALL scripture and not just the scripture we like, Leviticus also calls eating selfish an abomination, in addition to calling homosexuality an abomination. So, my challenge in return to his is why is not ALL of Leviticus observed using his example. It was to point out the pot/keetle/black syndrome I felt that post so aptly demonstrated. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/8/2006 8:41:52 PM | playinround:
I think you missed my point.
Civil Union = Marriage
Marriage = Civil Union
If it were not for the state giving you a licence, you can't be married or in a CU.
The ONLY thing any religious building can do, is AFTER the state grants a licence, and even then it is their porogative not to perform said "ceremony"
As to...
They just insist on using the word “marriage” instead of “civil union” or something equivalent.
Read Orwell's "Animal Farm"
We don't live in a society where..."all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/8/2006 8:46:37 PM | | I believe that homosexual people just want to have their life style accepted and even integrated into the rest of our society. That's a pretty tall order, just reading all of the arguements on this thread. I think that it will eventually come into play, because this is a fire that simply will never be put out. You've just got too many people behind this. Remember the Civlil Rights Movement? It started off a lot uglier than this did. You watch this puppy continue to grow with support. I think it will be a beautiful day, when the nation is imposed to accept this right that these people deserve. It will be just as great as when segregation was prohibited through federal court. (of course, attitudes will take years to change, but eventually will, too) I can't put it as well as many of you have, but I had to check in on this one. | |
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