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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:13:09 PM | | Don't get offended but you did things for her... For who's benefit? I mean really who's benefit. The answer was for you obviously. If you truly love someone you don't expect anything in return. Just means you are selfish. Don't take it the wrong way but it's true. If you really loved this girl you wouldn't be all depressed and feel used. So things didn't work out for you so you instead of looking at things negatively, how about looking at it positively. What did I learned from this? How can I do better next time with someone else? Also you did too much for her. Too much of anything isn't good in life. Too nice of a person will get used or bore people to death. To get to the gold you need to go through the trash and tribulations. You will experience many relationship failures and hurt. Then one day you will find someone special, that way you will truly cherish love. If you could get love at the first try with no emotional pains and hardships you wouldn't be cherishing it. You would be saying oh yeah I'm in love. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:45:09 PM | true love and unconditional love everyone is expect in life.but only dream.at least,i feel full lie,deceit on net.don't easy believe who said love you very much after he (she) will say what about want you pay with.
mom to child is unconditional love i agree.now i don't dare hope find true love on net,because i got more hurt for love before time.
heart pain cannot bigger than heart dead. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/5/2008 12:31:50 AM | OP I think these things are to be found and appreciated where you find 'em.
Unfortunately I've found that all the people I've had in my personal life, my mother, my ex-wife and my kids, never adopted the 'unconditional love' approach towards me. I was 'useful' during times of crisis, but the idea there's a person who needs to be cared about behind 'Mr Useful' was something none of them thought important and I was told my need for love and affection (and a bit of appreciation would have been nice) was a weakness to be exploited and belittled over. You'll see a similar message come through on some of the threads.
I won't go into gory detail but what I noticed and came to acknowledge was that the people at work and on educational courses I attended and all other kinds of places treated me the way I wanted me to be treated while the people in my personal life, and most painfully my adult children, treated me like crapola. So although it's painful I've cut all 4 of my children, my ex-wife and all other family members out of my life and I'm much happier for it.
The people I manage at work and the several thousand customers I look after tell me good things (and I do the same for them) over and over again and I feel like a much happier person.
I used to think people wanted the kind of things I want and that people I loved would automatically 'see the good' and want good things for me too. Not so.
I think you have to appreciate people who enhance your life where and when you find them, and not where you think you 'should'. It's a shame, but reality sucks a bit like that. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:10:13 AM | Think it is because "The grass is always greener" Attitude. Thats where the unconditional love went. We live in a throw away world, its too easy to find a new love/life/future now people dont bother with trying anymore. Lots dont even make the effort to get to know someone, just make an opinion and stick to it.
You see it in the forums all the time, "I am in a LTR" but they are still on a singles site, still looking, still hoping and if they say they are here to chat and make friends THEY ARE LIARS!! They are here hoping to find 'the one' . Married people scamming real singles. Scamming after money. Scamming after free meals (Knew one woman who never paid for a meal in years even at home, she always found a man to pay, wonder what happened to her).
Marriage is a joke these days, one person decides they dont like it and the courts make tons of cash out of the innocent person - how many can put their hand on their heart and say they enjoyed paying out money to the ex and their new partner, which jades a lot of people against having another normal relationship in case they get caught again.
And then there is looking for the perfect person to date in 'cyber land', is there such a person in the whole wide world, no one is perfect everyone has a flaw, its nature.
This thread has made me think for once, I didn't just bang off a reply, thanks OP.
EDIT: that is not unconditional love, you are paid to not react to their emotions hun, if you did it for free then it becomes unconditional.
EDIT: MSG: 106, you are not allowed to start new threads, you have to see when this one kicked off again and why, that is why it appears to be an old thread, :roll: | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:22:39 AM | This is an old thread and I am tired and bored so I didn't read it all.
That being said, to the origininal subject question, morals are pretty much a personal thing. What is moral to one may not be to another.
What happened to the idea of morals was society changed and society seems to rule what is moral for many people. I think throughout history 'morals' have changed repeatedly.
Unconditional love is usually something one gets from a parent, child or other family member or a very old and true friend and of course a pet. Sometimes we get that from ppl we don't even know really such as in these days, on line only friends.
In a relationship I think unconditional love should be there once a friendship is established first, otherwise, it is not a true 'romantic relationship'(saying that to differ from just friends, romance is not really the word I would chose).
To try to clarify, when looking for unconditional love in a 'romantic relationship' , I think the two people should already really like each other as they are when they first meet.
Then when they change (or not, but most people do make changes as they grow), they are more open to changing together.
Of course there are somethings that no couple can accept, what they are is up to the couple however.
That is as always my opinion. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:53:40 AM | There is no such thing as unconditional love.
Think about it:
you loving someone because they love you back, is a condition.
you loving someone because they don't hurt you, is a condition.
you loving someone because they make you feel good, is a condition.
There are situations you can think of that will always break your conditions. For example, if you love someone then they kill your whole family, take all your belongings, decapitate you, and have blatant sex with a whole circus full of other people.... I have a feeling your conditions will be broken and you will not love them.
Time is also a condition, after a certain amount of time we let go of past loves.
Although, people have different levels of how far their conditions go, and I would agree, a lot of people cut and run wayyyy too early in this day and age. Respect and Comittment are hard to find. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/5/2008 8:53:24 AM | | Silentdemon, your wrong about that. There are a shit load of people who fall in love with someone who doesnt love them back. And just an fyi, if you have ever been in love, I HIGHLY doubt that you and the woman you fell in love with fell in love at the excact same moment at the exact same time, so, that would mean you fell in love with her unconditionally wouldnt it? | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:50:27 PM | "There are a shit load of people who fall in love with someone who doesnt love them back."
You're right! They are called stalkers! 
All kidding aside, I don't think Silentdemon is wrong. Approaching your statement from a strict point of view that healthy romantic love includes emotional and physical affection, respect, nurturing, etc., I wonder if what you are describing is more an example of people who are infatuated or in complete denial.
"I HIGHLY doubt that you and the woman you fell in love with fell in love at the excact same moment at the exact same time, so, that would mean you fell in love with her unconditionally wouldnt it?"
Not necessarily. Just because the timing is not the same does not mean that the "love" was unconditional. It could mean that the conditions for that particular person were met sooner than for the other person.
When it comes to romantic relationships, I think people want unconditional love to mean that there is a condition or state that guarantees happily ever after with that special someone. Not so. Sometimes, ending a relationship is an act of unconditional love despite the pain and disappointment that can accompany it. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/6/2008 3:19:47 PM | | Think about what you just said..."conditions for that particular person were met sooner than for the other person"...Since when did falling in love with someone..unconditionally or not..Have conditions to it?...You can fall in love with someone and that person doesnt meet anything that you were previously looking for. Love is blind to your "conditions"...It happens when it happens..And more times than not, when you least expect it and there is nothing you can do about it except run away from it and that would be cowardly and foolish | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/6/2008 3:27:34 PM | It died in the mythical 1950s, back when the grass was always green, people were always nice, wives were always faithful, and the world always looked like a brand new day.
Key word being mythical.............yes the grass was green...people were nice in public (behind closed doors was another story) the wives were faithful....too damn busy not to be
and the hope was the brand new day would be different than yesterday.................. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:37:30 PM | "Since when did falling in love with someone..unconditionally or not..Have conditions to it?"
I suspect we have different ideas attached to the concept of "falling in love." Falling in love to me means the moment someone realizes that they want commit to being with one specific person. That is not something that happens out of the blue or at first sight. What happens at first sight is attraction, not love, and even that has conditions to it.
"You can fall in love with someone and that person doesnt meet anything that you were previously looking for."
I beg to differ. That person needs to be able to nurture. If that fundamental condition is not met, then you can forget about "falling in love" in the romantic sense. Think about it. Can an emotionally healthy person truly "fall in love" with someone who won't touch, kiss, or even talk to him or her?
'Love is blind to your "conditions"'
I think it is more that people are blind to "love's" conditions. I say this because people can "fall out of love," and that cannot happen unless some conditions or expectations are not met. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/7/2008 1:00:35 PM | | Christ didnt slay the beast, he needs your help, our help. He needs someone courageous enough to feel everything. Otherwise it'll be the short lived passion of sex in the city everywhere, and no more wondrous openness of heart. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/7/2008 1:26:53 PM | | its all behind some vain screen find out peoples photos photoshopped all the time and i talk to some photographers who tell me how anorexic the models and ugly faced they are before they are air****ed. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/7/2008 1:35:34 PM | Unconditional love is reserved for my children and my family. Far too many friends and lovers have disappointed me over the years to be that naive. I love my guy warts and all, but there are cerain behaviors I simply will not tolerate in anyone. If you go into a relationship expecting a woman/man to accept drug abuse, violence, lazyness or whinning then you won't be in a relationship for very long.
Far too many single people are appalled when their relationship breaks up due to long term illness, financial woes or unemployment. It might be a situation your family accepts but someone that has been dating you for a year? Unlikely.
OP you are 31 years old, are you going to allow a person you've only known 12 months determine your outlook on life? Chances are there were women that had their hearts broken by you too. We've all done that, no matter how much we did not want to. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/7/2008 9:15:16 PM | I have morals and most of the people I work with and hang around are honorable. I see a lot of what you are saying but I think it is dependant on you. I have a high moral standard if some one hangs with me they lern quick i do not put up with bull. If a person does not line up that person is not in the circle they are treated nice but never without the i do not trust you wall up.
Love is unconditional and can't be cut off but trust can be lost. Love hopes, waits, gives, understands. Love is unstoppable. Trust is. So many women have died because they trusted the guy and he killed them. With AIDS, HPV, GW, knives, bare hands, the news he does not love her... | |
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oshan
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Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 118 | |
| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/7/2008 10:11:01 PM | Unconditional Love...excellent topic!
I like what cotter has written, and to elaborate on what she has written, I would like to add that most people or at least a lot of people are not clear about what love is and/or how to do it.
Where do we learn about love? From our parent...the first caregivers we experience, and where did they learn about love...well, from their partent or caregivers....BUT, how capable were they of actually expressing love. I think that we can only give what we have received and learned to give to ourselves and others. Throughout our life experiences we learn...if we are bright enough and interested enough...what real love is.
There have been many great people who have written about the subject...how to love yourself and others. What I have learned about love is that it takes character qualities that we need to develop if we haven't had the wonderful opportunity to develop them as we grew up as a child. These character qualities include patience, honesty, respect, compassion, generosity, integrity, honour, dignity, courage (many different types of courage such as the courage to create, the courage to express one's ideas, the courage to speak the truth and risk disdain and reprimand, the courage to just be), openness, acceptance, thoughtfulness, understanding, forgiveness...and the list goes on.
Without this strength of character, one is not capable of unconditional love. I really believe that unconditional is the only kind of love there is. We either love someone...or we don't. We are either capable of loving...or we are not. Many people think they are capable of loving another person but the truth is they don't have the courage to love themselves, let alone anyone else. To love freely, we abandon all fear, and we jump into the abyss without a net...completely trusting in our own strength and ability to love. There is nothing more powerful in the Universe than that. But, not many are willing to give up the fear and take the plunge. Too many start out with the intention, but then the little things their partner does starts to 'get on their nerves', and that is fear sabataging the love...that is all about the ego trying to destroy the love, because unconditonal love is ego free.
I think we need to be conscious of how important it is to work on building character strength...together. Two partners who understand this and help each other develop these qualities in an honest, open, supportive manner will reap the rewards of unconditional love to share together.
Unconditional love is not some elusive concept that is impossible to achieve. No, it is a very real and powerful energy of which our true essence is comprised, and it is our job to harness that powerful energy and bring it through our personality and see how our lives will change. To do this, we need to become students of love. Unconditional love is, to me, an art form that must be studied and practiced and understood, and then applied in our lives. Initially, this will take alot of work and practice, but there is nothing more rewarding and nothing more necessary than to do this work.
We are born with the ability to love unconditionally, but we are born into a world that instills fear....a world of people who have forgotten who they are. The whole process of becoming a loving human being is really a process of remembering who we are...which is pure love. Also, what we focus on will manifest in our lives, so if we focus on love and study it and work at understanding what this means, we will create more and more of it in our lives...this is the law of attraction. What we focus on get bigger and more abundant. So, don't focus on the whole idea that the world and people are immoral and selfish....that is only true if you choose to believe it. Choose what you want to create in your life, and focus your energy on that because it is your own energy that creates your life experiences...your thought patterns, your positive or negative attitudes, your choices. Choose wisely!
This is just my own opinion on the subject, and I wish you all unconditional love in great abundance! | |
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oshan
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Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 119 | |
| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/7/2008 10:24:42 PM | | Degostyle, I like what you have written that to run away from love is cowardly and foolish! Bravo! That is so true, and there are so many people who do that, and there are so many ways that people will sabatage the love that they have because "...they know not what they do." We have to be very conscious of what we are doing, and very aware of how our egos might work to destroy the very precious love that exists. Maintaining unconditional love takes tremendous courage and strength...and awareness, but it can be done if two people are working together to ensure their success in building a relationship based on unconditional love. It always take two to create and maintain it. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/7/2008 11:37:59 PM | | Real people are RARE... finding somone who love you for you...RARE... forever..? RARE... hey maybe thats why im single? lol I find it difficult to let anyone really in to see who i am.. most guys just want one thing... and im sooooooo not that girl.. i've tried settling for *less* in the past... it isn't working.. i want what all those country songs are about... lol... is a difficult task.. but.. thats what i want.. and i shall get it in the end...... whenever that is... sooner.. or later.. :0) | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/8/2008 3:04:41 PM |
Silentdemon, your wrong about that. There are a shit load of people who fall in love with someone who doesnt love them back. And just an fyi, if you have ever been in love, I HIGHLY doubt that you and the woman you fell in love with fell in love at the excact same moment at the exact same time, so, that would mean you fell in love with her unconditionally wouldnt it?
Just because someone falls in love with someone else who doesn't love them back doesn't make love unconditional. It means that that persons particular conditions are not defined by the other person loving them back. I have been in love, more than once, and I have had bad break ups. Yes it was love, yes it has taken years to get past. Over time you change, and so will your partner, some changes are for good and some aren't which can make your conditional love change. There is right now a girl I love who can't love me back because of her situation, but I will freely admit a lot of it is conditional on the fact that she herself has in many ways supported me feeling that way.
As far as your statement :
I HIGHLY doubt that you and the woman you fell in love with fell in love at the excact same moment at the exact same time, so, that would mean you fell in love with her unconditionally wouldnt it?
No, it wouldn't mean I fell in love with her unconditionally. What it means is that our conditions were discovered and met or felt at different times and in different ways. No two people fall in love at exactly the same time because love is conditional. It requires self realization of the emotional worth of the other person to yourself.
I am a Psych major and have spent literally years thinking about this. Love is conditional, even if it isn't returned and you still love the person, something about them or a combination of things made you love them, which is in essence a condition. This is also why people can love again, it reflects similar conditions in other people and changes in yourself and your needs. In some sense it being conditional and not some "fated" occurence makes it even more special, as love is by no means guranteed it should be valued even more so as a person may consiously will particulars about themself to remain the same just to preserve the love you have. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/8/2008 3:12:22 PM |
Think about what you just said..."conditions for that particular person were met sooner than for the other person"...Since when did falling in love with someone..unconditionally or not..Have conditions to it?...You can fall in love with someone and that person doesnt meet anything that you were previously looking for. Love is blind to your "conditions"...It happens when it happens..And more times than not, when you least expect it and there is nothing you can do about it except run away from it and that would be cowardly and foolish
Just because you fall in love with someone with attributes that you weren't "looking for" doesn't make love unconditional either. If they are that different than what you were looking for maybe it was just they are fulfilling a part of you that you didn't even realize you were looking for. Something you buried in yourself, or came to respect about them, whatever the case it is still a condition. You will find there are situations you fall in love with someone and something happens, devastating to your conditions that destroys how you feel and look at them. One might consider marriages for decades, shattered by finding out the other person was cheating or of a differing sexual orientation, clearly these violated their perceptions of the person and their conditions, them lying broke further conditions of not being lied to and violating their trust etc. Now while this does not always end marriages, and some peoples conditions can accept that, in other cases the love is no less strong and their conditions cannot. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/8/2008 3:30:56 PM | A simple thing for you all to consider carefully, we're all here on plentyoffish, and most because we have loved before and we are currently seeking it. What happened to our former loves? Their conditions or ours were broken and so here we are, either over it or not, talking to them or not, but not unconditionally loving them if at all anymore.
Do we still pursue them even though they no longer love us?
Do we still think about them just as much although we haven't seen them for X time?
Do we feel as strongly as we once did toward them?
Do they remain by themselves in our hearts without us loving any others?
Would they want you to slave away unconditionally loving them, and if they wouldn't want that aren't you disobeying their wishes for what you want irrespective of them selfishly (not love)?
Although we may still care for them, respect them, or look fondly on them, would we still say we would do "Anything" for them...?
Love is conditional, there is no doubt, and any reason you would say you "Love" someone is one of your conditions. Respecting that Love is conditional and some people deliberately going out of their way to keep that love for you sacred and special is the highest possible form of love you can have. To knowingly restrain yourself and commit yourself to another for what *they* want because you want to for them. There is no more true love than that, and it is even stronger than the naive fairly tale unconditional love, which is robotic, fated, predestined. It is harder to choose to be with someone, regardless of hurt, regardless of pain, regardless of time and sacrifice and assess your conditions in lieu of them than it is to love selfishly and blindly for something you believe "Was meant to be." To realize you have conditions but to put as many of them aside that you can tolerate for someone you believe is worth making sacrifice for. This is why love can hurt so badly, we bend and break some of our conditions for another person, and this is why break ups with those we love hurt the worst. We realize exactly what it was we paid for them, to change who it is we would normally be and go to the edge of our conditions or further for them. | |
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| What happened to Morals, and true unconditonal love?
Posted: 7/8/2008 3:39:01 PM | Unconditional love as about 100 have already said is something between your kids, and parents. Past that it is always some sort of condition when it comes to a partner, and always has been.
The promise part, yep that flew out the window with the moment it was stated in the vows of for richer...........Then a glazed look comes over to people, and commitment for life, is just something that sounds pretty poetic.
Don't worry though, cause whether you admit it or not even you have broken a promise, or agreed to something that sounded good at the time then all of the sudden managed to forget, or meant it AT THE TIME, but things have changed...
You are surrounded by real people, just not in the sense that you are hoping for, which is a condition in and of itself.
So if you want true unconditional love, buy a dog, they will love ya and kiss ya, and miss ya the very moment you walk out the door. They will never complain that you don't feed them right, and only hope that you do take care of them. They will kiss your tears, and even lay down with you when you are in the death throws of passing a kidney stone.
People these days, are just to busy for that kind of love...
HOWEVER, don't dispare, love, real love, it is still out there, you just have to be the person YOU are looking for... Then you will find the love you want... | |
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