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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 2:06:28 AM | madamedusoir doesn't know her history well enough---gender feminists have had a serious hand in destroying the family unit more than so-called deadbeat dads (which women have often driven away) ever have. I'll stop now, to prevent a thread drift.
Stick to the topic. Melo IS right here. It's about what strong women really entail, not another tired rant about male responsibility. | |
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equus2
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Joined: 9/4/2007
Msg: 577 | |
| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 2:25:22 AM |
If some ( don't freak out guys this is not for all of you) of these guys want to feel needed, where are they when they are NEEDED to help raise the children and pay the bills? A woman left alone who has to be mother and dad and wage earner and chef and housekeeper on and on and on has no time for fun, has to be strong and naturally she becomes not so girly anymore. It is impossible to handle all this responsibility and be frivolous.
I have already stated my attraction to strong women further up the thread, but I like to comment on what you said (and like you I will qualify my remarks by saying this does apply to every woman).
In Michigan, the scenario is that if a both parents are good and both want custody, the mother gets custody. If the mother is a neglectful tramp and the father is Mr. Rogers, the mother gets custody. One of my biggest fears of having children is that if there was a divorce I would lose my children, because there is no way I would get custody. A lot men suck as fathers, but for a lot of men who want custody (I would be one of them), their children were taken from them. And for those who are going to say, well they get visitation, so do convicts. If that visitation is so adequate, why don't more women whose ex-husband want the children, give them to him.
Many women are having to carry a lot, but a lot of them also have caring (re the children) ex-husband that would have been happy to take custody of the children, but the women won't allow it. So, in at least some cases the burden and extra responsibility was chosen and actually fought for. Also, the way men in my state get screwed in regards to custody (when they want it), I am not entirely surprise when some slowly disappear. It must be difficult, even with visitation, to stay as close with your kids, when in many cases there is a new daddy in the house, and that new family unit, with his kids in it, seems to be progressing forward with him. I think, for the fathers, it is an equal amount of them going away and the court chasing them away. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 3:23:56 AM | My objective is not to draw men to me, this is not what I live for and I am not sure I really want one except as a friend. They make great friends. I have been doing fine on my own for ten years and have not dated, and I get countless emails wanting dates. I am a very happy person and wouldn't allow anyone the power over me to make me bitter. It would ruin my life. I don't need anyone to fix anything for me as I am quite capable and I have endlessly pointed out that I am not speaking to all men or women, you can't blame all for a few. There is good and bad in each gender.
I am not prejidiced, I bash everyone I am just fooling around here. But obviously I am not directing this at you as you did have the decency to be a man and stand by your wife and children.
I was responding to this lengthy bashing of women on this thread that was obviously written by very insecure persons. I have always known it to be that only a really secure man can appreciate a strong woman. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 4:32:49 AM | Most men love strong women. However the ones that have to proclaim that they are? Nah I'll pass. When you have to self label yourself rather then letting your actions show screams of over compensating.
In fact,it most often it means that they are using that label as an excuse for a bad attitude.
If you are strong, independant, intelligent or what have you. Your actions will speak volumes. Much louder then you can ever proclaim through your self labeling. | |
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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 7:24:44 AM | I wouldn't call this "strong"
YEA RIGHT! Maybe that is why so many little girls are being molested, the males haven't had a chance to rob them of their femininity yet. It is the only place left they can get an ego trip.
I call that a scorned woman. THIS........ is misandry, pure and simple.
The sad part to me is the children that have suffered for it. This is why kids are taking guns to school, doing drugs, have no plans for college or a secure future and are so angry. The family unit was torn apart and the mother is out working three jobs to make ends meet because the father is too busy starting his new life with a female half his age( ever hear of Betty Boderick), while the kids are raising themselves with no guidance
Ever hear of Stephen Baskerville? Google his name. You might feel enlightened to read his new book or some of his writings on childrens/fathers rights. This psychobable about dads being disgusting, lazy, pathetic excuses for humanity is, in itself and on its face, ludicrous and preposterous. There are parts of that rant that might apply to some men of days past, or in current times, but the neo-nazi fem's that have infiltrated our society are attempting to rewrite history and THAT RANT is a clear example. Your point about kids suffering is absolutely true, but the picture you paint is hardly accurate about why. Early on, during the advent of the "no fault divorce system" and the "best interest of the child" theorems, moms began getting custody through divorce, with no substancial reasons to support it, whereas before this tide in history, children of divorce were given to the father because it was viewed that women could not support them.
As Prof. Baskerville explains, children are at greater risk in the care of their moms than when they were with their dads. And to be clear, kids of today are becoming more and more delinquent AS A RESULT OF the absence of fathers in theirs lives.
The family unit was torn apart and the mother is out working three jobs to make ends meet because the father is too busy starting his new life with a female half his age( ever hear of Betty Boderick), while the kids are raising themselves with no guidance
This little rant is just a wee bit off target. The family unit was torn apart (insert the "no-fault divorce" advent) and the states elected to run the families business. Kids were stripped of their fathers and therefore did without the guidance they would normally receive from dads. Dads were typically the disciplinarians so kids have suffered because they have been missing such a big part (HALF) of what an intact family offered. Nurturing came from mom, discipline came from dads. That's how it was. Now mom gets the kids, in most cases, cars and houses, and dads are left with an enormous bill each month. BUT THIS below ..... is BS.
And it is a documented fact that when a divorce occurs the males financial status goes up 100% while the woman's with children goes down to the poverty level.
^^^^^^^^^Pure, unadulterated BS!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's quite amusing to find someone try the bait and switch. This is preposterous. Quite the opposite is true. Men are put in the poor house or arrested if they cannot make their support payments, while moms enjoy the house and kids. I'd be glad to elaborate on how a loving, devoted divorced father was jailed after 9/11, who wasn't able to keep up his $8000 a month child support. Imagine that. In many instances, as with my own experience, women have become vicious in Courts, making false allegations and attempting to run dads out of their kids lives. Children are used as pawns so as to allow moms to exact revenge on the dads for a failed marriage. Luckily, I fought and won that battle, but it wasn't without much bloodshed. In divorce, the vast majoirty of women loose sight of their kids best interest, they talk cah cah about the kids dads and diminish his place in their lives with impunity. It's no wonder kids are using drugs, getting pregnant early, joining gangs, and so forth.
Bottom line is I've read the rants, I know the score, and most of this poppy-cock is pure and genuine misandry. The yesterdays pioneering, broad-shouldered feminist you speak of would be rolling in their graves to hear of what's happened to fatherhood , as a result of the bulldozing, selfish (NOW/NWO) femi-nazis of today. 
That disgusting comment about dads finding an ego trip through peodophilia of young girls is absolutely deplorable. And yet I read how women should not lower themselves to the level of men. THAT is low enough, a pregnant ant could crawl under it. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 8:51:57 AM | This is a dating site, and it is presumed that the vast majority of people come to this site, because they have an interest in dating or forming relationships with members of the opposite sex. It's an obvious fact, that our culture has undergone fundamental changes over the past 40 years or so, in terms of the roles of men and women, and also true that the "law of unintended consequences" has resulted in both positive and negative results, depending on one's perspective.
That being said, what positive benefit is there to people on this site, by engaging in "gender bashing", "blaming", and "scorched earth" arguments? It's not the topic, and not the point.
In terms of THIS topic, my perspective is that I truly admire women, who truly have strength, and as the father of two daughters, I am grateful for a world in which they have a greater opportunity to develop personal power, and find positive validation, in productive, emotionally healthy ways. My daughters, I believe, are both feminine, and strong, and both are very accomplished for their relative young ages.
What I have noted in these kinds of discussions, though, are men and women, who are still half, or wholly, stuck in vestiges of an old paradigm. That's not even a bad thing, if they find each other, and are dancing to the same music. Compatibility is key to a relationship "working".
My take on it is that women, who are truly strong and accomplished, don't need to find "personal power" in dysfunctional ways. 50 years ago, many women felt "powerless", and had to derive a sense of personal power and some ability to "control" their sense of vulnerability, by exercising the "power of no" sexually, and by "manipulating" men; because there weren't as many opportunities in the real world. Now, those women who are strong, don't need to "control" in a relationship, nor do they feel their whole identity is "at risk" in allowing themselves to be vulnerable in a relationship.
Similarly, men who have not arrived at their own self-identities, attempt to "validate" themselves externally, through the "fact of sex", without regard to the positive meaning and intimacy involved in the "act of sex". Those are the men who are frantic to "overcome" the "power of no", in order to feel "ok" about themselves.
Some of that is appropriate for young people, who haven't yet had a chance to discover "who" they are in the world. Most men, hopefully, move past the "conquest" model, as they become "grown ups", and hopefully, most women let go of needing to use the "power of no" as a source of "personal power" and control, by the time they are "grown ups". Some haven't, and, in an odd way, they are well suited to each other.
For me, sex is a natural part of a relationship. If a woman doesn't see it that way, or if she isn't interested in me specifically, that's fine. It's not a source of "anger" or issues. It's merely that we're incompatible. When I encounter someone, who is angry or bitter, seeking to find personal power by exercising "control", I can be compassionate for her experience, but it's not because of anything I am responsible for, and why in the world would I choose to get involved with someone, who wants to work out her "issues" by taking them out on me? | |
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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 8:59:58 AM | If a guy won't date you, he just doesn't like you. He doesn't like the way you look or your personality or your baggage or any combination of those things.
Men aren't that complicated. I think women think that men think more than men really do think about things. Women have this need to fester and worry and overthink and overrationalized every tiny single thing.
The answers are always simple. If you are morbidly obese, you could pretend that men don't like you because you are "strong" No, the simple answer is most men don't like to date overweight women. If you have three children from three different fathers, you could pretend men don't like you because you are "strong". No, the simple answer is most men don't like to date single mothers. If you are a crack head, you could pretend that men don't like you because you are "strong" No, the simple answer is most men don't like to date women going in and out of rehab and wonder if their TV will go missing one day to pay for a vial of crack.
The "strong" mantra is just shifting blame for one's own obvious deal breakers to other people so folks don't have to face themselves and their real problems.
If men don't want to date you, the reason is probably very very simple. It's just ones that most women don't want to face. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 9:26:55 AM | Ello to all... go easy on me i'm a newbie so heres what i think and it's personal opinion..
There is a difference between strong an agresssive.. some women (yes i'm female) can be aggressive in what they think and how they go about things. Where they have done things how they want for so long they have the inability to listen to another opinion or be open to other ideas. I can understand why some men would find this off putting.
Confidence is good and it can be very sexy. However if it becomes a form of control everything in life then it's a different matter....
Just a passing comment :-) | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 9:53:07 AM | Men do not date strong women because strong women are in their masculine energy. It makes the man feel like he is with a man. Why are these woman in their masculine energy? Because of weak men! Don't get mad, just read on and see why.
I am one of the "strong powerful" women. I wasn't born this way. I was created by a man. Powerful in that I had to raise my family alone and make a living, live by example as to what they should be. That means I didn't get to go do much of what I wanted to do. But I provided what my children needed. I had to do all this ALONE with them. No father. He was too busy having fun like a teenager. Yuck. You cant be that strong and then just turn into the "weak wittle female". So I had to be both feminine and masculine. (Some men are merely males. The word "Man" should only be attached to real men!)
Real men treat women well, love them, protect them, guide them, make love to them instead of just screwing them. They live a responsible life. Make good decisions. When a man starts making bad decisions, the woman starts to feel uneasy and not trust him. BOOM!!! There it is. There is no trust .
When a woman is put into a mans realm, (being both mother and father )her masculine side has to come forth in order to survive. She has no man to take care of that side of life. This is what I see happening to women. So she becomes strong. That may be why some men go for younger women. They haven't been slam dunked yet.
If a man can be masculine, nurturing and kind, supportive, with out giving up his masculinity, she will come into her "feminine side." She will gladly relinquish him back his manly position in her heart. Women really do want a real man in their lives, but we are so tired of putting up with their shit, sometimes we just give up for awhile.
There is so much narcissism in so many people now, every one is confused about their roles in life. With the help of LIBERAL teaching. LIBERALS have ruined everything. They try to take what is natural and screw it all up.
Men should protect and guide. Not go out drinking with his buddies, leaving his wife to take care of children home alone. That is most certainly NOT A LEADER. That kind of man if definately not a real man. He is but a boy. When we already have children, WHY WOULD WE WANT A NARCISSITIC, STRONG WILLED, NASTY MOUTHED, 200 LB. BOY TO DEAL WITH. No No NO. We want a man that will take us into our feminine side so we can feel like a female! Feel protected, loved, prized. We women LOVE to be feminine.
We want to feel that we both are working on the project called "raising children" instead of doing it alone while the "little man" is out pleasuring hisself either with his buddies or maybe even a bimbo!
And you men who encourage your buddy to lay bimbos or go drinking and leave his family behind, You are no man. But again as I said before, just a male, a boy. Grow up men.
(Yes, some of this irresponsible behavior can be reversed and said about women, but were talking about men today.)
So many woman have had to take on all the responsibility of life. Why is it any wonder why were have become this way? BUT YOU SIRS, have all power to change all that.
Go get some books and read. Dr Laura Schlesinger (sp) is a great place to start. She writes books on this stuff all the time. Make some changes. You will be happier, eat better food,HAVE BETTER SEX, and most of all , your wife and children will look up to you as a great leader! Walla!! You will be a real man worthy of the title MAN.
Women just do not respect men anymore. Men are reaping what they have sewn.
I could say much about women too, but we are talking about men here today.
SO MEN, QUIT BEING TODDLERS, grow up and make your woman feel like a real woman. You will definately reap the benefits!
Now you go out there and make it a great day! LOL
God Bless | |
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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 10:00:42 AM |
Children are used as pawns so as to allow moms to exact revenge on the dads for a failed marriage.
I'll forgive that remark, as, like the rest of us, you speak from your own personal experience. Let's face it, statistics are easily skewed & books are penned by someone with an agenda. The reason why kids are used isn't important, but the fact that we (men & women alike) are not above doing so speaks volumes about our own selfishness. Anyway, I'm a wimp, so, what do I know?  | |
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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 10:31:23 AM |
We also wish all women to realise that a large group of men have chose to avoid relationships and only go for sex only as a result of this new negative image of women.
Such BS...hahaha...So in other words, if the above was true...then it should follow that a POSITIVE image of women will STOP men from going for sex? lol....umm I don't think so. I think the above quote is a poor excuse to bring women down so men can get what they want...you should though speak for yourself. I still think there are nice fishes in the sea. Such perception would only come from mouths of the weak.
Half of the men on POF are illiterate or something...they don't read women's profiles and don't understand what is meant by "must not be looking for intimate encounter". Surely they should be avoiding these "headstrong" women who stand by their values? Men are visual creatures. They see a nice pic and then right away want to hook up to see if there is chemistry or they want to see if you are interested in looking for "fun times". Horny men could care less about the image of women or relationships for that matter. Relationships are too much work when they have so little time and a short attention span. | |
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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 10:52:04 AM | <<<...No objections to strong women . . Intelligence-wise . . Or . . Muscular-wise . .
I like a woman with her own opinions, ideals and ideas . . !
***
As far as " Must not be looking for Intimate Encounter " . .
' Intimacy ' is Part of any _Good_ ' Long-term Relationship ' . . | |
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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 10:54:30 AM | | Most of us have negative images of women who are prostitutes and hos, married women in affairs...yet they still attract men...so does negative image of women matter here? Not when they are interested in one thing from the get go. hahaha | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 11:02:38 AM | We want an independent woman that is totally capable of looking after herself but makes us feel like without us, she has no idea what she's doing.
"Strong" women make alot of "men" feel "weak". As the above quote shows, the only thing that "most men" have is their egos. They have to feel needed. They have to be The Best. They have to be right. They have to make the most money, etc. Once we start raising our "boys" to become "real men" and what that really means, then we won't have to have this discussion anymore.
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 11:16:01 AM | In That Case . .
I'm _Proud_ NOT to be 'Most Men' . . !!!
I have a soft side . . as well as an emotional side . .
{Which got a _Real_ Workout between the spring of '98 to the summer of '99, when I lost my Wife . . AND . . my Father . . !! }
I don't mind showing emotions . . it doesn't make me Weak . .
only that I C A R E about things . . !!! | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 11:23:43 AM | shoreviolet - I have some difficulties with your post.
All people have a need to be right and avoid being wrong.
All people have difficulty with their egos.
All people want to feel needed.
I find it worrisome that you attribute this exclusively to men. So much so that I'm a bit afraid to ask what training you would determine is necessary to turn a boy into a "real man". | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 1:08:27 PM | I do believe a strong woman knows her limitations and respects her own boundaries. A strong woman doesn't necessarily mean she has lots of "issues" but indeed has lots of "tissues" to absorb them. Strength is an inner thing and the strongest women I've known had faith. They didn't allow the toils and snares to change them. They hurt deeply because they love deeply. They know the risks in choosing to love someone and accept the consequences. Still...they jump in with both feet.
They are strong enough to love again. Yes they are wiser for it. but that doesn't mean wiser and harder, but wiser and softer.
I can only speak for m'self, when I say......love is precious. Let LOVE teach ya somethin'. From the inside out. You have to be strong enough to let go of yucky stuff in your life, because the yucky stuff can make ya weak and bitter.
Now tell me again, why men don't strong women ?
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 1:57:08 PM |
If a man can be masculine, nurturing and kind, supportive, with out giving up his masculinity, she will come into her "feminine side." She will gladly relinquish him back his manly position in her heart. Women really do want a real man in their lives,
The gender wars and finger pointing that so often take over in the fora, serve no purpose that I can see. Those words, quoted above, from musician friend, as well as similar sentiments expressed by other women, who are strong, yet still within their natures as "natural women", is the essence of what I was seeking, before I found the woman I knew, in my heart that I was seeking. | |
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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 2:10:50 PM |
Children are used as pawns so as to allow moms to exact revenge on the dads for a failed marriage (ManeRider)
I'll forgive that remark, as, like the rest of us, you speak from your own personal experience. Let's face it, statistics are easily skewed & books are penned by someone with an agenda. The reason why kids are used isn't important, but the fact that we (men & women alike) are not above doing so speaks volumes about our own selfishness. Anyway, I'm a wimp, so, what do I know? (mlsaarln )
HUH? So it's unimportant why kids are used to exact revenge in Courts? Coming from a mother of 3, I'm surprised to read of a lacking concern as to why kids are used. Considering the overwhelming imbalance as to who's using the kids (dads vs moms) I'd say women have that base covered. I wouldn't make light of that fact. And why forgive my statement? I'll forgive you make light of a dire, serious, and destructive part of our lives. Unless, of course, you've been particularly engaged in similar acts of revenge.
OT:
Strong is becoming synonymous with headstrong, or so it appears. I too believe women will "say" they're aren't getting dates because their "strong" women, when in fact, it may be many other reasons, such as overweight, having several kids, or just being bossy or overbearing about how much she needs to feel loved when she is incapable herself of showing love. | |
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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 2:49:12 PM | "Most of us have negative images of women who are prostitutes and hos, married women in affairs...yet they still attract men...so does negative image of women matter here? Not when they are interested in one thing from the get go. hahaha"
i don't have negative images of women who have sex for money. that's their choice. but respect for their personal choice and being attracted to them is another matter. if risky behavior is attractive to you ...then that's all you.
for the record, i'm attracted to easy women - but not who have lots of ***buddies. i'd want her to be easy - but only on me! btw, my personal policy is to try to be tough on myself but easy on others.
let me try to derail this train - i'm a guy who could easily fall for a headstrong woman. intelligent women are simply sexy. being headstrong is required for a quality i want more than any other in a woman: loyalty through everything and i would return the same.
chun-li, i did read your profile and all i have to say is, bubble tea? YUCK!!! =P | |
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Dug01
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Joined: 1/3/2007
Msg: 596 | |
| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 4:32:56 PM |
Strong is becoming synonymous with headstrong, or so it appears. I too believe women will "say" they're aren't getting dates because their "strong" women, when in fact, it may be many other reasons, such as overweight, having several kids, or just being bossy or overbearing about how much she needs to feel loved when she is incapable herself of showing love.
It certainly appears that way based on what we're reading in this thread as well as others. It would go a long way toward explaining why they get so angry when we point out how unattractive their negative behavior is. That's fine, they certainly don't need my approval to be negative. Lol, I find it humorous how they want equality and then demand we treat them as ladies when in reality they're getting equality. One can't have their cake and eat it too. But then what do I know?
Regards,
Dug01 | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 5:39:16 PM | Look, the only thing I don't care for is a weak, clingy woman.
If she's strong in mind, will or any other way, more power to her. I won't reject her on those grounds. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 6:33:25 PM |
The same can be said about some men putting their career first and family last.
I completely agree. If someone were to start a thread "why women don't date workaholics" that comment would be on topic, too.  | |
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| Why men don't date headstrong women...
Posted: 9/10/2007 6:53:07 PM | | The real culprit is poverty with single mothers and why kids dont do well...NOT the fact that they are single mothers....Kids of wealthy single mothers do quite well and are well adjusted for the most part...Although its ideal to have fathers and mothers coparent together | |
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