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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/2/2008 10:34:10 PM | ^^^^Oh yeah, but it's Arlo, Rock hunter, Captain Blaugh who are doing all the flaming.
Yeah, except if they are all men, chances are they're just bitter little boys who don't like being made a fool of and react with insults like the above.
My case in point.
I honestly haven't seen such vicious, malicious, and invidious post from men.
I guess it;'s time to agree to disagree. I prefer sane mentality through discussions.
Ya'll behave, now, ya hear?
(Where's my damn horse) | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/2/2008 10:36:56 PM | ^^^
um, if you had read the entire post (it wasn't THAT long was it?) you would see that I'm happy to gather up the mudballs, re-pack 'em and send 'em flying back.
And if you haven't seen vicious attacks from those guys, you haven't looked too hard. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 3:07:37 AM |
I guess what I don't get is...why does everything have to devolve into insulting the other side..nature of forums? Or is it possible to discuss important issues to us all without blaming the other gender?
You may have noticed that men haven't talked about women as a gender, but only about a certain subset of them, and we cannot call that "blaming", because their attitudes do not hurt men (how could they, since men leave them alone? ) but only to themselves. What we do is explain why we don't want them, which is a far cry from blaming or trashing them.
So it's possible to discuss issues without blame. We do it all the time. But somehow there come the gender warriors, wielding their grievings and laundry lists, and everything goes to hell. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 3:14:17 AM | any time a woman voices her opinion she is likely to be misinterpreted and have her statemetns used as ammo against her.
The same happens to men, all the time. Just look at this thread as an example. We say we want a nice, kind woman, and immediately comes somebody saying we've said we want a meek kitchen slave.
And if it bothered me what little boys thought, I would meekly retreat to my kitchen and start scrubbing the pots in silence.
So let me understand: They telling you they disagree with you equals to telling you to go back to the kitchen? I wonder why Hillary didn't use that (yeah, it's sarcasm). Anyway, it shows your mindset: you're so focused in "not going back to the kitchen", that you don't realize nobody wants you in the kitchen.
Look easyoneverything, to spew a lot of crap and then hiding behind the "I'm a woman, they are attacking me" doesn't cut the mustard anymore. Nor does to use the "little boys" shaming language. Nor the "I don't give these guys the time of the day". (BTW, why do some women think that "not giving guys the time of the day" is somehow a punishment? I'd welcome the peace and silence instead)
If you really want your opinions heard, you need to have opinions, not just quotes from some pseudo-scientific books and feminist debate manuals.
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 4:47:05 AM | (easyoneverything) From there, we’ve questioned easy’s understanding of the historical perspective, in that she seems not to know that a majority of men were needed to acquire the vote. In fact, easy has made this very point in several threads on this site, but does not feel the need to complete every historical remark with the adjunct “Oh, and by the way, thanks to all the guys who helped.”
You don't feel the need to mention the FACT that men played a large (piviotal, actually) role in granting women political and legal equality, and are instrumental in the continuing re-engineering of society to confront and overcome real (and imagined) injustices. Yet, you feel that you are obligated, somehow, to express dissatisfaction with a problem that's being solved, and to indulge in hyperbole. Fascinating, as the guy with pointy ears would say...
Arlo  | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 4:52:14 AM |
(easyoneverything) You know, what I find hysterically funny is the number of times I've posted something here that's been cribbed from some journalist or author or generally recognized MALE public figure ...
Two points leap immediately to mind:
1) Yet again, women NEED men to bolster their cases; and,
2) The phenomenon of the self-hating man (the "Stockholm Syndrome") is not unknown.
Arlo | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 4:57:21 AM |
(easyoneverything) You are somewhat new to this thread so I'll let you in on a little secret: Arlo, Rock hunter, Captain Blaugh like to flame some posters and get a rise out of them. They don't really READ my posts, they just look for the two or three words that they can string together to pretend a different meaning, and then they attack that. All three of them. It's kind of a gang mentality.
You got it all wrong. They're Crips; I'm a Blood. Why, just last night I busted a cap in CB's @$$. I expect that tonight he's gonna pay me a little visit with some of his homies...
Arlo | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 6:29:01 AM |
would see that I'm happy to gather up the mudballs, re-pack 'em and send 'em flying back.
We know. Been there, got the T-shirt to prove it.
Trouble is, some people can't do anything BUT sling mud. That's clarification for so many 'strong women' I encounter. Strong isn't a verb describing argumentative or invidious.
I"ve reallllllly got to stop feeding the trolls.  | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 8:51:08 AM | 'You don't feel the need to mention the FACT" etc.
Arlo, you have purposely left out the PIVOTAL WORD here! Of course, your argument falls apart if you include it. I said I didn't feel the need to include it as addendum to every statement one miight make about the historical imbalance. As in:
Women were restricted from owning property up until the last century, therefore, much of the world's wealth today is in the hands of men. That would be the historical significance of the imbalance today. Wealth is power, but now that women are allowed to own property and are acquiring some of that power, imbalances are starting to shift. Oh, and thanks to all the guys who voted that women can own property. Couldn't have done it without you.
Furthermore you are twisting my point beyond recognition. I simply took issue with Rock's stance that "no man alive today was guilty of these injustices." When I suggested otherwise, both you and ski told me how ridiculous I was for not realizing that. Why didn't you take issue with Rock's statement? Oh, I know why.
Yes, the problem is being addressed by many people - men and women. Pretending that it's all done now and that sociological biases several centuries old do not influence behaviour today or still have an effect is just one of the dumbest arguments anyone of either gender has ever ventured here. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 8:56:53 AM | Look Rock I'm not spewing any crap at all, I'm taking issue with the crap you are spewing about how sociology is just some made up hokey dokey science with no value and all of the world's imbalances with regard to gender are now resolved
"BTW, why do some women think that "not giving guys the time of the day" is somehow a punishment? I'd welcome the peace and silence instead"
Yeah well tough. If you want to pick a fight with someone, you don't get to shut them up after you've made outrageous and insulting remarks.
"If you really want your opinions heard, you need to have opinions, not just quotes from some pseudo-scientific books and feminist debate manuals."
Facts please. Where have I quoted pseudo scientific books and feminist debate manuals? Please return to my previous posts and cough up some physical evidence instead of spewing your misogynist hate filled crap in my direction again. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 9:01:28 AM | (easyoneverything) Look Rock I'm not spewing any crap at all, I'm taking issue ...
'member when I said, there are times when people are laughing with you, and times when they're laughing at you? Well ...
Arlo | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 9:13:38 AM |
You are somewhat new to this thread so I'll let you in on a little secret: Arlo, Rock hunter, Captain Blaugh like to flame some posters and get a rise out of them.
Mostly, I just like to react to their flames with my own sarcasm for sport. I'm completely comfortable with my femininity and count a large number of very intelligent men as good friends so I don't have the insecurity that they're used to scaring off with these little boy games.
Now, wait for it .... yep, there it is, the striking of the match - flames approaching!
Just a couple of things:
1. I love how, when the chips are down, it's best to flip to 'Victim Mode' as many women do.
2. I have NEVER flamed you. Flaming is an attack on YOU personally. That has not, nor will it ever happen.
I HAVE questioned, even attacked, your ARGUMENTS and POV, however. There is a big difference. I happen to think that you are rather intelligent and even a master debater. Your version of history may be inaccurate, but I actually admire how staunchly you defend it.
3. Using shaming language that you and so many other women use in reference to men IS flaming in my opinion.
This thread is about why men don't date self-proclaimed 'strong and independent' women. Perhaps it's time to just place you on a pedestal with a tastefully designed neon sign proclaiming, " Ladies and Gentlemen! For your edification, Exhibit A!". | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 12:09:53 PM | Women were restricted from (...)
"I" didn't do it. "I" don't need to compensate, pay or otherwise give you anything because of it. I'm sure most other men will tell you the same.
You see, you are supposed to want good men in your lives. Since by default, a "good man" wouldn't restrict you from anything, you want to make "good men" pay for what "bad men" supposedly did, and are complaining because no "good man" is getting within your avenging range. Moreover, you want men to pay not only if the do bad things to women, but because they're "not doing enough good things" for women.
Furthermore you are twisting my point beyond recognition. I simply took issue with Rock's stance that "no man alive today was guilty of these injustices." When I suggested otherwise, both you and ski told me how ridiculous I was for not realizing that. Why didn't you take issue with Rock's statement? Oh, I know why.
Perhaps because, ridiculos as it sounds, you don't make a person pay for what other person did?
Perhaps because you said "Women were restricted from owning property up until the last century", and perhaps you are not aware of it, but most men in the world weren't even alive at the onset of the last century?
Look Rock I'm not spewing any crap at all, I'm taking issue with the crap you are spewing about how sociology is just some made up hokey dokey science with no value and all of the world's imbalances with regard to gender are now resolved
You say I spew crap. I say you spew crap. About the "gender imbalance" and all that crap.... I say all the perks you have by being a woman more than balance, compensate and even surpass all the disadvantages you may have by the same reason.
Yeah well tough. If you want to pick a fight with someone, you don't get to shut them up after you've made outrageous and insulting remarks.
Read again, little girl. "I" didn't shut you up. "You" threatened with "not giving me the time of the day", as if your attention were some kind of favor to be bestowed upon us poor male peasants.
Facts please. Where have I quoted pseudo scientific books and feminist debate manuals? Please return to my previous posts and cough up some physical evidence instead of spewing your misogynist hate filled crap in my direction again.
Well, for starters,
In page 23 of the "Feminist Debate for Dummies",
"If you have no argument, call them "little boys".... check
In the same book, page 25: "If they are winning the debate, it's perfectly valid to use your condition of woman to complain that you're being attacked"....check
In page 234 of "How to be a feminist and look like you have a brain, at the same time":
"If everything else fails, call them misogynists"....check
In page 420:
"NEVER ADMIT that men have somehow done anything good for women. To do it, is accepting that they're not so bad and that their bill may someday be settled, and such a thing goes against everything feminism represents"...check.
In page 69 of "So you're a Feminist? How cute!":
"Always exaggerate every suffering of women, never mind how small, and always downplay every perk of women, never mind how big"....check
And finally, in page 88 of the same book:
"If a man disagrees with you, accuse him of wanting you barefoot, pregnant and chained to the kitchen".... check
"If nothing else works, use "you hate women". Success is guaranteed"....check
What's next: "you have a small penis"? | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 12:17:37 PM | Me too. How's your popcorn?
The behaviours of the self-proclaimed "strong" women - being overly defensive and combative - occur with both genders of course.
I do see this type of woman and I think it is based on insecurity. It is a coping strategy based on not actually feeling very strong and secure... at least that's how it occurs to me. | |
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4S
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Joined: 6/11/2008
Msg: 1417 | |
| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 12:40:38 PM |
"avoid the loud, boisterous (people), as they are a vexation to the spirit."
This I get. It's genderless. And it's not strength either. But, at times,it become a harder balance for women. No it's not fair. Tough cookies.
When I started in construction management, I unfortunately DID have more to prove. Guys had bets left and right how long Id last in the field. And it's hard to resist the temptation to be more... brassy... to fit in. But in the end, it doesnt work, at least not for me. I had to accept that there would be guys that no matter what I knew or how well I did, would still think of me as the girl (or fill if your favorite term for female crotch). And dating is just like that. No matter what Im really like, some men are going to think otherwise. Not fair. And also not my problem, so not worth disturbing my serenity over. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 12:47:21 PM |
Guys had bets left and right how long Id last in the field.
But, I'll betcha that there were at least an equal number who accepted you and even helped out once they found that you actually COULD stand on your own. | |
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4S
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Joined: 6/11/2008
Msg: 1419 | |
| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 12:58:14 PM | | Yes. There's no doubt that my first few months were rougher than they should have been- I was the first female supervisor they'd ever had. But I knew when I chose what I was doing that I going to a world where change comes slow. And over time, some of the guys who were most.... resistant... became people that I built the most mutual trust and respect with. I even got invited to join a union's apprenticeship committee. High praise, indeed, in my mind. It just takes time, and being yourself. And to accept that you cant be all things, to all people, no matter what you do. So dont let it bother you. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 1:51:30 PM | | At the risk of repeating something that's already been pointed out elsewhere on this thread, I'm often surprised that some feminists (and yes, I'm a feminist by my own definition) focus so much on the past yet fail to acknowledge that the vast majority of MEN throughout history were as much the slaves of their gender expectations as were women. Not to mention that EVERYONE except a tiny minority of elite - both men and women - lived brief, brutal, powerless lives. Just thought I'd mention that. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 1:55:39 PM | I certainly don't think today's men should be held accountable for the sins of the past ( as long as they aren't still personally committing them)..but , I would like to point out that I have a similar problem with being held accountable to what a bunch of women did 30 years agao that I had no part in,.
Or how it's been twisted today , which IMO, has affected both men and women in negative ways.....I feel I am being asked, even bludgeoned sometimes, to follow a dynamic I don't like, nor am I comfortable with ( at least in the dating end of it)...just because I am female doesn't mean I agree with radical feminisn, or radical anything..but, often, some men, on here at least, want to hold me to a standard I don't agree with. And deride me for not agreeing..I am tired of hearing "I asked for it"? I did not personally ask for any kind of equality that diminishes my natural differences. And if I had been asked..I would have said no.
My point being..no, you guys shouldnt be held accountable for the sins of the past...but, conversly..you shouldn't accuse women of being personally responsible for all the changes, especially the negative ones?
Rock Hunter: I get what you are saying..I am still trying to learn to convert what many men say on the forums into "women speak"..it's been hard...so much of what guys think is just opinions and even fun, and just being direct...I hear as insulting or hurtful...but, I'm learning...at least I don't assume it's personal anymore..lol... | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 2:15:19 PM | Zangie, its a great point and I agree with you. We should not "blame" women today for decisions made about feminism 30 years ago. Matter of fact, many of the decisions made about feminism were made by men. If you want to blame people, gotta blame everyone.
But that isn't what this is about. This is about recognizing the game we are in today, that has new rules, regardless of who made those rules or who is to blame for them....the rules have changed. I don't think you see too many men going around complaining that everything sucks and its all women's fault that it sucks therefore we are going to demand that things be a certain way for payback. Many women do this victimhood thing. Men typically do not (though that is starting to change unfortunately). Men mostly are simply trying to adapt to the new rules and keep it fair. Men may complain about the way women are acting today, but you really don't hear us too often complaining about what the feminists of yesterday have done. That is water under the bridge.
For modern women, I don't really care whether you consider yourself a feminist or not. The simple fact is that you are living in a feminized world and reaping the benefits of such, unless you are the type of woman that goes WAY out of her way to keep things old school. But frankly, if those women exist, they are one in one million. The mere act of voicing your strong opinions on this forum is evidence that you are reaping the benefits of feminism...regardless of whether you like all of feminism or how it got to be what it is today.
If you truly aren't happy with the way feminism has gone, then you have to begin to work to create large change, which will not be easy, and possibly impossible. We won't see it in our lifetime anyway. I really doubt that is what you want either.
I personally think that things are continuing to change even more for the worse. We are on a long downhill slide. New information is surfacing that little boys are failing in the school system. My understanding is that within a couple years the girls will greatly outnumber the boys in college. The reason is because the school system made so many changes to accommodate girls, that boys have been trivialized and reduced to second class citizens. The entire way that girls go about learning is different than boys. Where are the male teachers? gone. I'm not blaming women for this. Men are just as much as fault, if not more at fault for supporting these ideas and allowing it to not only get to this point, but continue to allow it to happen. We are *ALL* to blame for not recognizing the perils of messing around with mother nature and social engineering.
Men today that cow tow to women and don't stand up for themselves as men are more to blame then women for things becoming the way they have become. But these discussions are not about blame. Casting blame around will not get anyone anywhere. It won't CHANGE anything. Its simply about recognition of where we are at right now, what is happening and trying to get people to wake up and take action for the better or at the very least, play by the current rules in a way that is fair. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 3:11:46 PM | ^^^being able to do chin ups? :)
Borntoski - some good points. I have been saying that change is good and change is bad forever and things are still changing. I too, think that all these changes are screwed up the "dating" world to some degree. However, I think that realizing this could help some people instead of trying so hard to fight against something, just realize that "it is". Some things you just have to let go of.
We are *ALL* to blame for not recognizing the perils of messing around with mother nature and social engineering.
Indeed. This is akin to what I keep talking about in almost every forum. Biology. The differences between men and women. Yes, we are all people and are similar, but we are all different too.
I mean, why else do our girlfriends "get" some things and men don't? Simple, our brains are different.
It's very difficult for me to completely say that feminism is 100% great, when there are areas that suffered due to it. Or perhaps I'm still living in my parents world and it may take several decades for people to adapt? On the other side of the coin, it's very difficult for me to say that women's movement isn't 100% great, because it did allow us to live with the freedoms we do have today. Change is good, change is bad.
It's been interesting reading the salient points in this forum. | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 3:32:45 PM | | I am late with this thread..but OP I feel the EXACT same way!!! too often so called independent women who have good paying jobs dont want want to give the tie of the day to her lesser counter part..they feel "better" than those men, thinking they are too good for them..its really a turn off | |
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| Why men don't date strong women...
Posted: 7/3/2008 4:50:19 PM | the vast majority of MEN throughout history were as much the slaves of their gender expectations as were women.
I posit that they (we) still are. Women have been 'allowed' to change their social roles and do whatever they like (regardless of whether some will admit it or not). Men, on the other hand, are still simply expected to 'suck it up' , 'be a man', or whatever other tired implication that you're lacking in masculinity they feel like throwing at you, and simply accept it whatever is thrown at them. Don't like it? Be a man. Want to fight it? You must be a threatened little boy.
On the other hand, women don't like doormats.
Catch-22, if you ask me.
Oh, and Margo, Dawn, and Zangie are all still awesome. 4S gets to join that club too. So Sayeth The Man. | |
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