arri
| | Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 326 | |
| | What will Israel do?Page 14 of 18 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18) | bleepto
you are buying the party line right now. The old clerics in Iran are dead and they have been on a nice steady path towards true democracy for over 15 years now. I realize that they have been playing cowboy diplomacy, but there are lots of evidence out there that the Iranians were ready to cut support, disarm Hamas and Islamic Jihad .. and prepared to reduce Hezbollah into a socio political group in exchange for lifting sanctions and some guarantees to insure the security of palestinians in a 2 state solution back in 2003.
Also, the nuclear issues were almost settled. From all sources, the negotiations with Iran had been going very well and a deal that would have made everyone happy was eminent.
I am beginning to think that this whole nonsense with attacking Lebanon .. specially after listening to that very articulate Israeli government spokes woman on CNN ... is not about drawing the United States into a war with Iran. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 10:55:07 AM | Well a lot of the senior clerics are dead but they did name there successors and these people were indoctrinated into hating Jews and Americans. I will be the first to admit that we placed the Shah in power a predictable dictator which is what all countries do (countries that are trying to poke there noses in places and expand there influence). In my opinion Economics's drives most people to do what they do. When a nation economy is strong people are housed clothed and feed educated etc we all have less problems. You have a lot of educated Muslim in the world looking for jobs I mean here they are educated people with a menial job if a job. Not all but way to many just as there are to many Christians and Hindu's etc underemployed. as far as buying the party line you are dead wrong I make any comments here on this board or any places of my own thought. I am Catholic but I do not speak for the pope and he does not speak for me call it free will if you like. But what I see is Islam being hijacked by extremist. I have read much I have been to mosque also temple so I am a student of history and Have many people from many countries and religions as friends and associates.
The Nuclear issue is far from over in Iran. Yes they are using it as a bargaining tool I got no problem with that I do have a problem with Bush and his sanction but Clinton also held the sanctions over Iran's head truth is the Iranians did a lot of Damage by allowing the taking of the American embassy it was a mistake for the old clerics to allow it. Truth is the the American people nor it's leaders trust Iranians. Persia was an ancient empire that wants to be a major power again. They were and always will be a contour balance in the Mideast. at least the PLO was just that a Palestinian organization Yasser Arafat did not cow tow to Iran or anyone for that matter with age comes wisdom and he was wise despite is sexual orientation. With his life experience he help the palestinian cause immensely for that I give him the credit he deserves. But Hezbollah Hamas and the jihad have to go and until Lebanese and Palestinians weed out the violent factions of those organization not much will change. Is rail and Palestine should both exist and I truly believe that given the chance they could if all the countries left the two alone. But if Hezbollah and hamas and the jihad continue this stupid stuff it just keeps setting back the inevitable which is two states. You are well educated on the middle east I assume you are a Palestinian but I am wrong sometimes . You seem to be the one that is buying the party line right now. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Israel I do not believe is trying to draw anyone into there fight they can handle there own they to not need us. Syria is afraid of the israelis they should be they got there buts kicked enough already. They are enjoying this little skirmish then they can say see all you Lebanese need Syria here. I think they are being smart about it .They really do not like Iranians. What I find paradoxical is how Muslims are split along sectular lines shite vs Sunni etc much like Christians catholic vs protestants etc. How the Christians hundreds of years ago thought the same issue's die for your religion and go to heaven. PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE AND THE Muslims ARE BUYING THE SAME BULL THAT THE CRUSADERS BOUGHT HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO. OOPS CAPS ON AGAIN i AM TO TIRED TO CHANGE IT LOL. | |
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arri
| | Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 328 | |
| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 3:48:28 PM | You have made some compelling arguments and have made some very good points.
Well a lot of the senior clerics are dead but they did name there successors and these people were indoctrinated into hating Jews and Americans.
There is a thriving Jewish community in Iran that is over a 1000 years old with established rights including a reserved seat in the parliament and even the US State department agrees that the Iranian population is pro American is heavily in favor of establishing positive relations with the United States.
The Nuclear issue is far from over in Iran. Yes they are using it as a bargaining tool I got no problem with that I do have a problem with Bush and his sanction but Clinton also held the sanctions over Iran's head truth is the Iranians did a lot of Damage by allowing the taking of the American embassy it was a mistake for the old clerics to allow it.
Agreed, but all the signs were positive that an economic package was going to resolve the nuclear issue. I also appreciate and understand that the bad blood is hard to forgive and forget.
Persia was an ancient empire that wants to be a major power again.
Also agreed. But this is also the achilles heel for the Islamic clerics.
The Iranians are not very religious and associate Islam with something that was forced on them by the Arab invasion. They are very proud of their own heritage and as you know, they don’t like the Arabs very much and it is a feeling that is recipricated.
But Hezbollah Hamas and the jihad have to go and until Lebanese and Palestinians weed out the violent factions of those organization not much will change. Is rail and Palestine should both exist and I truly believe that given the chance they could if all the countries left the two alone.
Unfortunate, there is a lot of mistrust between the Palestinians and the Israelis with good reasons. That led to the election of Hamas and the strength of Hezbollah. Whether we like it or not, they are all that remains as a Palestinian government.
Israel I do not believe is trying to draw anyone into there fight they can handle there own they to not need us.
Sure. Israel is the 900lb gorilla, but they haven’t been able to nor would ever be able to handle a gorilla war that has been going on for some 60 years.
Israel believes that without Iranian support for these groups, they can win and Iran is too far and too big to do anything about. They are to my estimation trying to involve the US to stop Iran’s support for these groups.
Syria is afraid of the Israelis they should be they got there buts kicked enough already.
Not only Syria, but also Egypt and Jordan. Iraq is decimated too and Saudis are American bed buddies. No disagreement there.
I still think that Iran would be more than willing and ready to get involved in the peace negotiations. Their support for these palestinian groups comes from a decree made by Khomeini and since you are a student of history, you know that that kind of decree can not be disregarded without a proper reason.
They are morally obligated. There is really nothing in it for them and there is no sinister plan and they want to talk. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 10:29:28 PM | arri
Agreed, but all the signs were positive that an economic package was going to resolve the nuclear issue. I also appreciate and understand that the bad blood is hard to forgive and forget.
unless i missed something iran was doing nothing more than stalling and then promoted a war with isreal to divert attention away from their Nuclear program | |
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arri
| | Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 330 | |
| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 3:55:21 AM | ^^^ you missed a lot. Come up with a good source that says that instead of what the TV experts are saying on CNN after the bombing of Lebanon started.
Besides, why would they care. Iran has China and Russia in their pockets and UN has no balls with 2 members with vetoes. Even after the bombing started, Russia doesn't agree with the language of the security council draft  | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 8:32:25 AM |
What percentage of the GNP of the USA is based on munitions & armaments, and their export? Care to share some numbers with us? I'd love to know
Oops - lost this thread...
The numbers fluctuate - but the average rests around 40%.
http://www.cdi.org/friendlyversion/printversion.cfm?documentID=486
or, something more recent:
http://worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/wawjune2005.html | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 8:43:28 AM |
just what in the hell do you think the Hezbollah is doing to there children.
That was my point. Teaching children behavior that results in the deaths of many, which is contemptible. - no matter who you are. Whether it's Canadians, Americans, Israelis or Hezbollah...
No doubt every warring country has "autographed" missiles...that doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't make it humane. Delighting in the deaths and destruction of others is twisted, imo.
We abuse children on a daily basis - and are oblivious to it...
Those pictures tell a story. And that story is appalling. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 9:22:45 AM | No doubt every warring country has "autographed" missiles...that doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't make it humane
do you really believe someone can read the "aotogrtaphed" missiles after they explode.
this practice was made popular during other wars as a moral booster. those bombs don't say "find a child and kill them" | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 10:19:32 AM | Wow.... I am thinking maybe even 'anticon' has been one upmanshipped! ha! Vivid and arri seemed to have become the new (oscar winning) best spokesman for revealing the loonacy of the far lefties! Keep up the great work, guys!!
I'm gonna indulge in some blatent political incorrectness: One has to seriously wonder... when intelligently looking at, and assessing the state of things in the middle east and also countrys like aftrica.... that the new popular notion that there is no inherent differences in the capacities of differenct races.... Just Might no be so accurate??? ooooooooh, I can hear the blood dripping from the bleeding hearts allready. ha! I mean... just how much 'help' and 'time' do these people need??
I'm not neccessarily making a declaration of fact... just intelligent observation. Oh, I know...we're not supposed to even contemplate such things anymore. to hell with that kind of politically correct Nonsense. I say!
Is it just possible that the Jewish race is genetically superior to the arabs? Could it be that that is really what all this is about? If the jews are not inherently superior.... then they sure seemed to have evolved way faster!!! I'm sick of all the endless pandering and excuse making for the cultures who remain perpetually ignorant and seeped in their midevil mentalities and as a result, are unsuccessful at creating a prosperous and peaceful society! Don't they have any responsibility for this at all????????????????? According to the peaceniks its all the fault of the worlds big bullies. Come on, come up with some new stories. I say....BS. If you Leftie loosies want to wallow in your frothing white guilt.... knock yourselves out...but don't expect the rest of us to jump into that putrid stew. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 10:41:11 AM | | None of you folks have any idea of what is going to happen in the middle east. None of you all live there so dont know what things are like there. We only know what we know from the news and they tell us what they want us to hear. Who really cares what happens there. i say let them blow each other up. But the original question is what will Israel do? I will tell you what there going to do. THEY ARE GOING TO WHOOP THERE ASSES! You got a country with an actual military that is not playing around going up against some militants with rocket propelled grenades. It is like a pit bull fighting a cat. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 10:44:45 AM | Wow.... I am thinking maybe even 'anticon' has been one upmanshipped! ha! Vivid and arri seemed to have become the new (oscar winning) best spokesman for revealing the loonacy of the far lefties! Keep up the great work, guys!!
I'm gonna indulge in some blatent political incorrectness: One has to seriously wonder... when intelligently looking at, and assessing the state of things in the middle east and also countrys like aftrica.... that the new popular notion that there is no inherent differences in the capacities of differenct races.... Just Might no be so accurate??? ooooooooh, I can hear the blood dripping from the bleeding hearts allready. ha! I mean... just how much 'help' and 'time' do these people need??
I'm not neccessarily making a declaration of fact... just intelligent observation. Oh, I know...we're not supposed to even contemplate such things anymore. to hell with that kind of politically correct Nonsense. I say!
Is it just possible that the Jewish race is genetically superior to the arabs? Could it be that that is really what all this is about? If the jews are not inherently superior.... then they sure seemed to have evolved way faster!!! I'm sick of all the endless pandering and excuse making for the cultures who remain perpetually ignorant and seeped in their midevil mentalities and as a result, are unsuccessful at creating a prosperous and peaceful society! Don't they have any responsibility for this at all????????????????? According to the peaceniks its all the fault of the worlds big bullies. Come on, come up with some new stories. I say....BS. If you Leftie loosies want to wallow in your frothing white guilt.... knock yourselves out...but don't expect the rest of us to jump into that putrid stew.
I believe the races are different, but to claim one is "superior" to the other well... I'm not sure I buy into that. Each race has it's strengths and it's weaknesses, therefor each is "superior" in their own way.
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arri
| | Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 337 | |
| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 10:44:57 AM | Guys - They are the same race. Both are Semitic.
fish - Israel will not invade Lebanon. They had their ass already wooped by these guys last time they invaded Lebanon and these guys have had 6 years to prepare.
Do your research instead of just yack | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 1:01:01 PM | | Israel is already kicking there ass. They are flying in almost daily blowing everything up and now they are preparing for a ground attack. Israel has had enough and now they are gonna show Lebanon they have had enough by kicking there ass. This is why the world dislikes the U.S so much. We want to put our head in everyones business. Why worry about some war going on in Bum F*ck nowhere? Why not worry about our own people and what is going on here in the states that could be improved. Americans are paying almost 3 dollars for gas, families are struggling to pay bills and have a place to live, children in this country are starving, people are loosing there jobs to cheaper labor overseas and we worry about some people that have been fighting for thousands of years. I say let them keep there war over there and we as a country work on improving ourselves and learning how not to become like those folks over there. | |
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arri
| | Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 339 | |
| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 3:33:11 PM | ^^^ First of all ... it's the poor Lebanese civilians that are getting their asses kicked. Nobody .. neither the Israeli Air Force nor the mighty US Air Force can kill gorillas from 10000 feet with 1000lb bombs ... otherwise, Iraq war would have been over a few years ago.
In regards to the rest of your ranting ... write your congressman. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 3:53:47 PM | | Maybe u can elaborate on that, rather than just stating it? how exactly do you think Israel owes its entire existence to America?! Thats messed up, and i'll quote myself once again in saying that American's are arrogant when it comes to thinking they are the saviors of the freeworld. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 6:42:50 PM | | You have a heck of a lot of homework to do, but you are thinking and you seem to know how to have an open debate (rare). You don't understand the basics of your own country (the USA) - its history, for example. When you have done your homework, all this will be clear, I promise. You are young, you have plenty of time. It took me a heck of a long time to figure it out, and I still haven't figured it out. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 7:34:41 PM | What I am saying is the U.S as a whole needs to stay out of foreign affairs. If the U.S government wants to fix the whole world that is fine but first help out the citizens of our country. Iraq is a waste of time and the government knows they cant win that war. Anyone with at least two brain cells cant tell me that we can make a democracy over there when you have so many insurgents wanting to disrupt things and then you have so many different groups of people that want to run the country differently. The only reason that country has held together is because of our presence and slowly the country is going into a civil war. Our president is a moron. He uses this terrorism campaign of his to get what he wants. The people of this country are finally realizing he is an idiot. The only way this war in the middle east will affect us is raise gas prices like it is already doing here. And what does my age matter? I have enough common sense to know that our government is wasting its money trying to police the world before helping its own people. It is like you working to provide for your family and self but when you get paid you pay the neighbors bills first.
I have enough sense at 23 to know our government is corrupt. Politicians are being investigated, arrested. Bush has lost his mind, the republicans are saying whatever the people want to hear so they can save there own asses this november. The world laughs at us. I mean North Korea launches missiles and knows were not going to do a thing to them, Iran is developing missiles and knows we are not going to do anything. Today on yahoo news Pakistan it said Pakistan is believed to be making more missiles. The Muslim world is turning against us. Illegal immigrants are flooding our country taking our jobs, overcrowding hospitals. Now we have Condoleeza Rice who is nothing more than Bush's pupper who runs all around the world saying we need peace, we condemn this, we condemn that, Iraq is stabilizing, blah blah blah. What I am saying is enough is enough. I know nothing will change but we are spread so far all over the world which thins us out so much and really makes us very ineffective. I am waiting till the day we pull out of Iraq and that place falls apart. Look at Afghanistan, the Taliban recently took over two towns again. What are we going to do when we take over countries like Afghanistan and Iraq? Stay there forever??? Lol I dont care what anyone says our government is corrupt and a joke. If you believe Bush on tv when he says we are making progress around the world and making it a safer place then you are just as much of a moron as he is. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 7:43:30 PM | Jester1080 I absolutley 100% agree with you that Americans and our government are beyond arrogant and ignorant when it comes to trying to help the world. I would be all for the U.S helping a country like Iraq if they asked us for help and said they wanted change. But when we go around the world and try to change people and there countries into what we think it should be HINT Iraq then yes we are ignorant and imperialists. I say if they wanted change so much like Bush says they wanted then go in there and let them fight there own war and give them the weapons and ammunition plus air power they needed and let them fight for there freedom, and then pull out and leave. But I have a feeling some how we will eventually get involved someway with Israel in this war whether directly or indirectly. Here is another thing that cracks me up about our government. They have been claiming for so many years that social security is in big trouble and they dont have the money to help it out but yet they can pull 400 billion out there asses to fund two wars.  | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/26/2006 7:03:02 AM | Iluvtofish
Truth is it is in or national best interest to poke our nose in that is why we are there in Iraq that is why congress agreed it was not just bushes war. I do however agree with you are methods need vast improvements. Social security is fine right now we have been drawing from the fund to pay other debts. What we do need to do is get off oil we as Americans need to bite the built conserve energy and develop and use other forms of energy. If you follow your logic we would all be speaking German by now. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/26/2006 7:07:38 AM | Arri
Your points are well taken (at least by me) I think a lot of people posting really have no Idea what the history of the region is. I wish they made me pres I would make northern Lebanon a Christian country the rest Muslim and of course a palestinian state is long long over do. In my heart of heart I do believe the Israelies what do give a state to the palestinians but they are afraid of the other outside influences. You are so right the Iranians are not as religious as the other countries in the region. I for one find your post en lighting maybe a few more people should be open minded to your post. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/26/2006 8:27:45 AM | I see the justification for some wars such as WWII. I mean Japan attacked us and we went to war. I think America say the threat of Germany especially when they declared war on us and that war was justified. Iraq is a joke. I mean we can defeat a power like Japan in WWII, we helped defeat a massive power like Germany in WWII, but we cant even keep a country like Iraq under control? The U.S though does need to stop relying on foreign oil but that is not going to happen. The current gas crisis is to blame on OPEC. They help regulate how much oil is put on the market and they are making it to where less is produced so the prices remain high. Global demand has not tripled since the late 90's when gas was less than a dollar. And I dont believe refineries are having that much of a hard time producing gas.
The U.S is heading for a depression again. Sure this time people wont loose all there money in banks because of FDIC insurance but if you look at current conditions you can see we are heading for a depression. Some of the reasons are listed below.
1. Gas is becoming hard to afford at 3.00 or more a gallon.
2. Jobs are moving overseas.
3. Illegal immigrants are flooding our country taking our jobs at much cheaper labor.
4. Because of gas prices food, clothing, and other necessities are going up because of the incresed cost to transport these items.
5. Intrest rates are going up and being able to get a decent livable home is getting tough even with two incomes.
6. Health care is going up.
7. Unless you go into the military or have a wealthy family going to college is getting to the point of becoming hard to afford.
8. And with all these things happening jobs are cutting hours, or not giving any pay raises. My current job is moving most of its operations up north and my group is staying put but our work load will basically triple or more making our jobs damn near impossible to do and there is really nothing else out there that pays worth a damn right now. | |
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| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/26/2006 7:12:05 PM | | guess this post is dying huh. You did make some good points it just goes along with my theory of economics drives most of us. In germany people were under employed before hitler they were hungry so people flocked to him. So imagine that the unemployment in the US was around 20 % people would vote for and do about anything to feed themselfs and there children. | |
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vivid
| | Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 348 | |
| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/26/2006 7:39:36 PM | http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/armageddon.html
I'm not sure if everybody is aware of the movement of the Armageddonites, but
the first time I heard of them was about 2 years ago on PBS. There's much
on the Internet regarding this movement, but in a nutshell, many Christians
that appear to support the Jewish state are doing so for ulterior motives;
ie to provoke Armageddon. Me, I think they are a bunch of flakes who think
that by provoking hate they'll speed up Gods arrival. So, what can Israel do
when they are aware of the presence of these head cases but merely
keep watch on them.
I didn't read the link above thoroughly enough, but I'm sure there is a better
link elsewhere. That link seems a bit amatuerist and I'm not certain it'll
capture the sincerity of my post, but I just want to say that there
are Christians here on this thread that only want to provoke the Arabs/Islamists to
expedite Gods arrival - these Christians are simply EVIL. | |
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arri
| | Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 349 | |
| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/26/2006 7:53:27 PM | Anyone that thinks that GOD would give a crap about a bunch of warring primates .. residing on an average planet .. circling an average star .. one of billions of stars in a galaxy that is one of billions of galaxies .. needs to do his/her math.
Or he might just come down to get rid of the organized institutionalized religions. All of them have caused nothing but misery ... a true example of humanity's stupidity. | |
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ornry1
| | Joined: 2/21/2006
Msg: 350 | |
| What will Israel do?
Posted: 7/27/2006 1:41:24 AM | this is a good one...
when the twin towers fell in 2001, did anyone tell the US that we should think about peace talks, hell no, first of all we werent gonna listen, and second of all the world would let the US take out the trash. so why should anyone have the right to tell Israel to take it in the ass.
the Israeli government is tired of talkin, and its my personal opinion of "its about time".
we dont carry Israel as much as believed, they have our tanks, and planes, but they are manned by Israeli soldiers, everyone in Israel serves at least two years in the military, so basically the whole country can fight. Israel also has the fiercest armored division, probably in the world.
The biggest thing the US provides is restraint, we are actually protecting all of the middle east by doin so, they dont want to see Israel crossing into its borders, because if they do they know theyre fuct thats why theyre not in Iraq right now. we only see what the media wants us to see, but to know the truth, its been long over due.
If the US were to stay out Israels fight, and just watch like a big brother, Israel would level Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, and any other terrorist faction in their land, and on their way to smite Iran, they would fix the mess in Iraq as they crossed the desert.
Israel doesnt fight with a rule book, because lets face it, the terrorists dont. Israels body count is almost 10:1 per attack against their people (as per USA todays count earlier this week) they dont mess around with politics, they take care of business.
think about all the POWs/MIAs we have left behind and Israel is fighting for just two of their own missing.
its my thought that we will stay out of this one, because it will open a can of unwanted worms with the arab nations, but if we do get involved, the desert will never be the same again.
but we will have to wait and see.
God Bless America and Israel. | |
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