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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/5/2006 5:09:03 AM | | I don't agree with the courts when women withhold from a man for years the fact that he has fathered a child, and then decides that she wants to collect child support. My opinion is that if she does this, she is not entitled to any back child support. Now, having said that, it would be different if the man skipped out during the pregnancy, or if the relationship ended before she knew she was pregnant, but had spent all those years trying to locate him. I hope you asked for a paternity test! | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/5/2006 7:59:37 AM | | I'm so tired of these supposed dads that are there and then gone cause they don't want to take on the responsibly of having to support their child. I can't take it. They don't want to call and see if their child is alright or give a dollar to their well-being. They should have charges pressed against them. The woman is there all day long for their child and the man doesn't even care or see things in a mature way. I would do anything to be able to have the system put something into effect. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/5/2006 11:00:28 AM | Okay on the argument of fathers being forced to pay Retroactive Support from the time of birth I think is a little outrageous. Support should be calcualted from the time 1st requested.
So if you wait a few years to tell Dad that he is infact a dad.. then sorry you don't get any money from for the begining of that.
Now onto some comments I've read again in here. I really feel the strong need to clarify that men are not the only ones capable of being a Dead Beat Parent. Women are just as capable of leaving town, not paying support.. The whole bit. So I do take offence to the term Dead Beat Dad. Should be called Dead Beat Parent.
I still don't see how pressing charges against someone is really going to change anything. The NCP's who do not want to be involved with their children. And decide not to be there. And that also needs to be clarified. I know of plenty of NCP's who want to be with their kids, but the CP makes it hard for them to do.
Could be the CP just up and moves further away, child in tote. When times are arranged, changes them at random. There are plenty of reasons as to why a NCP would not be seeing his/her child.
But the ones who outright decide not to be involved with the child. Pressing charges is nothing more then a CP getting back at an NCP for not doing things the way they wanted them to. And do you really want to force them to be involved with child. I think one of the things people seem to forget here is that if this NCP is really an ugly person, and we force a child onto them, well the child will also learn from that person.
I mean how many women get prego, and then Prospective dad splits within a week of finding out. Or day of even. And then the woman brings the child to birth. And essentially just becomes mad that Dad dissapeared.
In some senarios women have just as much responsibility in the matter. If your prego, and you know Dad is not going to be around. Maybe you should way out choices more heavily. Stuff like Religion, Personal Feelings, all that jazz need to take a back seat. Sometimes the most parental thing you can do is give your child up for adoption to a family that can support the child.
And if your going to press charges, what kind of messag would that be sending to the kid. Your teaching them 2 different things in my mind with that simple act. 1st you teach them if you don't like a result. Go after them and make them pay. An attitude that will allow revenge to prosper.
2nd you are simply going to re-enforce for the child that Either Mom or Dad really doesn't love them. Do we want to instill that kind of belief in our children. Because they will ask where is Mom or Dad. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/5/2006 11:31:40 AM | Hey spider, how ya doing...
How about this angle?
If one parent has to force the other parent by means of the judical system to pay...
Maybe this teaches the child one of the most important lessons in life.
**RESPONSIBILITY** Just a thought.
You know like when the child's not cleaning room/homework/feeding pet etc and then Mom/Dad (as the courts) make them do it... Just a thought, guess depends on how you deal with the situation.
In Maryland Retroactive Support starts from date filed. Now if it's the courts slow a@s taking a year or two, or the parent hiding for 5 years, to get to COURT..... Well ...
Either way it starts at the date filed, and in Maryland they will go after you until the day you die.,,,,example...
Had a guy 55 wanting to work for me , and could not get his licence because he was still behind. Something like 20K plus... His Daughter's were 25 and 27. He was paying like 1K here and there, because he was still under a court order and could still be put in jail.
Oh the licence??? Md takes them away when you get behind and are not paying ANYTHING...NOW THAT'S PLANE Stupid
BDJ | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/5/2006 12:09:34 PM | treemanbdj:
I agree with the idea responsibilty of paying CS. However to make it a Criminal offence make no sense. Posing sanctions on a person makes alot more sense. In some cases though I do think they take it a little far.
I mean look at say a truck driver. He relies on his License to make a living. To pull his license would do neither him, or the child any good. He would not be able to support himself anymore, so how could he be expected to support a child with no income.
And jailing someone for non-compliance makes even less sense as well.. You have taken them out the working world, and made it so they are no longer able to make any money. Now I know alot of these sorts of thing for the most part are usually done only in extreme circumstances. But still makes little logical sense sometimes..
I would rather garnishments, leans, and other sorts of punitive damages laid on a NCP who refuses to pay. And I think that really needs to be identified as well... Sometimes an NCP doesn't pay support for a period of time due to circumstances beyond his/her control.
I mean if the person is laid off... Suffers an injury... a whole lot of reasons can be foud here. And trying to get support reduced is alot harder to do then you would think. I mean I know here in Canada a friend of mine had a similar situation, he injured his back and was on Compo for close 2 years going through rigorous therapy. He approached his EX and explain to her the situation and that his income has dropped from 5K a month to roughly 2.5K a month. Almost half, and was hoping they could figure something out between them.
She essentially told him off, and said she had an order, to bad so sad... So he approached a Lawyer for help. Took him 9months to get it settled. Did have his support reduced by 800 a month, which did help him alot. But during the process, He is still liable for the orginal support payments... So now his in arreard 800-900 a month for 9 months... not alot in comparsion of other people I know... But still in arrears for reasons beyond his control.
In some ways the determination of CS needs to done in a different way. I think it should be tied directly to an NCP's income. And should never exceed 20% of his/her Take Home Pay. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/5/2006 12:45:07 PM | The only time it makes sense to jail a NCP for non-payment is if it is a work release type program. They work, but they spend the night at the jail. Would I want to see this happen to my ex? Part of me says yes, because he voluntarily quit his job to follow his wife to AIT for nine weeks. Now, if he had stayed where he was for the nine weeks, and THEN, after she got her permanent duty station, he couldn't find a job, it would be different. The part of me that says no, however, says that because I know how hard it was on my son not being able to talk to him during the year plus that he was in rehab for his addictions.
I wonder how many non-paying parents on SSI realize that SSI will also pay your child support. It did for my ex-brother-in-law, at least. Even paid for his step-daughter after he and her mother got a divorce. I don't know about regular disability, or how things work in Canada, but SSI would help those who WANT to pay but CAN'T due to disability.
As far as the idiot who made the comment about women keeping their legs closed, it takes two...I could make a rude comment about men as well as you did about women, but I was raised better than that. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/5/2006 7:01:47 PM | I so agree with you .......
I am a lady and get so tired of hearing about DEAT BEAT DADS. Damn, get off it ladies there are women out there that are far worst that dads. I think we do not give the dads enough credit who do take the role as dad, father, and supporter seriously. They are the ones who took the reigns when mom lefts.
So why is it that we always refer to dead beat dads....oh that is so freaking annoying and my son's father signed his rights away and the judge let him just so he wouldnt have to pay childe support.
Sorry, I just needed to get this off my chest. I think all of you out there referring to the other parent not paying etc. should start referring to them as non custodial parents or the parent who left or what ever.....give the great dads out there a break
 to all you great dads out there a big  | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/6/2006 1:26:52 PM | I have to say i agree with "jus2_shy" comepletely and things she said is true we all know that there ARE dead beat dads that are around but there is ALOT of dads who are NOT deadbeat dads and who work their ass off everyday, just make sure their baby/child has everything he/she needs and wants i mean some dads do everything in their power for their children same as us mothers but we should NOT be labled as the deadbeat dads/moms when were NOT anything like that.....
to the OP
best of luck...you have gotten alot of good advice. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/8/2006 2:38:08 PM |
perhaps some of those poor abandoned moms shouldnt have been so fast in opening their legs to the first handsome jerk they met.
That has got to be the most pigheaded, immature, arrogant, poor thought out statement yet!
Nah, the women impregnanted themselves without the man who unzipped his pants to boink the first hot chick they met.
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/8/2006 3:09:26 PM | No, it's not. We all agree on the responsibility of the male part of the mess. But the female part of it: Was she a mindless sheep? Was she an feeble-mind, certified idiot? Was she under hypnosis, drugs, mind-altering medication? NO.
Unless she was raped and got pregnant because of it, she has as much responsibility in the impregnation as him. The "boinker" and the "boinkee" are both to blame, and asking "why didn't she think about the consequences before WILLINGLY opening her legs" is a very valid question.
So next time you say "keep it zipped", don't complain if the answer is "keep'em closed". Goose and gander, you know. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/8/2006 4:07:08 PM | If the "boinker" and the "boinkee" are both to blame, then perhaps you should have chosen better lingo and included the males responsiblity in your statement as well. Instead of just pointing out that the "chick should have thought before opening her legs."
I agree that both are held responsible, so if thats the case, she should have thought about it before opening her legs AND he should have thought of that before unzipping.
I just saw your recent response, so Im going off that statement... | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/8/2006 7:25:02 PM | One thing to add the whole argument of Keep it Zipped, or Cross The Legs argument is the after effects if it does happen. At this point in time, women still have a choice in the matter of figuring out what to do next.
They have the ability to have an Abortion, or give the child up for adoption. Unfortantly no such avenues exsist for men.
So one thing for my Fellow Men out there.. If your not ready to have a child, either don't have Sex... Or make sure your using Fort Knox protection down there. Cause once you have released your sperm, the decision to if you will be a father a or not is pulled completly out of your hands.
One thing though, and this goes straight to the the whole topic of the Thread here. In some cases women are even more to blame for a fatherless child. I mean if you tell a guy your prego, and he splits... Never to be seen from again, is it truely fair to bring a child knowingly that Dad will never be involved?
I've heard the argument of the child didn't ask to be concieved, it's not the childs fault.. blah blah.. But when this situation is put upon you as women, I truely think that everything like Personal Feelings, Religion... whatever they may be, need to be factored out.
If you are not 100% sure you will figure out a way to raise a child on your own, then maybe an option like Adoption, or Abortion should be seriously considered. Again I'm talking about when you know full well that Dad won't be there...
Why cause yourself a lifetime of fustration over the issue, when you can solve the problem. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/9/2006 6:25:45 AM | | as much as i agree that women should consider adoption or abortion in certain situations, that's so much easier said than done spiderham. i wouldn't personally consider having an abortion and the thought of giving up a child for adoption after i've carried 9 months and given birth is inconcievable to me. these options are only for women who can truly handle the long term affects of either of those choices. i believe most women would rather keep their child(ren) and take the financial risk that's involved with that choice. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/9/2006 7:36:48 AM | I'm behind you 100% Kitty. Spider you play that out like your picking out a dress or new shoes. That is a decision that a women carries to her grave, and a lot of times thinking of it their whole life. I could never choice EITHER unless my health issues where to the point I could not take care of MYself.
I have a handfull of female friends that I have been in contact since we were kids and the few that chose abortion ,question there choice 20 years later.
I also have close friends that had to let a newborn go because it was born brain dead, 2 beautiful girls and 8 years later she still crys about it.
I believe that those are BOTH last CHOICE options.
The decisions dealing with my daughter, far out way all my daily life's chocies, even including buying a house, and where to live. That's just me.
A life is the most precious thing on the earth, and a 18 year contract at best.
I child is not a renewable resourse like a tree, or crop of corn.
We as a society need to be thinking more clearly BEFORE the dim lights/bottle of wine night and NOT 9 months later.
Just a thought
B
D
J | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/9/2006 8:05:17 AM | bad kitty; treeman
I agree, and abortion does affect a woman. I won't say it doesn't. But remember here we're talking about the best interest of the child, not our own personal feelings. I think one of the things thats lost in alot of the arguing, and bitterness, is the overall needs of the child. And I'm speaking Economically, Physically, Socially, and Mentally.
Our feelings need to be pulled out of it all... Sometimes in parenting we need to make the tough choices. And we also need to live within our means. If at the time of pregnacy you are barely able to support yourself, what makes you think it's going to be any easier with a Kid in tote.
You can have all the love in the world. But love sometimes is not enough. You can't buy milk, gas, and the other essentials with Love alone. And there is whole other argument here, about daycare.
You have a child, then your child spends more time in a Daycare so you can work, then in your care. # of hours per week I'm talking about here. Whats the point? Your not really raising your child. The daycare is. And you almost in essense become an overnight babysitter for your child.
And abortion is not the only option. There is Adoption. Bring the child to term... But ensure you are placing the child in a home where you know it will be cared for in a fashion that promises more for it then you might have to offer.
I know plenty of women who decide to go it alone. But 90% of them who do that have a decent stable form of income. And know that even without dad present they will be okay finicially.
Now I agree the best level is defence is prevention. But if prevention fails, then next line of defence needs to be taken in. Do you think that the Military uses only 1 type of defence when securing an area. No they always have a Fall Back plan just in case.
As far as being Last Choice options. I don't agree with Abortion as a form of Birth Control in any stretch of the imagination. But I also applaud the women who have made the choice, knowing full well they don't have the Capacity in whatever means to raise a child. | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 171 | |
| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/9/2006 8:53:40 AM | No "epidemic" at all...if women decided to have kids with this person, maybe they made a bad choice.
Anyhow's....some provinces have laws in place that make it impossible not to collect support, simply by registering the parent in a data base. Said parent cannot get a drivers license renewed without back support paid. We all know the punishments for no license, so it makes an awful hassel for those who DO get caught...far cheaper to pay the support. Also, the outrageous gouging by the ex has made many a man just walk away...so gov't put into place reforms for this....less than 30% of the males income can go to support, leaving him able to start a new life, usually with nothing, and makes for fairer paymentrs. Non payment is no longer an issue as far as visitation is concerned...the rights of the child to see that parent, payments or not, is paramount, and can be enforced. the police can come and forceably take the kids out of the house and turn them over to the visiting parent...and if too much problems, temporary custody can be turned over to the visiting parent, while the custodial parent cools their heels off in jail awaiting court ordered contracts to be reviewed....meaning they did NOT have the right to deny visitation. They learn, or else!
Sometimes visitation is almost impossible because of distances....so sometimes summers can be passed at the non-custodial parents home. A couple months there in lieu of every other weekend is almost the same thing. It works.
Paying for support is fine...as long as it IS used for the kids benefits. Nobody willingly pays to support the others bad habits (drug use, booze, gambling, whatever) and courts are taking these things into consideration. Example...instead of cash, paying basic phone service as support...or buying groceries....this way, both the courts and the non-custodial parent know the kids are being looked after. Even paying basic hydro....extra is paid by the custodial spouse, so that every light in the ohuse isn't left on because "they are paying for it!" This method works.
I am not saying that this is the best...but it DOES work, and is being used by the courts more and more. Using these ideas, Canadian courts have come a long ways in satisfying the needs of the children when families fall apart. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/9/2006 1:02:22 PM | ok so how about in cases where the child was wanted and accepted...you "think" that your realtionship is stable and the marriage will last...and then like an avalanche it crumbles??
In my situation with my ex it was the extra stress of children and more responsibilty that did us in. We always wanted kids...adored them and were happy to be pregnant. It wasnt until the second one has arrived that ever so slowly he drifted further and further away. I already felt like a single parent before he even left.
Do have any idea how bloody hard it is to work 10 hours a day...to make ends meet to have someone else raise your kids...I only have an hour an half a day to see them before bed for gods sake. There is no possible way to lessen my hours..its either work or starve.
Id kill to spend more time with them... so are you gonna condemn me and say you should have thought of that before you had kids with him!!! i thought we were ok...the kids were wanted...but my ex didnt have the balls to stick around and remain with me for the 'WORSE" part...
and that is something i will hate him for till I take my last dying breath.... | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/9/2006 2:31:45 PM | trikers,
In the end, your children will realize who was there for them, and who it was who made all the sacrifices. I'm going through a similiar situation with my son, although my hours aren't as long. I HAVE worked two jobs before and then come home to clean house, do laundry, etc., and this was BEFORE I filed for divorce. We struggle right now trying to make ends meet since his father quit his job about six months ago and therefore isn't paying, but we get by. At times, I'm the enemy, but then I try to keep it in mind that he, like me, is just frustrated with the situation and I'm the one there to take it out on.
Good luck to you, hang in there. You might not believe it right now, but things will get better one day. | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/9/2006 8:01:42 PM | i beg to differ with you spiderham... it's the love i have for my child that gets me up in the morning to go to work. he is my motivation. that love does, essentially, pay the bills.
the same could be said for his father. his lack of love hasn't paid a bill in over 18 years.  | |
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| What to do about the dead-beat dad eppidemic!
Posted: 8/9/2006 9:08:11 PM | whosyourkitty:
Are you saying that if you didn't have a child you would not be as motivated to work, and earn an income to be self sufficent. If thats the case, then maybe for you having a child was good way to get you to join the work force.
My point is, if you have it hard now... doing the whole trying to figure out which bill to pay this month, ext... Why would it all of the sudden become easier with a Kid in tote. Added days you have to miss work... Child Care Expense... All those sorts of things..
We need to put away our feelings... And think about the best interest of the child. End of Story... Is it fair to force a child to live in Poverty, not saying by parents choice, or if by 1 simple choice, you can pretty much ensure the child never comes to be. Or by another choice the child is placed in an environment that they will get everything they need to live a decent life. | |
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