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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 4/11/2007 11:23:35 PM | Just use your mind and read between the lines. Of coarse the corrupt and two faced will hide the evidence but if one thinks you can figure out some of what is going on like the generalities I mention. Specifics need to come from those who do more in depth research than me who care to share. But keep your mind closed to all the possibilities. You can fool some of the people all the time.
Use my mind what like my imgaination? So you are saying that you made it all up because the "corrupt and two faced" are so good at hiding their evidence? You seriously typed that and thought it was an intelligent response? "Specifics" you are the one who started this inane thread about Nazi Germany and American all I'm asking you to do is show me evidence of your claims. Evidence makes them not lies or just imaginative ideas I suppose, and if we have evidence we can all pick up the call for Justice against these "Men in Black".
My mind isn't closed it's open to examining all evidence none of which you have shown. Yeah you've been fooled by someone into believing these "tall tales", and you need to rexamine your own ideas about this because man they are paper thin at their widest. Just show me any evidence that's all why is it so hard if the stories you told are concrete fact? | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 4/12/2007 11:18:45 AM | "Use my mind what like my imgaination? So you are saying that you made it all up because the "corrupt and two faced"
No I did not make it up. I used logic to deduce certain things and backed it with facts. You on the other hand twist what I say. Then you say it is wrong with out using logic to back up your claim or any facts to support your argument and accuse the ones you argue with of doing exactly what you are doing. Typical propagandist trick.
Larissan04 on the other hand disagreed with me but made an intelligent argument based on fact and logic. Just so I don't get accused of just labeling anyone who disagrees with me as propagandist.
It is obvious itsfunycsitstru you don't care about truth but just say what ever you can think of to try and convince people to believe what you want them to so you can have a desired effect on your audience. Use fact to back up your argument and use logic gives the educated a way to dispute your position but just making cleaver remarks turns an intelligent debate into nothing more than a trade off insults and accusations.
Of coarse that is what any propagandists wants because the last thing a propagandist wants is the public to know the truth and make intelligent educated choices from that. All the propagandist wants is to manipulate their audience to act like they want by using what ever mix of lies and truth and distractions they can come up with. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 4/12/2007 11:34:09 PM | No I did not make it up. I used logic to deduce certain things and backed it with facts. You on the other hand twist what I say. Then you say it is wrong with out using logic to back up your claim or any facts to support your argument and accuse the ones you argue with of doing exactly what you are doing. Typical propagandist trick.
You didn't make it up then where is the evidence we have been doing this dance for a while and you still haven't shown me any evidence. I say it's wrong because logically the National Guard didn't "mow down hundreds", there aren't "mass graves in the bayou", and over a hundred bodies didn't was up in the Mississippi killed"execution style", also; you haven't shown me any evidence that they have happened. How is this propoganda show me some concrete evidence of these events the only thing you have shown or said is that you "heard it from a guy in New Orleans". Is this reliable? Is this really the only evidence you need to believe something? Seriously come on... that's not evidence it's hersey at best, but.... wow if that's all you need to believe something I got nothing except some beach front property in Arizona I like to sale you.
It is obvious itsfunycsitstru you don't care about truth but just say what ever you can think of to try and convince people to believe what you want them to so you can have a desired effect on your audience. Use fact to back up your argument and use logic gives the educated a way to dispute your position but just making cleaver remarks turns an intelligent debate into nothing more than a trade off insults and accusations.
I care about the truth I just want evidence of these events isn't that seeking the truth? I don't really know what to say other than back up these statements with evidence and if you have shown this evidence before then please point me to it because I must've missed it in the past 2 pages. My argument is that you were speaking out of your ass when you made the statements, "the national guard killed hundreds in New Orleans, why didn't I hear about mass graves, and hundreds of bodies washed up on the Mississippi killed execution style all during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina". Prove me wrong that you weren't speaking out of your ass by showing me some concrete evidence of these events. I would think that in the world of camera phones, and easily affordable portable video cameras somebody must have pictures of these events. How is this propoganda? I just want evidence that these statements are true.
I take issue with them because I know them to be not true if I'm wrong then show me the evidence. That's not propoganda it's the truth and sometimes the truth hurts especailly when someone calls you out on your own bullsh*t. What propaganda have I spouted other than you are wrong? I guess you are so infallible as to never be wrong so anyone who reads this thread should just take you at your word and not question it. Or maybe you just want everyone to post how you are right and that the "evil national guard slaughtered hundreds mercilessly, the thousands of unaccounted dead were dumped in the Bayou by a callous government who refused to save them, and dissenters were shot execution style by these same government agents only to be dumped in the Mississippi. Because who else would've shot people execution style if not the ominpotent American Government who can do anything it pleases with no reprisals.
Please you really expect an intelligent informed person to believe all that? And that you arrived at these conclusions through "logic" is a laughable assertion because you have no evidence to back them up if you do please show me. I was going to post this in a piffy response to one of you guys, but couldn't find the right way to do it so it might be kinda fun anyways if you want look at this its pretty good.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07
P.S. Msquared there's no reason for me to answer you directly anymore because we have moved on past Hitler's favorite color so any usefulness you might have had in this debate is over, and you only post after I do so you are just dancing to my tune. Who's programed exactly? | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 4/13/2007 7:09:04 AM | The highest patriotism is not a blind acceptance of official policy, but a love of one's country deep enough to call her to a higher standard.
George McGovern
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth.
JFK
"To point it out in logic for those with minds after five days of New Orleans looting to survive of coarse the National Guard went in and shoot looters to restore order." How else could they restore order in one day. Carry this statement I said earlier further the press said nothing about this.
Your evidence is in logic one and two just going down there and talk to locals about what happen. Your lie itsfunycsitstru for one that I said just one person told me this when I said numerous people told me this as well as you saying you went to New Orleans and the locals said said something different than what I said. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 4/14/2007 10:04:31 PM | Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth.
“over a hundred bodies didn't was up in the Mississippi killed"execution style", also; you haven't shown me any evidence that they have happened.”
You bring this up when I already said it was said by one guy and the information was not reliable. You asked who else but government agents. The story went the National Guard did shoot the law breakers in the first day or two they came in force to restore order, execution style. That would just take orders from the top and good men following orders. But if you are so interested in the truth why would you bring up what I already admitted was not reliable information because it was just from one source and not bring up what I assert is more reliable.
I already brought up what people do in martial law and shoot looters. As I said how else could the National Guard restore order so quickly.
You bring up about mass graves. Some 1800 people were reported dead. Has any one heard it reported what they did with all those dead bodies? They could not bury them in New Orleans. So what happened to them and why did none of the reporters do a story about it. Just gives credibility of what I have heard about the bodies being dumped in the river.
But no I do not expect or want people to believe what I say because I say it. I just am passing on what I have heard from locals so perhaps other will look into it and perhaps the truth will some day come out. Your accusations that I am lying or talking from my a** when I am not is bordering on liable.
For me itsfunycsitstru it is personal. I have been going to New Orleans since the 80s and have known hundreds of poor people there. So I am sure there are some rotting on the bottom of the river right now that no one will ever even know they are there. I would love to tell you what I think of your twisting what I have said with lies and distortions of what I did say. But I would be trolling and I will be nice.
Also I have been there and talked to locals and know what they said. You claiming that you did the same and then say I am just make it up I know from my perspective is an out and out lie. If you talked to so many locals as a local then they would have told you the basics at least. But then again if you just went to some tourist bars and talk to some people there they may told you any number of BS. Heck some of them may not have even been there.
Just answer these things which you have not touched. How was the city reported to be in chaos for five days and then the next day or two the National Guard comes in and every thing is in order. How else could they do this besides passing martial law which involves shooting looters and those who don’t comply with the martial law? The other thing is answer me what happen to all the bodies who did die down there. Where are they buried? Also with all our resources at our disposal why did it take five days to bring food and water into the city and start to get the people out. Why not at least air drop the food and water and the National Guard from day one? Also I did not say a callous Government as a whole. Just top management that did not do what they could to save those people. Also answer me if you don’t have answers for the previous questions then why was it not covered by the press.
My question is how long will it take for the whole truth to come out. I went over the internet and never heard so many different stories in my life. But the propagandist on all the sides put out so many lies and distortions that it is hard to sift through it all and find the truth. Seems to take fifty years when the historians report it to even get close to what really happened.
The highest patriotism is not a blind acceptance of official policy, but a love of one's country deep enough to call her to a higher standard.
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany
Posted: 4/17/2007 8:28:10 PM | Hey, "ninjasword" (rolls eyes),
Go and find some Mohawks (you can't have killed ALL of them) and ask them about how tollerant you are. And YOU dip sh*ts just elected a guy to the right of Atilla the Hun. Best keep your trap shut, snowback. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany
Posted: 4/18/2007 11:44:10 PM | Is the USA in danger of becoming as bad as Nazi Germany?
The US already is as bad as Nazi Germany, even worse in some ways...
The US has traditionally installed murderous dictators, all threw Central and South America, which has led to the death of millions in that region...Also, in South East Asia, during the "Vietnamese Holocaust" there were 4 million people exterminated from the US...Also, in the Iraq the US has spread depleted Uranium all threw the country and has been responsible for the extermination of close to "2 million"
Iraqi's via genocidal sanctions and acts of dropping radiation threw Iraq..
They say that the radiation will be at a deadly level for the next "billion years"
birth defects alone in Iraq are happening in the thousands due to the use of radiation
from the US...The US is the new world fascists...everyone knows it...even Americans do... | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany
Posted: 4/19/2007 1:37:04 PM |
The US already is as bad as Nazi Germany, even worse in some ways...
The US has traditionally installed murderous dictators, all threw Central and South America, which has led to the death of millions in that region...Also, in South East Asia, during the "Vietnamese Holocaust" there were 4 million people exterminated from the US...Also, in the Iraq the US has spread depleted Uranium all threw the country and has been responsible for the extermination of close to "2 million"
Iraqi's via genocidal sanctions and acts of dropping radiation threw Iraq..
They say that the radiation will be at a deadly level for the next "billion years"
birth defects alone in Iraq are happening in the thousands due to the use of radiation
from the US...The US is the new world fascists...everyone knows it...even Americans do...
True enough, but trying to scapegoat one country for no reason other then it's the biggest at the moment is not an act of intellectual heroics, Canook. If we really want to break down, play by play, all the rude things that have been done by people based on nationalism, the U.S. isn’t close to any western European nation.
You are falling into a classic (to be rude, “common”) misconception. The problem isn’t the United States. The U.S. doesn’t exist any more, not in any meaningful way. The country has been completely co-opted by business interests. The government here serves the same role that the clergy did in Europe of the middle ages, an administrative dumping ground for lesser sons of the nobility.
This is happening EVERYWHERE, however. Don’t be so blinded by your desire to feel better then Americans that you miss that. It happened here first because this country was the wealthiest where the largest business interests were headquartered. Don’t think for a moment that the wealthy in every country (including yours) are on the same pages as these people. Countries are yesterday’s news. Class is what we need concern ourselves with today if we don’t wish to be slaves. If all you’re interested in is feeling self-superior then you’re picking too easy a target to stand out as special.
Good luck to you up there, sorry to hear we’re enemies because you don’t like people from where I was born.
Ta... | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany
Posted: 4/19/2007 2:30:54 PM | You have it wrong, Canadians don't dislike all Americans, that would be prejudice,
my Grand Mother was born in Sanfrancisco and I have been to the US
many times...
It is your administrations and lack of protest against Bush and the other "butchers"
in the White House...That we despise... | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany
Posted: 4/19/2007 3:12:31 PM | Well, that's a major component of foreign/domestic policy here. Deliberately fan all the anti-American rhetoric they can find, show it on TV in the states on a continuous loop and presto! Everyone feels so isolated and under threat from outside here that it can lead you to the conclusion you have no where to go but to the hard-liners since everyone wants you dead now. That it was these same hardliner's fault become an ironic, but ultimately irrelevant footnote beside survival.
Clever really, and people say they do NOTHING right. Evil points for Karl Rove!
Still, it truly is a matter of class across the board, not nationality, that constitutes the underlying condition. The people we need to be worried about are above any and all nations. Their rules, they make them up, break them as they please. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany
Posted: 4/19/2007 4:13:34 PM | The United States is a house divided amongst itself and anything
built on such faulty foundations, can not stand...
There are millions and millions of good Americans...
There are millions and millions of bad Americans...
There is the rightwing America, then there is left wing America...
There is "all white" America, then " all black" America...
There is the war mongering America, then the peaceful America...
I fully recognize the ambiguity of the United States...
and Donald Trump, who is a very well known American Capitalist,
he says that, he finds in his world travels, that the bulk of the world
"hates" America, I am merely quoting an American, not a Canadian.
What a nickname for your country..."The Great Satan"....
Hmmm...looks like you guys, got some work to do...
People around the world "love" Canadians and find so many Americans
to be incredibly "arrogant" I told an American in Paris who was acting like a complete
arrogant jack ass to stop it.
I said you give all Americans a bad name and all of the English speaking people in France told me how they couldn't stand the American "arrogance" and sickening nationalism, that they bring, to other peoples countries Germans, French, Italians, and even people in England complained to me about the people of the US behaving so arrogantly in thier countries and that is beyond coincidence, i made sure people in Europe knew I was Canadian, not American, by wearing an imprint of our flag, on a t-shirt.
I don't want to be kidnapped and have my head cut off.
...lol.... | |
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| Hate is just hate and down right stupid
Posted: 4/19/2007 10:13:51 PM | People who hate find all types of ways to drag people into their hate. INSURGENT 4 YOU I hear you hating and then trying to get people to join you in your hate. You use America as your scapegoat to get others to join you in your hate and focus it on a whole group of people. That is where the problem lays. People like you who hate get in positions of power and get others to join in your hate and attack other people.
America is no where near as bad as Nazi Germany. Other countries like Iran are. People are tortured and being condition from youth to hate other cultures and want our death by what ever means necessary. That is western culture as a whole, which would include Canada. Like the Jews with Nazi Germany, Americans are the modern scapegoat of Militant Muslims and others. But then we have our people over here who scapegoat the Muslims as a whole when moderate Muslims feel their religion is about peace and equality and are not at all like the Muslims who hate.
The problem is not with masses of people. The problem is when a few people who hate and enjoy harming others get into power and get a faction of their ignorant population to join them in their hate and desire to hurt others. Those who hate use excuses why it is a good thing to hate and harm others. Underneath it is just a bunch of people hurting other people. People who hate over there and people who hate over here loving nothing more than when they can get us all to hate each other and start killing one another.
The problem is not with the corporate power structure either. The problem is with a few in the corporate power structure who abuse their power just like the problem in Islam is the few who abuse their power etc etc etc.
Some of us in all cultures try to stand up to those who abuse power and who hate. We try to support men and woman of honor who help people, who care.
I brought up about what I heard in New Orleans. But here comes someone who says Americans are spreading nuclear waste all over Iraq to kill people. That creates a smoke screen because many will say yeah right about the spreading of Nuclear waste. Then people will not believe those who are truly trying to expose actions of social injustice from those in power. My advice is to not join others in their hate of others and try to get others to join us in our peace and love. As mother Theresa said, “ The way to save the world is one person at a time.
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| Hate is just hate and down right stupid
Posted: 4/20/2007 12:22:16 AM | leif 333 says: People who
hate find all types of ways to drag people
into their hate. INSURGENT 4 YOU I hear you
hating and then trying to get people to join you in your hate.
You use America as your scapegoat to get others to join you
in your hate and focus it on a whole group of people
Dear sir: I fail to share in your twisted interpretation of my posting...
You have completely misquoted me...the only person who uses the word
"hate" is Donald Trump and yourself....Hmmmm...and your both American...
I stated that, there are millions of good Americans
and my friend, my Grand Mother was one of them...
So, if I hate all of you guys, then you are saying that I hated her...
and I assure you it was the opposite of that...
It is the level of "truth" in my posting
that made you "attempt" to divert
the true message of the utter "arrogance"
of your culture...and your self....
It is a defensive reaction in your mind..
It is to hard for you to except that,
your country is one of the most "globally"
unpopular, countries in human history....
and that has plenty to do with hate,
from your country and its people
and as for Iran, being a state that tortures people...
Well, Abu Gharib prison and Guantanamo Bay
plus the admission from George Bush of secret CIA prisons
all over the world, is strong enough evidence
that the US is well on the torture wagon, with the
rest of the Homicidal countries in the world...
When are you guys going to join the
western hemisphere and stop acting like
a rogue super power?
and i will close with a quote from a famous person:
"The security of the
United States, is not in the hands
of your Government or threatened
from Al-qaeda..the security of America lies
within the hands of the American people"...
Osama Bin Laden... | |
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| Hate is just hate and down right stupid
Posted: 4/20/2007 12:49:56 AM | We should never allow ourselves to be divided against each other. If we believe in peace and freedom, we had better be prepared to put our differences and misunderstandings aside, and fight injustice in our world. Those who blame America for all of the terrible events in history are demonstrating a short sided view of things. I hate seeing my government grow out of control, ruining people's lives are propping up brutal regimes all over the globe.
There are 13 powerful, blue blooded families that have maintained control of nearly every large institution they could get their hands on. Leading members of the Rothschild's, Morgan's, Rockefeller's, Krupp's, Warburg's, and other noble bloodline families meet at the Bilderberg conference regularly, planning world events, appointing and removing heads of state, conspiring to start and stop wars, and manipulating the world's currencies.
It is up to us to remove those politicians (the majority of them, of course) at every level, who actively push this globalist agenda. It's our responsibility to fight, in court, on juries, at the ballot box, and in the court of public opinion. Those powerful families own most of the major media outlets. All we have is this venue, the Internet. Do we have sense enough to see that there is no left or right--only right and wrong. The ruling class seeks to divide us, and if we fight amongst ourselves, they will always win, and we will always lose. | |
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| Hate is just hate and down right stupid
Posted: 4/20/2007 3:59:51 AM | To maxxoccupancy:
Easy for you to say mate, you ain't Canadian...lol...and how nice are all the Irish
and Scottish towards the English, when debating?...lol..Getting the picture?...
We 'have' to as Canadians, be the voice that breaks the unilateralism thinking of the US in North America...It is Canadian tradition and the yanks just "hate" us for it...LOL!
and we love it!!! You will find other Canadian posts taking hard shots at the Americans
don't worry their use to it...LOL! You should here some of are politicians, i am going lightly...we have been a pain in the ass to them since the confederation...
Irish and Scottish people have this type of rivalry, towards the English as well...
but push comes to shove...We stand by our neighbors and certainly are
demonstrating this in Afghanistan... | |
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| Hate is just hate and down right stupid
Posted: 4/20/2007 9:35:18 AM | "We should never allow ourselves to be divided against each other."
"Leading members of the Rothschild's, Morgan's, Rockefeller's, Krupp's, Warburg's, and other noble bloodline families meet at the Bilderberg conference regularly, planning world events, appointing and removing heads of state, conspiring to start and stop wars, and manipulating the world's currencies."
I agree. One of the ways they maintain power I believe is to keep everyone going after each other and not focus on them. It is ironic that now that a group has found a way to take over most of the world over through economic control most people don't even know who they are.
But I will say you can not blame American culture as a whole for the actions of a few. As a whole many people in America are standing up to some of the atrocities of Bush and his fellow lackeys and things are changing.
But that is one of the ways the people with the most power take the focus away from them. They get people to do their dirty work like start a war on this vague enemy terrorist so they can use the USA to go after who ever they like. That does not mean that the Militant Muslims are not a threat to western culture. But that does not also mean that extreme exploitation of poor nations that the rich do, does not have to be stopped also.
I don’t think revolution against these rich peoples institutions is the way though. For one thing that would just result in the collapse of western institutions which would result in the starvation and suffering of probably billions. Then think who would take power then. I think it would be those with the guns and that would be war lord types. That would be much worse than the rich people which are really no more than street hustlers in mansions with their lies and manipulations. The only way I see is to out compete them like Bill Gates did and then establish institutions that create policies to run their corporation or whatever like a public service and not like a bunch of street hustlers jockeying for power and trying to squeeze every cent out of everyone they can.
It is the level of "truth" in my posting that made you "attempt" to divert the true message of the utter "arrogance" of your culture...and yourself. It is a defensive reaction in your mind. It is to hard for you to except that, your country is one of the most "globally"
unpopular, countries in human history....
I apologize if I am not understanding what you mean but these do sound like words of hate for our culture to me. INSURGENT 4 YOU I know there is a lot of unpopular feelings for Americans spreading around the world because of the actions of a few. I think many people exploit this to rally people under their political agenda. Many these people get people anger at a whole culture, America and then use it to get masses of people to react out of anger and hate. Reacting out of anger and hate is never good. The Great Satan is the few that are full of hate and anger to get good people to go after good people and not after them.
I have traveled all over this culture and know Americans well. We are good people who care, try to do what is right, want people to be happy and are very spiritual in our way. We have reasons to be proud as Americans that many other people misinterpret as arrogance. Many Americans have done great things through out the world and have had a positive influence through out the world over all. But to be also fair many people love America culture throughout the world also. Go to Japan or Philippines or China for instance and you will find many people wanting to be more like us.
But that is a distraction. The people in control of the corporate power structure are a combination of what grew out of the European Royalty and the mafias they hire to do their dirty work, not America. It is really quiet brilliant what they have worked out with these mafias. Get the mafias to get the rebellious on drugs and into their gangs and mafias so those types will not become effective and find ways to challenge their power in a productive way. Mean while these mafias make billions or more and stimulate the economy and invest in the European Royalty through their banks and other ways these mafias diversify the money they make off drugs.
But our North American cultures have challenged this European Royalty power structure for hundreds of years. Quiet frankly I am a hopeless romantic and optimist. I like to think the power of good will prevail. But as long as people turn against each other, those on top can play both ends against the middle then they will maintain power. As long as people look at it as us and them, they will be against us.
But I like to think that one day those with talent who are most qualify and are honorable and caring will guide people and control resources instead of these people who inherit it and are rarely the right people to rule. The days of kings is not over, they just went under ground.
INSURGENT 4 YOU I am curious how you came about this belief that certain individuals are spreading radio active material all over Iraq. If you have any evidence please enlighten us so the right people can look into it and stop these few who would do such a thing. But I will say that perhaps we should have never gone to Iraq and we definitely should have not been there this long
But the soldier that are there are good men who are trying to do the right thing and help those people from killing one another with their age old battle of Shiite against Sunni. But I hope those people can work it out so our men and woman can come home and stopped being accused of being the bad guys when over all, the army is doing their best to do the right things. To bad the politicians are such screw ups.
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| Don't be a hater hater.
Posted: 4/20/2007 12:55:16 PM |
The problem is not with the corporate power structure either. The problem is with a few in the corporate power structure who abuse their power just like the problem in Islam is the few who abuse their power etc etc etc.
It's not? The entire system is geared to creating an aristocracy who owns everyone else. Do you really believe that Paris Hilton is your natural master? She does, and so do the rest of them. As for the other, people who claim the world is 6,000 years old and runs on magic (Muslim or christains) are deluded nit-wits who just can't accept the fact that the entire universe isn't about them. It is wanton ignorance and will kill us all if allowed to continue.
Some of us in all cultures try to stand up to those who abuse power and who hate. We try to support men and woman of honor who help people, who care.
There is only one way to stand up to those in power, take their power away from them. The system in this country is corrupted from top to bottom and can not be reformed without being torn to the ground and remade from scratch.
The closest thing we've had to an honest man in the white house was Carter and his presidency was a disaster because of it. He was elected as a knee-jerk reaction to Watergate and since he and his people didn't play the typical Washington games they were shut-out and left impudent for it. If a leader came to power in this country who had the country's (as opposed to the wealthy's) interests at heart they would be doomed to fail from minute one.
I brought up about what I heard in New Orleans. But here comes someone who says Americans are spreading nuclear waste all over Iraq to kill people. That creates a smoke screen because many will say yeah right about the spreading of Nuclear waste. Then people will not believe those who are truly trying to expose actions of social injustice from those in power.
It's a sad fact about our times (really any time but worse now do to TV) that people are so entrenched in what they WANT to believe that they will accept anything said to further their agenda, true or false. It's not just the right who do it either, Michael Moor and Al Sharpton are among the worst offenders here along side Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Rilley.
They do this because it works. Half-the people in this country think we DID find WMD's in Iraq. Legions of half-wits who want more then anything to avoid having to think for themselves. And who can blame them? It's scary out here. Trouble is, the truth will always find you and knock you up-side the head before it's done.
My advice is to not join others in their hate of others and try to get others to join us in our peace and love. As mother Theresa said, “ The way to save the world is one person at a time.
A nice thought, but it's slave talk. There are people who just need to be put down, and it's no virtue to be a sheep, whatever the crossers say. Talk of peace and love will never move those among us who think it's their birthright to use others as chattel. They need to go. | |
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| Seeing haters as foolish is not hateing
Posted: 4/20/2007 1:54:23 PM | There is only one way to stand up to those in power, take their power away from them.
Then who takes power and what prevents them from abusing power. And what is this better system you propose. Please educate me starvartist. All I see when I study the past is a cycle of either worse taking power or it just goes through a cycle where a lot of average Joe blows die in a revolution maybe some good people get into power like during the American revolution and then eventually the system becomes corrupt again.
Why tear down the system where there are peaceful ways for the right people to get into power. I will disagree. Good men do get into power and more good men are finding ways to out compete the corrupt. Other wise you might as well just say corrupt are more powerful than the honest. I believe that is just a lie the corrupt promote to create despair so honest people feel it is useless to act and try to make positive change.
But like I say, this is just what I see. If you have a superior system please enlighten us and if you have a way to get the right people into authority please share. But the way I see it, just getting people to revolt when a positive alternative is not offered is just a way to get people killed and shift power from one corrupt and power hungry people to another of the same type. I would love to hear of a way to get the socio paths out of power but the only way I see it is to educate people and support the right types.
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| Seeing haters as foolish is not hateing
Posted: 4/20/2007 10:37:33 PM | This post would be more interesting if the arguing parties knew how to use the English language, and/or took the opportunity to perform some sort of proof reading of their missives before posting them. Perhaps though it is a commentary on individuals who seek to initiate a comparison between the Nazis' and anyone else. It seems if you have no substantive argument based on fact, just throw the Nazi reference and you have trumped all debate. This is not only a fallacy of comparison, but also a complete lack of comprehension between a real Fascist / Nationalistic State and the current US government. i.e. The current debate you are embroiled in. Unless of course the secret police are now rounding up those who speak against the party in control of the government....no? Then seriously get some hard facts, that not only support your position and not "facts" of the 9/11 conspiracy mongers and UN black helicopter believers.
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany
Posted: 4/21/2007 8:41:00 AM | “This is not only a fallacy of comparison, but also a complete lack of comprehension between a real Fascist / Nationalistic State and the current US government. i.e.”
And you kcsapper are stating the fallacy of pointing to the others wrong in an argument as if that proves your argument. First of all just because some may not be as adept at the English mechanics as you does not make them wrong. Second many have gotten into facts but you obviously were not reading the post then. Third there is a place for concepts in a debate and sometimes that is enough to make a point. I know some times left brain people have a hard time understanding the last point. Fourth this is not meant to be a comparison piece between Nazi Germany and the USA though that could be included. If you read what was said it was stated that are we in danger, thus meaning we are not there yet and then I said in becoming as bad as thus saying that we may not become like Nazi Germany but perhaps become as bad as that nation in our own unique way.
I do not have the time or interest to come up with numerous example besides the broad ones right now like Bush excusing torture and other in legislator seeking uncheck powers like the one to wire tap who ever they want, and wanting to throw anyone they want into jail just by accusing them of being a terrorist.
But one fact is an example of a Muslim Pizza maker. This man had nothing to do with terrorist, always stood up vehemently against terrorism and stood up for his country, the USA. The FBI though suspected this other man that went to the same mosque as the pizza makers could be involved with the Militant Muslims. So what the FBI did was get someone to approach the pizza maker pretend that they were a Militant Muslim and then get the pizza makers to get involved in this made up activity that would have been illegal if what they said was real. They did the same to the other guy and entrapped each of them.
What the FBI did was approach a man who had no connection to any illegal activity and in all probability never would have involve himself in nothing but being a honest business man. Then the FBI entrap him and succeed in destroying his life. Not only is it clearly immoral it is stupid. There are real terrorist out there. If we use our resources to go after people that are not terrorist but we feel could be made into terrorist we waste resources that could have been used to find the people who are terrorist.
Things like this show me that there are people out there in government that if allowed to have unchecked power will do horrible things and destroy innocent lives which is really what made Nazi Germany so bad. At times our Government is evil in doing the same thing of destroying innocent lives.
kcsapper I suggest that if you are going to bring up logical fallacies you don’t use a fallacy yourself by pointing to the other wrong with out making an argument yourself. I suggest you don’t criticize others not bring up facts when you your self bring up no facts. I also suggest you don’t criticize our English and then can not even under stand what was said by are we in danger of becoming as bad as Nazi Germany and pretend it meant something besides what it actually said.
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| Seeing haters as foolish is not hateing
Posted: 4/21/2007 9:00:10 AM |
Then who takes power and what prevents them from abusing power. And what is this better system you propose. Please educate me starvartist. All I see when I study the past is a cycle of either worse taking power or it just goes through a cycle where a lot of average Joe blows die in a revolution maybe some good people get into power like during the American revolution and then eventually the system becomes corrupt again.
Obviously this is not a forum for hashing-out a detailed political system so you are baiting here but I will make a few fine points:
1) A Civil Service based political system. Limit political office to a narrowed category of people who are part of a national beaurocracy. Time-in and departmental experience standards can then be established as eligibility requirements for any given office. ALL elections could be 100% publicly funded. Media outlets being required to provide set amounts of air time since they are using a public resource--which was the original concept here though it was thrown away in practice.
These people would make a nice time in service salary and an augmentation based on office held. They would be strictly audited each and every year to assure they had NO OTHER income sources. Part of the price you pay for a position of power and influence. No one with nefarious motives would likely want to deal with such an arrangement and go elsewhere.
Numerous implementation cross-checking issues are doubtless popping into your head about this (they are in mine) but nothing unmanageable, and as I said, this is a rough concept not suited to lengthy discourse here.
2) Socialize ALL public necessities. Medicine and pharmaceutical R&D. Absolute must. There should be no profit in other people’s suffering. It is an unnecessary motivation in any case as health is its own reward here. Indeed, what are the chances of ANY disease ever being cured if selling drugs is the only motivating factor. Take “Restless Leg Syndrome”. THAT is what you get when money is the driving force behind health-care. That and a lot of homeless veterans.
I was a patient at Walter Reed for a year and what you heard on the news doesn’t scratch the surface of what’s going wrong there since running the hospital has been contracted-out. It’s much like any county hospital, in fact. The few that survive are basically worthless, not because they are staffed by inferior people but because they serve the lower classes who are of no value to people like you. They’re always more poor people to clean your toilet so what do you care if they die like flies, right?
3) Nationalize the legal system, top to bottom. In fact, THIS would fall into the category listed in #1. You become a lawyer you work for the government. You work on a rotating schedule until you are made a judge: Defend/Prosecute/Jurist. I’m not a huge fan of the jury of one’s peers concept. I’ve met many of my peers and found them to be jack-asses by and large.
This should be done by professionals who understand the law, are not going to be taken-in by theatrics and naked emotionalism by just wanting to punish SOMEONE so why not whoever has been dragged in front of them. People who understand the fact that eye-witness testimony (though charged and impressive) is VERY unreliable even when the individual in question is trying to be sincere, etc.
4) Energy production needs to be under public control. As it stands now, it is THE cause of militarism among modern states and it's turning the place we all need to live into a hell-hole. The idea of letting it reach crisis point and people will figure it out then is beyond foolish.
Why tear down the system where there are peaceful ways for the right people to get into power. I will disagree.
Because the one we have now is UTTERLY broken and protects itself against any reform. There is no way for an uncorrupted person to raise through the ranks when corruption is a requirement of advancement as it is here and now.
Good men do get into power and more good men are finding ways to out compete the corrupt. Other wise you might as well just say corrupt are more powerful than the honest. I believe that is just a lie the corrupt promote to create despair so honest people feel it is useless to act and try to make positive change.
I will just refer you back to my earlier Carter reference. This could be (and probably should be) a separate thread as we’re biting off quite a chunk here.
I would love to hear of a way to get the socio paths out of power but the only way I see it is to educate people and support the right types.
Education is now a privilege of the ruling class. What do you mean here? ONLY THEY have the chops to lead? They certainly think so. This is an empty and circular argument used to prop-up caste structures since time-immemorial. This is getting long so I will drop this now, the point I want to make here is that your flag-waving hasn’t chased away the gremlins, or demons, or whatever else the wacko-right claims is the source of our troubles. Getting-out of the middle ages (as opposed to just joining the Muslim world there) might be of some help. Worth a try. | |
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| Seeing haters as foolish is not hateing
Posted: 4/21/2007 10:22:08 AM |
This post would be more interesting if the arguing parties knew how to use the English language, and/or took the opportunity to perform some sort of proof reading of their missives before posting them.
Don't worry, if you keep at it, you will eventually master the English language. In the meantime, if you want someone to proofread your posts, finding things such as the six mistakes you made in the post I have quoted from, then just ask. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 4/21/2007 10:36:16 AM | You mean it isn't already as bad as Nazi Germany?
You can be arrested and incarcerated, without being so much as told what the charges are ............ indefinately.
Your president was recently quoted as stating that his citizens don't have the right to think for themselves ........ unless they agree with him.
Invading countries that haven't attacked for economic gain ...... yup both did that too.
Used examples of a few crazies in some ethnicity to justify attacks upon the entire community. Then use that conflict to solidify the nation and keep them too busy to look at and address the actual problems in that society. Germany chose Jews, America chose Muslims.
Ok maybe not quite as bad as Nazi Germany, but not far off. Currently seems to be worse than the McCarthy witch hunts. | |
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