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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/19/2007 11:49:20 PM | SUGGESTED VIEWING ON GOOGLE VIDEO TO ANSWER YOUR POST
AMERICA, FREEDOM TO FASCISM........ARRON RUSSO
TERROR STORM........ALEX JONES
POLICE STATE 2000.........ALEX JONES
MARSHAL LAW 911 POLICE STATE.........ALEX JONES
LOOSE CHANGE........CANT REMEMBER WHO
IN PLANE SITE........CANT REMEMBER WHO
AND MANY OTHERS......DO YOUR HOMEWORK | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/20/2007 12:14:51 AM | ""Is the US in danger of becomming as bad as Nazi Germany?""
Of course not. Free elections are proof of that as well as the constitutional law that propegates that and requires all branches of the government to perform within those parameters.
As a ludicrous example, if Bush for one moment were a dictator, instead of the Democrats taking both houses earlier this year, their more prominent leaders would have been dragged out on the floor of the Congress and their apres' torture 'confessions' to being Ql Queda agents would have read out and then, they would promply received a bullet to the back of the head.
Sides, the Jewish lobby that so many Liberals and Democrats accuse the President of being in league with wouldn't support a 'Nazi USA' for obvious reasons.  | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/20/2007 1:11:48 AM | OMG...THE AMERICAN SICKNESS HAS CREPT INTO ALBERTA!!!!
BRO PLEEEEEEEEESE TELL ME YOU WERE JUST TYIN TO FUNNY WITH YOUR POST! THAT FREE ELECTIONS THING! OMG* PACKING CANNED GOODS AND HEADING FOR MOUNTAINS* | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/20/2007 10:13:01 AM | "What you would like to see with the amendment is already accomplished with the three branches of government.'
Plain and simply wrong. I don't have the time to get into all the times the government takes individual freedom away when that freedom does not harm others but I could write books on all the laws interfering with my freedom to live as a free Christian man who celebrates individual expression and free will.
I realize many of you are content with the freedoms that have been taken from you and that it does not interfere with your life significantly. So you use it as a excuse to justify taking freedom from other people and use democracy as a excuse to harm others. Personally I do not have a worship of political systems like democracy. I believe in a higher power that determines right and wrong. I also beleive that political systems can evolve as they have in the past. If we don't change then man kind is doomed to flawed system. I can't believe that there may not be a perfect system that protects people person, property AND freedom.
So when I hear people use the excuse of democracy to hurt other people and take God given freedoms then I will say that the democracy is wrong and needs to be amended so that we have law that does not take God given freedoms and hurt someone. That si why the amendment to guarantee individual freedom as long as you don't threaten person and property.
You can use all the fancy double talk you want. What I have seen all my life is a system that at times destroys good people lives that did no wrong to any one as well as a system that tries to take freedoms from me that my higher power has let me know are my God given rights. There are many out there that feel like I do and want to change the system to be more loving and compassionate. I express it as, create laws that Jesus would pass and not man. To me Jesus is pure love so you can look at it that way. I hope some day you can join us.
In the past in Europe all sorts of democratic principle excused all sort of horrors. It is those who stood up to the wrongs of the majority that made a difference and not those that said that thats what everyone thinks so it is right.
Personally I can think on my own and know what is right and wrong without having it being told to me by a majority of people with less intelligence, creativity and wisdom than me. I agree that the masses need to be a check and balance to protect them self but the minority who is more qualified to determine what is good for people needs to be a check and balance against the ignorance of the masses.
I also do not believe in a blind acceptance of those in authority like judges. They are people and will make mistakes as well as evil people getting in authority. I am not splitting hairs. I out and out challenge your assertions of not limiting those in authority to make mistakes and of their infallibility to judge any manner. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/20/2007 6:36:19 PM | "BRO PLEEEEEEEEESE TELL ME YOU WERE JUST TYIN TO FUNNY WITH YOUR POST! THAT FREE ELECTIONS THING! OMG*"
No, I was not. Free elections are part of the democratic process in the US. In a Nazi like environment, they may only happen once - and only once. As proof, I offer the turnaround of the control of both houses and the near victory of the Democrats over the Republicans two years ago. In a dictatorship, an election would never have even been tabled and, if it had, the results would have been a resounding majority for the victor rather than a the 'squeak by' small percentage that occured there. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/22/2007 12:38:17 PM | Thats why I said it doesnt work perfect. We could both spend all day citing examples supporting it and descrediting it. And what you and I deem a violation of rights seems to be different.
If you ask people about democracy the common answer you will most likely get is that its not something to worship but a system that seems to work better then the alternatives.
Yeah the masses are usually ignorant. So whats your solution? Play big brother? How often has than been successful in a large country? Your advocating a small elite to make decisions for the majority is the same thing that the far left anti religion establishment does. Try being an advocate of better eduation.
I think you are looking for an easy answer to a hard problem. Again something that the far left does. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/22/2007 4:21:37 PM | Going back to the original premise of the OP, we are talking about the potential of the USA moving towards a state that echoes Hitler's Germany ( in some regards) .
As I've said before, the USA leans far more to the right than most other Western democracies.
We've seen clear evidence that certain news stories are not being widely reported by journalists. I've mentioned things like the East-Asia Security Act , the Iraqi government petition for withdrawal, and other examples.
This is a rather large change of direction in the modern history of America democracy. The press was always there to provide a counter balance to bad government, and we've seen that aspect of the media greatly reduced.
In a true democracy, the free press is one of the most essential elements needed for success - as is an educated electorate. If one does not know what is going on, and doesn't understand the reasons, then one cannot truly have any role in a real democracy. Informed electorates are critical.
With the Iraq war, we can certainly see that the U.S. media failed miserably. This was no accident, and is indicative of the ownership of most of U.S. media by corporate interests. The press did not question, and actually assisted in the propoganda in the rush to war.
Free elections in the USA are a bit of a myth. One is essentially given only two options when one votes in a federal election. The system in place locks any third party candidate out of contention (for all intents and purposes) .
We also have the ever present issue of race lingering in the background. It may be African-Americans, or Mexicans, or Muslims - but it's a potentially very volatile explosive situation waiting for a spark.
We have a military-industrial complex that's grown in it's size and control . It's quite a major economic force.
We have a recent total reversal of the rights of the individual, as compared to the recent historical model of the U.S., due to security concerns. Imprisonment without trial, torture, wiretapping without judicial oversight...
There is a desire to "spread" certain American political beliefs worldwide. That's essentially one of the bases of neo-con thought.
We have ( in a very real sense) an existing vision of God somehow being an American, and this has been a continual part of American politics. The country itself defines itself as the only superpower in the world.
If we are going to discuss the OP's point, we can't sit here thinking that somehow the discussion has to center on cloning Hitler's Germany. Americans are not Germans, it's not 1939 , and there is no Versailles Treaty. 
What can be said is that there are certain echoes of essential elements of that period that can be found today in the USA. There is a potential that exists to see a possible future that reminds of the past.
Imagine this scenario, in three years.
For some reason the USA suffers a massive economic meltdown, as Germany did after WW1. (Unlike Germany then, this would affect many more countries today.) In much the same way that Germany's decision to go to war (and the cost of that , and the Allies brutal post-war penalties) inflicted a horrible economic cost on the German people.
As was the case with Germany, you would have a nation with a great history and proud of it suddenly greatly weakened. People used to a certain standard of living would suddenly find themselves in poverty. The government would essentially be unable to quickly turn the situation around.
At this point, all one needs is the right (or wrong) spark - as Germany did.
All the conditions I've mentioned above exist now, and could certainly be used in essentially the same manner as Hitler used them to wind up in a nightmare scenario. All it would take is the American people being placed in a position of greatly lessened hope, and then discovering an eloquent "Messiah".
Is it possible ?
Perhaps.
That's the essential discussion here, over the potential of going in that same direction Germany did post-WW1. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany
Posted: 5/23/2007 9:16:48 AM | Out of our history of existence, the United States has been attacked twice. Once at Pearl Harbor and the second on 9/11.
Yet, we have bombed countless countries. Normally we say its to fight an evil dictator, liberate people from tyranny, things like that. We have the highest stores of nuclear weapons in the world. The highest military sophistication known to man.
Why? If we are such a peace loving country then why is our military and defense operation funded so highly?
I mean seriously, unless you were EXPECTING retribution from someone you probably wouldn't go out and get a bunch of guns of worry about survelliance. You would probably sleep good at nite and be able to use that money towards fixing your house (the country as a whole).
In Palestine, they are dying and screaming for help. It is the saddest case of modern oppression I can think of. Because we justify it by calling them terrorists. Hamas, the PLA, all terrorists right? They attacked Israel and Lebanon for no reason, right? They deserve to die or their militant, terrorist leaders should put their weapons down, right? Then there would be no war between Palestine and Israel? Right? We applaud the effort of Lebanon to "root out" the infidels, right?
Yet.....the Palestenian people are NOT allowed to bear arms, at all. There are no weapons store. No man on the corner selling guns to the people. Their rights are stripped. They do not have nuclear power. They do not have apache's or other attack planes. They do not have tanks. They do not have cluster bombs.
They have nothing that we, the glorious United States has provided Israel.
So what do you do in that situation? You can't leave the country. You can't go to Israel to set up a new life. You can not fight back in any shape fashion or form if someone comes to rape your daughter in the middle of the night. You can't publicize your struggles because the news stations are controlled by Israel.
WHAT DO YOU DO? I'm asking every last one of you that question. What the hell do you do?
You would probably try to hook up with your Arab neighbors to get some sort of weapons or fire power into Palestine. It would most likely have to be small automatic weapons or missles / rocket launchers that could be assembled quickly. You would have to be extra cautious because you know every border is patrolled by Israel, including the cargo ships in the sea.
You would sit back, year after year, maybe decades passing by. Not understanding why no one is helping. You see the liberation groups trying to help but its hard to get the kind of weapons you might need to fight it off and now it's turned and the liberation groups are terrorists. Not only that, at that point you would probably only want some peace, or on the extreme revenge. But some sort of change would have to occur.
You might get so desperate (because your economy is depressed, no one has any money, the place you work at is most likely bombed to shreds) that you strap a bomb to your back and blow something up. All in a hope to have the world hear your cries.
But they are terrorists huh?
9/11. If there is one person that still believes that Bin Laden got a bunch of men to chill out in the US, train to fly planes into strategic targets you have GOT to be hitting the pipe, and hard.
Its illogical and I saw the tape. I lived in Egypt during the attacks. I was out in the street, when someone said the US just released a movie, it's scary. I went home to the satellite like WTF is going on. About 10 minutes later the video comes on. Bin Laden says (and you can never forget something like that) I'm truly pleased that the Mother is hurting like her child. Hopefully the citizens of the United States will wake up. And although I had no involvement with this event.
End of tape. At the time, I was fluent in Arabic. I know exactly what he said. While everyone here was scrambling to get a news conference on I saw that tape. And when the US finally released the tape it was TOTALLY different. Even the syntax on the Arabic was off. I believe him, it was a very direct statement. And it makes a ton of sense.
The Arabs are not the only ones that think we are a bunch of sheep following blindly. Practically everyone thinks we are a bunch of egotistical jerks. I hate to agree with them but shyt, I was born in the US and shake my head in wonder at the people I encounter daily.
So anyone could of attacked us. I find it convenient how quickly we landed in Afghanistan. How the militants on the ground were magically only a handful. Come on people, if you just attacked the strongest country in the world and you are hiding out, you would probably be picking the GI's off one by one. Come on, you were smart enough to orchestrate multiple, coordinated air strikes (by gaining control of the plane no less) to major US targets and you can't fight off our ground forces. It's not like we're the chinese army, billions strong.
Iraq is a terrorists haven? So this sophisticated network only has the means to suicide bomb although they are connected to Al Quieda (The worlds largest terrorst organization).
Maybe they're not terrorists after all. Maybe they are trying to send us an important message before its too late. Just an alternate way of thinking. Wake-up calls always hurt, huh? It's easy to say we just bombed a village of 25,000 people in an attempt to root out a terrorist but its hard to swallow when we are faced with the consequences of our actions, or of letting our leaders do whatever they want (9/11)
THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE. Use the logical side of your brain. Strip your religious beliefs, your political affiliations cultural predjudices and ask yourself what the logical answer is.
What about Iraq? How is that any different than us having a horses ass of a ruler named Bush? Is he not just like an evil dictator with the power to kill / harm / throw in jail anyone he wants?
The only difference is he does it under the auspices of "freedom". What I have noticed about us, in this country? As long as you pacify our need to acquire more things in terms of posessions, we'll roll over and be a good dog. As long as you've bought that house, or got a college education, a computer with the bells and whistles and that car you were looking at forever, we will let our leaders do just about anything they want.
We will **** about for a week then go back to our palaces. We will tell ourselves that we are sooooooo free. Look at the Wendy's double melt commercial, switch the tv off and go back to deluding ourselves that we are living the best life in the world.
There is more than one way to control people. Physical force is hard to keep up over a period of time. But if you can get someone in the "head space" you got em for life. The principle of economics is based on analyzing consumers decisions. In Microeconomics you look at the person, what their social standing is, their mental capability and the choices they make to buy this or that. The same principle is used in controlling the people of the US.
They look and say ok, well this section of the country is middle class and are more concerned with college education, if we provide more grants / student loans then they will be pacified. They look at major metropolitian areas and say ok, these are concerned with getting ahead. We should create more opportunities for them to buy property / IT equipment, hell, whatever. Then that section is pacified.
This is a huge thing people. It means that they know what you want and need to remain happy on the inner level. In turn, they can run the country any which way they want. Why? Because your so happy with your material shyt that you pay scant attention to how the government is ran.
I mean really, the only wheel that squeeks is the greasy one.
Diva | |
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Ls1
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Joined: 3/26/2007
Msg: 510 | |
| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/23/2007 11:23:13 AM | Excellent post as usual MG, and yours was interesting too black bi diva although you kinda rambled on a bit.
First of all I don't think George Bush is evil and certainly not on the scale of Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin, he just is'nt clever or ruthless enough.
How the hell did he become president anyways ?
I remember before he became president that the biggest complaint I heard about him is he is'nt very bright and there were some references made to monkeys.
What bothers me the most is how vice president Cheney and secretary of defense Rumsfeld were able to have so much influence and power in the white house and also the growing influence of the christian right.
Now that Gerry Falwell is gone will that diminish ?
Also the simple fact that Americans gave someone as incompetent as Bush a second term.
I know the democrats did'nt field a good candidate to go up against Bush but any of them would still be better than Bush
MG......why do you think they voted him back in ?
America did change after 9/11 and not for the better, I've heard the conspiracy theories and I think it might have been prevented if Bush had not been president but I don't think he or his administration is responsible........I still think it's Bin Laden.
But I'm curious what you think about that ....... MG ?
I like the United States and what it stands for......or at least stood for.
The good they have done in the past far outwieghs the bad.
Remember this is not a perfect world, what would it be like if the old Soviet Union had won the cold war or if Communist China becomes the dominate power in the future.
I would not like that.
America is at it's best when it has great men leading it, Theodore (Teddy) Roosevelt, Franklin Delanor Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan and even Bill Clinton.....they all made America stronger, enhanced it's reputation and made the world a better place.
Hopefully Americans will find a way to fix what has gone wrong with America during the Bush administration, I think a lot of them are trying but Bush has to be gone first.
What they need is another great leader. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/23/2007 3:01:51 PM |
I know the democrats did'nt field a good candidate to go up against Bush but any of them would still be better than Bush
MG......why do you think they voted him back in ?
From a foreign perspective, I see Bush's re-election as being due to several important factors.
1) The natural reaction of people's fear, and the governments use of that same fear to exert control. By controlling the language , one controls the electorate.
Democrats become "cut and runners". They were "helping the terrorists. "
Kerry ( cough...Heinz millionaire...cough), and Edwards (cough....rich ambulance chaser...cough ) were both tagged early on by the "liberal media". Although both Bush and Cheney were also millionaires (and Bush especially has a history of failure all through his life, but still was a millionaire) - strangely when it came to news stories about them....they were not "tagged" in the same way. You may want to ask yourself how this came to be.
2) The entire record of electronic voting, and the troubling direct ties to the Republican party of their manufacturers, and the complete lack of any ability of oversight in voting transactions also screams for a public inquiry. In a world where almost all transactions are done by computers, and easily tracked - voting machines are a very obvious exception to the same strict control we are normally used to in such devices.
My province, Quebec, experimented with voting machines - and outlawed them after many problems in some municipal votes. They essentially provide the ability of a few people to alter election results, without being traceble.
3) The large impact of the religious right in being directed by right wing religious leaders to vote for Bush. Just this influence alone is enough to swing an election, with the numbers involved. Just look at how close recent elections have been, and imagine if all of that influence had been removed. As in the old days in Quebec, the church's involvement in politics has lead to the ability to elect leaders.
4) What's fascinating about Bush is how he was able to avoid the fate of other presidential candidates with his horrid speaking skills. Some other guys wear a helmet while riding a tank, look idiotic, and lose the election.
Others , like Ford, make one mistake in a debate ...and that's all folks.
Bush pretty much is incapable of speaking a sentence without a script - and he's elected twice.  His errors in grammer, history, and pretty much anything else you can think of fill DVD's and websites. I can't think of any other western democracy that would even think of electing a man like this.
All those things, and some others, will be the source of discussion for decades for historians over the reasons for Bush's two elections.
America did change after 9/11 and not for the better, I've heard the conspiracy theories and I think it might have been prevented if Bush had not been president but I don't think he or his administration is responsible........I still think it's Bin Laden.
But I'm curious what you think about that ....... MG ?
I think it's Bin Laden, as well. The neo-cons are certainly not Dr. Evil. Their record in office pretty much destroys any thought of direct involvement in 9/11. This is truly the "gang that couldn't shoot straight. "
I think they did have an indirect impact on it happening, however. If you remember the early months of the Bush presidency - it was pretty much in the doldrums. There was little leadership, and any possible chance of preventing at least some of the attacks were lost.
If one decision had of been taken, 9/11 would have been avoided. With those hijacking warnings coming to light, all the administration had to do was to ( even secretly) notify the FAA that all commercial flights would have to have their****it doors secured from the time before takeoff through to landing.
Although the doors were not at the same standard as today - it would have given a greater chance to take action against a hijacking. As we saw in flight 93, it took time to break in to a 2001 era****it. That time would have allowed all on board a better chance to fight off the attack, or at least notify authorities of one in progress.
That wasn't done, and we are all the worse off for it.
After the attack, 9/11 was the wind that filled the sails of the becalmed neo-con flagship. In essence, before 9/11 they had nothing to work with.
After 9/11, they were back in business. Added to that, quite understandably, was the fear and shock of the American people. This would be the tool that would be manipulated, and the echoes of that continued right through to the political process that lead us to the war in Iraq.
All these things point to that hypothetical situation I presented above, and how it COULD occur. In some ways, parts of it already have. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/23/2007 3:41:24 PM | What a great question.
Nazi Germany was a bit of a special case. Its people were culturally advanced but politically immature. Politics in the U.S. is almost an olympic sport, but culturally? I will be kind and say it is not as democratically dispersed as most would like to believe.
So the chance of the USA becoming as bad as Nazi Germany? Not likely to get that bad, but it is heading in that direction. And just getting close will be tragic for the world and even more tragic for America.
Ultimately though I have faith in the institutions of America and in her people, to remember their ideals and work towards them, instead of rewarding those who have worked to pervert them. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/23/2007 8:06:36 PM |
... it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. -- Herman Göring. Hitler's Reich Marshall at the Nuremburg Trials
http://www.illuminati-news.com/terrorism.htm | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/27/2007 5:04:09 AM | MG...have you taken the time to watch "Loose Change" or "In Plane Sight" or checked out "911truth.org" or many of the other awesome sources out there in regards to 911?
The eveidence is pointing very clearly to 911 as being an inside job. I relize that its not all 100% acurate and much still needs investigation....but really, the official version coming out of washington has holes in it bigger than the one that the supposed plane made at the pentagon.
If you get a chance to watch them id really be interested in your assessment | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/27/2007 5:24:33 AM |
The eveidence is pointing very clearly to 911 as being an inside job.
Let me guess, so Bush can get some money from bribes right? Risk his presidency and possibly end up with a needle in his arm in a Federal Pen so he can get a few extra bucks? Or is it the dictator theory, the one where he can't even make Jessica a hero yet supposedly was able to hide hundreds of guys with det cord running around two skyscrapers while chanting Jihadists coordinated hijackings of planes into buildings.
And then, afterwards, did not take the opportunity to become a dictator and shut down congress but asked them for permission to do things and continues to this day to pass bills and such. Don't you think that the time to take the Presidency and turn it into a fiefdom would have been then rather than run for re election?
And I acctually thought Bush was sort of silly .............
Hey, quick question, at what temperature does steel lose tinsel strength and, at what temperature does concrete lose it's strength and, at what temperature do nylon washer in rivets lose their ability to hold the girders tight with the concrete and, with swaying plyable girders with tight concrete, would it make sense that it might lose some integrity if not all? | |
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Kesiah
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Joined: 5/11/2007
Msg: 516 | |
| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/27/2007 6:17:04 AM | Aw.... Well that is a tricky question... let alone the answer.
Now be kind to me, because I am new to this, and anything I may write may just to be to get you thinking and now necessarily what I believe in. I just like to provoke a little bit more discussion ... sort of devil advocate!
ok...lets go:
"becoming as bad as Nazi Germany and the reference in the question to Hitler..."
Can I ask why did you use Germany to compare the current US Government to, there are lots of fascist regimes around the world at the moment, which you could have compared the American Government to. Why did you compare them to a political climate which existed over 60 years ago? That period of history is dead and gone, yes we should never forget it and learn from it, but why use this comparison... I think it is because it makes the question seem more important. In the media stereotypes and mythology are constantly used to keep images and ideas alive, and the "nazis" are a symbol for something which we recognise and then attach other ideas to... you are doing this with you question... sometimes it is handy that there is a still the reference to that terrible organisation... because who would you use if they hadn't been around in world history.
Why do you refer to that... have you read Meine Kampff... have you been to Germany recently... have you met people from that country... Do you know how much they like everything American?
I know that you are only making that comparison... or contrast... or suggestion ... but why...??
Is it because it is easy to lump all the badies together??
I think you could just ask the question with out trying to glamourise it too much without suggesting that the Bush administration is like the National Socialist government that ruled Germany in the 1930-40's. The Bush Administration should be compared to more recent regimes... to make any realistic comparison for the world has moved on.
Yes we can learn lots from history... but comparing like with like is good... and to have some forethought is good too... but come on... the societies of the western world have all had their fascist connections, most european countries tried to get somekind of world domination... how about just comparing your present government with it's own past... quite a big leap to compare it with another country and over 60 years ago... and they aint in the same league even.
The Nazi regime... just did what all the other ones didnt manage to do... the other empires.. including the British one... (that includes you yanks to a certain extent)... killed and destroyed societies... it changed the world order out of all proportion ... all in the name of capitalism and economic development... and you and I have benefited from it.
The Nazi regime tried it but they were unsuccessful... because they challenged the world that the British and the Americans had moulded. The killing regime of the Nazi's was abhorant... the holocaust was the worse event in the history of mankind... but British history has not been too nice... look at the mess that the British have left behind in Africa, look at what the American's have done around the globe...??
Ah.. but you wont like that because you don't agree with your government... and the germans maynot have liked what their government in the 1930's started to do...
But it is your Government. So only you can do something about it. But societies are like sheep and if you have a charasmatic leader then anything can happen.
Unfortunately Bush doesn't have all the qualities to be in the same league as Hitler... so don't fret too much.
Maybe you should consider some of the conspiracy theories about... for it is not really your government that is in control it is the ecelons of hidden civil servants, and capitalism that are probably pulling the strings.. and the demands of us all being a part in a modern commercial world.
I am not too religious... but I had to do it at school... "remove the log from your own eye before you remove the spec from others " is something I remember from the bible.
As Americans... and I like you all... cos when I lived in Germany I couldnt wait to bump into one of you... ow just to speak english even with a yank I thought!... but maybe you should compare your Government with previous ones in your own history ... before you take such a dramatic leap and try and compare Bush to Hitler... they are not in the same league!
Don't respond too harshly too me... I am not that bright... only making a little comment really... I do find Meine Kampff heavy going... but I feel that it is good to know how that stuff happened... for that book changed the course of history. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/27/2007 11:05:41 AM | "Can I ask why did you use Germany to compare the current US Government to"
I merely used the clique worse political system I could think of to use as an example of and ask do you think we can become as bad as that. I have stated numerous times that the intent was not to say will we become like Nazi Germany but as bad as that. Since then I have come to realize that perhaps I could have worded my question better but then again this wording has stimulated some rather interesting responses.
Perhaps I should have stated my question as
"do you think that America is invulnerable or could our current Government collapse into a completely oppressive state, how could that happen and how bad is it now."
That was the real intent behind my question of "could the USA become as bad as Nazi Germany" At the time it just seemed more of an interesting way to put it than spelling my question out for those that can't read between the lines and those who read into it things that are not there. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany
Posted: 5/27/2007 5:15:55 PM | | In a strange paradox Bush is idiot, but hes trying to prevent illberal representation, and fascim. Bush is truman the 2nd America is not becoming Nazi german just with internet we get more up close view of the scum, lobbyist working the system, and earmarks is a killer on taxpayers, and those pork projects should be cut , and the money be used to fund Soical Security, and medicare programs. I cant blame bush for domestic problems really its congress ripping the taxpayer off and 435 Jeff Flakes is needed before will get are monies worth. Bush foreign policy is a distater, but is domestic policy is probadly good as or better than Clinton. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/27/2007 11:57:49 PM | Here's some websites that note similarities between Bush and Hitler:
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles3/Jayne_Hitler-Bush.htm
(lists 31 similarites)
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
(lists 14)
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/247321/a_comparison_of_george_bush_and_adlof.html (includes info on Bush’s grandfather, Prescott Bush…who was a partner in a company selling fuel to and laundering money for the nazis)
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff07182003.html | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/28/2007 12:14:11 AM | "The Nazi Connection: Eugenics, American Racism, and German National Socialism," by Stefan Kuhl (March 2007)
Editorial Reviews
From Kirkus Reviews
Narrowly focused yet chillingly effective indictment of the American scientists and social theorists who inspired and applauded Nazi racist ideology. Eugenics--part science, part twisted Social Darwinism, according to German sociologist Khl--was first defined in 1883 by Francis Galton as the ``science of improving the stock''--a science that went on to give academic respectability to the earliest expressions of Nazi racism. Insisting that many of the assumptions underlying Nazi thought were ``by no means limited to German scientists,'' the author skillfully dismantles postwar attempts to marginalize the activities of the worldwide eugenics establishment, particularly in the US. With European ties frayed post-WW I, America became the main scientific reference point for German theorists seeking international legitimacy: it unfortunately proved an influential model, not only intellectually but politically. A 1907 Indiana law permitting the sterilization of the mentally handicapped long predated Germany's 1933 Law on Preventing Hereditarily Ill Progeny, and the 1924 American Immigration Restriction Act was later praised by the future Fhrer in Mein Kampf. Meanwhile, US sponsors--including the Rockefeller Foundation and Jewish philanthropist James Loeb--helped fund major eugenics institutes in Germany. In turn, many of these sought greater recognition by offering honorary degrees to leading US eugenicists- -two of whom, Leon Whitney and Madison Grant, are glimpsed here proudly comparing appreciative letters from Hitler. A brief reference to a resurgence of scientific racism in today's academia adds an especially pertinent cautionary note. More a monograph than a fully realized history but, still, a well-documented revisionist rebuke to those who would isolate Nazism as a unique phenomenon. -- Copyright ©1993, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
Review
"Despite several excellent recent books on the history of eugenics, Kuhl's little book has moved the history of eugenics to a new level: the international connections that nationally researched studies have heretofore failed to make. The role of American intellectual and scientific encouragement for first German and then Nazi ideas on eugenics--and beyond--is simply dynamite information. Kuhl's close dissection of the persistence of eugenical ideas despite shifts in definition over time is a powerfully documented and necessary contribution."--Carl N. Degler, author of Out of Our Past and Affluence and Anxiety
"Narrowly focused yet chillingly effective indictment of the American scientists and social theorists who inspired and applauded Nazi racist ideology....A well-documented revisionist rebuke to those would isolate Nazism as a unique phenomenon."--Kirkus Reviews
"A thorough-going expose of the multiple and nefarious connections between Nazi racial hygiene and American eugenics."--Robert N. Proctor, author of Racial Hygiene: Medicine under the Nazis
"An important book that should not be ignored."--San Francisco Bay Guardian | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/28/2007 12:22:11 AM |
Hey, quick question, at what temperature does steel lose tinsel strength and, at what temperature does concrete lose it's strength and, at what temperature do nylon washer in rivets lose their ability to hold the girders tight with the concrete and, with swaying plyable girders with tight concrete, would it make sense that it might lose some integrity if not all?
if you really want to know, all your questions are answered here in just one hour and 20 minutes. Lots and lots of examples of steel buildings burning for 20 hours, 59 hours, etc etc. Yet only three steel and concrete high rises buildings have completely crumbled from within....and these were buildings built to sustain way way more than a jet hitting them.
You're a smart chap. Kick back, take a load off for an hour and a half and then tell us where the plane disappeared to that hit the Pentagon. Then tell us how all the black boxes in the twin towers were burned to nothing, but paper passports survived. He he he...this one's not a dream leanlife, it's a heist...and a damn good one at that. Why the bugger's even conned me into pledging several thousand dollars to the cause back then. Silly me.
Double indemnity for the brand new (Jewish) owner with the brand new insurance policies on the Towers...millions of dollars made on two airlines stocks, and oh yes not a skid mark on the ground to be found near the Pentagon depsite several eyewitness accounts of it hitting the ground before it hit the Pentagon....oh ya how could there be skid marks? They never found the doggone plane...lol...not a single piece of wreckage...oh i forgot...passports are wreckage. The best part is the gold under the Towers. That's entertainment.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&...= | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/28/2007 9:03:20 AM | "Why do you refer to that... have you read Meine Kampff... have you been to Germany recently... have you met people from that country... Do you know how much they like everything American?"
No I will never waste my time reading Meine Kampa nor have I visited Germany. I have had a good friend from Germany who moved to the states for a few years and them moved back to Germany. I speak a little Germany, very little really. Du spreka Deutsch, Ich spreka Deutsch, sear kline. That was misspelled I think.
I did not mean my comparison as an insult to the modern day Germany or hold the mocern day Germans acountable for the mistakes for their ancestors. I was glamorizing the question. I mean no offense. As I said before it was just a way to put the question in a entertaining way. But do you have any thing to say on the subject or just artistic criticisms of my style of presenting the question. Your post was well done so I would like to hear what you have to say.
Many seemed to think America is invulnerable. I think it is an awful naive belief. My three concerns are this.
One, That as the decades go past our rights will be slowly eroded. That each generation will get use to the rights taken from them and except it as I have seen being done over the last 30 years. That this will build as the years go on. That after another couple of hundred years we will not even remotely resemble a free country and the people will just accept it.
My second concern is that someone figures out how to do it from within. With checks and balance of powers being eroded so the executive branch has more and more unchecked power I see this as an ever growing possibility. No Bush could not do it but perhaps him and/or others in the future will set it up so some one else can. It could just take some geniuses in power, a well thought out propaganda campaign to fool the main stream public, an well thought out excuse to have to declare martial law to protect the country and we could well be on our way to a fascist state or some thing as bad or worse.
There are two factions I see in this country that would love to over throw the government. One that is on the far left that want to over throw the corrupt state and restore what they believe would be a better government. The other is on the far right that does want to take over from within and change this country into a Christian Theocracy.
The far left does not concern me right now. They are no where near to getting the support from the public and if they do then maybe it will because it is time to over throw the Government. The far right that wants to turn this country into a Christian theocracy is an concern. They are getting their leaders in power and using their political might to jockey for power and position. Lucky that their candidate was not no where near smart enough to pull off a take over. But they will keep trying. Now don't get me wrong. Many of us, like me, that go to a church building every Sunday to worship God are not like this. But Bush does run with that crowd.
The reason Bush was elected both terms, besides political scandals, was that the church goers felt he was their candidate and they came out in force to cast their vote for him. He was the candidate that went on his knees every morning and asked God for advice, etc. it was a well presented propaganda campaign to fool the church goers into believing he was a good Christian man instead of the spoiled little rich boy looking out for his rich buddies that he is.
My third concern is sort of like above but less controlled and planned. I saw what 9/11 did to the public opinion. I can understand the conspiracy theories. It could not have worked out better for what we use to call the moral majority but now I think it is called the Neocons. Do I got that right? Any how what would happen if some nut/s figured out a way to blow up an atomic bomb and destroy a major city in America. I suspect it would be all over, the public would lie down and let those in power do what ever they want, we would go from a country possibly being on a path to becoming a truly free country to a complete police state over night.
By the way I did not mean to infer that democracy is bad thing but that pure democracies are. I know, " sacrilege". Democracy is the most advance political system to be tried but we do not have pure democracies. We have representative democracies. That is where we elect the people to rule us. Also we have law to check and balance democracy. That is we do have some law to protect individuals from being oppressed by majorities. I just think the individual right needs to be stressed more than corporate right, we have majorities suppressing minorities and individuals lives are being destroy for the corpeorate good. That this needs to be address before it gets to bad. Laws to addressed this growing social problem needs to be addressed and we need to start swinging back towards the left before our soldiers are goose stepping in the streets, symbolically speaking. | |
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Ls1
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Joined: 3/26/2007
Msg: 523 | |
| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/28/2007 9:30:06 AM | Lots and lots of examples of steel buildings burning for 20 hours, 59 hours, etc etc. Yet only three steel and concrete high rises buildings have completely crumbled from within....and these were buildings built to sustain way way more than a jet hitting them.
The WTC did withstand the impact of those 767's
A fully loaded 767 wieghs about 400,000 lbs and also carries about 90,000 litres of jet fuel.
How much heat is generated when you have that much jet fuel burning inside a building ? The WTC had insulation protecting it's steel girders from heat in case of a fire but it was disloged from the impact of the crash exposing the main supports to that intense heat.
Why did the last building to be hit collapse first ?
Is it because the second jet hit a lower part of the tower than the first resulting in a lot more wieght bearing down on the impact zone. And you don't have to actually melt the steel to weaken it.....just get it hot enough, add in the shock of those impacts that we all saw on tv and we witnessed the results.
I've seen just about every program that covers 911 including loose change, the dark side(pbs frontline) and one that focused on what actually caused the collapse of those towers.
I never base my facts on just one source and that includes conspiracy theories and Michael Moore, get enough information from a variety of sources and a more balanced picture emerges.
And besides
I don't think Bush & co is competent enough to pull off the attacks of 911 and secondly to hide that conspiracy this long. Like MG says this is truly the gang that could'nt shoot straight.
But I do think he could've prevented it.
Back on topic
The ties between Germany and The United States are long and deep.
Whether it's 100 years ago or last week the political and especially industrial & commercial ties are among the closest in the world.
But just remember in WW2 that the United States was Germany's enemy and the most responsible for Germany's defeat.
But once Hitler was gone those old ties were still there.
German scientists wanted to work for America and many that were not captured by the Soviets did.
Immediately after VE day General Patton wanted to give the Germans back their guns, combine the U.S. and German armies and go after the real enemy.......the Soviet Union.
I bet the Germans would have been only too happy to fight alongside the Americans.
And leading up to America's entry into the war the Nazi party was established in the U.S. and had some influence. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/28/2007 9:56:30 AM | ^^^now that is a well thought out post lief.
i can't help thinking to myself about what an executive taught me early in a 20 year career with a Fortune 500 co. Something along the lines of learning how to manage your manager and you'll always get what you need. The reason i think of this, is because of mr. george here. While he was busy trying to kick a bad alcoholism problem and while he kept himself busy watching his baseball team, other men, i.e. Cheney and Rumsfeld were always in the federal political arena behind the scenes pulling the strings of puppets. They're very well versed in this type of conduct.. Actually these two go back a long way in politics. At least as far back as the days of gerry Ford. I really don't think George is any match at all for these two. Now I don't believe he's completely in the dark. it's blatantly obvious something was rotten in denmark in his brother's State of Florida election time 2000.
Starting a war on a pack of lies led the American populace to vote for him again in 2004. Most political pundits agree that had the nation not been in the middle of war, a change of leadership would definitely have been more the order of the day.
The Senates paper that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the war on iraq was based on a pack of lies does not come out and say that the doctored intelligence reports hit the prez's desk. It wouldn't surprise me if it didn't. What the boss doesn't know kinda thing. i was never impressed with him as a political leader. to be honest, i haven't been impressed with any of the presidents during my time on earth. That's not anti-American. i've thought we in turn only one good half @ssed leader ourselves, back in the Trudeau days.
I kinda worry about the nation to the south of me. It really seems to be operating in a state of confusion, and very surreptitiously-organized chaos. i firmly believe there are links to the heavily pharmaceutically medicated society i see, and the consummate crazy internal violence that plagues the nation, our nation, and nations in Europe. Almost every time i read these stories of parents killing their kids, or kids killing thier dogs or their parents, there is almost 100% to a story, pharmaceutically prescribed meds lurking behind the scenes.
I've always thought there was something of a mental malaise slowly coming over north american society over the last two decades. I noticed it being a recruiter and interviewing thousands of people over twenty years. i also noticed it in our client base over twenty years...people are people for sure. But people are not the same people they once were. I find that people aren't anywhere near as human as they were twenty years ago. I'm not at all suggesting their reptiles in disguise...I think of them more as blind mice. Thats why I got out of the career i was in and became self employed...people seem to have just gone off the deep end in the last twenty years, and I really can't put my finger on all of it yet, but I do believe it has to do with the food stream, the meds, and the television.
This continent and possiblty this globe would a lot more comfortable if D1ck(let's go hunting sometime) Cheney was impeached and imprisoned. I hope America makes it to the next election unscathed, but I think something's going to pop soon. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/28/2007 11:33:28 AM | The War in Iraq was not started on a pack of lies, and no paper showed "beyond a shadow of a doubt," that it was based on lies at all. If you think Iraq was invaded over WMDs or Saddam having supposed connections to al-Quaeda, you've been brainwashed by the media. Technically Iraq could have been invaded without any evidence for WMDs whatsoever.
I'm not saying you have to agree with the reasons for invading, but they were not lies. The question is were they enough to justify an invasion. | |
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