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Kesiah
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Joined: 5/11/2007
Msg: 526 | |
| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 5/29/2007 4:07:14 AM |  ... Well my point was to get you to think about the question, the way things are put and the perspectives that we can approach a subject. This is a very sensitive subject area... naturally because it is to do with all of us.
My comment to do with the question itself was made to try and highlight the fact that if you ask a question... every word we bring to it has meaning and provokes emotion and reaction. It is all to do with the study of language. Funnily enough these are all the tools of our leaders... so nothing should really be taken as gospel... everything should be questioned... and that is what I was trying to invoke with my response... aswell as putting another perspective on things.
It is great that people have provided links for reference to their ideas... but as with everything we... as thinking people should challenge and search for various viewpoints... not just accepting one idea because we like it... but to try and take in a wealth of knowledge and ideas.... so that we have an overview of matters... and an understanding and tollerance of other people, their contributions and beliefs.
Great question in many ways... keep on going all of you.. its interesting and positive to have a debate. We should just never get personal about it and try and stay objective.
Thanks to our capitlist society we do have some say still... we think we have a democratic society... but we don't really ... we are all controlled... we all buy into it... we don't have an absolute say... but we must use the small freedoms we have.... and try and prevent them from being taken away.
Try reading some Noam Chomsky!
Here is a link to start you off... don't take anything as the truth... always question!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky
(ps. sorry for any bad spelling...!) | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/12/2008 7:35:20 PM | What does make this county the United States of America great. We really are a great nation of great people but what is it that makes us stand out. Is it some thing that is not out inside this country, no. But the difference is perhaps what is the norm here that we take for granite that is perhaps the exception other places.
It twas actually a question from someone from an horrible organization, the Italian Mafia that made me realize what makes us stand out. Not that I know any thing about those sociopaths in various mafias. One just happen to talk to one. Any how, He asked me what matters to me, an organization or people. Without hesitation I said people.
We care about the individual and damn the organization except how it will help our family and friends. We care about the individual and damn this cooperate good used as an excuse to screw the individual and ultimately our love ones. It is by protecting the right and good of the individual we protect the right of the cooperate good and not the other way around.
We are a great people and all the Nazi type efforts will fail because of people greater than me that realize that what is important if children and family and screw the United States Government or any other cooperate organization. If the United States Government want to be on board with this great but if not screw them. That is what is what makes America great. Yes I Love my country because I love its people. Will you join us.
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/12/2008 9:41:14 PM |
leif 333: "Say a terrorist blows up a nuclear bomb in a city. Next he could use the patriot act to put in jail anyone who apposes him just by coming up with lies about the people. I he did this, what would there be to stop him from declaring himself ruler.
Funny story about a nuke being detonated in the U.S.A. by "terrorists". I was reading an article a couple months ago about how a unescorted plane carrying 6 nukes crashed in the US. They never found the pilot and one of the nukes were missing. So in conspiracy rings there is talk that the US government is planing to dentate a nuclear bomb in a major US city. To be honest I would not be surprised if they did this as 9/11 was planned by the US government. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/12/2008 11:30:33 PM | Anyone who believes we have fair elections in the US doesn't have a grip on reality.
Maybe this will help eliminate the banter - there are 9 segments .. please, educate yourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzPXer7946E
As for anyone here who supports candidates, and I dont care what party they're with, educate yourselves on the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and which candidates for presidency belong to it, educate yourselves on the North American Union and what candidates support it, educate yourselves on the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP) and which candidates support it, and let the list keep growing ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo
The Real ID ... well, it's FINALLY come to public light in the media, although downplayed. Expanded security which I have no doubt includes more surveillance aparatus will follow. Anyone discredits this is still sleeping.
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9848924-7.html?tag=nefd.pulse
My question is, why is it so hard for people to phathom what's here and what's coming if you dont stop it?
There'll be no liberty or freedom when our government appointees belong to a host of secretive organizations, support only the interests of wealthy corporations and profiteering, surveil and scroutinize the citizens of this country as if we are the terrorists, sell- out our jobs to other countries, pass legislation without bringing it to the people and with no congressional oversight, borrow money from other countries to aid yet other countries .. by the way .. we have no money just (I.O. U.) .... NAFTA, CAFTA and the NAU ....
Aren't you tired of being taxed on everything - to the point you're realizing your paychecks aren't buying what they used to, so you have to work, work, work at a job that could be pulled right out from under you tomorrow and most likely will be replaced by two jobs that still don't pay the bills? We spend less time with our families and if we turn on the tube, we're fed BS "unreality" shows, unreality news and the latest tinsel-town gossip.
What better way to manipulate and control people after you've dumbed them down so easily? Oh yes, spread the fear factor too ..
(For those who think Ron Paul is a conspiracy theorist of whacko, the problem is, you weren't listening to him then when he tried to tell people about ALL of this and you're probably not listening now. (but eventually you'll figure it out)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/13/2008 9:20:08 PM | "So in conspiracy rings there is talk that the US government is planing to dentate a nuclear bomb in a major US city. To be honest I would not be surprised if they did this as 9/11 was planned by the US government."
Unknownartist who knows if it was plotted or if they just exploited 9/11 to their advantage. There is a danger though. That is calling it a US Government conspiracy. It is factions of people who have infiltrated the government and not every one in general. People tend not to see that it is not institutions that do evil but people in these institutions. With the scenario I stated where they blow up a nuclear bomb and then put every one in jail who apposes them what lie would they come up.
Simple, they would say that congress and others in the government plotted to blow the bomb up to try and take over and it is a big government conspiracy. Then the president who really blew the bomb up could use the patriot act to put anyone in government who would appose him by saying it was them. The president would have access to all the classified information so he could know who may appose him and who would just go along. While he is cleaning out the US government of any threats he could pass martial law and declare himself ruler.
The public would bye it and go along with about any thing because they would be so scared about the bomb. By the time any one realized what happened it would be to late.
Do I think such an scenario is likely, no. I have more faith in the men of character and honor in this country to out think these socio paths that have infiltrated our institutions. But likely is not the point. For national security we need a zero chance. Evil geniuses are trying to find ways to infiltrate our Government and take over. We plain and simply have given the president way to much power. Such was not the vision of the founders of this country to give any one man that much power.
My point is to not get paranoid because like the above scenario evil men can exploit paranoia to take over. Have faith in good men to get in positions of power and try to make their job easier in any small way we can. You will know who is who by their fruits. But then again a evil genius knows to make good fruit to fool people. So that gets kind of tricky. Bottom line, I will put my faith in a good genius of honor over an evil genius any day. So of coarse good geniuses have found ways to get power to do good as well as the evil genius.
But you are right, the people who want to turn this country into a theocracy have found a puppet to put in the presidency and have exploited 9/11 to create a police state. The shame is it makes us true Christians look bad. I just hope we can survive one more year and the next president is a good man. Will see if the check and balances will hold. So far so good even if they won some battles.
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/13/2008 10:02:33 PM |
Another point is the patriot act. From what I have heard the executive branch can put anyone in jail they accuse of terrorism, even USA citizens, without due process of law and keep them there without a trial indefinitely.
From what you've heard????? You write all this crap based on what you've heard. Who is it that you heard it from that seems to do all of your thinking for you? How about reading the patriot act yourself and then form an opinion on actual information? From what you've heard? Jeez. Good thing we have an electoral college so individual citizens don't have the power of the vote huh? | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/13/2008 10:31:58 PM | According to the patriot act ( which was passed without the consent of congress ) we have no rights.
The patriot act was passed without the consent of the congress? One common theme among you ron paul fans is how little you know about what our constitution says. Who passed the patriot act without the consent of the congress? Article one of the constitution says that only congress can pass a law or act. The USA PATRIOT Act, commonly known as the Patriot Act, is an Act of Congress that President George W. Bush signed into law on October 26, 2001. The Act was passed by wide margins in both houses of Congress. Just where in the hell do you Ronster fans get your "information"?
And I've read the patriot act in it's entirety. Nowhere could I find that a law abiding citizen or visitor to this country has lost one right. Please point out where the wording is in the act that brings you to this conclusion that "we have no rights"?
We have homeland security coming into our homes whenever it pleases without warrants.
Really? Not my home. Has it happened in yours? I'd be interested to see an official account of homland security coming into anybody's private residence.
We have a government that reads our mail and taps our phones.
Hell if that's happening to you then procecute the suckers. They've violated the law. Jail em all. Jeez. But that has never happened to you has it.
They put the patriot act in place to keep us in fear of saying anything about the obvious lies that occurred on 911 ( All of which didn't help much since more and more evidence comes out daily )
How about outlining the evidence that came out today for us. Hell, pick any day for that matter.
They have secret prisons
They conduct torture in private
They conduct meetings ( SPP , NAU) in secret and sign treaties without allowing the public or congress to vote on anything.
Hitler and the Bushes are not much different in fact they used to do business together.
Do you have even a shred of evidence to support any of the rediculous allegations? Or did the Ronster just say it was so and you believe it?
The only reason we saw hiltler as evil and bush as powerful is that we have chosen sides due to patriotism.
You chose your reasoning I'll chose mine. I'd explain why I saw hitler as evil but I honestly doubt you'd get it.
I am a US citizen currently living in Canada and trust me when I tell you that the media you see here is not nearly as skewed as the media in the States. They out and out lie to you on FOX, CNN, and ABC news about what is really happening in the world. Mostly by ommision of the truth but they only allow you to know what suits their agenda.
You had to move to canada to figure all that out? hahahahaha. Coulda just asked me. I figured it out a quarter century or more ago. Jeez.
We need to take this country back and put the constitution back to the way it was.
I've been an amateur constitutional scholar for over twenty years. I read it in it's entirety at least once a year. Just read it last November as I'd been asked to debate it's merits in light of todays political climate at my local rotary. Pal I keep looking and I'll be damned if I can see that it's changed one bit since the passage of the twenty seventh amendment. Give me one right that is guarantied by the constitution that you have actually seen violated against any person since the patriot act was signed into law. A case number, litigants names, a transcript, anything but what you might find in the mainstream media or political sound bites. Anything at all.
Is Ron Paul himself as confused about the constitution as his followers seem to be? | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/13/2008 11:57:12 PM | "And I've read the patriot act in it's entirety. Nowhere could I find that a law abiding citizen or visitor to this country has lost one right. Please point out where the wording is in the act that brings you to this conclusion that "we have no rights"?"
http://www.animalliberationfront.com/ALFront/AgainstALF/PatriotAct.htm
Under the Patriot Act, the government now has the power to violate the rights of activists or political suspects in ways such as the following:
** Demand from bookstores and libraries the names of books anyone purchased or borrowed. Workers at the store or library are thereafter under a firm gag order not to mention the request to anyone such as the media and they have no power to contest it in court
** Conduct secret surveillance of religious or political groups without the need to show probable cause. This includes clandestine searches of homes and offices in sneak and peak operations
** Increase wiretapping of phone calls and monitor Internet searches, email correspondence, and chat room discussions. Internet Service Providers may be required to hand over content information and customer records to law officials without a court order or subpoena
** Have broad access to a person’s medical, financial, and educational records
** Eavesdrop on conversations between lawyers and clients in federal custody
** Detain foreigners indefinitely without charges or right to counsel
To do all this surveillance, the Pentagon has initiated the method of “data mining” and the system of “Total Information Awareness” that builds on the infamous FBI Carnivore program for Internet surveillance. This means that the state is monitoring electronic communication and research in order to identify possible “terrorists.” All federal agents need to say to the courts, should they ask, is that their prying is relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation. If a judge believes a request is without merit, he or she must grant it anyway. At the same times, citizen rights for disclosure of public documents and records under the Freedom of Information Act increasingly are being weakened and denied.
The Patriot Act also creates the new legal category of “domestic terrorist” and defines it in a chillingly broad manner. According to the Patriot Act, the crime of domestic terrorism is committed when a person engages in activity “that involves acts dangerous to human life that violate the laws of the U.S. …and appear to be intended: to intimidate or coerce a civilian population [or] to influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion.”
Clearly “intimidation” and “coercion” could mean anything, and the government does not adequately distinguish between violent and nonviolent methods of persuasion. This definition is a direct challenge to liberation groups like the ALF and ELF that are targeted as top domestic terrorist threats. Indeed, nearly any protest group can fit the definition of terrorists, for what is it to “intimidate” or “coerce” a “civilian population” or “to influence the policy of the government by intimidation or coercion”? Protests often are intimidating, and their entire point is to “influence” policy.
Not only do the ALF and ELF fall under the definition of “domestic terrorism,” but also groups like PETA. For “harboring,” “concealing,” “aiding,” or “lending material support to” “terrorists” is punishable under the Patriot Act. PETA has given money to well-known animal rights “terrorists” such as Rod Coronado, Gary Yourofsky, and Josh Harper, and in Ashcroft’s world this makes PETA aides and abettors of terror. Indeed, right wing industry organizations like the Center For Consumer Freedom are denouncing even the Humane Society of the United States as a terrorist group for allegedly funding an Internet service used by the ALF and hiring “ALF-affiliated criminal” J.P. Goodwin in 2001.
Similarly, if you shelter dogs that are rescued from a laboratory by the ALF, or if you provided a room for a demonstrator who later became involved in a violent protest activity, you too could be arraigned under the Patriot Act. A foreign student involved with PETA or, certainly, the ALF, could be retained and deported for providing assistance to a “domestic terrorist” organization. Speaking out in support of the ALF or ELF can earn you a criminal charge, as can taking pictures of animal abuse in laboratories or factory farms and slaughterhouses. In our Orwellian culture where truth is falsehood and falsehood is truth, documenting animals tortured in a slaughterhouse is terrorism, but beating and killing animals in unspeakably vicious ways is not.
Amidst the current dragnet, the penalties for liberation activities are far higher that previously. Whereas the crime of arson on a vivisection laboratory, for example, carried a penalty of not more than twenty years, the Patriot Act amends the law to read “for any term of years or for life.” The Patriot Act also has removed the statue of limitations for specific terrorists offenses, including those that create a “foreseeable risk” of death or injury to another person. The maximum penalty for providing material support to, harboring, or concealing a “terrorist” increases from ten to fifteen years in prison.
That’s When I Reach For My Revolver
“When a long train of abuses and usurpations …evinces a design to reduce the people under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.”
Thomas Jefferson | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/14/2008 12:05:30 AM | Yanno I am tired and have the flu and really shouldnt even be posting but this cant stand.
Another point is the patriot act. From what I have heard the executive branch can put anyone in jail they accuse of terrorism, even USA citizens, without due process of law and keep them there without a trial indefinitely.
That is correct. a person can be held for up to 3 years without the right to counsel should the president declare them a terrorist or combatant.
From what you've heard????? You write all this crap based on what you've heard. Who is it that you heard it from that seems to do all of your thinking for you? How about reading the patriot act yourself and then form an opinion on actual information? From what you've heard? Jeez. Good thing we have an electoral college so individual citizens don't have the power of the vote huh?
What crap jr? Never heard of gitmo? That unlawful detention center that practices torture? You know waterboarding? I did read the patriot act all by myself, wanna talk about section 202? I would say he heard quite correctly "all things considered".
According to the patriot act ( which was passed without the consent of congress ) we have no rights.
Well unfortunately it had the consent of congress and like other things they knew would piss off the american people they rammed it through then tried to declare immunity by stating they never read it before they passed it. And the dumb azzed american people BOUGHT IT! Ron paul voted against it if I remember correctly. They all should have been fired. But did we? Nah.....
The patriot act was passed without the consent of the congress? One common theme among you ron paul fans is how little you know about what our constitution says. Who passed the patriot act without the consent of the congress? Article one of the constitution says that only congress can pass a law or act. The USA PATRIOT Act, commonly known as the Patriot Act, is an Act of Congress that President George W. Bush signed into law on October 26, 2001. The Act was passed by wide margins in both houses of Congress. Just where in the hell do you Ronster fans get your "information"?
Thanks Jr but I think my explanation is considerably more informative in as much as the way the cards really fell.
And I've read the patriot act in it's entirety. Nowhere could I find that a law abiding citizen or visitor to this country has lost one right. Please point out where the wording is in the act that brings you to this conclusion that "we have no rights"?
Jr lets talk about section 202, then lets combine that with the miliatary commissions act, and the newly proposed domestic violence act. We now have free speech zones where people cannot be heard, hence the infringement on free speech, hence in violation, probable cause was wiped out by our good friend rummy, feel free to look up the case yourself, habeous corpus can be suspended, they basically shredded 1 thru 10 in one fashion or another but because they did not go on national television and light a match to it you want to spout it like we have lost no rights? Then call your self a constitutional scholar?
We have homeland security coming into our homes whenever it pleases without warrants.
Yes they have, becuase they no longer need probable cause, only reasonableness which of course the governemnt decides. Just ask hayden the chief of our national security.
Really? Not my home. Has it happened in yours? I'd be interested to see an official account of homland security coming into anybody's private residence.
Jr just because it did not happen in your home or his or mine does not mean it is not happening. In fact .001% of all HLS processing is terrorist regarded and ALL the rest is against cirizens. Imagine that.
We have a government that reads our mail and taps our phones.
That is absolutely true. They can turn on your cell phone and listen in even when you have the flap closed and the cells already have built in gps so its pretty easy to track your movement. Tivo units can also be monitored and everything in your living room can be heard. ATT and a couple others should be run right out of business for spying on us citizens who were making local calls and turning it aall over to the feds!!
Hell if that's happening to you then procecute the suckers. They've violated the law. Jail em all. Jeez. But that has never happened to you has it.
They are jr but you see the fascist side of this country is looking like they will let ATT off the hook easy with a slap on the hands the people get the big FU!
They put the patriot act in place to keep us in fear of saying anything about the obvious lies that occurred on 911 ( All of which didn't help much since more and more evidence comes out daily )
Its apower grab. They are eroding our governent into anaything but a republic and in many cases we are asking them to do so with all the socialist programs and look at my post about the swat teams invading that families house and this is only the tip of the iceburg if people dont start to wake up and smell coffee...er I mean the dung ho....
How about outlining the evidence that came out today for us. Hell, pick any day for that matter.
jr I cant believe you say these things.
They have secret prisons
They conduct torture in private
They conduct meetings ( SPP , NAU) in secret and sign treaties without allowing the public or congress to vote on anything.
Hitler and the Bushes are not much different in fact they used to do business together.
Everything you say here is correct and the hitler part is in th enational archives. What are those prison camp capacities up to now days? Last I heard something like 12 million?
Do you have even a shred of evidence to support any of the rediculous allegations? Or did the Ronster just say it was so and you believe it?
Yeh jr there are mounds of evidence, if you have google or yahoo or msn on your computer. In fact I have the release form that was sighed to have our old friend hally burton build some of them. The biggest if I remember is in alaska.
The only reason we saw hiltler as evil and bush as powerful is that we have chosen sides due to patriotism.
We we told that either we were with our government or with the terrorists. (I guess they wanted to completely rule out any form of dissent in the country and scare us not to have a different opinion fromk the dubya and co)
I am a US citizen currently living in Canada and trust me when I tell you that the media you see here is not nearly as skewed as the media in the States. They out and out lie to you on FOX, CNN, and ABC news about what is really happening in the world. Mostly by ommision of the truth but they only allow you to know what suits their agenda.
Oh that has been shown time and time again. I love the invincible plane one yet people still believe the news. I dont even turn on my tube anymore, i get asll my news from online and even then one must be very careful.
We need to take this country back and put the constitution back to the way it was.
Ditto...
I've been an amateur constitutional scholar for over twenty years. I read it in it's entirety at least once a year. Just read it last November as I'd been asked to debate it's merits in light of todays political climate at my local rotary. Pal I keep looking and I'll be damned if I can see that it's changed one bit since the passage of the twenty seventh amendment. Give me one right that is guarantied by the constitution that you have actually seen violated against any person since the patriot act was signed into law. A case number, litigants names, a transcript, anything but what you might find in the mainstream media or political sound bites. Anything at all.
Is Ron Paul himself as confused about the constitution as his followers seem to be?
Jr; this is to funny. No one is saying that the words in the constitution have changed and you are being disengenous to cut it from that angle. The constitution is being regurgitated and reinterpreted (incorrectly), and you are one of the people helping the government in their cause with your approach to it.
I have not forgotten your total omission and denial to the history of our "individual" right to bear arms, that is not only the history of this country but several others that were cited as examples and predate our constitution and the forming of this government over some 1000 years. I have my doubts that you are a constitution scholar on any academic level what so ever from what I have seen you produce so far on this board.
If you are so well versed then that remark of "Give me one right that is guarantied by the constitution that you have actually seen violated against any person since the patriot act was signed into law. A case number, litigants names, a transcript, anything but what you might find in the mainstream media or political sound bites. Anything at all." has to be purely sarcasm as you would otherwise know there have been many instances.
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/14/2008 1:31:49 AM | | Not even going to begin to bother with either post other than to ask this question. If the patriot act violates the constitution or in any way as unconstitutional, can someone explain to my why it is that not one section of it has been challenged on it's unconstitutionality and found to be so by the courts? With all of you spouting off about your constitutional rights having been violated, why haven't you or any of the millions of others that feel the way you do challenged even one part of the patriot act? Could it be that you have no case that could win in the supreme court or one of the federal district courts? Or why hasn't your illustrious leader Ron Paul himself brought forth a legal challenge? Surely he would gain many political points if a ruling could be won in his favor. Why is that? Make your case to the courts. How far do you think you'll get here? | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/14/2008 4:29:57 AM | Mike .. cut the hogwash. The Patriot Act basically was kept secret from the people and for the most part, still is. It was never brought before the people like it should have been - let alone the way it was hurriedly passed under the noses of congress. It amounts to no more than the blueprint giving him exclusive power to form his "One World Government" ideology that his old man has been trying to push on us.
You apparently are another GW messenger boy taking notes on who's gullible and who's not.
Pffft! | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/14/2008 8:49:14 AM | .
Good post Mike where did that come from? "faux news"?
Our government has many different "isms" attached to it and imo one has to be completely blind or living in their own little bubble if they do not recognize the extent of corporate and governemnt corroberation. They are today nearly one in the same and companies were given the same rights as a person (that were never never intended), as I have spoke of in other threads. Thats about as close as ya can get to fascism without the use of martial law.
It begs the question Mike; "what do you need? Swastikas on the sides of the HLS armored cars before you can recognise it"? You do know about the armored cars from HLS right?
JR; How can someone proclaim they are a constitutional scholar and be so ill informed? There have been at least 2 patriot act cases that I recall seeing that have been ruled unconstitutional.
There is so much incorrect about what you say sometimes about the constitution etc that I have to ask myself if you have ever read it and bothered to really understand it and its original intent or are you really that illinformed on the subject? shees...
Ron Paul is one of the few people on the planet who understands the system well enough to give us what we have now only within the boundaries of constitutional law rather than destroying it like all these other politicians are and continue to do. Sort of shows your position on constitutional values too?
3 cheers for ron paul!
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/14/2008 9:16:41 AM | "From what you've heard?"
My source was public radio. That is where I heard it. What I know from experience is more laws are being passed every year and we are far from a free country. You can't even breath without there being a law about it. But I will let you political junkies argue specifics. I will just do my small part and go on with my life.
You talk about reading it in its entirety. I think I will take you up on that. How about giving us a link to look it up or do you just want to keep such things secret. The sad part is many congress men and woman passed the Patriot Act without reading in it's entirety, themselves. Makes one wonder who is really in charge over there.
jrbogie one more thing. You claim to have read it in its entirety. So you claim you read all 342 pages so throughly that you can state with surity on this site that nothing on it was unconstitutional. Excuse me but I question your credibility and motives.
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/15/2008 7:24:36 AM | 20 words for you to start :
President Bush would never have become president without the help and complete control over policies and politics by Karl Rove.
There needs to be a major overhaul and reform of our government, and unfortuantely my faith in that happening diminishes more and more every day. More and more young people need to become aware of what is going on in our world...and who is causing it to happen.
Revolution is on it's way...if we are ready or not. The military industrial complex needs to GO! The CIA FBI and all other major enforcers of the supposed "law" need to go as well.
Something will happen sooner or later...hopefully sooner, where we will have to re-build our government from the ground up all over. And this time...maybe the american people will have become more informed and less passive about who is running the show; maybe they will stop relying on their fears to lead them to make a decision and make one based in facts instead of lies and smear campaigns.
Karl Rove....bush's brain or something was a book and movie all about him very interesting also....Shock Doctrine....another great book.
my two cents | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/15/2008 12:46:38 PM |
A quote I always liked by aldous huxley,
"Truth has become the dirty word "conspiracy",and many close their eyes failing to see the real enemy"
If you deny yourselves critical thinking you become exactly what you are made to be.
That's a good one. I also like this one, often attributed to Sinclair Lewis:
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
It's in those parts of the USA where the education system is the poorest and where religion/superstitution is rampant that Dubya is the most popular. Scary. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/15/2008 12:59:46 PM | All I can say is.......
"All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach".
Adolf Hitler
Sounds a lot like the War/fear/terrorism mongering that has been exploited in the US by the hard right.... | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/16/2008 9:05:36 AM | america won't be another nazi germany save one possibility.
if somehow before the end of his term, bush can find reason to and declare martial law virtually giving him absolute power as he is commander in chief. in that curcumstance yes the world had better be ready because if yiu thought all the S*** that's been going down in the world over the past 20years has been rocky, you'll be in for a very very big suprise.
though the chances of such an occurance are unlikely but, you never know, situations can be 'manufactured' a government creating a scenario for everyone elses eyes so they can do what they want or get what they want is a very very old trick that is still in use today and still works like a bloody charm. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/16/2008 9:07:44 AM | | another note, if bu chance bush is not really in power and is just the face of some age old secret organisation that is really in power then this 'organisation' just has to make sure whoever gets in as president is one of thier cronies, regardless of party | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/16/2008 11:21:14 PM | "I'd be interested to see an official account of homeland security coming into anybody's private residence"
First of all are you really that naive. Why would the officials confess and make an official account to their crimes against the constitution of the United States they swore to uphold. There is a old Roman saying. Who will guard the guards.
No this was not a private residence and I don't remember which government organization committed the offense but have you heard of the case of the librarians who took on the USA government. What I remember is some sort of law enforcement official threaten librarians with jail if they would not hand over private information on an indivdual. Threats were made to jail the librarians if they even told one other individual including family members that these so called law enforcement agent talked to them much less what was said. The librarians stood up to them and found ways to responsibly and safely beat them at their own game. They did not hand over the information and found ways to take it to the courts and win.
Now it begs the questions how many times did and do these so called law enforcement agents and others in government get away with similar actions that did not become public.
Thanks for all the responses on this site. It is great to hear the intelligent responses and rebuttals to the less intelligent responses. I am by far no expert but have learn a lot on this thread. I just wish more conservatives would give more intelligent responses. It is by hearing both sides in a debate that truth comes out. Even though I agree with many conventional conservative stances, there seems a lack of logic, honor and truth among many of its leaders. Many do seem to exploit the ignorance of many factions among the public.
Case in point, a small sack of cells that will die in fertility clinics any how can't be used to save million that stem cell research is on the verge of saving because they give that sack of cells the label of being a baby. Why not just say every sperm is sacred. Then again I have heard of cases of second and third trimester abortions. At this point the baby does have conscious and self awareness. How is it not murder if a self aware being who is human is killed. Yet this one argument has been used to further political careers with little consideration to truth.
As long as they can exploit our ignorance to further their power they will. Why can not people seek truth and have to make it an us and them issue. As long as they can keep half the public fighting the other half they can divide and conquer. That is the rich and powerful that cares about power and not being good stewards of resources and influence.
As long as people look at it as us and them, they will be against us. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/17/2008 7:22:07 PM | USA vs.DELIA GOMEZ-MORENO
"As they approached the front house, Kaufman and the officers
with him were clearly identified as “Police” and “Department of
Homeland Security.” ....
Reviewing the district court’s holding for clear error, we are “left with a firm and definite conviction that a mistake has been committed.” See In re Missionary Baptist Found., 712 F.2d at 209 (quoting United States Gypsum, 333 U.S. at 395)
Here, the officers’ “knock and talk” strategy failed. In the firstplace, the officers improperly executed the “knock and talk” strategy, and secondly, the “knock and talk” did not result in someone voluntarily coming to the door. The purpose of a “knock and talk” is not to create a show of force, nor to make demands on occupants, nor to raid a residence. Instead, the purpose of a
“knock and talk” approach is to make investigatory inquiry or, if officers reasonably suspect criminal activity, to gain the occupants’ consent to search. Jones, 239 F.3d at 720. Here, the officers did not engage in a proper “knock and talk” but instead created a show of force when ten to twelve armed officers met at the park, drove to the residence, and formed two groups--one for
each of the two houses--with a helicopter hovering overhead and several officers remaining in the general area surrounding the two houses.
When no one responded to the officers’ knocking, the officers impermissibly checked the knob on the door to the front house to determine if it would open, and simultaneously, at the
back house, announced their presence while demanding that the occupants open the door. When officers demand entry into a home without a warrant, they have gone beyond the reasonable “knock and
talk” strategy of investigation.
To have conducted a valid, reasonable “knock and talk,” the officers could have knocked on the
front door to the front house and awaited a response; they might have then knocked on the back door or the door to the back house.
When no one answered, the officers should have ended the “knock and talk” and changed their strategy by retreating cautiously, seeking a search warrant, or conducting further surveillance. Here,
however, the officers made a show of force, demanded entrance, and raided the residence, all in the name of a “knock and talk.” The officers’ “knock and talk” strategy was unreasonable, and accordingly, the officers created the exigent circumstances.
The district court erred in finding that exigent circumstances justified entry into the front house when the man exited the back door to the front house, saw the officers, and ran back into the house. According to the officers, they followed the man into the house because they needed to surprise the occupants and any potential armed smugglers to divert a possible shoot-out. This argument fails because the officers had already lost any element of surprise when they announced their presence, knocked on the doors,
and demanded entry. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/17/2008 7:47:10 PM | Law Abiding Ohio Resident And Korean War Veteran Has Authorities Illegally Swarm On His Property Just Hours After He Called President Bush A Liar On A Local AM Radio Station
Greg Szymanski | August 13 2005
Although Doug Stout, 77, won't pin illegal entry on his property to his harsh comments about Bush, but says one thing for sure "I don't smoke pot and everybody in town knows it." After hovering over his property with a helicopter, officers then swarmed on his land, looked at some shrubbery and then left without any explanation.
Don Stout looked up into the Midwestern sky one afternoon two weeks ago and saw a strange helicopter flying over his five-acre piece of land in rural Albany, Ohio. Before he knew what happened, the 77-year-old long-time resident, law-abiding citizen and Korean War veteran had eight law enforcement officials swarm on his property, checking the place out for marijuana.
Never before having a run-in with the law, Stout said the heavy-handed looking group of law enforcement thugs “came and went without saying a word” after suspiciously looking at a large bush on his property not in the slightest bit resembling a pot plant.
“I’ve been here since 1994 and everybody’s knows me including the sheriff. I never smoked marijuana and they know it, but I think they just like terrorizing people,” said Stout in a telephone conversation from his rural home, adding he still hasn’t received an answer from anyone why law enforcement officials invaded his privacy and entered his land without a proper search warrant.
“It scared the hell out of me as eight or ten men swarmed my place. I was weeding my garden and the next thing you know, they were on my property, looked at this bush and left without saying a word. It was ridiculous, but the sheriff, the deputy sheriff and the game warden all raided my place for no reason and I am still looking for an explanation.”
Although Stout can’t pinpoint why authorities entered his property without a warrant, earlier that day he aired his strong opinions against President Bush, calling him an outright liar, on a free speech and truth-telling talk radio show on the popular WAIF AM770 local radio station.
Stout said he has been calling in regularly voicing his anti-Bush opinions, saying people in rural Ohio are finally starting to wake up to lies, deceit and treachery imposed on the American people by what he calls a “lying dog of a President.’
“I think he and the rest of his buddies are corrupt, down right crazy and Bush should be impeached plain and simple for lying to the people about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,” said the former Korean War veteran, who lashed out at Bush for going to war illegally and in the process killing thousands of innocent civilians, including more than 1,700 GI’s.
“I think George Bush is a liar and is personally responsible for the deaths of many good young men in order that his rich buddies could profit from this illegal war.”
Considering himself a “true American” who honorably fought for his country and drove a Greyhound bus for many years, the plain speaking Bush critic thinks America is in a crisis and at the brink of martial law at the hands of government tyrants bent on destroying the country from within.
“I think we have lost this country and many people feel it’s too late and feel helpless about doing anything about it,” said Stout. “I am pretty outspoken about a lot of things and it wouldn’t surprise me if another terrorist hits us harder than 9/11, putting the country under a state of emergency and martial law while at the same time taking the heat off Bush.
“This reminds me of Nazi Germany. The people are being fed propaganda and in turn the dollar is going to hell as are the rest of our freedoms. I don’t think we should give up our freedoms in order to be safer, when all the government is trying to do is take us over from within.
“The Founding Fathers would have never stood for what is going on and would have thrown Bush and his buddies out on their ears. I think the people of Ohio are starting to wake up and I do not intend to stop talking about how I feel on that talk radio show.”
Besides the strange raid on Stout’s property, the radio station giving the thumbs up to air the controversial truth-telling radio program in the traditionally conservative heartland also has reported mysteriously having its transmitter knocked out on two occasions from “two mysterious bolts of lightening.”
.... And Stout, who many people in the community believe had his civil rights violated by law enforcement officials for voicing his regularly on WAIF, had one last message to President Bush before getting to the bottom of why officials illegally swarmed down on his private property:
“I don’t intend to trade of security for my rights as an American. I believe we need to take our country back from these thugs and brown shirts before or jobs, our financial security and our lives are taken away from us right before our very eyes.
“I want the American people to know that a lot of other people here in Ohio feel like I do and also know the election was stolen by Bush. He is losing popularity because a lot of people over here are finally starting to see through his lies, lies that are costing young American lives every day this illegal war continues.” | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/18/2008 6:15:59 PM | How about house resolution 1955 according to alternet.org/rights/73991/
A bill drafted in regards to terrorism or rather the right that are subjugated to supposedly keep us safe from homegrown terrorists.Which gives power to a panel and/or the president to decide who or what constitutes a terroristic act from
peaceful demonstrators to people voicing dissent on tv, radio ,mail,or cyberspace. | |
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| Is the USA in danger of becomeing as bad as Nazi Germany *
Posted: 1/19/2008 7:21:31 AM | USA is fast becoming a fascist nation like Germany was in the 30's because fascism works and the Republicans know this. They are too afraid to admit their worst fears. That they are becoming fascists.
Fascism works because the government is in total control. Everyone is obedient and too afraid to challenge the government (aka. the weak willed Democrats). You can arrest, deport and even kill dissidents (aka. "War on Terror"). Freedom of speech is monitored and limited. Propoganda is everywhere (aka. Fox News). You can intimidate and scream at people who oppose Bush (aka. all programs on Fox News). And you can pretend to be victims of a "madman with WMD" to justify invading his country and pretending to be "liberating" his people, when we're in fact, killing them daily. | |
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