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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 4/6/2008 8:47:55 PM | Yep! they are out there
got a nephew like that
rather lie then breath
~ for no obvious reason ~ ????
he was slow to speak ~ let his sisters speak for him
he was pandered ~ by his older sisters
by three he started talking ~ been lieing ever since.
he's now 28 ~ and still lieing ~ dar
makes no sense?? ~ he just lies | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 4/13/2008 2:48:02 PM | | Some of these types are also sociopathic. They tend to have no conscience, which enables them to so easily lie. Others, just begin to believe their own lies. Repeated often enough, it becomes their reality and way of life. It's always a shock to those of us who are a little on the trusting, naive side. The funny thing is with trusting personalities, no matter how savvy they become, they always trust. Personally, I'm shocked every time I encounter a liar. You'd think I'd not be that way, but I just have of those personalities. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 4/13/2008 3:27:38 PM | Some of these types are also sociopathic. They tend to have no conscience, which enables them to so easily lie.
Very true. Just did a quick hit web search on both pathological liars and sociopaths (which is really a psychopath) and I find the parallels quite interesting. So, sorry in advance for the long post but it's relevant.
Pathological Liar
A pathological liar is usually defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others. Pathological lying is often viewed as coping mechanism developed in early childhood and it is often associated with some other type of mental health disorder. A pathological liar is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused - it is done to get one's way). Pathological liars have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others. A pathological liar often comes across as being manipulative, cunning and self-centered.
Source: truthaboutdeception
Charming, entertaining, witty
Sociopaths look and act like your best friend
If you expect sociopaths to have a crazy or sinister appearance, you're sadly mistaken. Sociopaths look non-descript, average or attractive—just like anybody else.
Sociopaths come from all walks of life—including well-educated, well-off families. Many sociopaths, therefore, have good social graces. They know how to dress and how to behave in polite society.
This doesn't stop them from lying, cheating and stealing. On the contrary, it makes their deceptions easier. Sociopaths from middle-class or privileged backgrounds often excel at white collar crime—fraud, phony stock schemes, embezzlement.
Why sociopaths are hard to recognize
1. They're fluent talkers (liars). Even when caught in a lie, they change their stories without skipping a beat.
2. They're totally comfortable in social situations and cool under pressure.
3. They use family or business connections to make themselves appear legitimate.
4. They often become, or pretend to be, lawyers, physicians, teachers, counselors and artists. Most of us generally assume people in these positions are trustworthy.
5. They're happy to exaggerate—or fabricate—credentials. Few of us check their references.
6. They will say absolutely anything—"I love you," "You can trust me," "I'll never do it again." The words, to them, mean absolutely nothing.
Sub-criminal Sociopaths:
According to Dr. Robert Hare, many sociopaths (he prefers the term "psychopaths") behave in a way that is technically not illegal, but violates conventional ethical standards. Dr. Hare calls these cases "subcriminal."
"They appear to function reasonably well—as lawyers, doctors, psychiatrists, academics, mercenaries, police officers, cult leaders, military personnel, businesspeople, writers, artists, entertainers and so forth—without breaking the law, or at least without being caught and convicted. These individuals are every bit as egocentric, callous and manipulative as the average criminal psychopath; however, their intelligence, family background, social skills and circumstances permit them to construct a façade of normalcy and to get what they want with relative impunity."*
These subcriminal sociopaths rarely go to prison or any other facility.
If you're dealing with a person who exhibits some of these traits, put your guard up. If that person shows many or all of these traits, get him or her out of your life.
Source: lovefraud
And:
Accept the reality that a sociopath will never change.
You cannot cure him with your love. You cannot change yourself and expect him to be satisfied. You cannot make him understand how you feel and how much he hurts you. He really doesn't care. (All of this applies to female sociopaths as well as male.)
To a sociopath, you are just "supply." You are a source of money, sex, housing, business connections, or whatever else he is taking from you. Even though he says, "I love you," and "I'll never do it again," the words mean nothing. His sole objective is to keep the supply coming.
So what do you do? Cut your losses and get out.
P.S. Some risks are simply not worth taking. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 4/13/2008 6:01:53 PM | I encountered one of these about a year ago,and he's back on POF again looking for "friends"...must be bored and looking for next victim ...grrrrr... coward.
KARMA tho , is a good thing :) | |
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| Pathological Liars - & a recent book about a bigamist
Posted: 4/14/2008 6:47:52 AM | hi,
Crystal Bear's advice on how to spot and how to avaoid pathological liars (or sociopaths, and apparetly 1 in 20 people have sociopathic tendancies so we all must know some) is excellent.
It's not just hearts they break - - they can take your house and not only your own but also your families savings). For a recent account, published by Mainstream on 31 March 2008 I recommend Mary Turner Thomson's book, "The Bigamist" . I ordered it (for £6.00 (inc P&P) from play dot com and a tuesday evening and it was delivered on the saturday morning - - and I read it the same day. As well as recommending meeting the friends, family and colleagues of prospective significant others at an early stage in a relationsgip the author recommends checking out identities, dates of birth and where registered to vote etc by subscribing to 192 dot com. if they claim to be professionals then this may be confirmed gratis via their professional association's webs site ( eg the law society of scotland) and if they claim to be company directors you can search the companies house database for a modest fee.
As sodgers say, "Time spent on reconnaissance is seldom wasted". (In Argentina it's common for young women to ask their pals to check out prospective boyfriends by observing how they behave with their male friends in public and how they treat women. )
A few years ago friend in Leith discovered that her airline pilot boyfriend had a girlfriend in Penicuick and another in Yorkshire. These three women met and invited him round for a surprise party. A newly discoverd fourth lover in Belfast was unable to join them. On seeing his three lovers sitting round the same kitchen table he said to his hostess, "How dare you pry into my private life!". She replied, "But darling, we are your private life!"
Take care and best wishes from,
Stuart
BIGAMIST by THOMSON, MARY TURNER
Presents a true story of how one man manipulated an intelligent, independent woman, conning her out of GBP 200,000 and leaving her to bring up the children he claimed he could never have. This book reveals how the con man has been doing the same thing to various other women for at least 27 years.
Stock: Currently Out of Stock, Allow 7-10 Days for Delivery
Format: Paperback
Published: 03/04/2008
Publisher: MAINSTREAM PUBLISHING | |
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| Pathological Liars - & a recent book about a bigamist
Posted: 4/14/2008 7:44:13 AM | Hi Stuart,
Actually, the percentages of the number of true sociopaths within the general population are a bit intimidating. One source reports 1 in 25 and that only 1% is actually born already a sociopath. Another reports that mental health professionals estimate:
that 3% of men and 1% of women in the United States have ASP. That would be 4.3 million men and 1.5 million women, for a total of 5.8 million people.
ASP=anti-social personality disorder, basically a sociopath.
Here's a book that looks exceptional interesting on the subject:
The Sociopath Next Door: The Ruthless Versus the Rest of Us
Martha Stout
# Language: English
# ISBN-10: 0767915828
# ISBN-13: 978-0767915823
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| Pathological Liars - & a recent book about a bigamist
Posted: 4/14/2008 8:53:15 AM | The majority of behaviours attributed to pathological liars posted so far are not consistent with the current definition . Pathological lying has not been extensively researched, so many questions remain.
Two themes that recur on this thread are why they lie, and whether they know they are lying.
Why do they lie?
The motivation behind the lies is what makes pathological liars different from compulsive and habitual liars and confabulation.
Pathological liars lie for no obvious reason, not self-gain, not control, not manipulation, not self-aggrandizement, not to avoid, nor to hurt.
Do they believe their lies?
No consensus as yet.
Pathological liars can believe their lies to the extent that, at least to others, the belief may appear to be delusional; they generally have sound judgment in other matters; it is questionable whether pathological lying is always a conscious act and whether pathological liars always have control over their lies; an external reason for lying (such as financial gain) often appears absent and the internal or psychological purpose for lying is often unclear; the lies in pathological lying are often unplanned and rather impulsive; the pathological liar may become a prisoner of his or her lies; the desired personality of the pathological liar may overwhelm the actual one; pathological lying may sometimes be associated with criminal behavior; the pathological liar may acknowledge, at least in part, the falseness of the tales when energetically challenged; and, in pathological lying, telling lies may often seem to be an end in itself. However, it is evident that no single descriptive tableau of a pathological liar settles all the nosological and etiological questions raised by the phenomenon of pathological lying.post. Pathological Lying Revisited
Charles C. Dike, MD, MRCPsych, MPH, Madelon Baranoski, PhD and Ezra E. H. Griffith, MD, 2005 | |
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| Pathological Liars - & a recent book about a bigamist
Posted: 4/14/2008 1:39:36 PM | Why do they lie?
The motivation behind the lies is what makes pathological liars different from compulsive and habitual liars and confabulation.
Pathological liars lie for no obvious reason, not self-gain, not control, not manipulation, not self-aggrandizement, not to avoid, nor to hurt.
Not sure I completely agree or even disagree with that conclusion, even with the reference provided. First of all, pathological lying is not an actual diagnosis but a symptom of a deeper issue. Actually, it isn't even listed as a condition in the DSM-IV. Conclusively, it appears to be a consistent behavior of a sociopath with the specific intent to deceive their prey for a specific purpose.
Now there are other conditions that include pathological lying as an element of that disorder. DID being one example where the core person might not necessarily be cognitively aware they are lying in one sense, yet in another they are very much aware they are deceiving. Even if for no other motivation than they are afraid already that they are crazy with the time losses and such so rather than own up that they have no recall of having done such a thing and being perceived as crazy, the lie to make up a plausible story to cover what they really don't know. It's still deceit, and the gain is beyond the scope of self-preservation as even with irrefutable evidence to support that the person committed a certain act, rather that be truthful and say they don't have any recall of having done so, they lie.
The motivation is different, but they still know they are deceiving. DID is mental disorder that is extremely manipulative actually. And if DID is not recognized and treated early enough, these individuals can become sociopaths.
People who lie constantly are often called pathological liars. That's not an official clinical diagnosis, which means it's not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, or DSM-IV. But chronic lying in adults is often a manifestation of antisocial personality disorder (also known as sociopathy). Sociopaths are often deceitful and manipulative in order to gain personal profit or pleasure.
Sometimes an individual with dissociative identity disorder (DID), formerly known as multiple personality disorder, will deny doing things for which they have amnesia (don't remember). In such situations, the person may have no memory of doing X and swear up and down that it didn't happen. But anyone who actually saw the DID individual engaging in the disputed behavior will believe he or she is just lying. Obviously, the situation is more complicated than that. (Of course, some people with DID can also have sociopathic tendencies and intentionally lie about some things.)
Source: your total health.
And as far as DID? My first ex was and still is a sociopath (thankfully is so diminished mentally he doesn't even remember anything 5 minutes after it happens). Our daughter was diagnosed with DID by age 11 thereabouts and first indication of actual psychosis by age 15. Like father, like daughter. (and not for lack of trying to terminate his rights, even after her court-appointed attorney brought in evidence of how sick he really was, the court refused to terminate "because he is her father" ). At least she learned moral values from her mother which has kept her somewhat contained although how long is speculative at best as alcohol has progressively become her drug of choice, like her father. She's contained somewhat and manages her marriage with a husband on his third deployment to Iraq at present. When he's home, he avoids dealing with her as much as possible yet stays committed to the marriage.
Brilliant genius level IQ yet it's directed towards creating illusions. She had been in therapy most of her childhood to try to undo the damage her father did in her early years before I fled for both our lives when she was 4. She quit therapy age at 15 and no one can force anyone to help themselves, even a teen. She is far beyond help now even though on the surface she appears functional, but it's only an illusion. I have no more contact with her by my choice. All these years, she continues to idolize her father who in her eyes still walks on water and is amazingly still alive. There's nothing I can do to protect her children except to leave them in God's hands, as she is also. She'll be 30 this year.
At the end of the day, however, does it really matter whether or not there is a difference between pathological lying and a sociopath lying? No matter what the intent or even cognitive awareness of the person lying, it's still indicative that the person is not trustworthy and further indicative in adulthood of potentially very serious relationship risk with potentially very serious consequences to the partner continuing the relationship. The why behind the persistent lying behavior becomes redundant as the very behavior completely derails trust in the relationship and continuing a relationship with a persistent liar eventually will distort the other partner's reality over the long-term.
So often, IMO more a human nature approach, we get too focused on the "why" that we continue to overlook the relevance of the behavior. When making that decision on continuing a relationship or even marriage with a persistent liar, it's the behavior and it's persistence that rightfully should be the deciding factor more so than the why. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 4/14/2008 1:52:08 PM | | can this be a hereditary factor?? sorry had to ask! I dated a pathological liar for a long time and left him when I was 13 weeks pregnant cause I found out many many of his lies.. but I dont want my son to be like this!!!! | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 4/14/2008 5:18:35 PM | Good question, sunshine.. I don't know the answer. Please, don't be frightened for your son by my experience. Had I known in her infancy how seriously ill her father was and taken her and left, she would not have turned out the way she did.
My daughter's circumstances were initially the result of severe trauma and the domestic courts certainly contributed by acting too late. Not for lack of trying on my part and all I had initially was her statements when younger as well as her behaviors. After 8 years of being in court persistently on average once a month, the court finally appointed her an attorney who brought in the necessary evidence to permanently restrict his visitation to two hours a month supervised by me in a public place. This was a year after her therapist testified that I was an hysterical mother when my daughter told me about the target practice her and her father were doing in his home. The landlord brought in evidence to substantiate over 60 bullet holes in the ceiling of the master bedroom alone and I'll never forget the other evidence her attorney was able to obtain that I has a mother would never have been able to get.
In all of those years, I only filed two petitions and that was after the GAL brought the evidence onto court. The first to terminate his visitation rights which the court refused to do. The second to terminate his parental rights as the tangible evidence supported the necessity. They couldn't see past "he is her father and she has a right to a father" to act in her best interests.
Prevention of trauma to a child is worth everything and it starts with being discerning in who we associate with. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 4/14/2008 5:59:41 PM | | all liars are cowards...very interesting thot...how about,all liars are wimps,is that the same thing?...sometimes it's difficult to tell a wimp because they aren't wimps about everything,but in general,they let other people run their lives and then they badmouth them for taking over...but someone has to take over because they can't survive without someone..they blame everybody else for their actions and they hang around with people who are like them...so what does the enabler do?...they constantly walk on eggs...they have to constantly give out compliments and thank yous because if they don't the weirdo will crawl into their shell and not come out...and they will hate you because you aren't helping their self esteem,or lack of it..and that is exactly what the enabler does...tries to help the weirdo feel better about themselves so that they will amount to something....who can help these people?...God?...wretches as they are,but,often very successful in their manipulation games until everyone gets fed up with them and they hit rock bottom and commit suicide...or,maybe they just realize that they have no choice but admit that they have a problem...and ask forgiveness and for help....and they they find their next victim and they are up again...it's like depression..like being in a box....they can't get out until they realize that they are sick....and even then,who can help these people?...alcohol?..drugs?...I think not....the only answer is faith and hope and forgiveness and maybe a good punch in the head... | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 4/16/2008 3:23:10 PM | "This Joni47 is in fact the liar to beat all-----was still married----and a guy from butler area too!!!!! Imagine that.........."
 IMAGINE THIS
Mom was right.... I AM the most GULLIBLE  in the ocean!!
PlezePleze It is all is pure madness to    ... is emotionally & phyiscaly ill by this discovery! yet shall -n- the  anyway
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 6/27/2008 12:11:35 PM | | I didn't know he was married, but had suspected it. Charming, cunning liar, just out for sex. Will charm your pants right off, then become verbally abusive when he's finished with you. The worst kind of predator I've had the displeasure to meet. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 6/28/2008 11:06:36 PM | OMG the checklist is too damn accurate:
Lies when it is very easy to tell the truth.
Lies to get sympathy, to look beter, to save their butt, etc.
Fools people at first but once they get to know him, no one believes anything they ever say.
May have a personality disorder.
Extremely manipulative.
Has been caught in lies repeatedly.
Never fesses up to the lies.
Is a legend in their own mind.
________________
I know someone like this.....he lied about damn near everything he told me....and I kept finding out the truth. I gave him a million chances to tell the truth and he still hasn't done it. And to top it off, he can tell someone else to be honest?!?!?!?! Are you serious?!?!?! I don't even know how I can still talk to him lol guess I'm an idiot for falling in love with a liar. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:40:02 PM | I just recently met and dated a guy on here who could be classified as a pathological liar. He definitely had a number of the traits.
The things is, when someone is "sick" -- and I mean mentally, they might have the traits of a liar, a sociopath, a narcissit, but not fall into any one category.
What I know about the guy I recently met, which is true for any liar, is that inside he really doesn't like himself at all (which is why he lies to cover it up) -- he is very depressed, anxious (what liar at the risk of being caught at any moment isn't???), desperate and unfulfilled, full of fear and mistrust.
Lying, in my opinion is a control mechanism. when you don't feel good about yourself, you want to try to control your environment and people around you. You "think" you're the only person that knows what's going on and can influence other people.
The key for me is when things top making sense. The truth is easy and simple. Lies are complicated and make less sense over time.
This guy didn't waste much of my time because of that. As I started to question a lot of his stories, he got angry, anxious, intolerant, defensive -- in short, he started to show his true colors.
Most liars will "turn" when back into a corner.
Ask them to explain themselves and then just sit back and watch their tail spin. (Pardon the pun!)  | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:17:28 PM | They also lie so people feel sorry for them. Sick part they think what they are doing is ok in their mind. I think it has alot to do with their mothers. My ex's mother used to tell her three sons how beautiful they were. OMG... Kinda sick when you think about it. Yes I think my sons are easy on the eyes, but I wouldnt care if they were not. I would rather have a son that had inner beauty. My ex took his son away from his mother and after he got him he didnt want much to do with him, he just didnt want her to have him. He is on this site. He says he is white, even posted a picture that was white along with two of him. Says he is 52 when he is 47. As far as I know he is divorced. He put on here he is a widow. What lengths people go thru to get a date??? I could care less if I ever dated again if I ever ran into someone like him again. 
So watch out ladys. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck it probably is a duck. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:30:06 PM | | Well, my ex had borderline personality disorder and he fit all that criteria....his nickname is "the fabricator". | |
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dnk8
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Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 294 | |
| Pathological Liars
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:40:33 PM | OH MY GOD!
I met a guy on this site in Oct 2008 who was everything in a pathological liar that has been described on here. he swept me off my feet telling me all the stuff he could do for me which was everything I had been hoping for and within a month he had manipulated me into moving in with him in Ellenbrook (with my 4 year old daughter) - giving up my rental property and my furniture, quitting my job, selling my car.........He let my dog out and she got killed when she was hit by a car, I think he took my 13 year old cat and dumped it in the bush.......he had me go down to the car yard and buy a brand new $40K car - of course the finance never came thru, the house we lived in he moved in fully furnished so owned nothing but the clothes on his back but I thought he owned the house and everything in it plus 2 more and we signed up to buy a house together too. I worked out something was wrong when the real estate guy came looking for him (coz my OH was away at work) for the deposit...................so many things I just couldnt mention. After two months living with him I still hadnt pinned him for anything specific and I told him I didnt trust him to the end of the street and I was outta there and I left with my daughter with nothing and started again. Turns out this guy has done time in jail 3 times in at least 2 states for fraud, was 6 years younger than he told me he was, his family wasnt anything that he said, he had never had contact with the son he probably pretended to talk to on the phone, he had been bankrupt twice and the list goes on. The cops actually had a warrant for his arrest and after I left him he ended up booking a plane using the company he was working for and fleeing the state with the company laptop, fuel card, mobile phone. He ripped off me, his boss and the property the developer he was "buying" all the properties off. I havent found him back on here yet but I'm sure he is - with a different name and different age and different profile in a different state, but he never puts up a pic. Thats what I get for trusting ppl at face value. | |
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dnk8
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Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 295 | |
| Pathological Liars
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:55:14 PM | | I actually wonder how many ppl on this forum topic have come across the same guy I did on this site. It certainly wasnt the first time he had involved ppl in his "pretend" life and it wouldnt be his last. I 'm sure he took off to start another set of circumstances and build another "life" for himself. He is professional at creating an imaginary set of circumstances. Thing is he had a legitimate amount of excuses and information to make everything sound hunky dory. He had a well paying job in a big industry and looked legitimate! He could have legitimately had a really good life and been able to afford houses and cars. He even had me arrange and book our wedding on the beach in QLD. He even paid a deposit on a $6000 engagement ring at solid gold! All part of the farce tho. Nothing ever actually came about. After he had taken off I even got the bill from the vet from when I took my dog in after she was hit by a car and died two days before xmas - of course he had told me he had paid that bill. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 7/30/2008 5:16:04 AM | | Oh ya, I met and moved for one. And once it was over within 3 days of me moving, it was AMAZING the things I was told about him. The places he hung out, and people that knew him, it was SCARY. Lies about small things and big things, total Narcissist. Yet he claimed his "ex" was the one with the problem. Even SHE said watch out! They are legends in their own mind, which is even worse. Mine was supposvely a master plumber, self employed and had it all...little did I find out, he had NOTHING!!!!!!!!!! Just lived off mommy and daddy, and everyone else. Even tried taking money from me, saying he needed it for gas, etc...only to find out he was out in the bar getting drunk. People, do your research on these kind. They are dangerous. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 7/30/2008 5:19:50 AM | | LMFAO DNK< did we meet the same guy? Just kidding, yours had money, but we both had the same other drama. It totally sucks. They are preditors. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 7/30/2008 6:38:34 PM | | They get so good at lieing you can't tell what is and is not and usally they need your help telling more lies. Don't ever become friends with people like this you may think it will change with time but from my experience its not possible...... | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 7/30/2008 6:53:20 PM | | your x must be the same as one of my X's....these type of people generally put you down too in order to build them selves up. my x didn't think i was smart pretty attractive or sexy.. always pointing out my flaws.. and telling me how wonderful every one around us was with the exception of me. i hope he gets the mental help he needs but i doubt he will. | |
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