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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 11/13/2006 3:59:59 AM |
dont believe in bipolar we all have our ups n downs i think its just an excuse to bend the truth
To put it mildly, this is a ridiculous statement. There are varying degrees of bipolar. Once you encounter a severe case and witness it for yourself you would see, especially in the manic phase, when the delusions start screwing up your friend's life cause he is convinced of the impossible. It is not imagined, but believed in his mind. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 11/13/2006 4:11:55 AM |
dont believe in bipolar we all have our ups n downs i think its just an excuse to bend the truth
To put it mildly, this is an uneducated statement. There are varying degrees of bipolar. Once you encounter a severe case and witness it for yourself you would see, especially in the manic phase, when the delusions start screwing up your friend's life cause he is convinced of the impossible. It is not imagined, but believed in his mind. It is easy to be tempted to pass it off, because in mild cases, the effects are purely subjective. But to conclude it does not exist because you cannnot imagine it is not a good attidude to have. It is the same as denying the existence of someone experiencing severe pain because there is no visible cause. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 11/13/2006 8:02:49 AM | Lol just described in part and full most of my ex's maybe thats why I got rid of them and got over them so quickly! | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/12/2007 10:19:05 AM | | This is all interesting, I knew there was something wrong with some one that I have met a few months ago. The problem is that I kept seeing him, I knew there was something wrong, and I was so determined to figure it out. Now I am too deep into it, as I discovered maybe too late that it all boils down to him being a pathological liar, behind his back I discovered these elements. My determination now has me thorn on what do I do. Drop him after trying to create a friendship all this time, confront him with his lies to see what happens (that will not be pretty)?? Confused!!!! As a pathological liar, is one that one can not trust, yet I seem more determined. I don't know why as I know inside nothing will come of it but that he will disappear eventually BUT why does he stay around and keep lying cause he thinks I believe when I don't ????? My determination has caught me off guard and now I have to be cured.......... | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/12/2007 6:49:03 PM | | They will tell a lie when the truth fits better. They get to the point they believe their own lies. Don't let yourself get angry at yourself for believing him, but when you start seeing the lies, disconnect ASAP...they will never "reform." God bless. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/13/2007 7:08:54 AM | You described my S/O to the tee.
I son't think she even knows whether she's telling the truth or not. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/13/2007 1:53:19 PM | "Pathological liars" are usually not ONLY liars--there is a good thread on here about Narcissistic people. Most of the "liar" catagory also have a personality disorder. Though this effects their emotions, etc. it is NOT a "mental illness"--like depression or bi-polar (manic depressive was the old name). There are many kinds of "personality disorder" and range from Narcissistic, Border-line, anti-social (also called: psychopathic, sociopathic) These people actually have little if any conscience, and there is quite a large component of this which is inherited. In a sociopathic/psychopathic personality disorder they are manipulative and totally self centered. They are incapable of "empathy"--they do not see any "problem" with lies to get what they want. They will use them in an attempt to manipulate you to get what they want. They have no awareness that they do not have the right to get what they want, regardless of how this hurts another person. They just DON'T have the CAPACITY to CARE. Society's rules do not apply to them. THEY have special priviledge, they are the only one that counts.
I suggest to anyone who has dealt with a pathological liar that they get onto google and look for "personality disorder" and LEARN the signs of this. It is the only way to protect yourself from these people.
After years and years in the psychological medical profession, I have come to the conclulsion that ANYONE who lies to me is FOREVER out of my "circle of trust."
I realize that everyone will "lie" under certain circumstances--"does this dress make me look fat, dear?"---you BETTER lie! But when ANY ADULT lies to me to cover up some illegal or immoral behavior, then my trust level goes to ZERO, and at that point, I MAY give them "notice" that I am aware of the lie and that the BOUNDARY is set--if they ever lie to me about anything (and at that point I start keeping close tabs on what they say) they are absolutely out of my life--"do not pass go and do not collect $200."
I have in the past given "second changes" to people for lying (serious lies, not "white lies") and 99% of the time have lived to regret it. Not all liars are pathological, but all liars, or people who are dishonest at heart, are NOT people I want in my "circle of trust" or in my life in any significant way.
I am much better off if I delete these people from my life. In the end, it doesn't matter WHO they are--how they are related, by blood or marriage, if they are liars, I don't need or want them. No matter how much it "costs" in terms of pain to delete them from your life, in the end, it is CHEAPER. And the earlier you delete them, the better, and the lower the cost. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/13/2007 3:13:30 PM | Unfortunately, capn, I believe you are incorrect. There is no cure for these types they perceive themselves as perfect and will go to any means to hide the pathetic shell they live in. They don't care who they hurt or how much they hurt others, they never feel remorse and have no conscience. Check out this website:
http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org
There are thousands who can testify. It is especially heartbreaking for the children of these types.
Thank you Ox. Only someone who has been victimized by these types or sees them under a microscope can believe these disgusting creatures exist. Most people can't understand it because they can't even imagine human beings that think in the world they are in. They are crafty, manipulative and polished LIARS. The only thing you can do is trust your intuition and RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!
mthankful | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/13/2007 7:59:33 PM | | Wow....you could be absolutely talking about my ex-boyfriend. Every word you said describes him to a tee. Funny thing is, even though I know now what he was, I still keep trying to hold on to the fact that something had to be real about him and I still keep beating myself up for not seeing him for what he was, and believing in him so explicitly even way after my family and friends tried to tell me. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/13/2007 8:30:41 PM | I certainly thought you were talking about my boyfriend?? of 8 months, supposedly
we were "committed" to our relationship, as he asked in the first 6 weeks if I wanted to get married or engaged. When I said "no" because it was too soon he asked me to be "committed". I was very stupid in not knowing what that ploy was and what he used it for.
He was so good at making you feel sorry for him. His first wife had an affair with his best friend then took his kids away so that he never got to have a relationship with his first two kids. Then the 2nd one wasnt good to the first 2 kids, was mean to the girl and never wanted them around, ended up having affairs on him and was a slob, then the 3rd, she was just a poor girl, couldnt hardly feed the 3 kids she already had, was mousey but a good cook, so he thought she would be so grateful for raising her kids instead of his own that she wouldnt run around on him but she did, then he married one of them again, the 2nd I think, because she couldnt handle the kids and they were already getting in trouble, but she run on him again, then to the 5th wife, she was poor, had 2 girls that he helped put through college, was a shrew and a nagger and "browbeat"him about his ex wifes that he still helped and the kids he had that was always costing money because they were always in trouble.
He just made you feel so sorry for him, if he ever had a chance to find a "good" woman he would do anything in the world for her.
Well, the first ploy was that : he just wanted a place to move into where he could do a little outside work for her and do a little handywork and have a free place to live.
Because he was so stingy with his money that he turned the heat down to 50 degrees in the winter, stayed in the bathroom most of the day, wore a hat and mittens plus sweats and another coat just to keep from turning up the heat. He only ate hot dogs because they were cheat and sometimes peanut butter and crackers. That is if he had to buy the groceries but if you were buying them then he liked his nice lunch on time right at 12 oclock and his nice dinner right at 5 oclock, chicken and noodles, chili, homemade vegetable soup, etc. He never ran the air in the summer, in the house or in the car, no matter what.
And the married,engaged, or committed was just to have sex. A relationship didnt matter in the slighest to him. It was just a way to get sex. Because even when he was married when things didnt go his way he would leave for weeks at a time then when he decided to come back he would just waltz in like the woman should be so grateful that he was back he could again do just what he wanted and nothing more.
He has infection in his body but wont go to the doctor for it to be treated because his VA disability wont pay for it and he is not about to pay a doctor. Hes bi polar but he wont see about that either because again he isnt about to pay for a doctor.
But he wants to kid himself and say he NEVER lies to anybody.
That he is GOOD to everybody.
That his kids are no good and just want money constantly from him, which they do.
But he wont admit to himself that instead of being there for THEM when they needed him he was out chasing a__ again.
So, ladies, if you want company bad enough to keep somebody and pay the bills and do the work then find rayray 4 04 and you will have one. Oh, yes, one other thing, even though he asks you to be "committed" that does not mean he wont be on the internet "again, just talking" to ladies because he just wants to be friendly and chat.
Just because the woman thinks that he is trying to get to know her so that maybe in the future there would be a realtionship in the picture, she is just imagining that because he never said a word to lead her to believe a thing like that, WHY he is with you and he wouldnt do a thing like that and if you think that was what he was up to then you are wrong because he dont lie and he dont cheat, just ask the ladies on Yahoo Singles what he says.
Good Luck ladies you can have him.
" | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/13/2007 8:35:07 PM | | Well, I know that. I did not realize he was bi polar until the winter started. Then I questioned him about his symptoms. He acknowledged that he was diagnosed bi polar by the Army but they would not pay for his counseling and medicine and he was not about to pay for it himself. So, to date, he is just like he was. And he is screwed up in his thinking. Do you think a grandfather should ask his daughter if his grandaughter has had sex yet and still a "good girl". Plus many other screwed up things he does, mainly in the winter months. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/13/2007 9:20:13 PM | Message #183--mthankful--thanks for recommending that forum on psychopath, it is GREAT! I signed up and read and read and read. For those of you with liars, narcissists, psychopaths, and just pain "mean sobs" go read this forum it is wonderful and you won't feel so crazy and alone---these people are human vampire bats and will suck you dry. The lying is only a SYMPTOM of a personality disorder. Read and LEARN ABOUT THESE PEOPLE, because you will come to see a pattern in this kind of behaivor and be better able to protect yourself from them.
Don't try to convince yourself that you are "nuts" and that they are "right" or that you can "get through to them"--can't be done.
Knowledge is amunition to avoid them, it is your only defense. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 3:34:40 AM | Your welcome Ox. This site saved my life. I return to it from time to time because it has good information. I still have to deal with the sick one since we have a young son. What is so devastating is that the courts buy their stories; and while councillors tell you to "disengage" the justice system insists you "work it out". Their is no working it out with these pitiful empy souls as they are incapable of caring.
Dear Mss Sunshine, you are absolutely correct. And while everyone who has encountered these people have different stories, much is the exact same. They use pity to get your buy in. They are never responsible for anything that has ever happened to them...and eventually we find out all the lies and the cheating and the abuse...this was all of what happened to everyone they encountered before you and will happen to everyone who encounters them after. Sad part is they get "smarter" hide things better, learn from the past and become better liars, cheaters, and abusers.
I liked your post because you truly understand and you will never be victimized by these types again. Bravo!
mthankful | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 4:08:29 AM | it is an excellent idea for people to learn about these personality traits so you can see this in a person before you become victimized, or rather traumatized from them.
it falls under the category of "Cluster B Personality traits"...Narcissistic, Borderline Personality Disorder, sociopaths, Histrionic all fall under this Cluster of personality
traits...Check it out and you will see some of these traits in yourselves..we all have them to a degree, but as you see some have them "severely" and long lasting which constitutes the diagnosis of "disorder"...and only a very small percentage of people recover from these personality disorders...
and I would like to add to this absurd ignorant comments from a posting
aways back and another posting has stated something as well
the posting said and i quote:
" dont believe in bipolar we all have our ups n downs i think its just an excuse to bend the truth"...
that is like saying..I don't believe in diabetes, we all have change in our blood sugars,
no excuse for using Insulin...
what a moron...it is just so frustrating to read such nonsense and the bulk of people with Bipolar disorder, which is NOT a personality disorder, are completely stable with the new medications that are available and
the disease comes in degrees and given that I am Bipolar I should know these things and resent that "IGNORANT" comment from that posting...stupid ass...
and I just read yet another posting from such an idiot he probably deleted his profile becuase he got so many furious e-mails so for the record
PEOPLE DONT LIE AND DON'T HAVE PERSONALITY DISORDERS
WHO ARE BIPOLAR...I just can't believe the utter stupidity and ignornace I see towards Bipolar disporder in these forums..stupid F'ing morons... | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 4:56:06 AM | It isn't just guys that can be "pathological" (rather a strong word, I think) liars - there are women who are deceitful. I know.
My thoughts are that relationships are very compliceted and we as people are constantly changing and so are our needs (or so we think) from life. Lying is far too easy for many and it is much easier than confronting one's partner and discussing issues/problems. When the spark leaves a relationship and the realtionship becomes routine I think it is potentially the beginning of the end of the realtionship. Each partner frequently needs to show love, respect and spontaneity to keep the relationship "fresh".
People do seem to be less communicative, more self-centred and willing to give up on a relationship quickly (forgetting what enjoyable things established it in the first place) and this leads to a breakdown of the truth and trust in a relationship.
Just a brief response,
Kev | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 5:01:45 AM | | well, now that we've established the name of the disease that these liars have, can we figure out what kind of sickness would cause someone to be continually attracted to this type. unfortunately that would be me. you're post describes my ex-husband to a "T". it also perfectly describes 80-90% of the rest of the guys i've ever dated. it's not that i go out looking for this type at all. in fact, one thing i haven't seen mentioned in your post is that a lot of these guys are very good actors and talented in the beginning, in that they're able to appear very sincere at first. while i am experienced in dealing with these kinds, you'd think i should be able to see the signs right off the bat and steer clear, but i'm usually well into things before i realize and think, "oh no, not again" at least nowadays, i pack it in as soon as the signs present themselves. in the old days, i'd have stuck around far too long, trying to heal THEM instead of looking out for myself. the saddest part of all of this for me though, is that all this experience has jaded me and destroyed my level of trust to the point where i feel suspicious all the time. sometimes that suspicion might be directed at people who deserve a little more faith. | |
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atlast
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Joined: 2/25/2007
Msg: 192 | |
| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 5:27:47 AM | Here are a few excerps from "The Psychopath: The Mask of Sanity" that I find very enlightening. According to what I read in the forums, quite a few POF members have fallen prey to sociopaths, especially the women, who seem more trusting than men.
Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.
And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.
Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.
You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.
In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.
You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.
Crazy and frightening - and real, in about 4 percent of the population....
The prevalence rate for anorexic eating disorders is estimated a 3.43 percent, deemed to be nearly epidemic, and yet this figure is a fraction lower than the rate for antisocial personality. The high-profile disorders classed as schizophrenia occur in only about 1 percent of [the population] - a mere quarter of the rate of antisocial personality - and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say that the rate of colon cancer in the United States, considered "alarmingly high," is about 40 per 100,000 - one hundred times lower than the rate of antisocial personality.
The high incidence of sociopathy in human society has a profound effect on the rest of us who must live on this planet, too, even those of us who have not been clinically traumatized. The individuals who constitute this 4 percent drain our relationships, our bank accounts, our accomplishments, our self-esteem, our very peace on earth.
Yet surprisingly, many people know nothing about this disorder, or if they do, they think only in terms of violent psychopathy - murderers, serial killers, mass murderers - people who have conspicuously broken the law many times over, and who, if caught, will be imprisoned, maybe even put to death by our legal system.
We are not commonly aware of, nor do we usually identify, the larger number of nonviolent sociopaths among us, people who often are not blatant lawbreakers, and against whom our formal legal system provides little defense.
http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=16812
When I read this article, I immediately thought of some of the posts I have read. I hope this will be helpful. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 5:31:15 AM | I would like to thank you for posting this material. I have been trying to come to terms with what happened in my last relationship - apart from having a broken heart the mysterys - of which there are still very many, play on my mind all the time.
My relationship finished six months ago and I experienced 2.5 years of this. The illusion only started to fall away right at the end of the relationship and I can really say that I have been living in a complete illusion for 2.5 years.
I was really suprised that when confronted on lies how deeply nasty she became and also that although the evidence is damning that she could never own up to the facts. Unfortunately I still have some affairs to sort out with her and she will try and squeeze in as much one up-manship continues in phone conversations. All these things fit, including what she has said to me to other people, including embelishing things to make me look more negative.
I can't say outright that she is compulsive liar or has a personality disorder but I think that she has strong traits in this direction. Anyway, your post helps to make alot more sense of the situation for me, it is very much appreciated. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 5:33:50 AM | Hey Burnt angel regarding repetitive cheats and liars in your life, you did mention how you use to hang around and try and rescue them, from healing etc...
Your type and my type of personality traits can be "targets" for these type of people and I don't know if you have read anything on codependency but, it does help to educate yourself on these matters to see where you are behaving to feed the patterns
hey, I have had my share as well! lololol and people who fit into the category of codependency often end up with very troubled people...
Also, message no.9 she sounds A-Typical in Cluster B Borderline traits...
my guess is you are dealing with someone with a personality disorder
hang in there, it is almost over. i have been there as well... | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 5:53:53 AM |  hi read what you had to say i agree totally i am married to that guy ! i was on a big rbound when i met him and eventhe very first night he told me he was a manager not he had a daughter not even his name was wrong but i felt needy and went along with it for i some how felt i deserved him for my first husband leaving me . now 14 tears on and married he has not changed in fact he is worse he will tell a lie to cover a lie and even if i catch him red handed with wittnesses he then will turn on me and say i had pushed him into it for example his latest my phone bill with loads of unknown phone numbers turns out to be massage parlours of cousre his first defence was to say i rung them !secind becaus no one else to blame he swore he had not visited them and that it was my fault as he was not getting any at home and that it was just a funny prank yes it is rare we have sex but it is him who pushes me away !!!and becaus he is in the dog house has not gone to work of course my fault as he feels guilty ???? and of course a marathon drinking binge because of me finding /investigating calls he would kneel at the feet of god and lieeven small things like did you have the last buiscuet he will say no even thogh there is no one else in the house to take it!!!why cant he just say yes i did why did you want it SIMPLE EH !no not him and he will keep it up for days plus sulking | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 6:03:33 AM | | sorry the comment i made at the end of my posting isn't posting no. 9 it is for desirablemark and his plight... | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 6:25:45 AM | | yes, INSURGENT 4 YOU...definitely codependency fits. it's a word i know well too, as thrown into the mix of liars and cheats, have been the odd alcohol and substance abuse folks too. i'm well acquainted with the 12 step program available to friends and families of them. hence the reason i spend far more time these days trying to heal myself, than trying to heal the rest of the world. | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 7:54:30 AM | I know what you are experiencing, as I was married to one for 15 years. I have been divorced from her for 7 years & am still finding out things I did not know!! I finally had to put in my mind that SHE Does Not Exist, and haven't said a word to her in almost a year. (we have 3 children) She has also used my kids against me in every way all the while thinking she hasn't done a Thing wrong. Her Dad told me before I married her that "she will LIE TO YOU, but you know how that goes..............lol Every 6 months of our marriage I would catch her in a Major Lie . They also will mirror anything you say to them concerning their behavior & put the blame on you. Best thing you can do is let em GO.............  | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 8:11:37 AM | hard to figure out when someone is lying to you when there whole family lies also, yep a whole family of pathalogical liar's, and the worse part about it is they think its funny, "a family trait" so to speak, I listened to that for 18 years before I figured out he had another woman on the side and the whole family knew and incouraged it... try that one on and see what happens to your self esteem ... I still wonder sometimes how many lies I missed, even the part where he said he loved me.... all lies took me 18 years to get the message, but when I finally did , I realized everything about the 18 years was in fact a lie ......... shame on me! | |
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| Pathological Liars
Posted: 5/14/2007 8:13:00 AM | | Yes I totally agree with you because my ex boyfriend was exactly that and more....manipulative is not the word....lies after lies, at one point scary....this had never happened to me and never will I accept such a creepy person again....oh ya when there with you and close their cell's or answer and say hello hello hello nobody's there look out..................he's hiding stuff....I could tell you more I heard them all so if anybody needs help I'm here............................... | |
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