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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/22/2006 2:16:03 PM | | This thread has been done before. An "ex getting raped" and all the wannabe Billy Jacks offer their advice. You either help in a constructive way or I hope you wind up in jail with those losers. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/22/2006 2:50:07 PM | | i agree with you mate if this girl has been raped then firstly she should tell her currently bf and family and then she should tell the police all crimes like rape should be reported and really she should go ahead and report it and to only tell her ex bf about this incident and put it all on his shoulders isnt really being fair she should report this matter as soon as she can so the people who done this to this girl can be taken off the streets before they are able to rape again. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/22/2006 4:00:42 PM | First of all, it sounds like she is going to need counseling if she hasn't already gotten it. You can support her, but you are not the one to give that counseling, psych classes or not. She needs a counselor who specializes in this kind of trauma. Also a medical checkup so she can get treated if she got an STD.
If she knows the perps, she should go to the cops even if they can't press charges. If they did it to her, they will do it again and again until they get caught. Once they have a complaint on record, the cops will be more inclined to believe the next victim, even if they can't do anything about it in this case. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/22/2006 6:11:19 PM | Without her cooperation, it will be difficult for the police to accept the case for investigation, but not impossible. At a minimum, what you'll need is to identify witnesses who can credibly testify that she was sufficiently drunk so as not to be able to give consent, plus some other proof (a witness? - Did anyone walk in on them?) that the event happened. Don't be surprised if the police decline - it's their call.
Have NO CONTACT with the two suspects. Stay away from them.
The above assumes that you want to get involved - which I assume since you posted asking what to do. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/22/2006 6:20:07 PM | | Talk to the police yourself. Explain the situation. They have people trained to deal with this who may be able to talk confidentially with your friend. Then tell her what you have done and what you think. This should not be overlooked. It affects all of us as humans. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/22/2006 10:13:47 PM | Wow..... I read through every single post here. My overall conclusion: what a sad, sad, SAD world we live in.
Somebody says, "I got robbed" and you automatically believe it.....
Somebody says, "Someone stole my cell phone/digital camera" and you think... 'that's terrible, I'm so sorry...how?'
Somebody confides in a long time close friend of being raped and wow...... claws, anger, suspicions, doubt, inappropriate comments, and a complete and total lack of human compassion and empathy lingers and makes the air stale and distasteful.
Tanbury.... the OP may not have wanted to say anything, but I certainly will because out of everyone's post, I found yours to be the most disgusting, insulting, and shameful. And although I won't WASTE too much of my time on it (because it is a waste when sure to fall on deaf ears) I will say I'm embarrassed and sad that there is someone out there in this world with that perspective. Generally, some of the wonders of diversity is having and sharing different opinions and perspectives - but in that post, you've pulled crap out of your ass that have no foundation on anything the OP said..... Get a grip girl.
As for the rest of the posts, some have great suggestions and some, well.... the thought and good intentions can be seen.
OP, you have a psych degree, know this girl, are in the situation and position to help.... and you are helping..... Ranting for yourself helps (I just went off in this post and needed to after reading some of this offensive stuff) so do what you need to do to help clear your head so you are better able to help her.
As far as people with the "I don't care" attitude, automatically thinking the worst of a victim, or to the individuals who actually commit these acts, I say.............. BEND OVER - Karma is a b*tch to those who deserve it. I believe what goes around, eventually will find it's way back around. This is the balance.
I work with people in crisis and or at-risk.... I see and hear stuff that sometimes I really could do without (how people are victimized by an offender and then again through the system sometimes) and I have to say...... sometimes people just don't fully understand until they've lived it.
Sometimes I have had a fleeting thought that the only way a rapist would understand how it felt and the seriousness of the crime committed would be to get a nice big strap-on and make him scream like a b*tch.
I'm sorry for this post to be as heated and strong as it is... but there are some things I feel passionate about..... No one asks to be a victim - it is beyond their control..... It is an act committed against them and against their will.
It is the courts and police's responsibility to investigate and determine merit and outcome.
It is the responsibility of friends and family to support that person the best way possible through the process and challenges ahead unconditionally - without judgement.
*sighs* | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/22/2006 11:55:00 PM | THANK YOU UrDarkSecret, for saying everything I thought as I read through the posts!
And everyone stop telling the OP what the victim SHOULD do.She needs to do what is best for her
That being said, OP, the thing that she SHOULD do immediately is get tested for std's and pregnancy. Best to get treatment now than when something is so far along she is made sterile, or worse.
What would be very helpful for her to do is get counselling, she went through a terrible violation, she more than likely is suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and could really use the help of a trained counsellor. A Rape Crisis Center would also be able to guide her through the legal system - explain what needs to happen, and possibly support her during a trial.
To those who doubted the victim's situation - I hope that you never have someone come to you! The last thing a victim of sexual assault needs is to be doubted by those she loves and trusts, or to be blamed "you shouldn't have been drinking" "what were you doing at a party w/o your partner" My god! Women have been raped in their own homes while asleep in their beds! Real estate agents showing houses! Guests at a party! As women, we have to be wary of everyone, we have to look at "every" man as a potential rapist. I don't mean being paranoid freaks, its just a fact of life that we are potential victims, no matter what the situation.
OP - Good for you, being there for her, letting her cry, supporting her in whatever decision she makes, that is a true friend!
Best wishes to you both. | |
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-P-
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Joined: 6/6/2006
Msg: 85 | |
| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 12:05:46 AM | Appreciate the responses, and UDarkSecret - you're bang on in what I wanted to say, but my time was better spent talking to her at that point than in lashing out at ignorance.
She's told her family and bf.. the fam's really supportive, and the bf is too, but according to both her and him she'd rather I was the one that accompanied her to various appointments. We went to get all the tests done, etc yesterday. She's still apprehensive about being judged by the cops, especially since it's been a while, but I told her about the suggestion of at least filing a report in case they do it again and it looks like I'm taking her on Monday. So we'll see how it goes at that point. Having heard some horror stories of how some rape victims were badgered by the cops, I want to make sure I can be there in case they start going down that road and put a stop to it.
Other than that, she's holding up all things considered, and I've convinced her to go talk to a professional. Her family is taking care of that aspect.
Thanks again, and keep the advice flowing if you you've got any.
BTW, she knows I posted this. She doesn't want to read it, but she trusts that I kept it anonymous, and has no problem with it especially since it's helping me help her. As she said: "You have to deal with this too" | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 7:57:55 AM | Thank you Dehm, and -p- for your kind words...... I just couldn't have fathomed the extent of some attitudes in today's society; I thought the ways of such ignorance were long passed.
-p-, you're taking all the right steps in helping her.... This is about her and her health - mentally/emotionally and physically. She's the priority. So her agreeing to be tested is a good thing and a great second step (the first was in telling you. The worst thing some victims do is tell NO ONE anything and never deal with it. It ends up festering and destorying them.)
Ok.... so far, since she's confided in you: she's been tested, shared it with family and b/f, and is willing to make a report......
OP, depending on your area (her area) some police agencies can be less than sympathetic to a rape victim's needs especially considering the time delay in reporting. However, every area should have a sex crimes unit that are specifically trained to address these cases understanding the needs and challenges.
-p-, you are helping her in amazing ways, and you certainly have the empathy and knowledge base to continue this path with her, but......... My only worry is that boundaries will be crossed permanently and not only can you possibly get consumed with this, but her support system is then that much more limited.
This isn't what she should do (lose the word 'should' - it promotes guilt amongst many other things)....... For her own sanity and health, when she's ready she needs to see a rape crisis counselor - even if it's for just once. The support she receives from an agency and counselor that specialize in this area is comparable to NO OTHER. One of the things that will help her is expanding her support system so she's not feeling alone and can access a variety of people. She has choices. She needs to feel she has choices. Control was taken from her when the rape occured; she needs to feel empowered - to feel she has control of her life. The agency will carry her case for years to come and support her in therapy as well as any legal matters.
This brings me to the other matter, which is addressing your concern about the police’s potential response...... She has a choice....... If she approaches a rape crisis centre, she has a right to have the support of a counselor during the interviewing process. These agencies have a background with the police and work together often. She'll be 'protected' from any potential indecent actions....
A friend cannot offer these same services...... No matter how good or skilled the friend is. I learned the hard way......
Good luck, and keep the updates coming.... It's good to hear the progress.
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 6:40:42 PM | Since when did everyone on here get there legal degrees anyway??? Just wondering not that I have my degree either but Sexual Assult under the Criminal Code is S.271(1)(a) and it is an iditable offence and the person(s) are liable to imprisonment not exceeding 10 years or an offence punnsihable on a summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 18 months.
So therefor for those of you who don't have any law experiance this means because it is a hybrid procedure there is NO statue of limitations. So the quote "It's too late for her to report it now. She has probably showered and the "evidence" is gone" is a line of BS but it will be harder to prosecute
There is also another section in the CC under 273.2(a)(i) that reads
It is not a defense to a charge under section 271,272 or 273 that the accused believed that the complaintent consented to the activity that forms the subject-matter of the charge, where
(a) the accused's belief arose from the accused's
(i) self intoxication
This is according to my friend who is in Police foundations | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 6:49:24 PM | | Hey all I oopsed and posted this quote above under my friends profile but there are many different sections under the CC and at all times sexual assult should be reported even if the DNA is gone. Otherwise pity on you unexpecting fools who come across the people she did. Get yourself a lawyer and have the sections reviewed. Get appointments with proffesionals because everyone on here thinks they are one she is definatly going to need an assessment. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 7:00:08 PM | Luna this mans thread is about "EX GF GETS RAPED"
not about "a child getting molested"....there are other topics for that sort of thing and yes that is just as imporant as a woman getting raped or anyone being in that sort of thing. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 7:04:00 PM | I think they meant too late for acquiring useable DNA evidence.
Anyway, I've been checking in from time to time to see what's happening. There will never be a truly happy ending to this, but I'm glad your friend is following through with counselling. It will help her get on with her life. I hope one day you can tell us how well she has recovered. You've been a good friend. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 7:26:05 PM | Do you have a little statue somewhere of limitations?
Statute, dear.
As far as the "drunk" defense, first of all your entire message assumes there was a sexual assault. The sleaze level of the lawyer who would take the case defending the guys will claim that everything was consensual. He will ask what random people at the party were wearing. What time "Bob" arrived. "What? You don't remember? Is it possible you were so intoxicated that details like this are not clear in your mind? And now you are asking the court to believe that at the end of a night of heavy drinking you suddenly made a sharp u-turn back to sober and you can recall the exact details of this alleged sexual assault? How can that be if you were so intoxicated you don't even know what time you got there?"
As far as legal degree, I will not comment on that. However, the lawyer doesn't have to prove the guys didn't do it. He has to create reasonable doubt in the mind of the jury that a crime was actually committed. That takes witnesses. Now not saying they did force themselves on her or not, but this is what the people mean when they say "It's too late anyway." It isn't only the semen residue. There would likely be bruises, marks on her body, torn clothing, possibly DNA samples from a hair that fell on her or if she tried to fight them off maybe a bit of skin under a fingernail from a scratch.... All of that is gone by now.
I am NOT defending the guys. See that? I am NOT defending the guys. I am saying that this will be difficult to prove. Her word alone will not be good enough. The court wears a blindfold. Their word carries the same strength as her word. She says they did it. They say they didn't. What comes next? Physical evidence. Nobody has any. What comes next? Personality, prior history, testimony. The lawyer will bring in every guest from the party to testify that she was drunk and then point out to the jury that someone in that state is not considered capable of making good decisions, asking if it is at all possible that the alcohol had lowered her resistance and she was in an amorous mood. Plant that seed in their mind.
Remember, defense lawyers make their living poking holes in cases and getting their clients off. They know EVERY trick. Prosecuting attorneys make their living making sure those holes are filled. Sometimes they can't do that.
The world thinks that not guilty and innocent mean the same thing. That is not 100% accurate.
"Not guilty" means "You may have done it but the prosecution did not present enough incontrovertable evidence to remove any shadow of a doubt". "Innocent" means "Get out of here. We believe you didn't do anything." In both cases people go free. Some should. Some should not.
I honestly don't believe they will get a rape case to trial by what I have seen reported in the thread. The penaties for sexual assault are moot unless there is solid, concrete, indisputable evidence that a sexual assault occurred. The courts may be different in Canada, but here in the states, it's tough to get something like this to go your way.
There was a woman here who shot her husband dead in his wheelchair. It was ON FILM!!!! She CONFESSED to it. And she got probabation because of her "mental state". Apparently the guy, from his wheelchair, had mentally abused her and she killed him because he pushed her into going to the closet, finding the 12 gauge shotgun, loading it,****ng it, shooting him, discharging the expended shell, loading it AGAIN,****ng it AGAIN, shooting him AGAIN. All on film from thir own in-home security camera. Yet it was the dead guy's fault. The woman did a plea based on her "mental state", a plea that the overbooked court was willing to accept, got probation, and the guy is still dead. Society protects the criminals more than the victims now days. The ACLU did that.
Wanna kill somebody and get away with it? Kill the guy, and when the cops get there IMMEDIATELY scream so everybody (meaning witnesses) hears it "I DID IT. I KILLED HIM. I CONFESS."
Obviously you confessed before you were read your Miranda rights, and your confession is inadmissible evidence. You walk with a minor sentence, likely probation. And the guy is still dead.
OJ Simpson got away with a double murder because there was reasonable doubt. They had 2 bodies, the knife he used, the glove he wore, and his shoe prints. What do we have here? One girl claming she was overpowered and assaulted, a girl that was admittedly intoxicated beyond reasonable control.
Won't even get to court.
Now that DOES NOT MEAN the charges shouldn't be filed. The charges mean that the guys have a rape charge on their rap sheet that will come up every time their driver's license is run by a cop. The suggestion of wrongdoing does as much harm to people as the wrongdoing.
Example? Your babysitter is charged with child abuse. He/she is found 100% innocent. You still going to let him/her watch your kid? Even though the court said he didn't do it? You'll probably answer "yes" here to win the argument, but more than likely, if you are honest, you would not allow that babysitter to watch your kids again.
I see a woman with bruised knees. I start talking to the neighbors saying "Hey, her husband coaches little league. He has a WHOLE trunk full of baseball bats. Looks like her knees were hit with a baseball bat, doesn't it?" I have planted the seed of doubt, and that guy is finished.
"Should be" and "is" are two very different things. Sadly. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 8:01:09 PM | | Honestly , police should be notified and those guys , if I were you , would be put through some pretty scarey moments that they would never forget . You don't have to hurt them but if you make them beleive that they have reached the end of the road I would bet they think twice before doing it again . | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 8:17:57 PM |
Meh, I guess I needed to vent - but has anyone been in a similar situation, and how did you deal with it?
Well, I went through a similar sort of thing about a decade ago. Wasn't an ex, just a friend, but she got raped by a coke dealer at a bush party while me and some other guys were off getting tarps to build shelters.
What I did was put the word around town that I wanted to know where he lived. Three weeks later, I found out, so I went to his place, kicked his door down and beat him so badly that he spent 3 weeks in the hospital. I know I broke ribs and fingers, not sure what else. Then I left.
3 days later, this coke dealer friend of his came up to me at the rec center I was hanging out at and asked me to step outside to talk, and I ended up facing about 20+ coke and crack dealers from the bad part of town. It was quite the scene. I walked right up to them, told them "Look, you know what he did and why I beat him, and it has nothing to do with your business. I don't have a beef with you guys, but if you guys want to jump me, there's nothing I'm going to be able to do to stop you, so here I am."
Turned out, unbeknownst to me, a friend of mine went running around gathering everyone in the area who knew me, and while I was standing there thinking I was all alone, a gang was forming behind me, bigger than the other gang.
They left and never bothered me again, and the rapist left town and was never seen again. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 9:18:32 PM | "What comes next? Personality, prior history, testimony"...
I dunno about in the US but prior history is inadmissable, she could have slept with 499 guys and it won't be heard if the Crown does their job correctly. I do agree that it would be a very difficult case to prosecute because of the lacking DNA.
However the assumption of sexual assult is just that until they are charged and it goes to court, however I do believe that the person who posted this thread would know better than anyone if the "victim" is known to lie through her teeth.
As for being intoxicated out of her tree that is still not an invite to say "wanna rape me?" it would be like saying people ask to be raped. If we were to follow through on assumptions lets ASSUME she does go to the police and they are charged who isn't assuming they don't already have a history? I mean do people just wake up one day and decide they want to be a rapist?
The actual purpose of me posting this was just because it was stated earlier that there was no point to reporting it and that is not wise advice. I understand what she ment by the mud slinging but who has ever said that rape trials were ment to be nice?
It just goes back to the saying "Don't assume it makes an ASS out of U and ME"
As for your abused women I dont know how the Mental defense works in the US so I can't really comment on that but I do know that the Mental Services Act here is really sticky as well, but any case with mental disorder issues are difficult. In that case I would think (Im probably wrong) that either the person was NCRMD or the proscecutor was incompetent.
Oh by the way I do have a book on statute of limitations, its a great big book called the Criminal Code 50th Edition.  As for my little spelling mistake earlier I do apoligize it appears I was typing faster than I was thinking  | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 95 | |
| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/23/2006 10:59:55 PM | She's told her family and bf.. the fam's really supportive, and the bf is too, but according to both her and him she'd rather I was the one that accompanied her to various appointments. We went to get all the tests done, etc yesterday. She's still apprehensive about being judged by the cops, especially since it's been a while, but I told her about the suggestion of at least filing a report in case they do it again and it looks like I'm taking her on Monday. So we'll see how it goes at that point. Having heard some horror stories of how some rape victims were badgered by the cops, I want to make sure I can be there in case they start going down that road and put a stop to it.
Other than that, she's holding up all things considered, and I've convinced her to go talk to a professional. Her family is taking care of that aspect.
Thanks again, and keep the advice flowing if you you've got any.
BTW, she knows I posted this. She doesn't want to read it, but she trusts that I kept it anonymous, and has no problem with it especially since it's helping me help her. As she said: "You have to deal with this too"
P I am glad to see the above post, I hope my email did not offend you, that was not my intent, I just didna want her or yours friendship to go to pot or her get even more hurt or pushed back further with her hurt. Goodluck to you both and my offer still stands from the email extended to her too if she needs to talk. I know I am a stranger, but sometimes it is easier to talk to a stranger that you will never meet? Ya know?
Goodluck  | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 3:54:35 AM |
I dunno about in the US but prior history is inadmissable, she could have slept with 499 guys and it won't be heard if the Crown does their job correctly.
The guy's history. Not the girl's history. As in "Do they have priors?" Would go a long way to at least get the case to court. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 6:47:27 AM | | I have been down that road....you must tell her that it is NOT her fault. Rape is not about sex....it is about violence and control. It is never too late to report the act. Get her to talk to a rape councilor....that is usually for free where ever you live. They will help her to deal with the fear and the pain. It doesn't matter whether she was drunk or not...it was not consentual.....rape is rape. As far as you are concerned...there is really nothing that you can do....just be there for her. Go with her to the counciling and find out the info for her so you can take her there....You should try talking with them also....because it is effecting you and they can give you the best advice on how to handle the situation with her. It is called the Rape Crisis Center. They usually provide free individual or group counciling. Do NOt go after the guys....let the police do their jobs if she decides to report it. You don't want to end up getting in bad trouble and making things worse. She needs your friendship right now. All....you can do is just be there. Find out about the Rape Crisis Center in your area....that is the best thing that you can do at this time. I hope this will help. God bless. | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 6:56:58 AM | This is about tanbury
tanbury says----It never fails when a hoe can't control herself, when she has a boyfriend, to yell rape
I say- Now Im not wishing this but IF u got raped and u asked a question or u talked to a best friend and ur best friend ask for advice or even vent.. and ppl called u a hoe for sleeping with 2 guys and cried rape because u don't want to get in trouble with ur boyfriend I don't think u would like ppl calling you a liar or a hoe | |
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| When an ex-girl friend gets raped... what would you do?
Posted: 7/24/2006 7:56:27 AM |
It doesn't matter whether she was drunk or not...it was not consentual.....rape is rape.
You can not make that statement unless you saw it happen. You don't know if it was or was not consensul. (Lawyers next words are "Move to strike. Calls for a conslusion" and out it goes.) You could get by with "IF it was not consensual", but you do not have the facts to make that judgement.
Alcohol lowers resistance and stirs libido. Many studies have proven that. Drunk will make a difference. See my earlier post on how that angle would be attacked in a courtroom.
Every one of you women who have blindly banded together to make this something it might not have been need to take a breath and familiarize yourself with a concept called "rush to judgement". Put the gender-biased "we have to stick together" emotions aside and think about what the tools are that a jury has to work with. A jury will say "Of COURSE she will claim rape to save face." They will also think "Of COURSE the guys will deny it to avoid jail." Jury duty is tough when it's something this serious.
And I will add again, IF it was not consensual, report it. I still don't think we have the whole story. The OP is a man this girl was once involved with. She deems him to be someone she respects and seeks HIS respect in return. IF this was a consensual three way sex thing, she may have fears that he would lose respect for her. Consenting to sex and being embarassed about it later does not retroactively make it rape.
Again, I don't know what really happened. Nobody does but the three people involved. Typically a court will ask "Who has something to gain by lying?" and that carries a great deal of weight when they weigh relative merit of testimony.
However, nobody outside of the three people involve knows if a crime was committed or some liquored up people thought it would be fun to have a wild 3-way sexual encounter.
If the guys were friends of yours, would you believe THEM or HER?
The sad part here is the possibility that it will not be reported. It really needs to be reported if only to have the authorities have a chat with the guys involved. A long chat in an interrogation room seems to have a positive effect and remind people to think before they do.
NOBODY, me included, ESPECIALLY me, is saying that sexual assualt in any form is acceptable. However, people are still innocent until proven guilty. Get them into court, bring in the witnesses, and if they are guilty, lock them up. It is equally fair to say that if they are NOT guilty they will be proven so. | |
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