| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 2:37:38 PM | | No math needed, that link clearly shows that it is all the additional appeals that cost so much money. If criminals get convicted, sentenced to death and then actually put to death right away the costs would be just fine.... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 2:44:12 PM | Hey, you're right...
Actually, we could save tons more money if we skipped the whole trial!
I mean, hell, if you're accused of the crime, chances are you're guilty...why waste time and money with all that...legal recourse and protections from injustice crap...
Let's go a step further.
Let's say that if you're accused of a capital crime, the victims can chose to beat you to death with a ball bat...and all the money saved can be put into a government fund used for:
1. Forced prayer in schools.
2. Buy guns for the poor.
3. Pay to have homosexuals shipped somewhere...anywhere...
Sound good?
Man, it's hard to believe with good ideas like this floating around in the public sphere that government hasn't yet clued into 'em. Well, maybe NOW we can get some groundswell support going... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 3:25:29 PM | When it comes to the death penalty, America takes way too long to put the criminal to death. There are other countries that are able to convict an individual and put them to death quickly, we should too.
It's really not that hard to follow, a jury convicts them they get put to death.... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 3:29:09 PM | And think of the EXTRA money you could raise if you had the executions in a Collisseum, with, like, lions ripping the convicts to bits...and crowds screaming as you pit one against the other...and we could all hail Caesar, of course, before it starts...
2005, Watchie, 2005. Come along, we have lots of lovely things here...electricity and horseless carriages and many, many other wonders... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 3:30:48 PM | | My apologies if this concept of a jury verdict actually being carried out when it was rendered was so hard for you to follow. I'll try and use smaller words next time... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 3:34:58 PM | That's right big guy...I'm helplessly over my head here on the vocabulary front.
How many overturned verdicts, would you say, would be enough to warrant perhaps reconsidering your position...
That is to say, how many innocent men would have to die before you thought, maybe, the idea of an appeals process for something as important as taking another human being's life might be worth looking into?
Please use small words though...
As an aside, I get the sense you make that offer more out of necessity on your end rather than the alternative... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 3:41:59 PM | Small words just for you, what say we improve the current criminal trial system so that we can get it right the first time?
That site you recommended earlier claims that the vast majority of errors discovered during appeal fall squarely on the shoulders of the Lawyers. I know your kind doesn't like to mess around with Trial Lawyers, but maybe you could make an exception and hold the Lawyers accountable to save an innocent man's life? | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 3:58:22 PM | Oh, you dear, sweet old redneck you...by 'my kind' you mean 'homo sapien', n'est pas? Don't worry, the secret of fire can be yours too...just keep your eyes to the sky and ready yourself to throw spears to the wind in pre-cambrian glee when it arrives...
And...
YES! I say YES to improving the current system. What a novel idea! I had previously thought, along with my liberal breathren, that we should leave the system in such a sorry state but just work to make sure the wrongly convicted are given large, plasma TVs and HBO.
But your way is so much better! Brilliant stuff...keep up the insightful thinking and radical motions...
And, now correct me if I'm wrong as it wasn't a site I recommended. But were you surprised that lawyers had a lot to do with the problem with the death penalty? Just curious...up until you read that site...you thought it was the hotdog vendor outside the court who was really responsible?
I'll tell you what...when you find a way to prevent those errors (and save money, which is what the point was with you to begin with) then you let me know. Until that happens, why not put the proverbial cork in your 'convict 'em and kill 'em immediately' diatribe...since you pretty much admit to the fact death row contains many who shouldn't be there. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 4:57:37 PM | 
Hiya Joe...thanks man, but c'mon...if you can't have a little fun with 'em, what's the point?
I mean, other than offering gun rack manufacturers a raison d'etre...there's not much else for them other than to provide folks with occasional amusements... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 6:07:26 PM | You remind of the zookeeper who pokes the gorilla with a stick, and laughs while eating a banana. LOL
Woodrow
 
gorilla
  
Woodrow
 | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 6:39:56 PM | **** me Joe...you make me laugh sometimes...
We're still on for beers first time one of us is in the same city I hope...
d*mn...made me put my drink through my nose on that one...
And please stop insulting the intelligence of gorillas. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 6:49:10 PM | i can't see why it has to take so long for the appeals process to happen. Why can't they appeal right then and there, while it's still fresh in everyone's mind? Can you see that being played out in court??
Jury: "Guilty!!! Death to the killer!"
Accused lawyer: "but but but...We want to appeal!"
Judge: "OK, You may state your appeals case after a ten minute recess"
ten minutes later
Accused lawyer: " um...he's innocent"
Judge: "You sure?"
Accused lawyer: "yes"
Judge: "Jury??"
Jury: "Not convinced!!! He's still guilty!!"
Judge: "OK. There you have it. He's still guilty. He gets 30 minutes to say good bye to his family and then it's off to the killing room"
"i'm hungry..lets get a taco"... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 6:49:16 PM | | you make very good points woodrow... thanks for steppin' up and positing what you did! you rock! ;) | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 6:56:04 PM | nobody's arguing that killers should not die.
the only argument is that it's so hard to find out who the criminal is. The history of murder cases has shown verdicts to be terribly inaccurate. For that reason only, I'm against the death penalty.
There are ways to falsify any evidence, even DNA. Regardless of whether you feel OJ was guilty or not, if blood evidence taken from the accused is missing for six hours and the vial comes back to the the place where evidence is stored two and a half CC's shorter than when the accused gave it and the car he drove wasn't quarentined and the blood prints found at the scene tell forensic investigators that the drops of blood on the pavement that the source of the blood was standing still when the blood was spilled, there must be considerable doubt about any court decision involving murder.
If this isn't reason enough for you to doubt, then think: What if it were ME who was unjustly accused? | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 7:08:44 PM | Woodrow,
Yep, if you ever pass by Vancouver let me know. Shoot some pool and Shermanate the ladies.
We could use these great pickup lines on women I learned:
Was your father a thief? 'Cause someone stole the stars from the sky and put them in your eyes.
Be unique and different, say yes.
Are your pants from outer space? 'cause your butt is out of this world.
Did the sun come out or did you just smile at me?
I must be in heaven cause I've seen an angel
You're like milk, I want to make you a part of my complete breakfast.
I'm not actually this tall. I'm sitting on my wallet.
I know milk does a body good, but d*mn girl, how much have you been drinking?
Excuse me, I just noticed you noticing me and I just wanted to give you notice that I noticed you too.
Let's go to my place and do the things I'll tell everyone we did anyway.
Can I have your picture so I can show Santa what I want for Christmas? | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 7:16:57 PM | Perhaps in the execution room they could put one of the carny rides clowns with a sign...
" You must be this tall to ride the Lethal Injection ride" | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 7:19:50 PM | | Kitty: I believe murderers should be destroyed IF we can find out who they are. Problem is that I don't believe we can be that sure-almost ever. Whether the treatment of murderers is humane or not is not the issue for me. The issue is that every court system there is has such a high margin of error that we should never do anything which is irreversible. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/5/2005 8:48:41 PM | well kitty, I know nobody will ever be 100% accurate at knowing the person is guilty, so that puts me agin it.
You could never be sure the murder on videotape was real, either. You could never know if someone was being set up.
I don't trust ANY evidence enough to base taking a person's life on it. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 4:58:56 AM |
Until that happens, why not put the proverbial cork in your 'convict 'em and kill 'em immediately' diatribe...since you pretty much admit to the fact death row contains many who shouldn't be there.
Actually I never admitted any such thing, I simply said that the vast majority of errors were being made by Lawyers. I said nothing about the guilt or innocence of the people on trial. Not that I expected you to be able to understand the small words but I did have a hope you might be able to. At the very least you could refrain from rewriting my posts and claiming that's what I 'really meant anyway'.
I think I like the convict em' and kill em' just fine. If more States would do just that we certainly would be better off. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 8:40:45 AM | Hiya Watch-guy
Right...so let's be clear here, because as most know I'm a bit slow on the uptake with things...
You mention there are errors...and they're made by the lawyers (good didactic reasoning there, next up I'm gonna quiz you and see if you think many operating room errors are made by medical staff...).
But you don't mean that these errors for death row cases might mean that there are people wrongly convicted...hmmn.
So, you're concerned with the vast number of errors lawyers make in their lunch-time cafeteria orders? The vast majority of errors they make when the bailif says "all rise" and then they mistakening begin doing push-ups or something?
OH! I know, the majority of errors where lawyers say to themselves half-way through the court case, realizing the government prosecution team, who are often under mis-guided pressure to get a conviction in order to mollify the public come hell or high water, have unlimited resources to research and otherwise form their case while they're sitting there with bugger all to work with and then say "Man, it was such a mistake to get into law...I should have tried furniture sales, like my Dad told me."
And of COURSE you don't say anything about guilt or innocence, you lovely misguided lad, because if that really were brought up you'd have to get into the idea (please look that 'idea' word up, if necessary, as its a lovely little word with many, many excellent traits you should someday see about embracing) that innocent and guilty are two considerations that sort of make a difference in your convict 'em and kill 'em theory...because, Watchie, when you 'kill 'em' you don't get a 'do-over' if they're not the guy who did it. And while that may not matter to you right now, it severely makes a dent in the social calendars of wrongly convicted death row inmates. Y'know?
And I am sorry about your being upset about my apparent 'rewriting' of your posts...you see, in the absence of clearly worded and thought out responses, I just thought that I would cut through the haze a little and try to enlighten you somewhat on the consequences for your thoughts...the 'errors' probably meaning that someone was kinda 'convicted' when they ought 'not to be'. But you meant lawyers making errors that have zero bearing on the outcome of the case...which of course, is something the ACLU has been complaining about for years...especially the number of legal aid defenders who ask someone where the washroom is, are told second door on the left, and then go into the second door on the RIGHT...It's a problem of almost epic proportions, and I'm sorry I didn't take it into consideration earlier.
For the record though, I'm pretty sure that the convict 'em and kill 'em approach of yours holds up to scrutiny only until (god forbid) you or someone close to you was wrongly convicted of a crime... I say this in all seriousness. If that happened, none of us would want you wrongly convicted and then immediately...you know...Goodness.
That would be a horrific, terrible thing to know happened to another (and in your case I use the term loosely) human being. Sure, the species as a whole would likely get a little IQ boost on average, but that does NOT make it right.
Now on ya go, there are threads around here where you can proudly assert that if a homosexual came near you, you would beat the sh!t out of them. Have fun with that, although, I get the sense you're a lot of hype/type and little else...but we all think you're tough, big guy, really...we do...honestly.
Sigh. Now, where's Joefixit so I can remind him not to malign gorillas by comparing them to you... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 8:52:44 AM | What a clever response, saying absolutely nothing. Other than the fact you admit to the fabrication and embellishment of statements I have posted to suit your viewpoint.
You mention there are errors...and they're made by the lawyers (good didactic reasoning there, next up I'm gonna quiz you and see if you think many operating room errors are made by medical staff...).
You really are slow on the uptake. I think that a more accurate comparison would be between Doctors and Lawyers. I guess a Nurse, Anesthesiologist, Nurse Practitioner, EMT, or other 'medical professional' making a mistake could never result in a death eh? I guess their errors just don't count? So that would mean a Court Clerk mislabeling critical evidence, a tainted Juror, a biased Judge could never result in a wrongful conviction either?
Oh shucks, there I've gone and used words longer than a single syllable, no hope of you ever grasping any of this so I might as well just go out and pound some homosexual senseless now. You aren't by any chance homosexual are you? | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 9:43:12 AM | Fun fun fun, this is good, not as good as having Mikey around, but hell, you'll do for now...
Generally, watchie, you probably want to avoid starting a response's first paragraph with...
"What a clever response..."
and then in the next paragraph start with...
"You really are slow on the uptake."
It tends be difficult to really carry a point through when you contradict yourself. Not that I'm telling you to change, big fella, because we all know that change is hard and you have to be okay with yourself first, and then its baby steps into the big bad world of rational, adult debate, but still, something to consider...
You ARE good, though, to point out all the various places where wrongful convictions can occur. Amazing, isn't it, and good stuff...valid through and through. You see, I was just doing that as a sort of 'poking fun' kinda way, illustrating a point through a bit of humour...but YOU! Look at you, ya big lug, seeing way past that and finding all kinds of sources for wrongful convictions in the justice system.
Now, I want you to breathe deep (through your nose, if you can, it's preferred) and make another leap of logic (short leap, no need to stretch). If there are so many sources for error, and so many errors that occur through these sources, perhaps your current plan for fryin' convicted killers in the parking lot behind the court might be a tad...premature (you'll be familliar with the word premature, perhaps, albeit in a different context...)? And in the meantime, while you're sorting out things for the justice system, you'll see the value of a stringent appeals process with many, many checks and balances. Costly, but as you point out, with all those sources for error, worth it.
You seem to be, unknowingly, saying very loosely the same things as Elwood was...about killing killers and just needing to be sure beforehand, what with this revelation about errors throughout the process. Ain't it funny how this stuff comes around full circle?
Sorry Watchie, not homosexual...careful you aren't caught at it and convicted though, y'know? Hate crimes have pretty severe penalties these days. | |
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