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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 9:52:33 AM |
Generally, watchie, you probably want to avoid starting a response's first paragraph with...
"What a clever response..."
and then in the next paragraph start with...
"You really are slow on the uptake."
With the inability you have displayed with comprehending multi-syllable words I should have known sarcasm would have flown right over your head....
You seem to be, unknowingly, saying very loosely the same things as Elwood was
Since you have no point at all, I see you just can't help but twist my words (again) to try and support your own viewpoint. I bet you could carry on an both sides of an argument all by yourself without any trouble.
Nice of you to admit that your very own illustration was seriously flawed. Don't get too excited though, I still doubt you'll be able to graduate to multi-syllable comprehension anytime soon. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 10:29:37 AM | | I say they are a rabid animal, and we need to put the thing down and send them to their creator. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 10:30:47 AM | Not to begrudge you your little victories...
But it seems, in the process of having our little chat...
More than a few folks have been having some fun reading along...some of them even nice enough to offer up their support for what some of us are saying...
Some of them, even, have mentioned that in reading our little tete a tete...they're reminded of a zoo keeper (me) dealing with a gorilla (you)...
Um, in so far as this goes, while you're patting yourself on the back, cutie-pie, you may in a minority of one in terms of our respective cognitive abilities...And yes, in your case, it is much more effective, for didactic purposes, to carry both sides of the argument. Simply put, it's an unfortunate necessity. I don't LIKE it, mind you, but hey, sometimes we have to play the rhetorical hand we're dealt.
Now, back to your cage, you naughty, naughty ape.
(Public Note of Apology: Sometimes we have to be firm, even if we still love our little, chest-beating Pongidae charges) | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 10:41:41 AM | Please feel free to use the zoo keeper fantasy for your own masculine fulfillment if it really helps.
On that note, I'll leave you to improve your reading comprehension before I enter into what would clearly be a futile attempt at an intelligent discussion with you on such an important issue.. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 11:02:24 AM | LOL. Woodrow - you cheap, ignorant, sl ut! You should know better than to mess with the animals. He doesn't know whether to scratch his watch or wind his butt.
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 11:11:01 AM | In the spirit of the post, this is an issue I see in black and white. I don't care if you ARE black or white, rich or poor, religious or atheistic, American or otherwise: if you commit premeditated murder, you should be executed. I feel the same way for sexual predators, especially those that prey on children. We as a society are much better off without their ilk. People must be held accountable for their actions, and we need to put a stop to all the excuses being made for what should be inexcusable crimes.
I believe the 'cruel and unusual punishment' argument against capital punishment is a joke, since murderers care very little- if at all- about those they kill. No consideration is given to the methods of torture some of them use against their victims, and it totally baffles me how anyone could feel any sort of sympathy for them.
It sickens me to know some of my tax dollars go toward providing for jailed murderers like Lee Malvo, one of the two DC snipers, who unquestionably should have been given the death penalty for what he did. That is the main reason why the 'teens and the death penalty' arguments have surfaced. Malvo cared nothing about his victims, and I care nothing for him. He knew exactly what he was doing; his age has nothing to do with it. If I had my way, he'd already have been executed, as there was- and is- no doubt of his guilt.
12 years ago I lost my father to a similar piece of sh!t that was convicted of one murder, then released after 14 years because the powers that be thought he'd paid his dues. Thanks in part to their horrendous judgement and this pathetic legal system we have, my father is dead. We need to concentrate on punishing the real criminals like those i mentioned. That's where I stand. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 11:33:37 AM | Ah- very well thought out response there. I hear the word 'ilk' used fairly often, actually. Forgive me if I don't like to use more common, or trendy, terms.
As for my 'barbarian approach' toward convicts, i see you say nothing about the convicts' barbarity toward their victims. As far as I'm concerned your attitude spurs complacency, and encourages criminals in that they can count on getting treated better in prison than many of our poor and free citizens are. I'm glad you're not in public office. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 1:33:27 PM | I think that it is an act of evil for a group of public employees to strap a person to a chair or table and inject poison in to his or her veins.
I don't care what the criminal did or how vile his or her crimes were: state-sponsored death is not the answer. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 1:38:50 PM | I don't care what the criminal did or how vile his or her crimes were
Fortunately for society there are many people that DO care how heinous a crime is and that the punishment meted out by our justice system fit the severity of the crime... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 1:45:52 PM | Yes, watchman, there are people who so little about our society that they advocate that the state should be in the business of killing people.
I do not think that a response to a criminal who shows total disregard for human life is for the state to show disregard for that criminal's life. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 2:00:07 PM | [Fortunately for society there are many people that DO care how heinous a crime is and that the punishment meted out by our justice system fit the severity of the crime... ]
Yes, there are plenty of us who are repulsed by the utter depravity of some of the crimes committed, and we want retribution in kind, which we should have. We cannot be, and should not be, soft on such criminals like malvo and this btk maggot. Since they chose to show no mercy toward any of their victims, it absolutely is within our right in turn, as a society, to show those criminals no mercy. The sooner we rid ourselves of them, the better. When they torture or kill for whatever reason, as far as I'm concerned they've forfeited their right to live. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 2:08:26 PM | Fiction, you may want "retribution in kind, which we should have" but I certainly don't.
Sure, I want criminals punished and in proportion to their crime but your kind of retribution cheapens life and makes it difficult to differentiate between the criminal and the prosecuter. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 2:24:07 PM | I think the persons mental state should be evaluated before they can be executed.
Example: A house wife has a dragged out argument with her husband and after hours of constant yelling her husband turns away. in reaction of extreme rage she grabs a gun and shoots blindly in his direction. a stray bullet hits him in the back killing him.
Example: Several kids plot to shoot up a school. they grab what guns they could find primarily .22 cals. school morning comes around when all the kids are at the play ground and 3 teens open fire into the crowd with semi auto fire killing 5.
the wife kills her husband in temporary insanity. the teens kill other teens in cold blood, they know of what might come of them yet chances are they will only be put in jail and tried as a minor.
so its hard to say if teens should be executed, many teens are just plain dumb so they do dumb things that could hurt other people like putting m80s in mail boxes or playing paintball with no paintball masks. but there is the occasion where teens try and kill intentionaly. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 2:48:49 PM | [Sure, I want criminals punished and in proportion to their crime but your kind of retribution cheapens life and makes it difficult to differentiate between the criminal and the prosecuter.]
That statement tells me you really don't believe in retribution in kind. How it is not retribution in kind to kill a murderer? And, I would say it's your view that cheapens life, because with your way the murderer can go on living, supported by the taxpayers, while the victim is dead and his/her family is torn apart. So, explain to me how that is retribution. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 2:54:30 PM | I don't believe in retribution or revenge but I do believe in punishment and rehabilitation.
the murderer can go on living, supported by the taxpayers
So is it down to cost? Do you support the death penalty because it's cheaper? Now we can understand that some murderers place little value on a life but what price are you putting on it? | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 3:15:22 PM | Woodrow says something.. but watchie doesn't like to pay attention to it. Weak argument watchman  | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 3:21:47 PM | Actually most of Woodrow's 'points' were soundly refuted, even by his own admission.
Try and read before you speak Elwood. Wait, that won't work, you just ignore everything anyone posts unless it starts with Bush sucks... | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 3:24:22 PM | | the point that Woodrow and I both made was that if you convict the wrong, person, then the way they're punished is a moot point. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 3:32:11 PM | [I don't believe in retribution or revenge but I do believe in punishment and rehabilitation.]
Only to an extent do I agree with rehabilitation. However, that ends with murderers and sexual predators, particularly those that prey on children. Most if not all such vermin cannot be rehabilitated, and I don't see that it's worth the effort to try. They crossed lines that everyone knows never should be crossed, and I don't care what the reasons (i.e. excuses) are.
I do believe in retribution, and if we practiced that instead of trying to come up with half-assed excuses concocted by psychiatrists and lawyers to rationalize depravity, I believe the good people in society would be much better off. There is no way anyone can justify assigning more value to a murderer's life than to that of the victim, which is what happens when said murderer is not executed.
[So is it down to cost? Do you support the death penalty because it's cheaper? Now we can understand that some murderers place little value on a life but what price are you putting on it? ]
Well, the death penalty would be cheaper if the process wasn't choked by endless appeals, as was pointed out earlier. And, it would be justice. As for cost, or value, I would exact the price from the murderer/sexual predator that they exacted from their victims. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 3:44:08 PM | @ Kitty:
I understand your argument and where you're coming from, and perhaps in this respect I am something of a barbarian. i see this matter in the simplest of terms, and I do believe that if faced with the prospect of getting exactly what they gave, many criminals would reconsider and be deterred. As for those that would not be deterred, well, we don't need them in society, anyway, and are far better off without them.
Perhaps in one way being executed is the easy way out, but it also removes the possibility of some screwup in the process leading to a murderer's release, or escape. I would sleep better knowing that the perpetrator is dead, and thus will never be able to hurt or kill anyone else.
Yes, solitary would be quite a punishment, but if that was how things had to be I'd like to see a minor fix made: along with their prison blues the guards could issue the worst of the lot a stool, a long piece of rope and instructions on how to make a hangman's noose. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 3:51:24 PM | I think it's unfair and misleading to think that the only options are "retribution....or half-assed excuses concocted by psychiatrists" Fair prison sentences and life in prison as described above certainly isn't "half-assed".
Also, I think you have an odd idea of society if you think that "good people" would be much better off by having state-sponsored killings. Indeed, I can't think of any country I know of where the death penalty is regularly used that I would like to live in. I think that the contrary is the case: you can tell the quality of a society by the way in which it treats its criminals. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 4:12:30 PM | Grove, it's pretty clear that we do not- and most likely will not- see eye-to-eye on this issue, for I don't believe there is a fair prison sentence for a murderer; it's a contradiction in terms to me. The only fair sentence for a murderer is death. Period. As I mentioned earlier, my father's murderer only spent 14 years in prison for another murder he committed, and what did he do when he got out? If given the option by the judge to shoot him myself for what he did to my father, I think it's very likely that I would have done exactly that. I believe wholeheartedly that I'd have been fully justified if I did, and I would have felt better knowing that the **stard never would have been able to do to another family what he did to mine.
Simply put, I feel that the good people in society would be better off in knowing that the evil, depraved 'people' would be eradicated if found guilty of murder. i equally find your idea of a good society odd in that murderers would not be given their just desserts. I guess we should just agree to disagree. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 4:31:15 PM | Kitty
Yes, I've heard that about the molesters, and it is a good thing when they get what they've given; I'll agree with you there. That doesn't mean I don't think they should die- particularly the predators on children, which to me is abominable, as they are to you and should be to anyone.
Ah, yes- the option inmates get to forego the appellate process. It goes without saying that few do, since there's such a lack of accountability. I actually have a grain of respect for someone like Gary Gilmore, who admitted what he did and refused any legal delays of his execution. Too bad many more of the guilty don't follow his example, isn't it?
I also would rather see the murderers suffer more, but then again, think of it this way: being given the precise day and hour of their execution, and knowing there's nothing they can do to stop it, is a form of mental suffering for them. In most cases it isn't equal to the torture they inflicted upon their victims, unfortunately, but it is something.
I also hear you about the families of the murderers that suffer as well when the murderer is executed. It's not that I don't feel sympathy for them- I do, because they're victims, too- but the bottom line for me is, they must pay with their lives for taking lives of others. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 4:31:24 PM |
Actually most of Woodrow's 'points' were soundly refuted, even by his own admission.
Oh, you naughty, cheeky little redneck...putting admissions in my mouth...
Watchie, I gotta hand it to ya, for such a paragon of fine moral standards (although, little digital birdies give me the sense you may have a rather risquee side to some of your more, shall we say, prurient tastes, but I digress...) there's a fair amount of behaviour from you that is just plain, old-fashioned, willful idiocy. Maybe it isn't intended, actually, but you do seem to enjoy labouring under relatively obvious misconceptions.
Still, all the power to ya. And that reading thing you recommend Elwood...let he who has not blustered in ignorance cast the first stone, to paraphrase a certain old novel...
Finally, you DO know that for all the certainty that you may have towards the sound thrashing you provided me with debate-wise...you've been the object of a fair amount of amusement from all who've watched you and I go through this little exercise...right? And by amusement, I mean, folks are laughing at you. I'm even happy to say I've received a number of emails from different people (some pro-death penalty, some anti-death penalty) outlining the fun they've had reading you and I...You're really galvanizing a diverse group of people with a number of different beliefs, and whether intended or not, I want you to know that you done good. Remember the song? People...people who need people...? Well, you're doing your part in bringing us together, my man, and for that, you ought to be proud.
Just thought I'd letcha know, because amongst other things, I believe with all my heart that while I might give you the occasional verbal spanking, that you too can learn and one day have all manner of eye-opening revelations about this lovely, big, adult world of rational thought and intellectual discourse.
Until then, go read in your cage, you naughty monkey. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/6/2005 4:36:47 PM | Little off topic but,
I find it mildly interesting that many pro-lifers, are also pro-death penalty, pro torture, and would not give a dime to a starving man on the street. The irony.
Massive generalizations brought to you by joefixit. Ha cha cha'. | |
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