| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/9/2005 10:49:22 PM | i think we could make a great compramise. if enyone belives murderurs should live then they should pay for the cost through taxes. enyone who thinks they should die doesnt have to pay.
I garentee you a few years of that every liberal will be yelling and screaming to fry them. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 1:50:47 AM | | swiftcut, have you just ignored all the posts that told you it costs more to kill someone than keep them in prison? | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 6:42:01 AM | I don't think it has to do so much with the timing, as with the intense level of hypocrisy among Christians and conservatives in this country.
Great point. Add the word "some" christians and conservatives and I totally agree. Remember, many Catholics oppose both abortion and the death penalty. This is called "Culture of Life."
But for the right-to-lifers who claim to value life but still support the death penalty, I just have to wonder how they justify their position. If they base their argument on cost of keeping someone in jail -- then I retort with the cost of an un-wanted baby on a mother, society, etc. If they argue that it's no-longer an innocent life, then I retort, "isn't that for God to judge." and "why are you so sure our legal system is good enough to get it right?" | |
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mudbug
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Joined: 2/15/2005
Msg: 108 | |
| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 7:47:09 AM | | i would like to hear of one person in this room that HONESTLY has expierianced a brutal murder of a close family member and still is AGAINST the death penalty. whether it be for teens or not. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 7:58:41 AM | Mudbug, I first want to say that if this happened to you, I'm very sorry. And in no way I'm I trying to downplay the pain and anguish that a family in that situation must go through. I cannot imagine what that must be like.
But this is why we don't leave judgment up to the family. Because the state sanctioned killing of a life (innocent or not) is something we all must live with. If someone killed someone close to me, I'd probably want to hunt down and kill the SOB. But that's why the decision isn't left up to me. That pain and torment can cloud our better judgement. And when you ask the state to kill a murderer, you're really asking your neighbor, your child, somebody's grandma to kill for you in an act of vengence. Your pain is great but it doesn't outway everyone else having blood on their hands. | |
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mudbug
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Joined: 2/15/2005
Msg: 111 | |
| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:04:16 AM | all very nice, well constructed thoughts from your viewpoint. but i do not see an answer to my question.
i do not believe in vigilante justice. i believe that if, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a person is guilty for taking another's life, their life should be taken also. why should it not? and who would feel guilty about a murderers' blood on their hands? after all, can you imagine how many MORE murders we would have in this country if we did not have the option to execute? | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:08:21 AM | I can't answer your first question because I don't know how it feels.
As far as who would feel guilty. I would feel guity that the State has executed someone in my name -- that's enough for me.
Research hasn't been able to prove that the death penatly deters murder. And industrialized countries without the death penalty tend to have significantly lower homicide rates than the U.S. does. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:10:06 AM | Maybe they should let a close family member of the victims push "the button" so to speak.
Or if they want too.... or let the family of the victim appeal for "life" instead if they don't
want the person to be killed in their name.
Sorry, but I believe in the Death Penalty for extreme cases... of course I also
belive in the right to have an abortion and medically assisted suicide for the
terminally ill. Trying not to be a hypocrite when it comes to death. | |
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mudbug
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Joined: 2/15/2005
Msg: 114 | |
| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:13:39 AM | @shannagin' we have alot in common.
@kadmus
Research hasn't been able to prove that the death penatly deters murder. And industrialized countries without the death penalty tend to have significantly lower homicide rates than the U.S. does.
^^^^cite and prove.
as far as my question goes, yes, i've been through it. try to put yourself in my shoes.
really try to imagine, would you protest a killer's execution, even after he confesses? | |
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mudbug
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Joined: 2/15/2005
Msg: 115 | |
| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:17:17 AM | as far as teens and the death penalty...i would have to concede that there would be some cases where i would lock them up in a maximum security facility. but not ever give them the option of parole. but it's also a grey area....a fourteen yr old who rapes, tortures and kills.......a sixteen yr old who shoots his abusive, acoholic step-father.....???
its all a very tricky business.. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:20:38 AM | See below.
As far as your second point, I can't put myself in your shoes. I haven't been in your situation so I really don't know.
Murder rate (per 100,000 people):
United States 8.40
Canada 5.45
Denmark 5.17
Germany 4.20
Norway 1.99
United Kingdom 1.97
Sweden 1.73
Japan 1.20
Finland 0.70
Murder rate for males age 15-24 (per 100,000 people):
United States 24.4
Canada 2.6
Sweden 2.3
Norway 2.3
Finland 2.3
Denmark 2.2
United Kingdom 2.0
Netherlands 1.2
Germany 0.9
Japan 0.5
Rape (per 100,000 people):
United States 37.20
Sweden 15.70
Denmark 11.23
Germany 8.60
Norway 7.87
United Kingdom 7.26
Finland 7.20
Japan 1.40
Armed robbery (per 100,000 people)
United States 221
Canada 94
United Kingdom 63
Sweden 49
Germany 47
Denmark 44
Finland 38
Norway 22
Japan 1 | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:25:35 AM | Thanks Kadmus... I think I'll move to Finland.
I would say Japan, but there is that whole
docile women thing that I couldn't handle.  | |
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mudbug
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Joined: 2/15/2005
Msg: 119 | |
| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:35:42 AM | where are these statistics from? cite?
5.6 per 100,000
Source: Crime in the United States, 2002, FBI, Uniform Crime Reports.
Information Please® Database, ©2005 Pearson Education, Inc. All rights reserved
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mudbug
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Joined: 2/15/2005
Msg: 120 | |
| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:42:34 AM | can't really go by statistics, because there are so many other factors involved.
i will venture to say that we do have a higher rate than some, but ours is a violent culture.
even more the reason to employ the death penalty.
and i would also like to point out that having an open mind is sometimes putting yourself in others' shoes. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 8:44:03 AM | http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm
Ignore the comantary of the first post. I'm only interested in the data that matches up, give or take, with the UN's numbers.
Here is some more data from the U.N. that matches up but I can't copy and paste. I tried to check Interpol and the USDOJ but I didn't have any luck.
http://www.uncjin.org/Statistics/WCTS/WCTS6/wcts6data/wcts6data.html | |
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mudbug
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Joined: 2/15/2005
Msg: 122 | |
| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 9:26:08 AM | statistics mean nothing to me. specially u.n. statistics
i empathize w/ your position. | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 9:27:05 AM | ours is a violent culture - even more the reason to employ the death penalty.
I don't think it's being unfair to rephrase this to read, "Ours is a violent culture; why should the state be expected to behave any differently to the criminals?" | |
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mudbug
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Joined: 2/15/2005
Msg: 124 | |
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| teens and the death penalty
Posted: 3/10/2005 10:02:23 AM | my thoughts on the death penalty are based on this simple premise. when it really comes down to it, people can't help the way they turn out.
however, this does not mean they should be allowed to be a danger.
what do we do with a dog that runs around biting people? we put it to sleep. humanely and painlessly. we don't seek to punish the dog, it can't help the way it is.
neither, i argue, can people.
i say put them to sleep. humanely and painlessly. | |
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