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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/13/2008 4:53:33 PM | That is what the Child Support Tables are for... child support based on your income. It protects those who honestly can't afford to pay high child support. Having said that, if they can't afford to help support their kids, get a better job and learn to budget! You can bet that's what the person raising them has to do.
The brush strokes are painted when stories of men who can pay more however cheat the system and their children. Often this is when the ex is self-employed or under the table employed and can hide income very easily, until they make next to nothing. This is purely revenge based. Then the onus is on the custodial parent to prove they are not disclosing all income. Very costly in the courts. The only one who wins, is the lawyers.... they are killing us with court fees.
There are good responsible parents (it's not only men who pay child support), and then there are those who forget the money is to keep their CHILDREN in a similar lifestyle to the one they had been leading prior to the dissolusion of the family unit.
I get very little support for two teen children ($360 total per month)... I support the children and am putting one through college.
You do what you need to, when you love your children.... some ppl don't get the big picture. What goes around, comes around... the kids are old enough to understand the situation without me saying anything.
Sorry... this got a little long winded... it's a button....lol | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/13/2008 5:25:25 PM |
$51,100 for you?
Nice try, trying to convince us this poor guy is somehow getting the shaft and she is sitting on a pot of gold. He is only keeping himself, she is keeping herself and two children on this amount, seems to me he is still further ahead seeing how darn much it costs to raise kids.
never ceases to amaze me how bitter some men can be | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/13/2008 5:50:49 PM |
$51,100 for you?
Nice try, trying to convince us this poor guy is somehow getting the shaft and she is sitting on a pot of gold. He is only keeping himself, she is keeping herself and two children on this amount, seems to me he is still further ahead seeing how darn much it costs to raise kids.
never ceases to amaze me how bitter some men can be
Never ceases to amaze me how petty individuals only cut and past a little bit of the whole argument.
They each earned $40,000 and after the $600 or $7,200 cs was paid he had $32,800 remaining of which he pays income tax on the $40,000.
She has the $40,000 + the $7,200 plus the CCTB. which takes her to the $51,000 to his $32,800. But not to be forgotten is she on the $40,000 actually pays less income tax.
But I always understood woman supposedly wanted the fathers to be involved and active which is getting harder when you compare the two cash flows.
And I have a very good appreciation as how much it does and does not cost to raise a child or children. But unlike perhaps yourself I prefer to do it myself and not hobble or screw over the other parent of my children.
But then some woman are sterling examples of the hard nosed money lovers who can never see beyond their own wants.
But please enlighten us as to how he is supposed to provide a home for the children to come to when there is a vastly different income stream.
And it always amazes me the percentage of custodial fathers who collect cs compared to the percentage of mothers who collect cs. Or the percentage of custodial fathers who work full time compared to the percentage of custodial mothers who work full time.
But I am sure you will have a great argument to support how the father is further ahead trying to provide and be an active father with the income he has left. So instead of sarcasm with nothing substantive to say please enlighten the men how he is better off. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/13/2008 6:57:45 PM | | My ex and his new wife both quit their job at the same time to start a business. He told our son that I was being unreasonable to expect him to pay while he is starting a new business. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 2:47:18 AM | no op, the supporting my child has been the least of womens worries when I have dated/talked with them.
I think you will find that it is more they realize you arnt the person for them.
The right one will come. ;) | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 4:14:29 AM | Westpark, honey. No matter how you try and spin it, the fact remains, she is keeping the kids on that amount. Maybe if u quit just looking at the dollar amount, and really broke it down, you wouldnt need to feel so bitter about the whole situation.
But unlike perhaps yourself I prefer to do it myself and not hobble or screw over the other parent of my children.
I dont look at paying your fair share for the children you create,as screwing over the other parent. It is called your responsibility, you either live up to it or you dont.
But then some woman are sterling examples of the hard nosed money lovers who can never see beyond their own wants.
I dont know too many woman who are getting rich on child support. Most single parents i know are getting none. This is the classic rant of a bitter man.
But please enlighten us as to how he is supposed to provide a home for the children to come to when there is a vastly different income stream.
I bet their are alot of single parents who dont receive child support, who live on this amount or less. Im sure he could provide a place to come and visit on his income.
And it always amazes me the percentage of custodial fathers who collect cs compared to the percentage of mothers who collect cs
Maybe women are more inclined to go after what their children are entitled to. Or maybe men just make more, so their need isnt as immeadiate.
{quote]Or the percentage of custodial fathers who work full time compared to the percentage of custodial mothers who work full time.
all of the single women i know, work full time. Then again, our kids are older.
But I am sure you will have a great argument to support how the father is further ahead trying to provide and be an active father with the income he has left. So instead of sarcasm with nothing substantive to say please enlighten the men how he is better off So, what do you suggest. the kids live in poverty, so dear old dad doesnt have to. The fact remains, he is keeping himself. she is keeping herself and the kids, which is costing her a heck of alot more.The dollar amounts more than likely even out.
Before you jump all over me, with the bitter man mantra. My ex makes more than me even after he pays his support. I havent had a raise in said support for seven years. I could haul him into court to get it raised, but, you know what. I could care less, he is a good dad. Even with support i dont make much more than the quy who is making 32,000. My kids have everything they need,and are happy.
maybe that is the difference between men and women, men make threads and biatch about how hard done by they are, women just live their life and do the best they can for their kids. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 5:40:48 AM |
My ex and his new wife both quit their job at the same time to start a business. He told our son that I was being unreasonable to expect him to pay while he is starting a new business.
Well that is simply avoided ones obligations or responsibilities. Like those who avoid paying cs by going back to school.
I Canada deliberately under employing yourself to avoid cs obligations is not acceptable so the cs can be factored by the amount the non custodial should be earning as opposed to what he might actually be earning or claiming. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 6:26:08 AM |
Westpark, honey. No matter how you try and spin it, the fact remains, she is keeping the kids on that amount. Maybe if u quit just looking at the dollar amount, and really broke it down, you wouldn't need to feel so bitter about the whole situation.
I don't look at paying your fair share for the children you create,as screwing over the other parent. It is called your responsibility, you either live up to it or you don't.
How much is fair share? You are the one carping about money but not saying how much would satisfy you.
But then some woman are sterling examples of the hard nosed money lovers who can never see beyond their own wants.
I don't know too many woman who are getting rich on child support. Most single parents i know are getting none. This is the classic rant of a bitter man.
I do not remember ever suggesting that she was getting rich. But are you suggesting the +$50,000 a year is not enough when the father is sitting with $32,800. Perhaps you might like to suggest then how much more you would like to see the mother receive and what amount would you suggest is reasonable for the father to have remaining. And before you suggest second jobs...that money is then required to be applied to the cs and takes time away from seeing his children.
My ex makes more than me even after he pays his support. I haven't had a raise in said support for seven years. I could haul him into court to get it raised, but, you know what. I could care less, he is a good dad. Even with support i don't make much more than the guy who is making 32,000. My kids have everything they need,and are happy.
So you are saying your children do well with the income of $32,000 while you also complain that the mother who was at a combined $50,000 is not receiving enough?
I think this is a perfect example of a bitter rant: But please suggest a number that would satisfy you in respect to what this father should be paying his ex. I really would like to hear how much is enough to satisfy a woman who suggests she is not bitter?
And the fact you are earning what you are is a result of choices you have made in life. I have had the pleasure of knowing a number of woman who earn a very good income well in excess of $100,000 and they are doing so because of choices they made in school and after.....and not whining about what they are not given.
maybe that is the difference between men and women, men make threads and **** about how hard done by they are, women just live their life and do the best they can for their kids.
Sorry but it is the mothers who are complaining about how hard done bye they are. I cannot remember a time I have ever advocated or suggested not supporting your child or children. But I have suggested or questioned how much is enough and suggested I do not ask for cs as it would cripple the abilty of my ex to have her children over in a suitable or similar style of housing.
I doubt if you would ever suggest or be willing to advocate that children have two homes of suitable substance so they can share a quality existence from both parents. But this is of course based on the requirement that both parents hold down good paying jobs and are working to their ability?
So, what do you suggest. the kids live in poverty, so dear old dad doesn't have to. The fact remains, he is keeping himself. she is keeping herself and the kids, which is costing her a heck of allot more.The dollar amounts more than likely even out.
Evens out? i thought you were saying he is not paying enough? And like most other woman you fail or refuse to address the living conditions or considerations of the ncp home.
For you I would suggest "Best Interest of the children" is only what benefits your own position.
And some woman who are most adamant against shared parenting are so because
they need all the money you can collect from cs because they are unwilling or unable to earn it themselves. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 10:01:38 AM |
How much is fair share? You are the one carping about money but not saying how much would satisfy you.
I know you arent a stupid person, and since it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that what most non custodial parents pay in support, doesnt come close to what it actually costs to raise a child. The logical conclusion would be that the custodial parent is picking up the slack. Alot of non custodial parents fail to see this, they cant see past their own bitterness. Instead of paying what the courts consider fair, they **** and whine and say the custodial parent is nothin but a golddigger, these are shaming tactics used mostly by bitter men.
So you are saying your children do well with the income of $32,000 while you also complain that the mother who was at a combined $50,000 is not receiving enough?
I dont think i ever stated that the mother who was getting 50,000 wasnt getting enough. i am in no position to decide that, Just as you are in no position to state that she is getting more than enough, i simply stated she is keeping two extra people.
Everyones situation is different, i can possibly make it on my income cause my mortgage is very small, perhaps hers isnt.
really would like to hear how much is enough to satisfy a woman who suggests she is not bitter?
It has nothing to do with being bitter, it costs money to raise a child, and every year it costs more, why shouldnt the non custodial parent help pick up the slack. If you are trying to insinuate that i am bitter, you couldnt be further from the truth. My ex and i get along fine. We have learned to negotiate very well over the years and have put our differences aside.What is in the best interest of our children is all that matters to us both.
think this is a perfect example of a bitter rant I fail to see a bitter rant in anything i have posted.Nice try.
And the fact you are earning what you are is a result of choices you have made in life. I have had the pleasure of knowing a number of woman who earn a very good income well in excess of $100,000 and they are doing so because of choices they made in school and after.....and not whining about what they are not given
i dont think i ever stated i was unhappy with my choices. I simply stated my ex made more money than i do. keep on trying to twist my words to suit your agenda.You are very transparent and predictable. The bottom line is i called you on your nonsence about how hard done by this poor man making 32,000 a year was and stated the obvious, that even though his ex was getting more money than him, she was also keeping two extra people. That my dear didnt quite jive with your insinuation that this woman who was getting 52,000 a year was somehow screwing her ex. I know exatly why you are trying to make me out as bitter and money hungry, that is because you cant refute my statement that she is keeping two extra people, you dont have any real argument, so you resort to insults. like i said you are very transparent.
Evens out? i thought you were saying he is not paying enough
dont think i ever stated he wasnt paying enough,you were the one who seemed to have a problem with the dollar amounts. I said, after you take into consideration the two extra people, they might just be even.
For you I would suggest "Best Interest of the children" is only what benefits your own position guess you missed, or chose to ignore the fact that i havent received a raise in support in seven years. I would hazard a guess that what is in your childrens best intersts is what best suits your position. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 10:32:19 AM | | This is a really interesting diatribe you two have going on here. Westpark & dreamcatcher, you both show a lot of commonality in your writings....you are both bitter...you both are money orientated when it comes to your kids....you both are trying HARD to speak for ALL men and ALL women and cover up the fact that you are both really p*issed off, angry and hurt...not to mention frustrated about what you can not control. If it is money you two...you are both quite able to spend time intelligently snivelling and whining about not enough money instead of working more efficently to perhaps EARN more, instead of having it handed to the BOTH of you! Try this..... get another job.....better or a second one.......instead screwing off at work or at home on your free time to write this bulls*hit ( Hey...really...what will writing any of this change for either of ya??? ) | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 10:40:33 AM | | $7200 per annum in child support would barely cover daycare/babysitting costs which allows the mother to continue working to pay for clothes/food/activities/books/school trips/back to school supplies and clothes/dentist and doctor's visits/other incidentals she needs to pay for with the 2 children. Which I am sure she does willingly and happily, but it seems we are debating just the financials. If she is working and the primary caregiver it would be probably be reasonable to assume she is also paying the premium/deductable for health care coverage for the family, takes personal vacation days to allow for doctor's and dentist's appointments and needs to stay home when the kids are sick, etc etc. My point is a lot of NCPs think their financial obligation ends with the support they are paying but the reality is it costs more for the CP, who ALSO must pay for the home, utilities/phone etc., as well as the other direct costs associated with children. It's not a matter of right or wrong here, but rather some poster's not considering the other costs associated with the children into their logic. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 10:59:53 AM | Amore...you might have a legimate **** there.....I bet the answer is to have the father have the kids half the time and let HIM figure out what to do about all of this.....of course this might make the issue of child support moot....and ruin a whole lot of folks ****in' times....  | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 11:11:54 AM | Henry,
I dont believe that Amore was saying that the father's should have the children half the time, I think she was pointing out that it takes more then the support that the NCP pays to take care of the child, and rather then complaine about how much you are paying realize that you are only paying that and not more.
There is a diffrence. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 11:37:48 AM |
you are both bitter...you both are money orientated when it comes to your kids
Oh, i get it henry, because i stated the woman in question, was also keeping two extra people, now i am bitter and money oriented. I get it now, thanks for clearing that up.
Although, i believe, that the custodial parent has a right to have the support increased on a yearly basis,cause we all know the cost of raising kids goes up every year. I myself, chose not to take that route. hardly the actions of a money oriented person. Bitter nah, happy and content with my life, yes. There is nothing to be bitter and angry about, my ex and i worked out our differences long ago.
I also love my job, most of the time. It may not pay the best, but i get by. My kids are happy and well adjusted. Its all good. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 12:07:00 PM | | dreamy take it ALL in...not just the one part......I'll pick you some posies! | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 12:11:58 PM | | Mom, I got what Amore was saying, she isn't discreet.....I am saying that BOTH parents should have the kids should have the kids half the time, and I'm not takin' a poll here...I could care less what anybody else thinks....it's a situation that would be better for everyone concerned....unless the person you made the baby with was a criminal or something and the woman was forced ( men can't be raped...and...once again, I don't give a d*amn what anyone thinks about THAT either! ) | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 12:46:48 PM | | ^^^^^^^^^ I agree that yes both parent's should have the kids half the time but sometimes that is not possiable. And has nothing to do with being a criminal. Sometimes there are reason's that they cant do the split thing. For example, my ex (well we are working on being back together) can/could not do the split custody because of the fact that he is gone for work across the country sometimes for 6 months at a time. So we do joint with him having her every second weekend (so the paper's say, but he can have time with her when ever he want's). So again not all times is it possible to work it that way. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 12:57:12 PM | | Men who do not pay their child support raise a red flag for me unless their are not physically capable of working. You want to make the kids u have to share responsibility for them. As far as having to deal with the ex's, it comes with the package. my kids still see their step mom even though she and my ex are separated. i trust her with them more than their father and she does more with them than he has ever done in the last 14 years. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 1:50:01 PM |
it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that what most non custodial parents pay in support, doesnt come close to what it actually costs to raise a child. The logical conclusion would be that the custodial parent is picking up the slack. Alot of non custodial parents fail to see this, they cant see past their own bitterness.
My ex-wife complained ONCE about how difficult it is to raise our daughter and the financial responsibilities. I told her to give me full custody and pay me support because I would gladly raise my child on a full time basis. She took it upon herself to get a career and excel in her job. Now, she has two homes, a nice car, nice clothes and sends our daughter to private horse back riding lessons. Not bad! I'm actually proud of my ex-wife for doing what is necessary to excel in life.
Instead of paying what the courts consider fair, they **** and whine and say the custodial parent is nothin but a golddigger, these are shaming tactics used mostly by bitter men.
Lol. Let's reverse the trend. You can bust your bottom to educate yourself, get a career and excel in it. Then give your children to the NCP and only have 20% custody while you pay out huge support payments. Take my challenge. :-) | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 2:28:25 PM | Henry, I understand in certain situations why one parent is the custodial parent. Either Mom or Dad is a flake and they should not raise their children.
My ex-wife is a prime example of going from a high school educated stay at home mother to having a corporate career to better her life and her childs. I am simply tired of hearing about the entitlement mentality this nation has. Be like my ex-wife and me. Bust your bottom to better yourself. Do it for yourself and your children. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 2:48:11 PM | "$7200 per annum in child support would barely cover daycare/babysitting costs which allows the mother to continue working "
Daycare and babysitting costs are considered extraordinary expenses and the ncp should responsible for the net amount (1/2 the daycare less the tax refund as a result of the CP claiming the deduction).
"If she is working and the primary caregiver it would be probably be reasonable to assume she is also paying the premium/deductable for health care coverage for the family, takes personal vacation days to allow for doctor's and dentist's appointments and needs to stay home when the kids are sick, etc etc"
Not sure what it is like amongst your group of friends but with mine the ncp father pays the health insurance (most of the time its through their employer) in Canada, if the cp takes one a day off when the child is sick they take the next day and attend most doctors and dentists appointments. But this could be because most of my friends are responsible father who take every opportunity to be with the kids and do not have ex's that prevent this.
"My point is a lot of NCPs think their financial obligation ends with the support they are paying but the reality is it costs more for the CP, who ALSO must pay for the home, utilities/phone etc., as well as the other direct costs associated with children"
It is reasonable though to assume that the ncp will have a similar number of bedrooms for the children meaning that there is not a material difference in housing costs except utilities.
"NCPs think their financial obligation ends with the support they are paying but the reality is it costs more for the CP,"
It would be good see some numbers to back this statement including the related tax effects, deductions and tax credits that need to be taken into account. | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 2:54:05 PM | | Mel....I hear ya....long ago, I put myself thru school....learned a trade...did it for years...then 14 years ago I started my own business and am still successfully running it...I do ok...but thanks | |
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| men who pay child support
Posted: 8/14/2008 6:49:06 PM | Firstly I am discreet and to call me otherwise is insulting. I am outspoken and when I am debating a point, I do not let other's intimidation tactics alter my course of reasoning.
That being said, I think there are too many variable situations at play in this debate. That is great when the NCP pays the premiums for health care in your group, but in the scenario being discussed, both parties were working full time earning the same income, therefore it made sense for the assumption to be the custodial parent would pay premiums for health care. The burden of staying home with a sick child would fall more on the shoulders of the CP as they are home with the child more. As any parent knows, a lot of times the child goes to bed fine but in the morning it's a different story, probably too late to make alternate arrangements with a NCP. I in no way meant to imply fathers who are active in their child's life would not step up to such opportunities, only that the custodial arrangements being discussed would not likely be split evenly down the middle just due to the nature of when a child gets sick. Your scenario requires both parties communicate exceptionally well, and confer with one another before appointments are set to ensure it works with the schedule of the parent whose "turn" it is. This to me is not realistic for a majority of cases, sadly, so again good for you that you are so involved and you and your ex can work so well together but it is not the case a lot of the time. I can't debate every issue, only the one before me.
There is an additional way for "extraordinary" expenses to be split 50/50 by both parties, but it differs from province to province and state to state so I left it out of the dialogue, just using it as an example of what financial obligations over and above what is received for child support are shouldered by a parent. If these are split 50/50, then it would cancel the argument out, but there are still additional expenses.
As for the home, I only stated the CP also has to pay a mortgage and utilities as does the NCP for parity.
I can come up with some numbers, but only for the scenario being debated. There are just too many variables to please every one here, it depends on the custodial arrangements (ie 70/30 split?), who retained the marital home in a divorce, who pays the health premiums, who pays for extra expenses above the mandated child support, who pays support at all, how many children, their ages, etc etc You can see how one set of numbers won;t help anyone's cause in this discussion. | |
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