| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 3/14/2005 10:18:03 PM | "So 2 wiccans 4 Christians and 53 athiests walk into a bar and anounce that they own the place..."
Looking at the list I can't pick out one thread in this fourm section that specifically isn't a Bait fest, or doesn't turn into one in about 3 posts. | |
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| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 3/14/2005 10:19:18 PM | I would like to address, what I think is a Christian misconception, about the story of Abraham.
This story, grounded originally in judaism, but also islam, poses a number of issues for scholars of all three religions. Abraham, it can be argued, was put through these tests to appease a god and show his willingness to do anything...but this is something that god should have known at the beginning, no? And, further to that, why would you require such tests, when you could always just look within the heart of the man and see for yourself (god, I think all the major theologians agree, could do this).
So, when while I think gamerdork's invective (and sorry boss, but while I feel for what you're going through, you're taking the same line as many that you so deride...that is, unthinking dismissal of all that doesn't match up...it's a disease of fanatacism, regardless what belief your corner of the ring is)...isn't helpful, it's not simply to be dismissed...
Many jewish scholars feel the question is likely Abraham misunderstanding God's wishes of him...at least as I've heard it.
Many islamic scholars seem to have a similar thought, but more aimed at the sense that his son was also somehow being put through this test for his own teaching.
Christians? I dunno, they usually go for the simplest answer.
Anyway, back to your corners you naughty, ex-christians and christians...
Ready?
Okay...
There's the bell...GO! | |
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| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 3/14/2005 10:49:00 PM |
Perhaps Abrahams tests were to show Abraham where his heart lay, not to show God.
Hey man, yeah, possibly, but the biblical story never suggests that Abraham is unclear in his belief, Abraham's heart is of no doubt except that he wonders why he is being asked to do these things (because he knows that his heart isn't in doubt)...
I brought that post up only because there are serious theological debates, still, in jewish circles (and to an extent, islamic, as they too are interested in these things) about this very subject. The question of Abraham is one of those ones that begs to know whether this is a mean-spirited god...or a god that undertakes pointless exercises...
Anyway... | |
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| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 3/14/2005 11:13:06 PM | Amen RDtoo...i feel that it was also to test Abraham's faith in God... Abraham was willing to kill his son knowing that God had promised many nations to come from his sons seed(he must have belived that god would bring him back from the dead)...also it was for us to see that we cannot have idols in our lives that nothing should come before our love of God not even our family...i also have seen that the tests and trials of our faith is for our benifit not God's for he does see our hearts...and we cannot...how can we repent if we do not have our hearts exposed to us...how can we grow if we are not challanged???
now on the whole ex christian thing look to the prodical son...he went off to live in the world and live in the lusts of the flesh...eventually he came home and was excepted back into to his fathers house when he was willing to be a slave to his father...i myself had strayed from the faith due to the spirit of the big brother....but i was broght back by God to be in the pentacostal church i now attend...i have mybeliefs about the whole "chrismatic thing" that being God is a concuming fire of passion...and thoses in his presince are truly changed...i think the church needs to be purpose driven and balance the teachings on how a church needs to be...alot of people dont take the time to listen to God when he speaks of talk the time to learn to pray in his will...and how to be open to how he chooses to answer prayers...
my faith was re-awakened and i have seen too much of Gods glorie to walk away toomany prayers answered to doubt his faithfullness and had His word come to life and change mine to not know that it is truth | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 81 | |
| abraham and isac
Posted: 3/15/2005 7:40:50 AM | abraham learned many lessons while wandering around in the wilderness, directed by god.
some of them were also for our benifit, demonstrating things in god's plan to come.
from the beginning, god knew what his was plan was, and was demonstrating pieces of it. | |
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| abraham and isac
Posted: 3/15/2005 7:53:40 AM | | no offense... but i have to just be apauled at that whole story... so god pretty much tells abraham to kill his own son? i mean wow... thats a noble and just thing to ask a disiple... more so because he is omnipitent why would he require this? he knew the out come before it would even happen... to me this is just negative and wrong... if god came to me right now and demanded i kill my brother or son to prove my faith i'd tell him to go **** himself... | |
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| abraham and isac
Posted: 3/15/2005 7:55:11 AM | ^^ Count me in on that. Sorry, but my blind faith only goes so far. Too bad God didn't stop Andrea Yates with a "I was just kidding, Lass!" before she drowned her little boys.
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 84 | |
| abraham and isac
Posted: 3/15/2005 9:09:42 AM | i can understand why you feel it's a disgusting story.
but, abraham was very familiar with the creator and his powers and his will, and things of the future.
jesus walked straight to death. i know, you can claim abraham ''heard voices'' like andrea yates. | |
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| abraham and isac
Posted: 3/15/2005 9:37:20 AM | This story has given me problems since I was knee high to a grasshopper.
I do not find the piety or honor in this story, no matter which way I turn my head to read it. If some voice in my head told me to sacrifice my child, I'd head straight for the hospital. Abraham didn't have that option. | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 86 | |
| abraham and isac
Posted: 3/15/2005 11:53:04 AM | some people find it disgusting that god is allowing little children in many lands to starve to death, or die from diseases.
some people go into a hospital and get an abortion.
some people find it disgusting that god sent his son to die, like the rest of us.
ya, if you hear a voice telling you to sacrifice your child, go check yourself in.
abraham was familiar with the voice and the power. | |
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| abraham and isac
Posted: 3/15/2005 3:10:21 PM | God knows all that is to happen every decision etc.
But thing is... it is Satan that "causes" the bad/evil things/doings, He (our Father) turns good out of the bad. Know not and search not= nu un not cool! Want to know? Then quit making up your mind before hand. Don't want to know?, then quit fighting those that really aren't fighting you. | |
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| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 3/17/2005 12:59:17 PM | Thank you, thank you , thank you Bombmom for expressing it before I had to. If you are a christian, there is absolutely no ex to it. If they are -ex, they never 'were' to begin with. Instead of giving up and assuming they are -ex, they should they should actually invite the Lord into their hearts, and go for the most loving ride of their lives!    | |
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| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 3/17/2005 1:10:31 PM | And if doing so brings you closer to God via a path that leads you away from the silly corrupt man made social structure?
You seem to think love, goodness, connection with the Divine is a concept exclusive only to Christians. | |
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| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 3/19/2005 12:57:19 AM | It might just be my lack of Bible blind following but people jumped on Loci for seeing visions and hearing voices in his religion or I think I read seeing and hearing voices is wrong no matter what.... anyways as I run-on sentence... ummm, didn't Moses see and hear things? Didn't many people in the bible see or hear the word of God? How is this different? I think in either religion the person hearing or seeing believes. It is their perception so why must they be ridiculed and called drug users and such just because it is not the norm. American Indians have visions and such (I'm not talking about peyote either) but theirs don't seem to be brushed aside as easily as pagans. It is still brushed aside but not as quickly.
A Wiccian?? I don't think I want to know what your gods say to you.......God speaks to his believers through his word. If I heard a voice coming out of nowhere, I don't think I'll stick around to see who it is!
Sounds like fear of Wicca than anything else. If you run away, you might just miss your one opportunity to speak with your God. How would you know? You ran away.
As for the topic of the actual thread.... sorry RD, I don't know enough about Penecost...(sorry for the misspelling I can't remember how to spell it) to offer anything other than.... hey, good for you if you found something you can believe and become a better person with! I think there are probably close to equal amounts of people dropping religions going to another and returning to one. Only you don't hear or know of all the religions and people out there in the world so the ones you hear sound enormous considering. | |
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| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 10/18/2005 1:57:40 PM | | RD I definately agree with you. Pentacostals are so finatical that they DRIVE people away from God instead of showing love, its all about burning forever and ever for lack of obeying. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 93 | |
| the bible is fault y
Posted: 10/20/2005 10:32:02 AM | Yay!!! Loci!!!
My mom took me to different churches when I was a kid; so I could choose for myself. Guess what? I'm a witch!!!
As for christians complaining about being treated like s**t......shall we talk about the inquisition......or the salem witch burnings....or the discrimination against non christians that still goes on? | |
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jsj60
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Joined: 8/4/2006
Msg: 94 | |
| the bible is fault y
Posted: 9/21/2006 9:44:11 PM | | I personally don't know any true Christians that complain about how they are treated concerning their beliefs.The inquisition,salem witch burnings,and all of the other people killed by people,were doing the work of satan,not God! I feel sorry for all of the witch's,satan worshipers,and homosexuals.They are going to be in the worse level of hell,and you would know this as well if you did a little research.Read the small paperback book,a divine revalation of hell,then ask yourself,is it really worth taking even the smallest risk of spending forever screaming,being tortured because you chose to be for satan instead of Jesus???Jesus who loved you so much that He died for you just so you would have the opportunity to except Him and go to heaven forever instead??? The bible is NOT faulty,people are,and if you read the new testament,and you understand what you read,you will be a lot happier for making the right choice! Be careful of who you let teach you the true word because their are a lot of confused people in the world,and they will drag you down with them if you aren't careful.Satan is the great deceiver,he comes to steal,kill,and destoy,and he loves to hear that someone has decided to become a witch,wicca,homosexual,etc.He knows that he has brought you down to his level,so you will spend eternity with him just like adolf hitler. | |
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| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 9/21/2006 10:39:36 PM | One of the problems with being Catholic or Pentecostal/Charismatic is the possible perception in these faiths that instant and sure response to prayer and relief from suffering is available. This is not always so. It's important to read the book of Job and understand that continued misery may be the order of the day, week, year or even lifetime. It takes stamina to maintain one's faith in the face of unbearable circumstances.
Though there may be no letup in his misfortunes, if a believer asks for a small sign that God is aware of his plight, this he may be granted. | |
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| the bible is fault y
Posted: 10/31/2006 12:18:15 AM |
The inquisition,salem witch burnings,and all of the other people killed by people,were doing the work of satan,not God! I feel sorry for all of the witch's,satan worshipers,and homosexuals.They are going to be in the worse level of hell,and you would know this as well if you did a little research.Read the small paperback book,a divine revalation of hell,then ask yourself,is it really worth taking even the smallest risk of spending forever screaming,being tortured because you chose to be for satan instead of Jesus???
Umm....you say people are faulty right? Then you go on to say read a specific book....isn't that written by the same faulty people? Isn't the bible written by faulty people? Hmm.... yah, I'm gonna believe someone who wrote a book because it's the truth. Sam I am loves green eggs and ham. It must be true, I read it in a book.
I just don't see the proof you are talking about. Also, I think your research needs some work since the Salem Witch Trials actually killed innocent people. They weren't witches, just people who owned land that higher society people wanted.
I guess if you were to follow story book characters like Jesus then homosexuals are just fine. Jesus loves everyone remember? or do you just pick out the lines you like? Also, if you ask for forgiveness aren't you absolved of all your sins? Can't you just ask to be forgiven at the end? Besides, you can't hide all the bad things you do that you don't even think twice about......guess you'll pay for those in the end eh?  | |
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| the bible is fault y
Posted: 10/31/2006 8:12:04 AM | I like this thread...thought provoking...
Well, I am not an ex-CHristian, frankly myself. I am a Christian/Hindu/Buddhist/Reformed Jew.
Since Christianity was origionally REFORMED JUDAISM, I just figured the JEWS should have a much more correct input on what is there than...white southern Baptists.
It seems that when you take another cultures religion and you interpret it....trouble is afoot.
Now, Judaism, it turns out, is mostly REFORMED Zoarastrinaism in the Cannanite way (Yahweh was a local Storm God in the Canaanite pantheon).
Oh, dear all these reformatios of reformations....of bad translations of mideast culure.
Whew....thats why I like studying archeology and Semitic language roots (of which there are five leading back to Chaldean. It helps in solving the "American CHristian Puzzle" of ascertaining the beliefs and practices of JUDAISM !!!!! Jesus was a JEW, not a member of ANY single American CHristian denomination...FURTHER< he said he'd not come to change a jot or tittle of the whole thing.....just reform it. That;s all....Just clean house. That's all.
So, when I see people trying to take the American johnny come latly version of REFORMED JUDAISM (er CHristian Cult) and say, NO, my version is best, I need an asprin. | |
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| Something I've noticed about ex-Christians
Posted: 10/31/2006 8:59:58 AM | And there are TWO types of ex-christians. Those that fell away from god out of contempt or disappointment, and those that grow closer to god and no longer need the "crutch" of religion. "Christians" oft talk about their "personal" relationship with god, but take away the bible and their church and they haven't anything personal at all. People believe in the bible because they are told to -- there are literally THOUSANDS of "christian" writings from the first century -- why did the catholic church pick the 27 that it did? (Sorry to all you protestant folks out there -- the bible IS a catholic book.) There are 1700 religions* on this planet -- you think yours is the "one true way?" You do realize you are betting your very soul on it.
*The actual estimate of belief structures is around 10,000. 1700 is a rough estimate of distinguishable sects with enough influence to get noticed. | |
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| Ex-Christians...
Posted: 10/31/2006 9:04:39 AM | I seem to have written this post at the same time Toolman wrote his...his comments partially answer my question, but I still want to comment.
Gee...I can't get past the original question.
If you were ever a Christian, that suggests that you believe (d) in God, and the Christ event, right? (Along with all the ensuing apparati: Heaven, Hell, etc.)
If you become an ex-Christian, do you cease to believe? Is that possible?
Or would the term ex-Christian apply to someone who decides to reject God and the Christ event? (Along with the laws of God and whichever church one has belonged to.) And if that would be the case, wouldn't you still be a Christian? A different kind of Christian, perhaps, like, for example, a Christian who is ticked-off or disappointed?
It seems to me that becoming an ex-Christian would still be a religious act; a religious decision. Can you actually extricate yourself from previous beliefs?
To be concise: What exactly IS an ex-Christian? I ask because I really don't know... | |
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| Ex-Christians...
Posted: 10/31/2006 9:10:58 AM | To define "ex-christianity":
To be a "christian" is to adhere to a (and I stress "a" because there are so many sects) belief structure based around the teachings of christ.
Therefore, to be "ex-christian" on would have had to adhere to those beliefs, and subsequently given up that belief structure for a different one (ie, buddhism, spiritualism, even atheism [yeah I know you atheists hate to admit it])
being an "ex-christian" has no bearing on one's ability to believe in god, although most people think of "ex-christians" as atheists or heathens (Heathen being someone that believes in a different god than the one mentioned in the bible.) | |
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