online dating service
REGISTER | MAIL/PROFILE | HELP | NOW ONLINE | SEARCH | RATING | FORUMS | SUCCESS STORIES

 

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest 100% free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Spike Lee's documentary - "When The Levees Broke"      Mod Threads Home login  
Page 2 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
 Author Thread: Spike Lee's documentary - "When The Levees Broke"
 Algernon Moncrieff

Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 26
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 12:53:47 PM
I couldn't agree more, however what makes it all the more difficult to swallow is that: The world is in hysterics watching American government fail. Shakespeare said: "Tragedy plus time equals comedy"

When will Bush stop and realize that the whole world is laughing at America.

Then again I don't think he cares. (about America.)
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 27
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 2:25:42 PM
1) You take them to designated hurricane shelters that have been pre-approved by the local government.


The people of New Orleans had weathered out two previous hurricanes inside the Superdome, and when Katrina hit - that's where they went again.


Approximately 9,000 residents and 550 National Guardsmen rode out the night in the Superdome as Katrina came ashore. Maj. Gen. Bennett C. Landreneau, Adjutant General for the Louisiana National Guard, said that the number of people taking shelter in the Superdome rose to around 15,000 to 20,000 as search and rescue teams brought more people to the Superdome from areas hit hard by the flooding.

The Superdome was built to withstand most catastrophes; the roof was ostensibly estimated to be able to withstand winds with speeds of up to 200 mph; flood waters could still possibly reach the second level 20 feet from the ground, making the structure an unreliable shelter in severe rain and wind. When looking into the origins of this 200 mph wind security in the Superdome, CNN reported that no engineering study had ever been completed on the amount of wind the structure can withstand; the building's engineering study was underway as Hurricane Katrina approached and was put on hold. It was used as an emergency shelter although it was neither designed nor tested for the task. However, the damage to the roof was not catastrophic, with just 2 relatively small holes and the ripping off of most of the easily replaceable white rubber membrane on the outer layer.

On August 29, 2005, at about 9:00 AM EDT, reports from inside the Superdome were that part of the roof was "peeling off," daylight could be seen from inside the dome, and rain was pouring in. The Associated Press stated there were two holes, "each about 15 to 20 feet long and 4 to 5 feet wide", and that water was making its way in at elevator shafts and other small openings.

When the flooding began on August 30, the Superdome began to slowly fill with water, though it remained confined to the field level. Later that day, Governor Blanco ordered New Orleans completely evacuated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Superdome



The storm, which was the costliest hurricane as well as one of the deadliest natural disasters in U.S. history, made its second and third landfalls in the Gulf Coast region on August 29, 2005 as a powerful Category 3 hurricane. By August 31, 2005, eighty percent (80%) of the city was flooded, with some parts under 20 feet (6.1 meters) of water. Four of the city's protective levees were breached, including the 17th Street Canal levee, the Industrial Canal levee, and the London Avenue Canal floodwall.

Although more than 80% of residents evacuated, the rest remained. The Louisiana Superdome, used as a designated "refuge of last resort" for those who remained in the city, also sustained significant damage, including two sections of the roof that were compromised, and the dome's waterproof membrane had essentially been peeled off. As the city flooded, many who remained in their homes had to swim for their lives, wade through deep water, or remain trapped in their attics or on their rooftops.

Although Mayor Ray Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city, many remained voluntarily, which a CNN writer described as "gambling with their own lives." Reasons were numerous, including feeling their homes or the buildings they planned to stay in offered sufficent protection, lack of financial resources or access to transportation, a feeling of obligation to protect their property, or fearing that the tribulations of evacuation (which many went throught the previous year with Ivan) were more of a hazard than the hurricane risk.

A "refuge of last resort," was designated at the Louisiana Superdome. Beginning at noon on August 28 and running for several hours, city buses were redeployed to shuttle local residents from 12 pickup points throughout the city to the, "shelters of last resort." Several hundred school buses were also available, yet they were not deployed, apparently because not enough drivers could be found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_Hurricane_Katrina_on_New_Orleans


Bush only sent the first troops in on Sept 3rd, 2006 - FOUR days after a major American city was pretty much completely flooded, and thousands trapped without food, water, or medical care in extreme heat - and with criminal elements taking control of the city.

In that type of enviroment, hours are the difference between life and death. Dehydration and dysentary (from contaminated water) , gangrene (from infected wounds) and other such medical conditions can kill in far less than four days.

Couple that with the psychological trauma of feeling that no help is on it's way, and you have the perfect set-up for disaster - as desperate people start to panic.

This from the same man who had spent the previous five years talking about "homeland security". It was pretty obvious to anyone watching the TV images that people were in serious trouble, and were pretty much written off. There is no excuse why troops could not have been airlifted in to assist in trauma care, and emergency provision distribution.

That's what they are trained for, to set up facilities in difficult conditions. Though they could not have constitutionally been used as policemen, their very arrival in the city would have helped to restore calm, and to allow people to see that help was on the way.

The Army certainly would have had the right to fire back at anyone shooting at them, and that alone would have stopped many from even trying to disrupt the rescue effort.


President Bush authorized the dispatch of 7,200 active-duty ground troops to the area -- the first major commitment of regular ground forces in the crisis -- and the Pentagon announced that an additional 10,000 National Guard troops will be sent to Louisiana and Mississippi, raising the total Guard contingent to about 40,000.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html


The lack of such an effort, in the America of 2006, was a national tragedy. People died because other people did not do their job.

Again, had it happened in a rich community - every effort would have been made to send assistance.
 Hezron

Joined: 12/15/2005
Msg: 28
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 2:32:43 PM
I have to totally agree with Montreal Guy. Too often we mistake class issues for racial ones. The Police and the government work for the rich. At a primal level it has nothing to do with race...race overlaps the class demographic in most cases. Here in Toronto, it does not matter what clour of skin you have...it matters where your house s located. So if you are in a nice swanky section of town then you receive different services from the government agencies that are supposed to work for all. The Police protect the rich neighborhoods and they prey upon the poor. I think often that the powers that be play the race issue to take our eyes off the fact that we have become a segregated society...but it is rich and poor...not black and white or brown or yellow.
 TheLadyOfTheLake

Joined: 2/5/2005
Msg: 29
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 3:10:57 PM
Interestingly, I just returned from a week's visit to the city of New Orleans. I talked to a LOT of people there ..... everyone from bellhops, waiters and salespersons, to executives, hotel managers, and doctors. All of these people were New Orleans residents long before Katrina hit, and all had chosen to stay afterwards, as New Orleans was, and is, "their city". Before my trip, I knew only what I saw on the news ...... CNN perhaps biased in one direction, and FOX perhaps biased toward another. Before my trip, I didn't fully comprehend what had actually occurred, nor the timeframe of events as they unfolded either. BUT, after talking to the RESIDENTS there ......... from every walk of life ......... and sometimes for hours ........ I can unequivocally say this ......... they ALL lay the blame for poor post-Katrina performance on the CITY AND STATE GOVERNMENT, ...... most especially the Mayor and the Governor!

I, personally, have nothing at stake as regards this issue no matter who is responsible, but I just thought it interesting that those who actually LIVE there, and have chosen to stay, and know what really happened because they LIVED IT, say that the Mayor and Governor were hopelessly ineffective ......... that both had prior warnings of what was coming and what could occur, and that both chose not to do anything about them ........ and that both should be held accountable for the poor lack of response in the wake of the hurricane. That ..... and that fact that even though the people were finally told to evacuate, and the means to do so actually were available to them, many chose not to because they said "they had been through hurricanes before with no problem", or "they didn't want to leave their homes". It was their option ....... they made the choice to stay ........ and they paid the price. They had plenty of time to leave, and they chose to stay. Simple .... unfortunate .... sad.

Also, the only "race" issues I noticed were that the areas most heavily damaged were poorer areas where many of the African Americans lived ........ and there were more African Americans affected because New Orleans has ALWAYS been a predominantly black community, with Caucasions being in a high minority. Not one, single, individual I spoke with ......... and I talked at length, and with equanimity, to blacks AND whites ........ mentioned anything to me about "race" being an issue with anything that happened before OR after the storm as regards prejudice. And government loans and assistance for rebuilding are being offered to all without equally with $.00 down and VERY low interest rates, yet many are hampered by the INSURANCE INDUSTRY ......... they do not have any recompense as yet from insurance for damages, and are unlikely to get any, and many residents of the poorer neighborhoods had no insurance at all, so rebuilding is not an option for them.

If more people had real knowledge of what actually happened with Katrina instead of relying on the news reports and biased (one way or the other) reports and "documentaries", I think the real picture of what happened would be much more clearly displayed. It was a tragic accident, from which much was learned. One of the things learned may, indeed, be that a city the size of New Orleans is always going to be at risk, no matter HOW good the levies were/are, when built on land that began as an underwater swamp .....and perhaps the whole idea of rebuilding should be reevaluated.

At any rate, I found the people there incredibly hospitable ........ extremely friendly ......... and entirely accepting of what Mother Nature threw at them. They live there ..... they knew it would happen "someday" ........ and they are now dealing with it in the best way they know how. It's unfortunate when people from out of the area, who have no knowledge of what actually occurred during those horrible days, make rash statements without knowing the whole picture. New Orleans had years of warnings and plenty of funds to fix the problems with levies etc. before, and the statements on this forum as to corruption with politics and the apportionment of funds all seem to be true, from what the residents told me. They've lived with it ....... they've seen it ..... they're carrying on. Maybe that's what the rest of us should do.

FWIW ............
 Cabbagetown

Joined: 5/10/2006
Msg: 30
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 3:21:20 PM
I agree it is a poverty issue but in the affected states in this case the poor are also predominently black.

I distinctly remember a train derailment in Mississauga many years ago. The cargo was chemical and toxic and the area around it had to be evacuated in the middle of the night. Mississauga, for those who don't know, is a middle class suburb of Toronto where people of all colours, cultures and religions live. But no poor folks.

The derailment occurred around 11:00pm. By 3:00am the evacuation was complete. No one was left behind, no one was taken someplace unsafe. Medical needs were attended to, animals taken to shelters, police guarded the empty homes to prevent looting.

I don't recall the numbers...less than a million folks but several thousand as I recall. No warning of imminent disaster; this was a freak accident and it was handled brilliantly.

As for Spike, I don't particularly care whether he's a racist or not. I've heard enough bias on one side and look forward to another view. I hope he delves into the elephant I mention in "where has all the real news gone" . For me the perspective needs to include analysis of why there are so many poor in America the good and why they are so poorly educated.

MG: Outside of pay tv, any airings you know of?
 Cabbagetown

Joined: 5/10/2006
Msg: 31
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 3:22:15 PM
One more thing...are there unbiased racists?
 BRASS

Joined: 12/8/2005
Msg: 32
view profile
History
Take Care of Yourself
Posted: 8/16/2006 3:31:16 PM
I'm a black man, originally from Brooklyn, New York. There are several reasons I left there thirty years ago. One of them was people like Spike Lee, people who always blame problems on racism. I've seen one of his movies, that was enough.Well I say you're entittled to your opinion, and my opinion is similar to that of rightwinggoodguy. Everybody has trials and tribulations throughout life. And usually when I'm faced with adversity I realize I could have something to avoid it. I keep an AWOL bag,survival gear, and weapons handy all ready to go. I don't care who you are or where you live you should always be prepared to live for two weeks without external assistance. I figure in a major natural disaster most roads will impassable, that's what motorcycles are for. How many of you out there know what natural hazards are in your local ? Where are the fault lines? Where are the flood plains ? People can Blame Pesident Bush all they want, they are the ones who chose to live below sea level. Yes I may sound like a cold, heartless SOB. But in my travels I've seen what happens when people let others provide for their survival. The people in NOLA voted their mayor in.
I lived in the Texas Panhandle for years, tornadoes were a factor of life there. Im never heard about complaints about the federal government there.
As for seeing Spike Lee's Docudrama. When Hell freezes over.
 TheLadyOfTheLake

Joined: 2/5/2005
Msg: 33
view profile
History
Take Care of Yourself
Posted: 8/16/2006 3:54:16 PM
Nicely said BRASS ......... thank you for saying ever so eloquently was I was trying to say ......... only you did it so much better!
 spade 63

Joined: 12/28/2005
Msg: 34
Take Care of Yourself
Posted: 8/16/2006 3:57:18 PM
I agree Brass, that people should rely on themselves as much as possible before trusting that quick aid from the govt. will whisk them away to safety, but what about the helpless, or elderly? Many people died uselessly because they could not get out.

Friends of mine that were swift water rescue here in Marion Co. Arkansas went to New Orleans to help. They saved many people from drowning and saw many more bodies floating in the water before federal bureaucrats prevented them from continuing their missions. They were ready to keep their boats in the water and save lives but they were told to stop because of the disorganization and red tape at higher levels. People died because the whole system from the top down was so f*ed up. Everyone being able and having motorcycles and guns is not the answer.

I went to New Orleans weeks afterward and helped friends who lived there fix their roof and clean their house. I've never seen such distruction in all my life. The victims of Katrina have a right to expect better from their govt. The govt. and many levels has admitted this! Spike Lee doesn't speak for all african americans, but extreme voices are necessary to offset some of the powers that don't like to hear them. He is a very smart man with views that challange power and address problems. I don't agree with everything he does, but I respect his opinions and am looking forward to the film. I'm sure that the doctors who were prevented from treating dying people in the dome will want to see it also. Should we let people die to avoid law suits? I don't think so, but some bean counters do aparently.

I dont' think that being critical of govt. response to Katrina is always a liberal adjenda to point fingers and pull the race card. Those acusations are necessary regardless of the politics, race, or class. It is a huge error that shouldn't be forgotten.
 myoid

Joined: 7/22/2006
Msg: 35
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 8:13:09 PM
reply to message 30

***......... they ALL lay the blame for poor post-Katrina performance on the CITY AND STATE GOVERNMENT, ...... most especially the Mayor and the Governor! ***

All? Really? I find it odd that just two months ago the same mayor won reelection.


****. And government loans and assistance for rebuilding are being offered to all without equally with $.00 down and VERY low interest rates, ***

This is absolute nonsense. There is no money to "all". There has not been a single grant or SBA loan given to anyone from the lower ninth ward. If by all you mean the affluent along St. Charles, the most exclusive street in the city, or in the French Quarter, the top business district in the city, areas that both stayed dry, perhaps you would be correct. But all as in Mid City, the Ninth Ward, East Orleans, Treme, Broad Street, even the Lakefront and Carrolton-- I don't think so. I believe "none" would be the correct answer.

60% of the population of the city has not returned. The ones you spoke with are obviously from the portions of the city that stayed dry. Hardly a representative sample.
 dmotz

Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 36
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 9:26:37 PM
Brass.
Very well said and dead on the point. People in N.O had plenty of time to leave and find high ground. The state of Louisana is responsible for the aftermath of Katrina. The city of N.O is responsible for the saftey of it`s citizens...If people on here would read my post about what THE CITY DECIDED to do with the funds allocated for the levees...they would not be bashing Bush and the Fed government! The left wing uber libs on here do not seem to realize that the Feg Gov is not your damn keeper! The money WAS ALLOCATED for the levee`s...the city just decided they would use the money elsewhere. So tell me Myoid.....when the money is given to build up the levee`s...and the state and city do not give the funds to the Corps of engineers...who`s damn fault is it?

"60% of the population of the city has not returned."
Thats right...and Nagin was voted in by the ones gone...absentee ballots! Hey I know...maybe he took a page from Bush...lied and stole the election....Maybe he lined his pockets with all the money sent to N.O...yea...thats it!
 toonsmith

Joined: 1/19/2005
Msg: 37
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 10:06:13 PM
Bush only sent the first troops in on Sept 3rd, 2006 - FOUR days after a major American city was pretty much completely flooded, and thousands trapped without food, water, or medical care in extreme heat - and with criminal elements taking control of the city.


FOUR days.

Bush was on vacation.

Scream about corrupt politicians in the big easy and try to deflect the blame all you want.

It doesn't change the fact of FOUR DAYS.

Bush could have done better and America knows it. No amount of putting the blame on so and so will change that.

FOUR DAYS.

Put a spin on that. ( I know you'll try.)
 dmotz

Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 38
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 10:16:52 PM
Common sense will do just fine Toon....no spin required.
So...tell me..what was Bush suppose to do? Airlift a guestimated 30,000 people in a day? How do you expect the military to get into a FLOODED city? I know...buy more boats! Sheesh.....you can feel bad for the people all you want...I do. But the fact remains...the state and the city are to blame for the deaths of all those folks...NOT BUSH! Hell...if a lib like clinton were in...or your new Idol Kerry....the same thing would have happened...nothing different. The city and state all to blame...look and realize.
 toonsmith

Joined: 1/19/2005
Msg: 39
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 10:24:25 PM
Hmm, the military are trained to prepare for any conditions. I don't think the seals wait for a sunny day? The order should have been given. You can't blame Bush for the levies, or the hurricane, but you can blame him for sitting on his ass...on vacation....for four days.

How do you defend that? (well, you drag in Clinton and Kerry and others...)

Four days. He could have done better.

Spin...hmm, lets throw in Clinton and Kerry and once again deflect to the corrupt democrats.

(weak spin)

Fact: Four days of sitting on his ass.

(probably re-reading My Pet Goat from that Kindergarten class on 9/11)


Toon
 myoid

Joined: 7/22/2006
Msg: 40
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 10:44:39 PM
***So tell me Myoid.....when the money is given to build up the levee`s...and the state and city do not give the funds to the Corps of engineers...who`s damn fault is it?***

My goodness rightwinggoodguy, you make this too easy. Let's see -- can this guy be serious -- he's telling me that the city did not give the money to the US Army Corps of Engineers? Did you really say that? That a city did not give money to the US Army Corps of Engineers? Uhm, US Army -- Commander in Chief uhm, that would be, uhm George Bush.

So your complaint is that the city of New Orleans did not give money to George Bush to maintain their levees? Are you serious?

OK, Ok, here goes -- it is not the responsibility of the City of New Orleans to give George Bush and the US Army Corps of Engineers the money to maintain the levees. That money was given to George Bush on April 15 -- do you do that in other parts of the country -- pay taxes to the Federal Government on April 15? or is that just a southern tradition? You are supposed to take the money we sent you on April 15 and use it to protect this nation -- that includes making sure the US Army, of which George Bush is the Commander in Chief, does its job in maintaining the levees that border the Mississippi River.


And by the way, when people ask me why I expect the US government to go to the rescue of citizens in situations such as happened in New Orleans, I always give them the same answer: Because that's who I send my life savings to every April 15. Give me my money back and I'll shut up.
 TheLadyOfTheLake

Joined: 2/5/2005
Msg: 41
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/16/2006 10:46:19 PM
To MYOID .......... (Who describes himself on his profile as ....... "Cynical DUDE Just Looking To RANT" ........... boy, THAT makes him appealing, doesn't i??)

How dare you presume to tell "me" to whom I spoke, and what their experiences were. One of the people I mentioned in my prior post was a bellboy at my hotel ......... he had lost his home completely, and, though he was able to get himself and his family out safely, he had no worldly possessions left at all. And yes, he was an African American. Did he blame our President or the world at large for his misfortune?? HELL no ...... he blamed "Mother Nature", and said that with his home being located where it was, right next to the levee, it was going to have had to happen sooner or later. He had been born in that house, and his grandparents had built it, and losing it, as well of all of his memories, was a very sad thing for him. He also told me there were GOVERNMENT funds waiting and available to him should he decide to rebuild, HOWEVER, they were not certain that doing so would be prudent because of the location of their property and the possibility of the same thing happening again in another hurricane. The whole area is under study/review to see if rebuilding is feasible what with the clean up necessary from the pollution as it is now, and the soils removal and fill that would need to be brought in.

And you are right .......... a couple of the nicer streets and the French Quarter did stay dryer ..... because most of the damages that happened there occurred due to the high winds and not flooding. HOWEVER, that's also because of the fact that they're in a higher part of the city ....... on higher land ....... and they didn't NEED the monies you erroneously say were given them to rebuild because they didn't HAVE to rebuild anything! There was very little serious damage in those areas of higher elevation ....... which happen to be located in the oldest part of the city, where it was founded because of the topography ....... they canNOT flood. So get your facts straight before you post .........

It's always amazing to me how easily some people choose to ignore hard facts and first hand information, and would rather believe the political and other disinformation out there just to bend it to their own views or to incite disagreements. I believe I stated in my prior post that I had only seen what the "news" had presented to us before my visit .......... from both sides of the political arena, and both equally biased. I am an "Independent" voter .... I vote for the best person, regardless of political affiliations, so I am defending nobody except my perspectve and point of view, and the integrity, courage and honesty of the people to whom I spoke, and their stories. My statements are based on first hand information .......... yours seem to be based totally on assumptions ...... and bad ones at that.

You say you live in Alabama ...... that's not SO FAR AWAY ...... why don't you visit the city of N.O., talk to some of the people who live there and love their city as "I" did, and then see if your story remains the same. I think you will find it distinctly different than what you are trying to portray here.


BTW, if you care so much about the suffering of mankind and the mismanagement of the proceedings down there, .......... you live close. Why don't you go and try to help them instead of sitting home and vociferating on issues you clearly do not understand.
 toonsmith

Joined: 1/19/2005
Msg: 42
view profile
History
Spike Lee for President
Posted: 8/16/2006 11:25:18 PM
Hmm, 4 hours of Spike Lee telling white people to "Do the Right Thing"?

Cool. Can't wait.

You know it's gonna get a lot of attention. Spike's on a roll. His last film with Denzel was his biggest most profitable hit. Hollywood loves a moneymaker, regardless of the politics.

I hope he makes "The Michael Jackson Story" next.

(When The Nose Broke)




Spike Lee for President.

Toon
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 43
view profile
History
Spike Lee for President
Posted: 8/17/2006 6:50:25 AM
So...tell me..what was Bush suppose to do? Airlift a guestimated 30,000 people in a day? How do you expect the military to get into a FLOODED city?


The immediate problem wasn't getting people out....it was getting aid and structure IN.

The military does have these wonderful things called helo's , and boats/amphibious vehicles. They also have water and MRE's...and doctors....and have a lot of experience setting things up in rather hostile areas of the world. In fact, that's exactly what WAS done....

...except far too late, in the richest most powerful country that the world has ever seen - while the people of New Orleans suffered, and the entire world watched in shock and anger.

When someone needs help, you help them - and let the excuses/reasons for their plight wait until after they are cared for. Once that last person is assisted....talk all you want. That's the proper time for it.

We cut slack for politicians who enter into a badly planned war, because of things happening afterwards that "they didn't expect". Couldn't get Osama ? "Well, sometimes plans don't work out..." When 9/11 happened, it was " no one could have foreseen that type of attack. "

When a poor person in New Orleans get's trapped in a flooded city, it's his fault - and he's accused of causing his own misfortune. Then it's his local governments fault, after that same government warned the President in writing that the situation was going to be out of control. On top of that, a significant amount of the state's National Guard resources were in....Iraq. That would have been one of the primary resources local governments could have used to assist in rescue operations - except they didn't have them.


National Guard Official Admits Iraq Deployment Affected Katrina Response
Scores of members of the Mississippi National Guard stationed in Iraq have been denied 15-day leaves in order to help their displaced families. The commanders told them that there were too few U.S. troops in Iraq to spare them. 40 percent of Mississippi's National Guard force and 35 percent of Louisiana's is in Iraq. Meanwhile, for the first time, a high-ranking National Guard official has admitted that the Guard's response to the hurricane was hindered by the high number of troops in Iraq. Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, told CNN that "arguably" a day or so of response time was lost due to the absence of the Guard troops in Iraq. He said, "Had that brigade been at home and not in Iraq, their expertise and capabilities could have been brought to bear."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/12/1426204


That's probably their fault too, right ?

In the type of conditions seen immediately after Katrina, a twenty four hour delay means people start to die.

The message of the Good Samaritan (as this Bible reading President is surely familiar with) is not what will happen if I assist this person in need. It's what will happen if I don't.

What next ? A person that walks into a "bad neighborhood" is left there, while police respond to other more "important" crimes ? Do firemen respond to the people living in concrete buildings first, because those people in buildings made of wood "asked for it" ?

People all across America saw what was going on, and some were heros worthy of that title. They jumped in their trucks, and took whatever they could to help out. A guy from Toronto drove down, and used his kayak to rescue people for God's sake.

Individuals showed far more dedication, resourcefulness, and speed than the people in charge did. That's inexcusable.

People worldwide, including military forces, rushed whatever they could to the scene. Canadian navy vessels took off at full speed, and went through a storm at sea to get there asap.

The only people sitting there looking at the TV screen and doing nothing were your nation's leaders. They were too busy trying to think of excuses to focus on their primary duty - saving the lives of citizens in great need.

As Neil Young sings in his recent work :


What if Al Qaeda blew up the levees,
Would New Orleans have been safer that way,
Sheltered by our government’s protection,
Or was someone just not home that day?

'Let’s Impeach the President' - Neil Young



Almost four years to the day after 9/11, after countless speeches talking about how America was a safer place thanks to the government, and after the creation of an entire department of "Homeland Security" - the entire world saw how empty that concept was.

Had a major terrorist attack left that many people totally stranded, with ZERO warning ( as opposed to the gradual build up of a tropical storm) - what would have been the result ?

That's the essential question, and both answers point directly at the White House.

1) They would have responded properly, and immediately. If so , why did they fail in New Orleans ?

2) They would have been as powerless as they were in late 2005. If so, why ? Certainly one can hoist these politicians on their same petard, and ask them why they were un-prepared to assist people in dire need in a major American city.

That's why you see this blame being shifted to the shoulders of the poor people...because there are no good answers to either of those questions.
 myoid

Joined: 7/22/2006
Msg: 44
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/17/2006 7:37:22 AM
***BTW, if you care so much about the suffering of mankind and the mismanagement of the proceedings down there, .......... you live close. Why don't you go and try to help them instead of sitting home and vociferating on issues you clearly do not understand. ***

Hello Rememberme

My sister still lives in the city so I go there every weekend.
Let's see how well you know the city:

Where is Treme?
Where does St. Charles become Carrolton?
Where did Lee Oswald live in the summer of 63
Where was the original Ruth's Chris Steakhouse
On what street was the stadium where the New Orleans Saints played their first game?

And you want to tell me about New Orleans?

bonus question: Where is the Sno-wizard headquarters, maker of the snowball machine that is omnipresent in the deep south?

As for volunteer work -- it is past the time for that. The initial response was wonderful, but we're into the end game. My point is, without massive federal relief, the type we give to foreign nations when they need help, we are going to lose one of the great cities of the world, the city that lies at the mouth of the greatest river of commerce the world has ever known. I am amazed that my countrymen, so quick to jump to the rescue of Korea, Iraq, Kuwait, Turkey, Thailand -- when it is their own, they have turned their backs.
 pinebreeze

Joined: 2/6/2006
Msg: 45
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/17/2006 8:23:53 AM
Oh , good grief....(Holding the back of his hand on his forhead in a fainting gesture), here we go again with a bunch of bleeding hearts wallowing in their "white guilt'".

RememberMe and Brass have it pegged exactly right. What the hell is this nonesense that the federal govt. (george bush) is supposed to have some kind of crystal ball.... and then the rescoruces to fix one of the worst hurricane disasters to hit this country in its history in 24 hours!!!!!

I don't give a damn about being politically correct here! I watched all the footage of the immediate aftermath of katrina. I felt compassion and empathy for the obvious suffering that was going on down there. But, at the same time, I will honestly have to say... I felt a sense of disgust at the what I saw and heard too. Big fat 3rd generation welfare mothers with 3 or 4 little kids hanging off of them screaming with rage into the camera for the system to get down there and fix this! did I hear anyone asking? Hell no. Just indignant rage... screaming for the automatic assistance that they have been programmed to recieve all their lives.

Of course, I don't want these people to suffer. I don't wish them Ill. But I was disgusted. What katrina actually did was temporarily rip the roof off our welfare system and expose the dirty underbelly. Obviously new orleans was/is one of the more concentrated dens of the generaltional welfare culture. This is socialism at its finest folks! Giving them fresh fish every day instead of teaching them how to fish.

Enough of that: Just like 9-11, No disaster plans or rescources can be expected to cover completely such unfamathable catastrophes. NONE! Was there some incompetency and mistakes made? Of course. But to condemn an entire govt. and its rescources like I am hearing is preposterous! Preposterous!

Lets face it. You Bush bashers are so pathologically focused on him that you have lost your abilities to see anything else! In the world of psychology, thats called co'dependency.,.. its a disorder!
 dmotz

Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 46
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/17/2006 8:55:47 AM
Pinebreeze....
Damn son...great post!
There is NO WAY any government can be ready for a hurricane of this magnitude in 24 hours...or 24 days! MG is a very smart man and I agree with alot of the guys posts...but he is way off on this one.
Yea..we all feel sorry for the people...black or white....rich or poor. I lay all the blame on the city of N.O and the state of Louisana. If they had proper planning in place..there would have been plenty of food and water...why, after being warned for 30 years about the effects of a massive hurricane...did they not prepare? The answer is simple...they blew it off...they did not think it would happen to them..The City and state could have had measures in place, MRE`S...water....but no...they want to blame the Bush admin for everything. The Mayor is guilty of neglect...as is the state ....
 toonsmith

Joined: 1/19/2005
Msg: 47
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/17/2006 9:45:05 AM
But, at the same time, I will honestly have to say... I felt a sense of disgust at the what I saw and heard too. Big fat 3rd generation welfare mothers with 3 or 4 little kids hanging off of them screaming with rage into the camera for the system to get down there and fix this!


Wow, you watched people in trouble and you felt disgusted as to who they were? That has to be the most racist disgusting comment I've ever seen posted on POF. Who cares who they were? They needed to be rescued.

Not to mention you are making HUGE assumptions on who THEY are based on the color of their skin and how many kids they have with them? How can you tell what the people on TV do for a living? They could have been office workers, fast food workers, etc, Somehow you saw fat black welfare con artists? Are you psychic?

My God, Man. Disgusting.

It's this type of thinking that had Bush sitting on his hands for four days. When you represent the people, you represent ALL the people. Not just rich white people.

Please answer me this, Rightwinggoodguy. What should have Bush have done during those four days? You think maybe he should have cut his vacation short and possibly paid more attention? Don't you think it's a bit unfeeling for the guy to ignore sending in help to Americans in need?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the public knows about the corruption. You've pointed that out. But what do you think Bush SHOULD have done during those four days? I want to hear you defend your boy with no spin. I won't pick on ya or call you names. (honest) Just come up with a defense on why and what he didn't do. That's all I wanna know.

I don't want a history of Clinton or Kerry (I never really liked them anyway) I don't want more of blame THOSE guys. I want to know about what you think about your boy Bushie doing nothing for that period of four days (that is a long time for a lot of people in trouble) I think it would be interesting.

Toon
 dmotz

Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 48
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/17/2006 9:58:42 AM
I understand that in a flooded city...getting help to EVERYONE is impossible...My one complaint...honestly...there should have been some sort of attempt to get food and water to the people in the dome. But the question is how?
You seem to think Bush was just sitting in Crawford and ignoring the situation...I will bet he was not. I guess he just should have flown back to Washington and made a few phone calls?
He stayed in Texas to be able to get into the flood zones sooner when it was SAFE to do so.
You tell me Toon....
Why after 30 years of warnings...why after being told the Levees would not hold up against a massive Hurricane...why did the state of Louisana do nothing? Tell me why the city of New Orleans not have a plan in place for such an event? Why was there no food and water?
I will tell you why....because the city neglected the people...If proper planning had been in place...thousands of lives would have been saved. Blaming Bush for the aftermath is off the mark.
If people want to blame the government...we need to look at ALL the past admins and point the finger. Lets go back 30 years...lets see who we can blame....Carter....Reagan...Bush Sr....Clinton...and baby Bush....Why didnt they fix the levee problem? If we follow this logic...the Government is responsible for every levee in the nation...when one breaks...blame the current admin....
 TheLadyOfTheLake

Joined: 2/5/2005
Msg: 49
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/17/2006 10:02:25 AM
Poor Myoid ..........

You SERIOUSLY think that it's important to this discussion to know where a SnoWizard factory or Ruth's steak house is???? I never said I was an expert at New Orleans landmarks ............ when you get boxed in a corner, as some others on this thread have so nicely done to you, you find a need to change topics, eh? I think you're out of your league You're beating a very dead horse.

As for your *not* volunteering because you say the time is "over" for that? Would you PLEASE tell that to my two nephews, and most of their friends, who just got back from a two week stay in New Orleans, flying their by spending their OWN money, and HELPING PEOPLE TO REBUILD as volunteers? Gee ...... they used their vacation time to actually HELP there, instead of going somewhere else for some R&R ..... not much fun I'm sure, and an expensive trip for them, but they got a whole lot of "psychic income".

Getting facts straight doesn't seem to be your strong suit ........ if your sister lives there, you should KNOW what REALLY happened. Either ...........1) You don't listen ........... 2) Your sister doesn't observe ............ 3) You're just trying to evoke hard feelings from the good people on this site, ....... or ............. 4) ALL OF THE ABOVE. My guess is the answer is #4!!
 toonsmith

Joined: 1/19/2005
Msg: 50
view profile
History
Spike Lee's a Biased Racist
Posted: 8/17/2006 10:16:09 AM
What Bush SHOULD have done as the most powerful man on the globe, is to jump on that phone and make sure that all helicopters, national guard, (what was left of them other than in Iraq) and offered help from all nations, be swiftly directed to go where help is needed.

Bush is the commander in chief. The head honcho. He should have done this on Day 1, not Day 2 or 3 or 4 and then try to save his image being photographed riding around in a truck in circles.

Do I pin all the blame on him. No. But it's a fact that if he had acted sooner in sending federal help, many people would not have suffered or died. That is a fact and one that Spike Lee will certainly show in his documentary. People died who shouldn't have.

They didn't need to die. For those screaming and putting down poor black people for needing help in this crisis, well, looks like they show their true uncompassionate racist hearts. (but not you, Rightwing, you're okay.)

:)


Toon
Page 2 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
 
Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Spike Lee's documentary - "When The Levees Broke"