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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 6:49:04 PM |
Wow, will someone please tell me how an Islamic fundamentalist or religious extemist is a facist?
One party dictatorship
To belong, you must be Muslim.
Forceable suppresion of opposition.
I know plenty of Christians who will vouch for this. They left the Middle East, and are now my neighbors.
Belliegerent nationalism
You must be Muslim. The Ummah is the nation. It is Dar al Islam: The world of Islam. If you are not there, you are in Dar al Harb; the world of war.
Racism.
You must speak Arabic to understand Islam. You must be Arab to advance. If your Islam is not Arab, it is not Islam.
Propaganda.
All truth descends from the Prophet. Science and facts prove nothing unless the Prophet agrees. Disputing any written interpretation of the Muslim Heirarchy is forbidden.
These are a few of the things I have learned about "Radical Islam," that compare well to fascism. Can any of those who point to Bush as a fascist show such a fanatical nationalism, and forcible suppression. I doubt you can. It would be oxymoronic to try because your communication would be suppressed.
My impression is guided by www.jihadwatch.org, some personal contacts, and a few anecdotal encounters. My specifics may vary from member to member, and from sect to sect, but the ideology appears to be one of not forgiving, but placing blame and inflicting punishment. Negotiations are almost always futile unless you show insurmountable strength. Then they will retreat and re-arm.
I don't require anyone to take my word, but ask that they research and evaluate it on their own. Robert Spencer is a colloquial source, but John Quincy Adams and Andre Servier would provide a more historical view. Islamic Regimes aren't anything new. 666 years ago, the last Muslim power was forcibly removed from the European continent, in 1340. Do the math. Look it up. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 7:02:38 PM | 666 years ago, the last Muslim power was forcibly removed from the European continent, in 1340. Do the math. Look it up.
Interesting, they also tried very hard to eleminate Jews, VERY hard. I wonder how Jews survived the Christian Spanish Inquisition, the Christian Pogroms, ....the Christian attempts at genocide?
Speaking of Muslims..........
Yes, let's "do the math", let's look at history, and how the Jews first came back to Palestine, and how they were treated for 600 years by a Muslim empire.........
Compare how they were treated by the Christians of Europe during the WHOLE 600 years, and the issue of peaceful existence we've seen since the duplicity of the UK, and later the US, gave us the insanity we have now.
Facsism is specifically Corporate Authoritarianism.
Indeed.
- Foundation for the Advancement of Sephardic Studies and Culture
(That's Jews BTW)
OTTOMAN EMPIRE
OSMAN GAZI (Born) 1258 - (Deceased) 1326 CE
Osman Gazi was the youngest of three sons born to Ertugrul Gazi, he prepared the basis for an Empire of which the world trembled.
ORHAN GAZI (Born) 1281 - (Deceased) 1360 CE
After the conquest of Bursa, in 1326 Orhan Gazi issued a Royal Decree for the building of a synagogue, the "Etz Ha Hayim" synagogue which was in service until 50 years ago. The oppressed Jewish community, thanks to Orhan Gazi could breathe again. When Bursa was declared the capital, Jewish tradesmen were invited to Bursa and thanks to the climate of freedom, Jews came even from Arabia.
MURAD I. HUDAVENDIGAR (Born) 1326 - (Deceased) 1389 CE
Murad I. settled the Jews who fled Hungary in Thrace and Anatolia. When the Ottomans conquered Edirne, the capital was transferred from Bursa to Edirne. The Jewish community of Edirne spoke only Greek. Therefore Jews from Bursa were invited to Edirne to teach Turkish to their kinsman. Learning of the tolerance and liberty the Jewish people enjoyed under the Ottoman crescent, the oppressed Jews from the Balkans came to Edirne.
SULTAN YILDIRIM BAYEZID (Born) 1360 - (Deceased) 1403 CE
In 1394 Sultan Yildirim Bayezid invited the French Jews who were molested by King Charles VI, to the Ottoman Empire. They were settled in Edirne and the Balkans. The French Kings had the habit of inviting the Jews to establish commerce and borrowing money from them. However often, when payment was due, they expelled them; only to reinvite them when they nedded further financing.
CELEBI SULTAN MEHMED I (Born) 1389 - (Deceased) 1421 CE
His reign is marked by two important events: The conquest of Izmir and the Seyh Bedreddin revolution; there was a small Jewish community in Manisa that grew after the Ottoman conquest. The Seyh Bedreddin revolution: Aman called Seyh Bedreddin with a Jew, Samuel from Manisa, known as Torlak Kemal, organized a revolt. Torlak Kemal at the head of 3000 dervishes started spreading communist ideas saying that except wives everything belonged to the people. The movement started from Izmir and spread to Thrace. Saruhan Bey fought against him and was beaten. Ali Bey took ovet and had no success. Prince Murad at the head of a new army brought victory and consequently Seyh Bedreddin and Torlak Kemal were executed.
SULTAN MURAD II (Born) 1402 - (Deceased) 1451 CE
In 1421 he accepted to Adrianople and Salonica the German Jews who fled persecutions. In 1444 Sultan Murad abdicated in favour of his son Mehmed II, however, on account of war, upon the latters's request, he came back to power and resumed his reign in 1446. During the reign of Murad II, Ishak Pasa was appointed as chief doctor of the palace and a firman was issued in his family's favour exempting them from all taxes. The Jewish doctor Yakup also served in the palace.
FATIH SULTAN MEHMED (Born) 1429 - (Deceased) 1481 CE
MEHMED II, THE CONQUEROR (FATIH) Reigned from 1444 to 1446 until his father took over on account of war. He came again to throne in 1451. He conquered Constantinople in 1453. The oppressed Jews were relieved to see him occupy the city. He allowed Jews from today's Greek Islands and Crete to settle in Istanbul. Fatih's declaration is as follows: "Listen sons of the Hebrew who live in my country...May all of you who desire come to Constantinople and may the rest of your people find here a shelter". The Bavarian King Ludwig the III, under the influence of the Italian Monk Jean de Capistrano expelled the Jews out and forced them to settle on the banks of the Danube River, Capistrano helped John Hunyadi in 1456 when the Ottomans besieged Belgrade. In 1410 Jean Huss was excommunicated and burned on order of the pope Alexander the V. The pope Nicholas the V, summoned Jean de Capistrano to go to Slovakia and fight the followers of Jean Huss. Of course Capistrano did not forget the Jews and as a result, by order of the Sultan, a regiment called "The sons of Moses" was formed. Since Capistrano also prepared a crusade against the Ottomans, the same regiment participated in the war which ensued. The doctors Isak Pasa Galeon and Ribbi Sonsino were also appointed to that regiment. Before being killed, Ribbi Sonsino chopped away the head of Jean de Capistrano and the church declared the latter a saint. After the war Mehmed II (Fatih) invited the Ashkenazi Jews of Transylvania and Slovakia to the Ottoman Empire. The synagogues Ahrida, Karaferya, Yanbol and Cuhadji which were damaged due to a fire have been repaired on Fatih's order. According to a votive foundation document dated 1451-1481, the doctors Moses Hamon, Isak Pas a Galeon, Hekim Yakup, Ephraim Sandji and Hekim Abraham were appointed as palace doctors.
SULTAN II BAYEZID (Born) 1447 - (Deceased) 1512 CE
During the years 1490 to 1497 Sultan Bayezid II accepted the exiled Jews from Italy, Spain and Portugal. In 1492 Kemal Reis and his fleet were sent to Cadiz to take the Jews in charge. During the reign of Bayezid II, the king and queen of Spain, Ferdinand and Isabella, signed an edict of expulsion for the Jews. The edict was issued under the pressure of the church on the 31st of March 1492 and the Jews had to leave the country until the 2nd of August 1492. The last lot of Jews gathered in the port of Cadiz faced a dilemma: Those who left port were attacked by the pirates, those who went on land were burned at the stake by the inquisition. About a thousand people waited in anguish. At the last minute arrived a small fleet manned by the Turkish admiral Kemal Reis who took the refugees under his protection. Thus organizing a convoy of Jewish immigrants towards the Ottoman empire. Of the approximately 600,000 Spanish Jews, half were baptized, 100,000 went to Portugal, some went to the Netherlands, Italy, North Africa and the New World. But, the biggest lot reached the Ottoman Empire, numbering about 150,000 people. When the Jews who went to Portugal were exiled too in 1497, a big majority of them found refuge in the Ottoman Empire. Whereas the migration of forcibly converted Jews to Ottoman lands lasted several decades. In 1501 he accepted the Jews who fled from France. At a later period, the Jews of Spanish and Portuguese origin who went to Brazil were tracked by the inquisition who persecuted and compelled them to emigrate to New Amsterdam, today's New York. The immigrants met in the Ottoman Empire about 50,000 Romaniot, Karaite and Ashkenazi Jews. The Jews which may have entered Anatolia following the collapse of the Khazars; those who may have followed Alp Arslan after his entry to Anatolia and the communities which existed in the south-east since ancient times are not part of the estimated figures.
YAVUZ SULTAN SELIM (Born) 1470 - (Deceased) 1520 CE
By conquering Egypt, he had put an end to the "Law of no return" issued by the Roman Senate in the year 60 AD. The expulsion process was completed in the year 120. Meaning it took 60 years from Titus to Hadrian. Jews could travel freely for 400 years until the British conquered Palestine in 1917 and restricted again the entry of Jews into Palestine. The "Law of no return" comprised an order of throwing overboard all Jews found on a ship sailing for the Holy Land. The reason for the law of expulsion, was that the Jews were undermining the "Pax Romana" as they were in constant rebellion. The Roman emperors considering themselves gods, wanted to establish their statues in the Temple and the Jews fought them. All occupiers of the land of Israel applied the law of no return. Meaning the Romans, the Byzantines, the Mameluks, the Arabs who came from the south, the crusaders, and the British in 1917. It is unfortunate to say that this caused the death of 6 million Jews during the Holocaust. At that time the palace doctors were Joseph Hamon and his son Moses Hamon, Joseph Hamon was killed during the conquest of Palestine in 1516. Sultan Selim had borrowed money from a Jewish banker for his Egyptian campaign, but the banker passed away before payment was due and his minister of finance reported the death to the Sultan adding that there was no need for payment. The Sultan wrote the following phrase under the report: "May the dead rest in peace, his orphans live in good health, his belongings prosper and curse upon the intriguer." Yavuz Sultan Selim who abrogated the Roman edict of no return has to be honored as the Sultan who paved the way for today's Israel. KANUNI SULTAN SULEYMAN (Born) 1495 - (Deceased) 1566 CE
(SOLIMAN THE MAGNIFICENT) Built the city walls of Jerusalem and ordered the settling of thousands of Jews on the shores of Lake Kinnereth in Tiberias and the north of Jerusalem. His reign is marked as the most powerful and prosperous period of the Ottomans. During the reign of Soliman The Magnificent, Dona Gracia and Joseph Nassi, came to Turkey. Thanks to his connections and agents in Europe, Nassi was appointed as political advisor to the Sultan. The pope Paul IV, wanted to hand over the Jews of Ancona to the inquisition but the timely opposition of the Sultan saved the Jews. Moses Hamon, Avram Levi Migas, Tam Ben david Yahya and his sons Gedalya Yahya and Joseph Yahya, Yehuda de Kugers, Moiz Butaril and doctor Menashe, served as palace physicians. During the war against Iran Gedalya Yahya, and during the war for the conquest of the island of Rhodes, Dr. Menashe was killed.
SULTAN SELIM II (Born) 1524 - (Deceased) 1574 CE
After the conquest of Cyprus he established 500 Jewish families on the Island and appointed Joseph Nassi as duke of Naxos. The German King Maximilian II asked Nassi to interfere in favour of Alexander Lapusneanu who was in disgrace. In 1569 Nassi had a treaty signed between Charles 9, of France and Selim II. In 1574, the palace doctor Solomon Nathan Eskenazi was sent to Venice as ambassador. The treaty between the Ottomans and Spain being under discussion, the Spaniards tried to btibe Eskenazi. Eskenazi gave them a lession in honesty and the treaty was signed in favour of Turkey.
SULTAN MURAD III (Born) 1546 - (Deceased) 1595 CE
During the reign of Sultan Murad III, the son of Joseph Amon (killed during the campaign for the conquest of Egypt) Izak Amon was appointed adviser to the divan. Doctor Domenico Yerushalmi and doctor Eliezer Iskenderi were appointed to the palace. In the official list of Jewish doctors 40 names are mentioned.
SULTAN MEHMED III (Born) 1566 - (Deceased) 1603 CE
During the reign of Sultan Mehmed III, Gabriel Buonaventura was appointed ambassador and established contacts with Spain. Solomon Eskenazi was still in office. The doctors Benveniste and Moshe Korina were in palace service and in 1597 Solomon Abenyaes (Marrano Name: Alvaro Mendez) prepared a treaty with England against king Philip of Spain.
SULTAN AHMED I (Born) 1590 - (Deceased) 1617 CE
Sultan Ahmed I, ordered to build the Mosque that bears his name which is famous for its blue tiles, the 4 elephantine columns on which rests the dome and its six minarets. At that time, small pox was a deadly sickness, and it so happened that the Sultan caught it. The treatment applied by the palace doctors giving no result, the widow of Solomon Eskenazi was called and she saved the Sultan. The palace doctors of the time were Solomon Eskenazi Avraham Levi Migas, and Naftali Ben Mansur. Upon the death of Solomon Eskenazi his widow Buha Eskenazi replaced him.
SULTAN MUSTAFA I (Born) 1592 - (Deceased) 1639 CE
At the beginning of the 17th century had started the decline of the Empire. This was also to be said for the Jewish community. No more doctors were at the palace and the foreign affairs were manned by other elements. The Jews had entered a closed shell, they stayed in their synagogues.
SULTAN OSMAN II (Born) 1604 - (Deceased) 1622 CE
The situation was no better and decline continued. The Jews concentrated on religion and stayed in their synagogues, as if they were mourning Sultan Osman.
SULTAN MURAD IV (Born) 1612 - (Deceased) 1640 CE
Sultan Murad is known for prohibiting to the people what he daily did. During his reign the Jewish community with great timidity tried to get out of its shell. We see again doctors in palace service as Moiz Amaradji and Yakup Abbasoglu Musa. Some historians say that Rabbi Yehuda Kovo from Salonica came to Constantinople to pay taxes and that he was executed. The story of Rabbi Kovo is quite different: At that time, the fabric for uniforms of the army was manufactured by the weavers of Salonica who worked at home and sold to the army great quantities of fabric. The army refused the fabrics that were below standards. All of Salonica's Jews faced the danger of bankruptcy. That is how Rabbi Kovo was involved just to help the people and he was accused of delivering faulty material to the army. That caused his execution. Due to the crisis that broke, good many families from Salonica moved to Izmir which at that time had a small Jewish community.
SULTAN IBRAHIM (Born) 1616 - (Deceased) 1648 CE
During the reign of Sultan Ibrahim the Jewish community is still timid. Doctor Moshe Raphael Abravanel is appointed to the palace and he changes his name to Hayati Zade.
SULTAN MEHMED IV (Born) 1641 - (Deceased) 1693 CE
During the reign of Sultan Mehmed IV, on the demand of King Charles August of Sweden a treaty is signed against Russia and Moses Beberi is appointed ambassador to Sweden, after his death in 1674 his son Yehuda is appointed ambassador. In 1648-1658 two major events occured: The first one is a revolution in Poland. A petty aristocrat by the name of Bogdan Chmielnitzki kills the land owners, the priest and the Jews. 300 communities disappear 150,000 jews are killed, money is gathered all over Europe and a slave market starts in Crimea. Jews are exported like cattle. With the acceptance of Mehmet IV, Jews are settled on the banks of the Danube in Morea, Kavala, Istanbul and Salonica. The second event happens in 1666. Rabbi Sabetay Sevi declares himself messiah and causes turmoil. The sultan calls him to the palace, his head is in danger. Doctor Abravanel (Hayati Zade) asks for his pardon. Sabetay Sevi changes his name to Mehmet Efendi, he is now a Moslem. From Warsaw to Cairo thousands follow his example.
SULTAN SULEYMAN II (Born) 1642 - (Deceased) 1691 CE
During the reign of Soliman II the doctors Hayati Zade (Abravanel) and doctor Levi are of service at the palace. All is calm for the Jewish community.
SULTAN AHMED II (Born) 1643 - (Deceased) 1695 CE
During the reign of Sultan Ahmed II, doctor Hayati Zade in disgrace is thrown in jail at Yedikule prison where he dies. Doctor Levi on duty; concerning the Jewish community, nothing to record.
SULTAN MUSTAFA II (Born) 1664 - (Deceased) 1704 CE
Belgrade is re-conquered in 1690 and Jews return to the city. Doctor Nuh efendi, Doctor Levi, Doctor Tobias Cohen and Doctor Israel Koenigland are appointed palace doctors.
SULTAN AHMED III (Born) 1673 - (Deceased) 1763 CE
Chief doctor Daniel Fonseka obtains support from Sweden against Russia, (1709 Poltava) and the Pasarovtcha treaty signed with Austria helped a lot of Jews in Vienna. Palace doctors Daniel Fonseca and Tobias Cohen are in office.
SULTAN MAHMUD I (Born) 1696 - (Deceased) 1754 CE
Under the reign of Mahmut I, the tteaty of Belgtade was signed (September 18th, 1739). This gave rights to the Ottoman Jews. Their situation was so good that Austrian Jews applied for Ottoman citizenship. Under the influence of the church, Marie Therese did her best to pressure the Jews. Finally the Jews asked the palace banker Yehuda Baruh to explain the situation to the Sultan. The Sultan gave an ultimatum saying that he was taking back his subjects to Turkey and the Austria should do likewise. The queen said that there was a misunderstanding and the case was closed. The doctors Isaac Tchelebi and hekim Joseph were appointed at the palace.
SULTAN OSMAN III (Born) 1699 - (Deceased) 1757 CE Under the Sultan Osman III, the Jews keep a low profile, though the Doctors Isaac Tchelebi and Doctor Joseph are in service at the palace. On the 6th of July 1756 a fire burns down 8000 houses.
SULTAN MUSTAFA III (Born) 1717 - (Deceased) 1774 CE
Doctor Isak Tchelebi and Doctor Joseph are still in office, stagnation continues.
SULTAN ABDULHAMID I (Born) 1725 - (Deceased) 1789 CE
Doctor Joseph and Doctor Cohen from Salonica were in office at the palace. The empire fights the 1775 war against Iran, in 1787 the German war and the Crimean situation gives way to awakening, things start moving in the community.
SULTAN SELIM III (Born) 1761 - (Deceased) 1808 CE
Sultan Selim II, had a passion for music, good many composers of Turkish classical music composed for him. He took music lessions from Isaac Fresco Romano. As for the palace, Doctor Kohen from Salonica was in office. Kabakci Mustafa instigated a revolt in the course of which the Sultan was murdered.
SULTAN MUSTAFA IV (Born) 1779 - (Deceased) 1808 CE
In 1807 the English fleet attacks Istanbul, the people are mobilised, Napoleon wants the Sultan on his side. In the course of the uheaval Mahmud II becomes Sultan.
SULTAN MAHMUD II (Born) 1785 - (Deceased) 1839 CE
During the reign of Sultan Mahmud two bad situations occurred: The Greek Patriarch who was too close to a Greek organization working against Turkey was condemned to death, and the prime minister Benderli Ali Pasa personally assisted to the execution which took place at the gate of the Patriarchate. Among the onlookers three Jews were spotted and ordered by Benderli Ali Pasa to drag the body and throw it to the sea. When the news reached Athens, the rumour was that the Jews had murdered Gregorius. As a result, 5000 Jews were murdered in Morea and all the Jewish passengers of a Greek ship were thrown overboard. As for the second catastrophe, Mahmud II, having suppressed the janissaries at the same period and the disgrace of the protector of the Jewish bankers Halet Efendi, on the one hand; the fact that the bankers had given money (through pressure) to the janissaries and due to the denunciation to the Sultan by their competitor the Armenian banker Artin Kazaz, the Jewish banker Izak Adjiman, Tchelebi Bohor Carmoma and Yehezekiel Gabay were executed. During the reign of Mahmut II Doctor Uziel and Doctor Admiral Elias Pasha Cohen were of service at the palace. The fez was decreed in 1820 by Sultan Mahmoud II as a symbol of a multi-cultural Ottoman Empire. "Henceforth," the Sultan announced, "I recognize Muslims only in the mosque, Christians only in the church, Jews only in the synagogue. Outside these places of worship, I desire every individual to enjoy the same political rights and my fatherly protection."
SULTAN ABDULMECID (Born) 1823 - (Deceased) 1861 CE
The declaration of equality for all Ottoman subjects is tarnished by blood libel accusations in Syria and Rhodes. Europe pressures Mohammed Ali out of Syria and Palestine thus restarting immigration to Palestine. At the university we see Jewish Professors as Dr. Spitzer and Isaac Shalom. In 1857 the same Doctor Spitzer is appointed political representative in Naples and slowly but surely the Jews start again serving the country as before...
SULTAN ABDULAZIZ (Born) 1830 - (Deceased) 1876 CE
With his firman dated April 5th, 1870, the Sultan Abdul Aziz allocated the "Alliance Israelite Universelle" 2600 dunams of land east of Jaffa for the establishment of a school of agriculture and also granted permission for importing all kinds of tools and machinery free of taxes and customs. As Ben Gouriion, said: "I doubt that the Israeli dream would have been realized if the farm school of Mikveh Israel had not existed." Among Jews that served during the reign of Sultan Aziz: The palace intendent Baruh Cohen, Dr. Mordohay Levi in different cities. In the army admiral Dr. Isaac Pasha Molho, Fr. Menetes Pasa Galimidi, Dr. Isaac Pasa Galimidi and admiral Elias Pasa Cohen. Upon recurrence of blood libel accusations, Sultan Aziz issued the attached firman dated July 11th, 1866 taking the Jews under his protection. Thanks to this firman the Greek Orthodox patriarchate had to issue encyclicals to all churches, forbidding such practices.
SULTAN MURAD V (Born) 1840 - (Deceased) 1904 CE
The Sultan Murad V, was a music amateur but this was not enough for him to keep the throne and after 93 days he had to leave the throne to Abdul Hamid II.
SULTAN ABDULHAMID II (Born) 1842 - (Deceased) 1918 CE
Following Ottoman territorial losses in the Balkans owing to the Turco-Russian war and the ensuing Berlin Treaty, mass immigration of Turks and Jews starts towards Turkey. The Jews prepare festivities for the 400th anniversary of their arrival from Spain. Abdulhamid is making plans for installing 200,000 Jewish immigrants from Russia in the south east, but this remains as a project. The Jews are out of their shell. In the 1887 parliament we see Jewish parliament member. Abraham Adjiman, Menahem Salah Pasa, Ziver, Davitchon Levi and David Karmona. In the 1908 parliament Vitali Faradji Alberta Fua, Emmanuel Carasso, Nisim Mazliyah, Yehezkel Sasson and at the senate Bohor Eskenazi. After the Alfred Dreyfus case, the arrival of the Hungarian born Theodor Herzl from the leading Viennese newspaper "Neue Freie Presse" to Istanbul takes place. He comes first in 1898 then in 1901 and a third time in 1902 and tries to obtain an audience with the Sultan Abdulhamid. It is on his third voyage that he is finally gtanted one through the head Rabbi Moshe Levy. The Sultan receives him, and through the conversation Herzl tries to obtain a Jewish homeland under the protection of the Sultan and under the same statutes as the Island of Crete.
SULTAN MEHMED RESAD (Born) 1844 - (Deceased) 1918 CE
Sultan Mehmed Resad's reign is marked by the Balkan war in 1912, the first world war 1914-1918 and the collapse of what remained of a world empire. The only gain was the return to Turkey of the Kars and Ardahan provinces. In foreign affairs, 3 consul generals, 10 consuls, a court interpreter, 2 ministerial advisers, 1 consulate inspector and some embassy secretaries are members of the Jewish community. Government paid doctors in the provinces, and at the Dardanelles the head doctor of the Red Crescent hospital colonel Behor Kamhi, serving in different places, navy major palace dentist Sami Gunsberg, Dr. David Hayon, Colonel Menahem Bey Hodara, Colonel Rafael Bey, Dalmedico, Lt. Colonel Isaac Ojalvo, Lt. Colonel Alfandari, Major Adjubel, Major Nissim Maden, Major Yerushalmi, Avram Bey Matalon, Captain Bensussen and many others of which we can count the fallen at the front in 1914-1918: Major Isaac Adjubel, Captain Albert Cohen, Captin Izidor Shalom, Captain Zavarro, Captain Albert Menashe, Captain Pepo Akshiote, Captain Siyaves, Captain Albagli, Captain Asa, Captain David Feder and Captain Pharmacist Behor Alfandar.
END OF OTTOMAN RULE IN PALESTINE
Then what happened?.
........Oh yeah, the British, who were put in charge, managed to stir up the region by betraying both sides.
And now we have a mess, Hezbollah wants to take over the world?
The very idea is laughable.
Hezbollah wants Israel out of Lebanon, end of story. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 7:21:16 PM |
And now we have a mess, Hezbollah wants to take over the world?
.
Hezbollah is a Shiite group. I still can't figure how they manage to align with Syrian baathists as a middleman for their connection with Iran. Aren't Baathists mostly Sunni, and responsible for blowing up the Shiite mosques and neighborhoods in Iraq?
The Hezbollah connection to "Radical Islam" is a bit strained. They are militant, but not as "world conquest" focused as the Sunni, and nowhere near the Wahhabi. The Shia does seem to have more of a neighborhood and tribal focus. I always liked that expression: Think Global, act local. Somebody stole it from the Shia. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 7:48:35 PM |
Hezbollah is a Shiite group. I still can't figure how they manage to align with Syrian baathists as a middleman for their connection with Iran. Aren't Baathists mostly Sunni, and responsible for blowing up the Shiite mosques and neighborhoods in Iraq?
Doesn't make sense, does it? Like most of the Arab people, Syria supported Hezbollah's efforts to get Israel to abandon its occupation of southern Lebanon, but Syria remains a vehemently secular regime which is uncomfortable with Hezbollah's religious ideology. Recently Abdallah Safieddine, Hezbollah's Tehran-based envoy, declared that "both countries' support was political and moral and that neither Tehran nor Damascus would decide the future of his movement."
The Hezbollah connection to "Radical Islam" is a bit strained.
Very, they have denounced AQ on many occassions for targetting civilians, and won't allow Lebanon to be used as a base of operations for other groups to target Israeli civilians, Syria isn't too happy about that.
They are militant, but not as "world conquest" focused as the Sunni, and nowhere near the Wahhabi. The Shia does seem to have more of a neighborhood and tribal focus. I always liked that expression: Think Global, act local. Somebody stole it from the Shia.
Well, it's hard to ignore the fact that Hezbollah has won over not just the Shi'ias, but the Sunnis, and Christians in Lebanon. Outside the US, Christian organizations are becoming more vocally opposed to Israeli occupation.
Lebanon's Christian president has been highly critical of Israel's onslaught, and Lebanese Christian religious leaders – including the country's largest Christian community, called for an immediate halt to Israel's "war crimes," denounced "the aggressions...which are war crimes against the Lebanese people," called on "the international community to halt the aggression...and lift the unjust [Israeli] blockade," and "hailed the resistance, mainly led by Hezbollah which represents one of the sections of society."
On Aug. 3, the Geneva-based World Council of Churches representing about 560 million Christians in 110 countries; condemned Israel's actions and the international community's lack of action.
"A war of ominous dimension and of far-reaching consequences is causing unimaginable and untold suffering to the people in Lebanon," said WCC General Secretary Reverend Samuel Kobia.
I probably don't have to tell you what the Christian Right in the US wants Israel to do. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?*
Posted: 8/21/2006 8:00:43 PM | | What the hell ... I say give the Militant Muslims exactly what they ask for ... they seem to think the ultimate glory is to die for Allah, soooo, let them do so ... KILL EVERY ONE OF THE RAG-HEAD **stardS !!!!!!! ... & GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!!!!! | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 8:03:58 PM | | Syria is a hypocritical regime who still has its intelligence officers in lebanon and also has its uncle tom pro syrian president lahoud in there. Hisbolla has lost its credibility as a lebanese militia and is now considered pro iranian but no one in lebanon dares to confront them. All of the muslims are christians have finally come together through all of those years of civil war and all oppose hisbolla 100000% . Your statement that hisbolla won over the christians and the sunnis is absolutely ludicrous. Being lebanese american i hear all the dirt and absolutly no one but the shiites support hisbolla and that is because they only care for iran, not about lebanon. Watch the lebanese channels and u will see the trickle of lebanese opposition groups to hisbolla who carefully oppose them but are too afraid to say too much because they know who holds all the power in lebanon. Anyone and i mean anyone that believes that the true lebanese side with hisbolla are in a dream land far away from reality. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 8:22:14 PM | KILL EVERY ONE OF THE RAG-HEAD **stardS !!!!!!! ... & GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!!!!!
Oh, ....The Irony.
One has to wonder why the world is so fucked up.
Wellllllllllll, .....not really.
The "us" and "them" are often cut from the same cloth.
Four letter word, starts with an "H".
......has an "E" at the end.
...add an "A" and a "T" in the middle.
And when the jets hit the WTC, flown by Saudis (US Allies), ....Hezbollah spoke out against this atrocity, but, sadly, Fox, and MEMRI, and Mr. Spencer probably didn't mention this.
Too busy rallying the faithful to:
KILL EVERY ONE OF THE RAG-HEAD **stardS !!!!!!! ... & GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!!!!!
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 8:35:55 PM | Too busy rallying the faithful to:
I haven't watched a lot of Fox, but Spencer often argues for Islamic reformation, as futile as it may be. It is almost as easy as getting Pat Robertson and Billy Graham to convert them.
I believe that would be Theocratic Authoritarianism
Not much of a difference. Not worth splitting hairs.
Edit: Ever read an explanation of how a Muslim is supposed to trim his nails? I have. I am trimming mine the way I feel like it, as I type and read your responses. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 8:54:32 PM |
Hezbollah is a Shiite group. I still can't figure how they manage to align with Syrian baathists as a middleman for their connection with Iran. Aren't Baathists mostly Sunni, and responsible for blowing up the Shiite mosques and neighborhoods in Iraq?
Syria is an odd nut. They also sided with Iran, during the Iran-Iraq war...against a Sunni-Baathist government.
Peace  | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 8:55:41 PM | I haven't watched a lot of Fox, but Spencer often argues for Islamic reformation, as futile as it may be. It is almost as easy as getting Pat Robertson and Billy Graham to convert them
I often wonder if the Muslim Reformation has been stalled, not because it's the most recent of the flavors of Abrahamic theism, but because of oppression and poverty in the places of the world where (if modern history is taken into account), resentment against the west didn't really need Islam to fuel hate....
I think given the right condidtions. Lebanon can thrive as a pluralistic society, ..it has before.
I live amongst many Muslims. I have probably met more Muslims in the flesh, from the Middle East, North Africa, and the Sub Sahara, ...then I have Americans.
The "Reformation" is happening, ....where conditions exist for it to happen.
Here in Canada anyway.
Lebanon could be a shining example in that region. Without the need for the secular styled nastiness of the Baathists.
Position on Israel
There is a deep enmity between Hezbollah and Israel. One of the reasons for the founding of Hezbollah was resistance against the occupation of Lebanon by Israel (1978-2000). It became the main politico-military force among the Shi'a community in Lebanon and the main arm of what became known later as the Islamic Resistance in Lebanon.
Despite the strident rhetoric, in recent interviews Nasrallah has answered questions concerning the establishment of a Palestinian state established alongside an Israeli state in a way which suggested that the organization no longer has the intent to destroy the state of Israel. Hezbollah’s present leadership disclaims any interest in contesting Israel’s right to exist outside of disputed territories.
In a 2003 interview, Nasrallah stated "Of course, it would bother us that Jerusalem goes to Israel... (but) let it happen. I would not say O.K. I would say nothing." Hezbollah's website, however, marks a distinction between "Zionist ideology" and Judaism. It sees the rejection of Zionism as an attitude hold across "races, religions, and nationalities". It likens Zionism to "the concept of creating 'Israel' by the use of force and violence, by stealing the Arabs’ lands and killing Palestinians". "Opposing the Zionists ideology is not opposing setting a home for Jews".
Women’s rights
Hezbollah recognizes and promotes women’s rights (in the mold of the Western liberal tradition). One member of the Hezbollah Political Council, speaking to an Online Journal correspondent in July 2006, claimed that “Hezbollah differs from many Islamic groups in our treatment of women. We believe women have the ability like men to participate in all parts of life.” The Online Journal correspondent writes, “From its founding in the 1980s, Hezbollah women have headed education, medical and social service organizations. Most recently Hezbollah nominated several women to run in the Lebanese elections. It named Wafa Hoteit as a chief of Al Noor Radio (also recently bombed), and promoted 37-year-old Rima Fakhry to its highest ruling body, the Hezbollah Political Council. Part of Fakhry's duties include interpreting Islamic feminism in Sharia law for the Committee for Political Analysis.”
Social services
Hezbollah also organizes an extensive social development program which runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon.
Hezbollah provides many social services in Lebanon. According to CNN: "Hezbollah did everything that a government should do, from collecting the garbage to running hospitals and repairing schools." In 1996 “The Electoral Program of Hezbollah,” the organization declared its wish to improve educational and health system. Then in May 2006 UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs published: "Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings - it also boasts an extensive social development program.
The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centers that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance program. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members." Most experts believe that Hezbollah's social and health programs are worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually.
Hezbollah's social service agencies provide health care and schooling for poor farmers. In July 2006, during the war with Israel, when there was no running water in Beirut, Hezbollah was arranging supplies all around the city. "People here (in South Beirut) see Hezbollah as a political movement and a social service provider as much as it is a militia that delivers the goods for its followers, in this traditionally poor and dispossessed Shiite community."
Hezbollah claims to have increased its popularity through a non-sectarian approach: "We presented a new example, and this increased our popularity . . . We say that our mayors should serve the whole of the people in their towns, rather than serving just the party" said spokesman Abu Zeinab.
Hezbollah also engages in organizing youths in the universities in other activities, such as promoting recycling on campus.
Maybe it's not a Muslim/Jewish problem.
It could be the fact the the Muslim/Zionist right-wing, ...both, are pro-war, pro retribution, ...while the left-wing Muslims/Zionists want peace, and a two state solution in Palestine/Israel. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 9:06:37 PM |
It could be the fact the the Muslim/Zionist right-wing, ...both, are pro-war, pro retribution, ...while the left-wing Muslims/Zionists want peace, and a two state solution in Palestine/Israel.
And it could be the Illuminati at the top of the pecking order of all of the major religions. Now watch this post magically disappear. | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 339 | |
| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 9:20:26 PM | but Spencer often argues for Islamic reformation
Often? I guess if you consider demonizing it a call for "reformation". I wouldn't put too much stock in the "explanations of Islam" that come from a right-wing, anti-Islam conservative.
Spencer is hardly the expert he pretends to be. An MA in religious studies from UNC? Unfortunately, the primary focus of religious studies at UNC is Christian and Jewish studies, Islamic studies form the barest minority available in that program.
Given that he did his thesis on "The Monophysite in the Mirror" (a treatise on the conversion of John Henry Newman to Catholicism in 1837 and Newman's denunciation of the Church of England as monophysite) it isn't hard to figure out what he studied there (it is important to do your thesis on a topic that directly relates to your course of study, at least if you want to earn your degree).
It's also interesting that as an "expert" on Islam he didn't bother to write anything on the topic until after 9/11.
I don't think he truely has anything of value to offer on the topics of Islam and definitely not Hezbollah.
*edit* Illuminati...rofl | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 10:05:49 PM |
Spencer is hardly the expert he pretends to be. An MA in religious studies from UNC? Unfortunately, the primary focus of religious studies at UNC is Christian and Jewish studies, Islamic studies form the barest minority available in that program.
He seems to rely on the services of MEMRI a lot.
Yet he's referred to as a "Scholar of Islamic History"?
You'd think an educated man, without a hidden agenda, would know better than to align himself with
such a duplicitous organization, ....even for the sake of credibility.
http://theislamistthreat.blogspot.com/
"The ramblings of the insane....."
Yeah this guy has TONS of credibility  Is this crap really taken seriously in the US?
Are idiots like this really advising the administration on Israel/Hezbollah, and Israel/Palestine? | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/21/2006 10:06:06 PM | Aaargghh! One terrorist organization or some nation state attacking each other! It's too bad human nature is so generally nasty and unreasonable. All countries and people on this ball of a planet are fighting over mere crums and specks in the big universe. We're all like trapped on a desert island fighting over dwindling resources. We either all sink or swim together!
Everyone on this planet are like a piles of "loose sand"; there's no structure, direction, purpose, or common order. What this sad little world needs is a real live person (and hench people) who's like EMPEROR PALPATINE in STAR WARS. Someone with enough balls and power to forcefully pacify and bring One World Order to the bickering factions of humanity. We need a World Leader who's capable of doing anything and everything to bring peace and order.
Uugghhh! Watching the news is so depressing! It's always the same: war, death & destruction, loss, crying, ****ing, etc. It's the same old shit with different names. | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 343 | |
| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 12:32:01 AM | Can you tell me what his Arabic name was before he converted to catholicism, and had to change it to avoid the fatwas?
What an odd statement to make.
I don't think we are talking about the same Robert Spencer.
I'm referring to the one who has been writing all the anti-Islam books lately, who also wrote "Classical Education in the Contemporary World" published in 1998.
who are you referring to?
You see, the Robert Spencer who has been writing the anti-Islam books has never been Muslim. He is a Melkite Greek Catholic (by birth not conversion), one of the branches of orthodox Catholicism in the middle east. He isn't from the middle east, at all, but his grandparents were. They also were middle eastern Melkite Greek Catholics.
In fact, here is a little quote from him that helps to illustrate this:
Since childhood I have had an interest in the Muslim world, from which my family comes. When I was very young my grandparents would tell me stories about their life there, and I always heard them with great interest. When I met Muslim students as a college undergraduate I began reading and studying the Qur'an in earnest.
Notice how he doesn't say that he or his family is Muslim, just that his grandparents were from the middle east.
Even if we were to assume they were Muslim (and not in fact Melkite Greek Catholic) they obviously weren't practicising because, as he clearly indicates, he knew nothing about the Koran before university (a funny thing for him to say if he had such an extensive background that he was able to p*ss off the imams enough to warrant a fatwa. What's even funnier is that after altering his identity to avoid a fatwa that he would then publish so prolificly under his new identity in a manner which would warrant even more fatwas).
Spencer himself admits he has absolutely no academic qualifications in Islamic studies and that all of his knowledge is basically self taught.
It is amusing to me that some people like to focus on my credentials, when I have never made a secret of the fact that most of what I know about Islam comes from personal study
Like I said, his expertise is self proclaimed and I would accept little he had to say about Islam or Hezbollah given his total lack of balance. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? *
Posted: 8/22/2006 12:49:52 AM |  ...........................................................
Like Canadians, Israelis have the right to live their lives without the threat of constant violence. As do the Palestinians ... they have a right to live their lives without the threat of occupation and genocide.
Q. Is Israel using disproportionate force?
A. Israel must respond with enough force to put an end to the threat Hezbollah poses to the men, women and children of Israel.
Proportionality must be measured in terms of the extent of the threat. With over 12,000 missiles targeted at Israel and a mandate to destroy the Jewish state. Hezbollah is a direct threat not only to the one million Israelis who live within the range of the rockets, but to the Jewish people as a whole. As has already been established some time ago, Hezbollah no longer has the intent to destroy the state of Israel. Hezbollah’s present leadership disclaims any interest in contesting Israel’s right to exist outside of disputed territories.
In a 2003 interview, Nasrallah stated "Of course, it would bother us that Jerusalem goes to Israel... [but] let it happen. I would not say O.K. I would say nothing."
All democratic nations have the obligation to defend their citizens from attack and harm's way.
Failure to face the threat head on and with the amount of force needed to destroy it would be irresponsible. This same applies to Lebanon ...
Israel's use of force is directly proportionate to the threat that Hezbollah poses to Israeli civilians.
Q. Why does Israel bomb civilian buildings and infrastructure in Lebanon?
A. Israel does everything within its power to prevent civilian casualties. Only terrorist groups like Hezbollah aim to maximize civilian deaths.
Israel is a democratic country with a moral army that makes every effort to avoid involving civilians in conflicts and causing civilian casualties. Yesh Gvul (“There is a limit !”) is an Israeli peace group campaigning against the occupation by backing soldiers who refuse duties of a repressive or aggressive nature. The brutal role of the Israeli army in subjugating the Palestinian population places numerous servicemen in a grave moral and political dilemma, as they are required to enforce policies they deem illegal, immoral and ultimately harmful to Israeli interests.
By contrast, Hezbollah deliberately tries to maximize civilian casualties by targeting major Israeli population centres and by using civilians as human shields. Insert death tolls here that have been quoted in previous posts.
Israel only targets facilities in southern Lebanon which serve the supply and command capacity of Hezbollah. As well as ambulances, Peacewatchers, buildings sheltering only women, small children and geriatric civilian population ...
Israel targeted the runways of the Beirut airport and the Beirut-Damascus highway in order to stop Hezbollah from smuggling the two abducted Israelis out of Lebanon and to destroy the routes through which Hezbollah is re-supplied with weapons. As well as to keep as much of the population isolated and ripe target for bombings.
As a moral country, Israel does not target civilians and regrets any loss of innocent life. Committing genocide on an innocent occupied population apparently doesn't qualify.
The Israel Defense Forces ( IDF) is a disciplined army which adheres to a strict code of conduct. See above Yesh Gvul.
In this current crisis, the IDF has gone out of its way to try and save the lives of Lebanese civilians. As evidenced by the bombing in Qana ... numerous ambulances .... all of this information is available in previous posts.
Prior to attacking an area, the IDF makes announcements and drops pamphlets urging civilians to vacate Hezbollah areas. After they have sealed the area off making it impossible for any one to leave.
Hezbollah, on the other hand, embeds itself in residential neighborhoods, fires missiles out of private homes and cynically uses civilians as human shields. Missile launchers are mounted on trucks ... missiles cannot be fired out of private homes ... are considered in the same category as early American "freedom fighters" and so it goes that as the wives and families of those men probably did not leave their sides ... it could eventually be assumed that neither did the families of the Hezbollah, however there is no proof that they were hiding behind their families.
Q. Following the July 16, 2006 death of 7 Canadians, what is Israel doing to help foreign nationals get out of Lebanon?
A. Israel is working with the international community to ensure that foreign nationals leave Lebanon swiftly and safely. Please cite proof of this.
Israel has expressed its profound sorrow to the government of Canada over the tragic death of the Lebanese Canadian family. Israel unconditionally regrets the deaths of any foreign nationals in Lebanon who are not involved in the violence. What about the Lebanese families ... have they expressed their profound sorrow to the goverenment of Lebanon?
Israel has established a safe corridor and humanitarian task force to facilitate the evacuation of people not involved in the conflict.
Unlike Hezbollah, which seeks to inflict maximum pain and suffering on the Israeli civilian population, Israel is doing everything within its power to help Lebanese civilians.
The government of Israel has created special passageways to allow Lebanese civilians to vacate Hezbollah areas under attack.
It has created special corridors to allow for the free flow of food, medicine and other necessities. A new Israeli task force has been formed to coordinate the distribution of humanitarian aid. All of which remains to be seen ... cite .......
Israel withdrew from Lebanon in May, 2000 in accordance with UN SecurityCouncil resolutions 425 Resolution 425 is dated March 19, 1978
1) Calls for strict respect for the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon within its international peace,
2) Calls upon Israel immediately to cease its military action against Lebanese territorial integrity and withdraw forthwith its forces from all Lebanese territory;
3) Decides, in the light of the request of the Government of Lebanon, to establish immediately under its authority a United Nations interim force for Southern Lebanon for the purpose of confirming the withdrawal of Israeli forces, restoring international peace and security and assisting the Government of Lebanon in ensuring the return of its effective authority in the area, the force to be composed of personnel drawn from Member States;
4) Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Council within twenty-four hours on the implementation of the present resolution.
Resolution 427 is dated May 3, 1978
Deals with the fact that Israeli forces have still not left the Lebanese territory and calls upon Israel to complete its withdrawal from all Lebanese territory without any further delay.
It only took Israel 22 years to comply with those resolutions ... does Lebanon get 22 years to comply with Resolution 1559 ... turn about would be fair play ... no? Resolution 1559 is dated Sept. 2, 2004 ... if my math is correct, they have until Sept. 2026 to comply in order to have the same lenience that was allowed Israel ... no?
Instead of taking steps to secure a peaceful border with Israel, the Lebanese government allowed Hezbollah to take control of the southern part of the country and to stockpile a vast a***nal of rockets and missiles supplied by Syria and Iran.
Israel repeatedly called upon the international community to urge the government of Lebanon to rein in Hezbollah. Lebanon did not exercise its sovereignty and disarm Hezbollah.
Hezbollah is one of the two main organizations representing the Shia community, Lebanon's largest religious bloc. Along with the Amal Movement, but the only militant one (Amal is a political party).
Hezbollah participates in the Parliament of Lebanon. In 1992, it participated in Lebanese elections for the first time, winning 12 out of 128 seats in parliament. It won 10 seats in 1996, and 8 in 2000. In the general election of 2005, it won 14 seats nationwide (of 128 total), and an Amal-Hezbollah alliance won all 23 seats in Southern Lebanon. The bloc it forms with others, the Resistance and Development Bloc, took 27.3% of the seats (see Lebanese general election, 2005).
Also, when municipal elections were held in 1998 this party won control of about 15 percent of contested municipalities. With a proven track record by the second round of elections, in spring 2004, the party won control of 21 percent of the municipalities. Hezbollah is a minority partner in the current Cabinet, holding two (and endorsing a third) cabinet positions in the Lebanese government of July 2005.
Mohamed Fneish was appointed Energy and Water Minister in the cabinet and has been quoted as saying "We are a political force that took part in the polls under the banner of defending the resistance and protecting Lebanon and got among the highest level of popular backing ... Hezbollah’s resistance (against Israel) does not in any way contradict its political role. If joining the government and parliament is a national duty, then so is defending the country.”
The Lebanese government is now responsible to fulfill its obligation as a sovereign state. Until Sept. 2, 2026 ... no?
Lebanon must take control of its own territory including the region abutting the border with Israel, and implement Security Council resolutions 425 and 1559 which call for the disarmament of Hezbollah.
Q. Why does Israel say that Syria and Iran are involved in Hamas and Hezbollah terrorism?
A. Syria and Iran are rogue states that arm, fund and enable Hamas and Hezbollah. Seems fair to me ... Israel is armed, funded, and enabled by the USA ... I suppose with our obligations to them and Iraq ... they have no choice but to seek their supplies elsewhere. What's wrong with arming themselves in defense of an occupation that has gone on for years, and years, and years, and ......................... ????????
Hamas leader Khahled Mashaal has been living in Syria for a number of years. From Damsacus, Mashaal commands terrorist activity against Israelis, including the bombardment of southern Israel with Qassam rockets and the recent abduction of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. Then Israel needs to take that up with Syria and leave the Lebanese people out of it.
Syria also provides support to Hezbollah including the financing and procurement of arms. Hezbollah would not be operating in southern Lebanon without Syrian sponsorship.
Iran is Hezbollah's main benefactor. It provides the terror organization with funding, weapons, training, ideological support, political cover and even elite fighters.
Most of the Katyusha rockets as well as the longer-range missiles that have hit Israel during this crisis came from Iran. They have to get their weapons where they can ... USA is too busy feeding Israel with weapons to kill Palestinians and Lebanese.
Q. What motivates Iran and Syria to support Hamas and Hezbollah?
A. It's a symbiotic relationship. While Islamist terrorists hope to take over the world and impose Muslim rule, their sponsoring states want to keep the world distracted.
Hamas and Hezbollah are driven by an extreme Islamist ideology which calls for the immediate destruction of the State of Israel as part of a greater plan to wage jihad (holy war) against the 'Infidel' Western world. Hezbollah’s present leadership disclaims any interest in contesting Israel’s right to exist outside of disputed territories.
Israel is fighting Hezbollah and not Lebanon. Israel will avoid military escalation whenever and wherever diplomacy has a chance of succeeding.
Israel is attacking Hezbollah's military assets within Lebanon and not Lebanon itself. The apparent destruction of Beirut and the breaking of the ceasefire is .... ?
Israel has struck only at military installations used by Hezbollah. Already discussed ... Qana ... ambulances .........
Israel has no desire to escalate the military action beyond the present theatres of operation in Lebanon and Gaza. On whose word?
There is a widening consensus in the international community that Islamist terror is a global rather than a regional threat.
One has to only look at 9/11 in the United States, the slaughter of the Beslan schoolchildren in Russia, and the murder of innocents on the trains and busses in Madrid and London, as well as the carnage planned for Canadian cities, to see that Israel is embroiled in an ongoing assault by Islamist terrorists determined to defeat Western civilization and replace it with Muslim rule. (sigh)Propaganda ...
Israel is telling its Lebanese neighbours: Return the hostages, disarm the terrorists, control the territory and then we can have peace.
Though Israel understands that military operations are now necessary to defend its citizens by neutralizing the threat posed by Hezbollah's terrorist infrastructure, the eventual solution to the conflict must be diplomatic. Wouldn't it be more productive for Israel to see to it that they comply with all of the UN Resolutions against them first before they go around bullying other countries?
With regard to Lebanon, the components of this solution would be:
Respect for Israel's sovereign boundaries. When are they going to give back the land they are illegally occupying and have greedily stolen?
The overwhelming majority of Canadians - 64% - believe Israel's military response to Hezbollah's unprovoked aggression has been either "completely justified" or "somewhat justified," according to an Ipsos Reid-CanWest Global survey published on Monday, July 24, 2006.
63% of Canadians feel that the onus for compromise for achieving a ceasefire rests with "those who kidnapped the Israeli soldiers" rather than the government of Israel. How many Canadians were surveyed? Was this survey done electronically ... like the others that Israel has already infiltrated?
Jews Against the Occupation
UN Resolutions
Palestinian Refugees have the right to return to their homes in Israel.
General Assembly Resolution 194, Dec. 11, 1948
"Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible."
Israel's occupation of Palestine is Illegal.
Security Council Resolution 242, Nov. 22, 1967
Calls for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the war that year and "the acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."
Israel's settlements in Palestine are Illegal.
Security Council Resolution 446, March 22, 1979
"Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East."
Palestinians have the right to Self-Determination.
General Assembly Resolution 3236, November 22, 1974
Affirms "the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine...to self-determination without external interference" and "to national independence and sovereignty."
Reaffirmation of a Palestinian State
Security Council Resolution 1397, March 12, 2002
Affirms "a vision of a region where two states, Israel and Palestine, live side by side within secure and recognized borders."
Also see:
UN General Assembly Resolution 181 - the 1947 Partition plan of Palestine and the creation of Israel.
International Humanitarian Law: the Geneva Conventions - 150 years of international designated protection of civilians during wartime and Israel's explicit violations.
History of the Palestinian Problem - from the Division for Palestinian Rights, United Nations
Countless More UN Resolutions on Israel - 1955-1992
________________________________________
More UN Resolutions on Israel, 1955-1992
Resolution 106: condemns Israel for Gaza raid.
Resolution 111: condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people.
Resolution 127: recommends Israel suspend its no-man's zone' in Jerusalem.
Resolution 162: urges Israel to comply with UN decisions.
Resolution 171: determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria.
Resolution 228: censures Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control.
Resolution 237: urges Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.
Resolution 248: condemns Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.
Resolution 250: calls on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.
Resolution 251: deeply deplores Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250.
Resolution 252: declares invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital.
Resolution 256: condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation.
Resolution 259: deplores Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.
Resolution 262: condemns Israel for attack on Beirut airport.
Resolution 265: condemns Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan.
Resolution 267: censures Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem.
Resolution 270: condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon.
Resolution 271: condemns Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem.
Resolution 279: demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 280: condemns Israeli's attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 285: demands immediate Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 298: deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem.
Resolution 313: demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 316: condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 317: deplores Israel's refusal to release.
Resolution 332: condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 337: condemns Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.
Resolution 347: condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 425: calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 427: calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 444: deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces.
Resolution 446: determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 450: calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.
Resolution 452: calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.
Resolution 465: deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist its settlements program.
Resolution 467: strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.
Resolution 468: calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return.
Resolution 469: strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians.
Resolution 471: expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 476: reiterates that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are null and void.
Resolution 478: censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its Basic Law.
Resolution 484: declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors.
Resolution 487: strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.
Resolution 497: decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights
is null and void and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.
Resolution 498: calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.
Resolution 501: calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.
Resolution 509: demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon.
Resolution 515: demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in.
Resolution 517: censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 518: demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.
Resolution 520: condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut.
Resolution 573: condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
Resolution 587: takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw.
Resolution 592: strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.
Resolution 605: strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
Resolution 607: calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 608: deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 636: deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 641: deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 672: condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
Resolution 673: deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Resolution 681: deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 694: deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Resolution 726: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 799: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
And many more … too numerous to list. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 1:03:50 AM | War is terrible no matter what......... in this case......a couple of soldiers are taken....the guaranteed response / WAR/ happens.......One side targets strategic sites / the other lobs missles anywhere ........ the US gets blamed, even though they are not directly involved and are earnestly trying to stop the hostilities ....... more inocents get killed because a certain terrorist group refuse to give up ...... the US gets blamed even more ........ the war ends ..... the western nations are the "evil" ones ..... the US gets slammed verbally some more ..... the terrorists gather support with the "sheep" by giving them "12000 US dollars" for each household to help rebuild .... and we should believe that this is okay?
I question where all the "evil" "US" dollars came from, and if the US is so evil and the blame for the problems..then why is their money acceptable?
If the terrorists and Israel were at war .... why was the US to blame.
If the terrorists are so bent on the followings of their religion ..... why do they trash and go against everything that it stands for?
The war should have never happened ...... but it did.
The terrorists should have been stopped completely before they could brainwash or poison anyone else .. but they weren't.
There is more to come.
And I am tired of seeing the US blamed for everything bad in the world. They have their moments and good and bad moves like any other nation, but the middle eastern left wing theory of all their problems being caused by the US is so idiotic.
By the way ....... I'm Canadian, and proudly so, but I will stand by our neighbours any day. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? *
Posted: 8/22/2006 2:52:43 AM | It's all very intelectually stimulating!
Did you ever ask yourself how would you feel if you were born in Israel?
I for one had enough with the daily stress of having to aways look over my shoulders who is trying to stab me in the back or explode themselves next to me.
You are very lucky to be born here and be able to pass judgment from the comfort of your north american lifestyle. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? *
Posted: 8/22/2006 3:36:13 AM | I for one had enough with the daily stress of having to aways look over my shoulders who is trying to stab me in the back or explode themselves next to me. I'm sorry you had to experience that. If you now feel safer, that's good and I'm glad for you.
You are very lucky to be born here and be able to pass judgment from the comfort of your north american lifestyle. My North American lifestyle ... at this time and in the very near future as far ahead as I can see ... is nothing like you imagine. I'm a nurse ... a home health nurse. I service the refugees of our nation as well as the poorest of our citizens. That's the thing I do best and I put my life in danger with just about every visit I make. I'm extremely dedicated to my work ... it gives my life meaning.
The refugees of our nation do not live in posh neighborhoods surrounded by bright green lawns with little lawn ornaments. I spend my days in the ghettos of America ... the neighborhoods where muggings and murders are a way of life ... daily at any given hour.
I am not a religious person ... but extremely tolerant of others' beliefs as well as customs. That actually makes me the perfect candidate for my job. I do not pass judgment on others. That's also a big part of what makes me the person I am and what empowers me to be able to do what I do.
I also happen to be a very big defender of the "underdog". I believe that there is never an excuse to deny any human being the right to survive peacefully if at all possible. I believe there are human beings in the Middle East who are being denied that right and I believe our country has contributed greatly to their plight.
For ten years of my life I lived about 1.5 km from the East German Border ... a mine field that was not even safe for a mouse to cross much less a human being. I learned a lot in those years ...
I learned that it is never too late to stand up against oppression, suppression, or human indignities and barbarities of any manner. I am once again reminded of the words of Prof. Haim Bresheeth:
Prof. Haim Bresheeth
Al-Ahram Weekly
10-16 August 2006
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/807/op113.htm
One of the most determined, courageous and influential opposition groups in Israel, now and in the past, is called Yesh Gvul; it represents and assists those bold Israelis who are taking a stand against their country's and government's war crimes: they refuse to serve in the Israeli army, preferring instead to go to prison in support of their refusal to kill and destroy. About 2000 Israelis have already taken this position, despite the almost hysterical support the Israeli public gives its leadership in most military adventures, and especially during the latest and worst atrocities in Gaza and Lebanon. Between them, small group that they are, those Israelis represent what little is left of the Israeli moral and principled stance.
Yesh Gvul in Hebrew is literally "There is a boundary", but could be better transliterated as "This far and no further", or "There is a limit". So, the group thinks there is, or should be, a limit, a boundary which should not be crossed, a red line: a limit to barbarism, insensitivity and brutality, a civilized limit to behavior even in wartime, a limit which emerges from international law, UN resolutions, the Geneva Conventions, a generally-accepted level of violence beyond which one cannot, and should not venture, so that the fabric of society does not rupture. There are boundaries that should not be transgressed -- once you cross that boundary, they believe, you cannot argue when the other side does the same. A code transgressed is a code destroyed. The last few years, not to mention the last few weeks, have proven them wrong. Each of the boundaries of civilized behavior was crossed and decimated, trampled by US, UK or Israeli tanks, never to return.
One of the boundaries we seem to be unable to discover is the limit to the endurance of the Jewish lobby, here, in the US, and in Europe. A sorry tale of collusion emerges from almost every leading newspaper, every hour of quality radio, every current affairs television program. It is well known that many Jews front numerous media outlets and discourse on the continued Middle Eastern saga of pain, violence and propaganda, yet no one seems to think this strange. There are no Arabs, or even influential Muslims, in similar positions in the British or American media. That in itself is worrying, but would have been less so if we had examples of a wide variety of positions taken by influential Jews -- if some were, for example, doing better than mouthing Israeli propaganda, and imaginatively
representing the Palestinian, Arab or Muslim perspective, or being sometimes critical of Israel's positions, especially when they are so obviously not just immoral, but counter- productive. That day has not yet come, it seems. The great majority of such commentators are automatically supportive of even the most brutal excesses of Israel; a kind of a Zionist Pavlovian dog chained to the flag, on a short leash, shooting from the hip, and never venturing far from home.
How can the public in Britain, for example, get a proper, balanced and informed opinion of events if this guaranteed choir of apologists is there, day in day out, to sing in disturbing unison, protecting us from facts, truth and evidence, and taking care to brand any critic of Israeli brutality an anti-Semite? The main difference is of style rather than content amongst members of this regiment of befuddlers. They range from the hysterical tones of the Jewish Chronicle and the English language press in Israel, to the more complex, better-presented and confusing arguments of Dershowitz in the US, and The Guardian's own Jonathan Freedland. On the one hand, you have the voice of unwavering right- wingers such as Melanie Phillips, never one to stop and wonder about the wisdom and morality of Israeli policy and actions, and always ready to justify whatever happened that day, and what will happen tomorrow, telling us that Israel has been "restrained" and "humane", inferring that it has been unnecessarily so, and could indeed be even more brutal in the future. Such people are taking a moral leaf from the book of the Yesha Rabbinical Council, the august body of extreme settlers, who in response to the Israeli massacre in Qana declared that, "in war time, there are no innocent civilians". That this attitude is illegal under international law seems of little consequence; that it may be applied by one's opponent should have been enough to persuade people against taking this position, but no such luck.
On the other hand, we have writers in such erstwhile publications as The Observer, The Guardian and The New Statesman, apologizing in more restrained tones. Israel, they tell us, is fighting in the frontline against terror, represented by Hamas and Hezbollah (both popular parties which were elected to government); that this is a war to return the abducted (sic) soldiers or to defend Israel's borders from rockets. All this is in clear defiance of information and facts, and even of clear military thinking, not to mention morality and legality. In an article in The Guardian, Wednesday, 2 August, Freedland seemed to have found the perfect pitch as to why we should support Olmert: Yes, he may have made a (military and strategic) mistake, but if he loses out, he will be replaced by someone even worse, like Netanyahu. Not a word on the warped immorality and barbarity of the invasion, of the deranged use of proscribed ammunition like cluster bombs, white phosphorous and depleted uranium on population centers, on the killing of over 700 civilians (now over 1000), on the wanton destruction of Lebanon in order to, as the Israeli chief-of-staff put it, "knock them back 20 years". One assumes the latter meant a return to the mid-1980s when Beirut was a total wreck as a result of months of Israeli bombing and shelling. Well, this was already achieved in record time, but that does not seem to bother too many Jewish intellectuals in Britain or the US, or such luminaries like Bernard Henri-Levy or Alain Finkielkraut in Paris, of a new brand of right-wing Jewish intellectuals, paralleling the many such examples in Israel of left-wing "peaceniks" who have turned into the worst type of hawks, like Defense Minister Amir Peretz, out to "out-Sharon" Sharon.
So what has happened to Jewish morality? What has happened to the descendants of the prophets, the progeny of those who have laid the foundations of our commonly held concepts of justice? What has happened -- more to the point -- to the sons and daughters of Holocaust survivors?
The best-known rabbi of the classical Jewish period in ancient Palestine was Rabbi Hillel the Elder. In a delightful episode, we are told of a businessman who stopped him in the street, asking him to deliver the gist of the Torah "on one foot", or as we might now say, "in a jiffy", because he had no time to waste. Instead of waving him off, Hillel the Elder carefully considered this inquiry. His answer is a classical tenet of any juridical codex: "That which is hateful to you, do not inflict unto your neighbor." That, he told the man, is the "Torah whole". So, here we have the ancient Hebrews and their moral driving force that survived to this very day -- all social actions should be dictated by reciprocity; all
actions which are the same, are equally valued, whoever commits them. How sad, then, that Israel, and most Israelis and Jews, have forgotten this simple principle. If you do not wish your soldiers to be "abducted," do not abduct thousands of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians; if you wish your populations to be safe in their homes, it may not be a good idea to terrorize the Palestinians and Lebanese for so many decades and destroy their cities; if you wish to be safe within recognized boundaries you should not hold on to territories occupied by force many decades ago; if you wish recent UN resolutions to be honored by Lebanon, how about honoring ones from the late 1960's about vacating the occupied territories of Palestine, Syria and Lebanon; and if you wish to be safe
from the nuclear weapons which "rogue states" like Iraq or Iran may develop one day, then maybe it is not such a good idea to keep an a***nal of almost 1000 nuclear bombs. You get the idea.
That Jewish politicians and intellectuals have abandoned, forgotten and erased such moral principles of social interaction is dangerous not only to them, and to their numerous victims in the Middle East, but also to the rest of us. After 9/ 11, President Bush and Vice President Blair have adopted the morality developed and perfected by modern Israel, honing it into a military clash of civilizations, a thesis beloved of Israeli "thinkers". That is why the two refuse to move towards a ceasefire and resumption of some kind of normality so that the many people now trapped can be saved, and a semblance of order can return to Lebanon and Gaza. The Israelis are the vanguard of the new morality of HiTech crusaders, with its typical chant of the First versus the Third World; for one eye, a hundred eyes; for one soldier, whole cities; for one rocket on Haifa, 200 missiles on Beirut; and for every American soldier or civilian killed, a hundred Arabs shall pay with their lives.
I have no doubt that many of those who justify and argue away Israeli barbarities as "strategic moves" are quietly ashamed of themselves, but hold the party line as is expected of them. In so doing, they betray Jewish tradition and values, Jewish liberalism, and a long history of suffering from racism and anti-Semitism. They also make such terrifying historical echoes more likely to return in the future, when they are part of removing the limits and boundaries, of justifying the unjustifiable. Justice, we learnt from Hillel the Elder, is not divisible -- either we all have it, or none shall have it. They, and the rest of us, may rue the day they were too frightened to remember their own history, and act to keep the
boundaries intact between humanity and barbarism.
* The writer is chair of Cultural and Media Studies at the University of East London. He is co- editor of The Gulf War and the New World Order , published by Zed Books.
... Shalom | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? *
Posted: 8/22/2006 4:06:25 AM | Thanks for responding in kind.
I am very impressed by the task you took upon yourself and by the type of work you do. It truely takes a unique individual to engage in what you do. God bless you, and I'm sure you are having a much deeper job satisfaction than most, specifically because of what you are up against.
I am far from believing that the Israeli government is always doing the right thing, many mistakes were made along the way. It would have made me alittle happier if people in Arab nations would have the same type of debate and influence on their leadership as people in Israel do. It seems to me that far to many Arab countries are rules by an unpopular minority, that is using tactics such as keeping the majority of the population poor and uneducated as a means of better controlling them. I would love to hear the Arab people who managed to come live here and made a better life for themselves, mix their retoric of blaming Israel and the US for everything wrong in their in their countries with some criticism of their own leadership. Just to ballance things out. Maybe, and just maybe if some arab regimes would be more transperent, use a fair share of power and would spend more on creating Education and job opportunities, there would be less suffering in the middle east.
Amen | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 4:54:20 AM | Adrenaline is a great drug. Some people find that gambling gives them their fix. For others, the big jolt comes from fighting. What's the difference between "winning" a huge jackpot and "winning" a battle? Either way it's an adrenaline rush. Either way, it blocks the pain of an otherwise unbearable view of life.
Any so-called religion that produces a culture that thrives on strife is really just the rationalization of an adrenaline junkie. Near as I can tell, that' pretty-much includes any so-called fundamentalist interpretation of any prophetic figure, be it Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, or whomever.
People are free. I'm not sure I have the right to tell people who really want to fight that they can't. If their fighting starts to directly harm me in any way, at that point I have a right to tell them to take is somewhere else. If everyone were to do that, pretty soon they'd run out of places and would have to turn to gambling instead. However, there seem to be plenty of people who are willing to put up with wanton destruction if the line of b.s. used to justify it is convincing enough, and many who support it by taking one side over the other. Who knows, maybe we all get off just a little bit on the adrenaline hit from other people's fights.
Reasonable force to protect my rights and the rights of those around me is ... reasonable. That has nothing to do with punishment. It has only to do with prevention of further harm. If the degree or type of force I use is unreasonable--if it's intended to retaliate or punish--it only escalates the fighting. So, when I back up my insistence that fighters take it down the block, I have to be careful! My resolve has to be set in absolute stone. And it is.
If anyone uses force to stop a fight, as far as I'm concerned they are heroes. If anyone uses force to "defeat" or "punish" an opponent in order to "force" them to give up their claims for justice, as far as I'm concerned they are extortionists.
If all we have to look forward to in the future is the triumph of the cleverest and most determined extortionists, it's not going to be a very pretty situation. Freedom requires due process, and victory in war is the antithesis of due process. The only just cause for the use of force is to put a stop to extortion.
At this point, there are no "innocents" in either Israel, Lebanon, Palestine, or the Occupied Territories. There are noncombattants. But everyone there is involved in the conflict in some way and has decided to go along with it. When fighting first breaks out, there might well be bystanders who get caught up in it. But after a while, people either reign in their so-called leaders or they don't. They either call for outside help or they don't. They either accept the help that is offered from the outside or they don't.
It is always wrong to go after noncombatants, or to recklessly endanger them because doing so has no reasonable bearing on putting a stop to the extortion. Suicide bombing of civilian targets is wrong. So is bombing in the vicinity of human shields, unless they are giving active support to combatants--in which case they've become combatants.
Hezbollah is wrong. The Israeli government is wrong. They're both wrong. Anyone who pursues a strategy of retaliation is wrong. Putting a stop to the fighting so that due process can be applied is the only way that any degree of justice can be achieved. When I see someone talk justice but walk retaliation, I know I'm dealing with someone who is either under the influence of adrenaline or just likes to fight.
Either way, there's no sense arguing with them. They can just take it somewhere else as far as I'm concerned.
All the best,
Robert | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 5:18:57 AM |
All this :"what is ur source" is bs b/c "thier" source is going to have the same world view(spin) as they do.
There is little trust for western media for those who have seen the overwhelming evidence of misinformation, disinformation, and mistranslation. Even the Iraeli media is more balanced an honest than the media outlets in the west. Almost all of the cites by those who are pro-war are from sources that are the most discredited, such as MEMRI/CAMERA/AIPAC and the myriad an many affliate organization who's sole purpose is to spread propaganda. And even in the face of obvious de-bunking, ...the same BS get's posted page after page.
Forget trying to unravel history. Do u want all Americans to leave the US b/c it "stole" the land from Indians(rhetorical question). Actually the neanderthals occupied the earth before us? Shall we all move to outerspace?
Now do u see?
This is the most USELESS of all the repeated fallacies. This isn't about 1000 years ago, 400 years ago, or even 100 years ago, for the most part, it's slightly less than 4 decades, and the occupations are illegal, and the disputed one that's the biggest barrier to the Lebanese/Israel issue has proof, in the form of documentation, that what Hezbollah and Lebanon AND Syria have maintained concerning Shaba Farms is FACT.
Ironically, the proof was furnished by an Israeli scholar.
The UN was created to harmonize everyones world view. However the UN has no bite b/c it is soley powered by politicians with thier conflicting world views. Fix the UN and u END WAR.
Please....... let's be specific about WHO the barrier is to this one:
The reality is that the UN can only be as effective as the Security Council and which permanent member has used its' veto the most?
Not including applications for membership, the US has vetoed more resolutions than any other member with the USSR being a close second.
US, 76 other than membership.
USSR, 71 other than membership
(US has vetoed 5 memberships, the USSR has vetoed 51 memberships. All of these membership applications eventually passed).
Since '91 France and Britain have used 0, China has used 2, Russia has used 3 and the US has used 12
Hezbollah is wrong. The Israeli government is wrong. They're both wrong. Anyone who pursues a strategy of retaliation is wrong.
Bingo, and the worst wrong of all, are those who've been making a profit from the death, suffering, and oppression of others. | |
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