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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? *
Posted: 8/22/2006 8:17:32 AM | "KILL EVERY ONE OF THE RAG-HEAD **stardS !!!!!!! ... & GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!!!!! "
THIS IS WRONG MIKE.....
not every Arab or Muslim is a damn terrorist....The fanatics are the ones we need to worry about.
If you believe your own post...then how about the American fanatics? Are they any better?
Look...it is very difficult to recognize a fanatic ...just because a person is from the Middle east..does not make them a terrorist...
PS....Using a racist term for Arabs is not going to win you any bonus points...Tone it down..I smell a suspension coming.... | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 8:35:46 AM | Its not a matter of vision on either side, rather a simply inequity relative to propaganda.
Hezbollah will not report the loss of 1500+ "jihadis" who have been eviscerated in this conflict, nor will they equivocate how many civilians dead are their own women and children who've they've place in harm's way.
The numbers they've led you to believe are part of the misinformation that allow them to claim "victory" against the invading Israeli army, and deflect you from the damage that they've caused to peace loving people throughout Lebanon.
We're all for peace here, dude. But face it, there are violent, evil people outside of the military industrial complex. Might doesn't always make wrong. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 9:55:46 AM |
One side targets strategic sites / the other lobs missles anywhere
A blind Shaolin has better vision than a rampaging spazz.
Lebanese dead: 1,130 civilians; 35 Government Military; 65+ Hezbollah
Israeli dead: 52 civilians; 118 Military
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Would someone please explain this...
The bulk of Hezbollah's rockets can only be fired 25km, then they have a few that can go 45km, and even fewer that can go 75km. Meaning, the great majority of Hezbollah's rockets have been fired South of the Litani, and all have been fired South of Jazzin.
Map of locations in Lebanon bombed: http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/maps.shtml
The words of Israel's Brigadier General Dan Halutz, the Israeli Chief of Staff:
"If the soldiers are not returned, we will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years."
“Nothing is safe (in Lebanon), as simple as that,”
10 Beirut Buildings Bombed For Each Haifa Missile: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0607/S00383.htm
"Army chief of staff Dan Halutz has given the order to the air force to destroy 10 multi-storey buildings in the Dahaya district (of Beirut) in response to every rocket fired on Haifa," a senior air force officer told army radio on Monday.
NO Hezbollah rockets could have been fired from Beirut. Explain how blocks and blocks of Beirut are destroyed. Explain why any neighbourhoods/cities/towns, beyond Hezzbollah's military range, needed to be destroyed? Why not believe the Chief of Staff's own words...it was pure retribution...not strategical.
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Some "civilian" areas targeted by Hezbollah...
Kfar Giladi casualties - Reserve soldiers: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287339,00.html
Dozens of reserve soldiers of the artillery unit congregated near the kibbutz in preparation to take part in military operations.
Megiddo: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/megiddo.htm
Note the Kibbutz right beside the base.
Ramat David: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/ramat_david.htm
Note the Kibbutz right beside the base.
Atlit: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/atlit-port.htm
Haifa - RAFAEL: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/rafael.htm
Haifa - Kishon Port: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/haifa.htm
Ilaniya - Eilabun: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/eilabun.htm
Towns in Northern Israel Welcome Troops: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5640864
Weekend Edition Sunday, August 13, 2006 · Israeli troops report that fighting has been intense in Lebanon. But the soldiers get a brief respite as they camp in small towns along the Israeli border with Lebanon. The residents have opened their hearts and homes -- although that might mean a request to do the laundry.
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the US gets blamed, even though they are not directly involved and are earnestly trying to stop the hostilities
Total BS.
Israel flights challenge in court: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5273228.stm
Arms-carrying planes have refuelled at Prestwick Airport in Scotland
The British government is facing claims it "aided and abetted" violations of international law by allowing US arms flights to Israel to use UK airports.
How is arming Israel, not being involved? If it is "not directly involved", then stop all the whining about Iran and Syria...they're "not directly involved" either.
US Should Not Impose a Ceasefire Deadline on Israel - Heritage
US: Israel has a right to self-defense - Jerusalem Post
US: Israel Has Right to Defend Itself - FOX
Israel Has Right to Self-Defense, White House Says - US State Department
Bush calls Lebanon a front in terror war - CNN
Etc. Etc. Self-defense is one thing...the above excuses were given regarding Israel's rampage. The US green-lighted them and armed them. That is both being involved, and not calling for a cease-fire.
And I am tired of seeing the US blamed for everything bad in the world. They have their moments and good and bad moves like any other nation, but the middle eastern left wing theory of all their problems being caused by the US is so idiotic.
No, it's pretty simple. The Brits started the problem, and the US took over the Brits role, around WWII.
If the terrorists are so bent on the followings of their religion ..... why do they trash and go against everything that it stands for?
Islam allows to fight against opressors and injustice. Hezbollah is a socially liberal Muslim group and has committed itself to democracy. Hezbollah hasn't committed any real terrorism since 1999, when it was being brutally occupied and Lebanese and Palestinian refugees were being blatantly massacred. And, in fact, Israel was the one who started using terrorism during that period, first. They started using car bombs, in Lebanon, back in 72.
Listen to their words...does it sound like they believe they're on the offensive?
Osama:
You attacked us in Palestine, Somalia, Chechnya, Kashmir, Lebanon;
the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;
You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices;
Your forces occupy our countries;
You have starved the Muslims of Iraq;
With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque;
The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want;
The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us;
the American army is part of the American people;
The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us;
the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed;
Hamas:
killing people and children and removing our agricultural system -- this is terrorism;
attacking the Arabic and Islamic world whether in Afghanistan and Iraq and they are playing a dirty game in Lebanon, this is terrorism;
We do not have any feelings of animosity toward Jews. We do not wish to throw them into the sea. All we seek is to be given our land back, not to harm anybody;
We are not war seekers nor are we war initiators. We are not lovers of blood. We are not interested in a vicious cycle of violence. We are oppressed people with rights. If peace brings us our rights, then this is good;
the establishment of a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital with 1967 borders -- as well as agreements that would release prisoners;
If Israel declares that it will give the Palestinian people a state and give them back all their rights, then we are ready to recognize them;
Hezbollah:
Lebanon should first recover sovereignty over all its territories, without neglecting any;
Second, all Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails should be released;
Third, Lebanon has the right to ask for compensation for all the damages and harm which have resulted from Israeli aggressions against Lebanon during the past decades;
Furthermore, Lebanon has the right to ask for punishment of those Israeli officials who should be considered war criminals;
Any settlement that does not take into consideration the issue of the Palestinian refugees endangers the process and will prove to be a time bomb which can explode at any time;
However, let it be understood, that once that region is freed, Hezbollah will not exercise any security measures there. That is indisputable, because the region will be under the sovereignty of the Lebanese government.
Hezbollah is a resistance movement that aims at liberating the occupied territories and is not a substitute for the government.
If they stay in a piece of land that we consider to be Lebanese, we will persist in our resistance until it is freed;
When a peace agreement is concluded between the Lebanese government and Israel, we would surely disagree with the Lebanese government about that, but we would not make any turmoil out of it;
In truth, the most conspicuous examples of terrorism are the actions undertaken by Israel in occupying Palestine and other Arab territories, its aggression against peaceful civilians and civilian installations, its destruction of villages and water sources, and the tremendous damage which it aggressively inflicts. All of this is done under the full protection of the American administration and with its help in the form of funds, weapons and political support. Truly, this is the terrorism. We are involved in legitimate resistance which is fully justified. This is what all people do when their land is occupied.
Peace  | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 9:58:55 AM |
Hezbollah will not report the loss of 1500+ "jihadis" who have been eviscerated in this conflict
"I would like to tell you and tell the viewers that when a martyr falls, we inform his family and we then announce this. We do not hide our martyrs until the end of the battle. We have never done this. On the contrary, we always take pride in our martyrs." ~ Nasrallah
Peace | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? *
Posted: 8/22/2006 4:33:48 PM | It would be hard to have to live that way fitsoul. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to have to look over your shoulder when you walked down the street of your own hometown. I myself have been very lucky to have never had to have lived that way a great many in this forum topic are.
I do believe that hezbollah are terrorists and even after entering into lebanons political areana thats not likely to change. They I think haven't proved their worst yet. I think we will see worse things yet to come from them.
What is Hezbollah?
Hezbollah is a Lebanese umbrella organization of radical Islamic Shiite groups and organizations. It opposes the West, seeks to create a Muslim fundamentalist state modeled on Iran, and is a bitter foe of Israel. Hezbollah, whose name means “party of God,” is a terrorist group believed responsible for nearly 200 attacks since 1982 that have killed more than 800 people, according to the Terrorism Knowledge Base. Experts say Hezbollah is also a significant force in Lebanon’s politics and a major provider of social services, operating schools, hospitals, and agricultural services, for thousands of Lebanese Shiites. It also operates the al-Manar satellite television channel and broadcast station.
What are Hezbollah's origins?
Hezbollah was founded in 1982 in response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and subsumed members of the 1980s coalition of groups known as Islamic Jihad. It has close links to Iran and Syria.
Who are Hezbollah's leaders?
Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah is considered the group’s spiritual leader. Imad Fayez Mugniyah is considered the key planner of Hezbollah’s worldwide terrorist operations. During the Lebanese civil war in the 1970s, experts say Mugniyah trained with al-Fatah. When the Palestine Liberation Organization and al-Fatah were expelled from Lebanon by Israeli forces in 1982, Mugniyah joined the newly formed Hezbollah and quickly rose to a senior position in the organization. Hassan Nasrallah is Hezbollah’s senior political leader. Nasrallah was originally a military commander, but his military and religious credentials—he studied in centers of Shiite theology in Iran and Iraq—quickly elevated him to leadership within the group. Experts say he took advantage of rivalries within Hezbollah and the favor of the head of Iran’s theocratic government, Ayatollah Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini, to become the group’s secretary general in 1992, a position he still holds.
Where does Hezbollah operate?
Its base is in Lebanon’s Shiite-dominated areas, including parts of Beirut, southern Lebanon, and the Bekaa Valley. In addition, U.S. intelligence reports say that Hezbollah cells operate in Europe, Africa, South America, and North America. Despite Israel’s 2000 withdrawal from Lebanon, Hezbollah continues to periodically shell Israeli forces in the disputed Shebaa Farms border zone.
Hezbollah has also carried out attacks outside the Middle East. In his September 20, 2001, speech to Congress, President Bush pledged that the U.S.-led war on terror “will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped, and defeated.” Hezbollah’s cells outside the Middle East, its reported involvement in the January 2002 attempt to smuggle a boatload of arms to the Palestinian Authority, and its role in a pair of attacks in Argentina in the early 1990s, imply that it might meet the president’s definition, terrorism experts say. In June 2002, Singapore accused Hezbollah of recruiting Singaporeans in a failed 1990s plot to attack U.S. and Israeli ships in the Singapore Straits. Hezbollah was also among the few terrorist groups that President Bush mentioned by name in his January 2002 State of the Union address.
How big is Hezbollah?
Its core consists of several thousand militants and activists, the U.S. government estimates.
What major attacks is Hezbollah responsible for?
Hezbollah and its affiliates have planned or been linked to a lengthy series of terrorist attacks against the United States, Israel, and other Western targets. These attacks include:
a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s;
the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983;
the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the****it with a gun to his head;
two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).
a July 2006 raid on a border post in northern Israel in which two Israeli soldiers were taken captive. The abductions sparked an Israeli military campaign against Lebanon to which Hezbollah responded by firing rockets across the Lebanese border into Israel.
Does Hezbollah play an active role in the Lebanese politics?
Yes. After the 2005 elections, Hezbollah won fourteen seats in the 128-member Lebanese Parliament. In addition, Hezbollah has two ministers in the government, and a third is endorsed by the group.
Hezbollah did not disarm when it entered Lebanese politics, and experts say the group's new political involvement is not an indication that the group is becoming more moderate.
www.cfr.org | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? *
Posted: 8/22/2006 4:51:08 PM | I found this info on a human rights watch site pretty interesting considering above posts that only the lebanese are being harmed (not that it is a good thing that they are but its just like I said people on both sides get hurt)...
New York, August 5, 2006) – Hezbollah must immediately stop firing rockets into civilian areas in Israel, Human Rights Watch said today. Entering the fourth week of attacks, such rockets have claimed 30 civilian lives, including six children, and wounded hundreds more.
“Lobbing rockets blindly into civilian areas is without doubt a war crime,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “Nothing can justify this assault on the most fundamental standards for sparing civilians the hazards of war.”
Hezbollah claims that some of its attacks are aimed at military bases inside Israel, which are legitimate targets. But most of the attacks appear to have been directed at civilian areas and have hit pedestrians, hospitals, schools, homes and businesses.
Since July 12, when Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers and killed eight, Human Rights Watch researchers have been documenting the war’s impact on civilians in Israel and Lebanon, interviewing the witnesses and survivors of attacks, as well as doctors, emergency workers, police, military and government officials.
As of August 4, Hezbollah had launched a reported 2,500 rockets into predominantly civilian areas in northern Israel. Some longer-range rockets landed as far south as the city of Hadera, some 85 km from the border. Hezbollah announced that it had attacked Hadera on August 4 in retaliation for an Israeli air raid in Lebanon earlier that day that reportedly killed more than 20 farm workers.
Yesterday, Hezbollah’s leader, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, offered to stop bombing Israel’s “northern settlements” if the Israeli military stopped bombing Lebanon’s “cities and civilians.” He also warned that an Israeli attack on Beirut would result in Hezbollah bombing Tel Aviv.
CIVILIANS KILLED BY HEZBOLLAH ROCKETS JULY 12 - AUG 4
In a report issued on August 3, “Fatal Strikes: Israel’s Indiscriminate Attacks Against Civilians in Lebanon,” Human Rights Watch documented a systematic failure by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to distinguish between combatants and civilians. In some cases, the timing and intensity of the attack, the absence of a military target, as well as subsequent strikes on rescuers, suggest that Israeli forces deliberately targeted civilians. Yesterday, Israeli bombing reportedly killed at least 40 civilians in Lebanon.
“Human Rights Watch has documented the Israeli military’s persistent use of indiscriminate force, which has killed hundreds of Lebanese civilians,” Roth said. “But war crimes by one side in a conflict never justify war crimes by another. Hezbollah must stop using the excuse of Israeli misconduct to justify its own.”
Northern Israel, an area populated by about one 1 million people, has come to a virtual standstill because of Hezbollah’s rockets, which are exacting an enormous human and economic toll. Authorities believe that up to half the population has left the area, while the rest are living in constant fear of the air raid sirens that warn of attacks.
Human Rights Watch said many of those who remain in northern Israel are unable to leave because they don’t have relatives elsewhere in the country or the resources to pay for alternative accommodation. Some stay behind to care for relatives who are disabled or infirm, or because they work as emergency and medical personnel.
“Who is left here in Kiryat Shmona; the weakest part of the population,” Shimon Kamari, the deputy mayor of Kiryat Shmona, only a few kilometers from the northern border, told Human Rights Watch. “The elderly and those who can’t afford hotels, because to stay for such a long time is very expensive.”
Hezbollah has fired three different types of weapons at Israel so far. The vast majority are 122mm Katyusha rockets, while 220mm Fajr rockets have landed in the cities of Haifa and Nazareth. Hezbollah has also fired several 302mm Khaiber-1 rockets; the first of these landed on July 28 in empty areas near Afula, 50 km south of the border, and another wave hit near Hadera on August 4. In addition, Hezbollah said it had fired Khaiber-1 rockets at Beit Shean on August 2.
Some of the rockets, such as those that killed eight rail workers in Haifa on July 16 and two young brothers in Nazareth on July 19, have warheads packed with thousands of metal ball bearings that spray out from the blast. Launched on civilian areas, the ball bearings are intended to inflict maximum harm.
Under international humanitarian law – also known as the laws of war – parties to an armed conflict must not make the civilian population the object of attack, or fire indiscriminately into civilian areas. Nor can they launch attacks that they know will cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects that exceeds the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. Such attacks constitute war crimes.
Latest Victims
In attacks on August 4, Hezbollah reportedly fired more than 200 rockets, killing three people. According to media reports, two men, aged 24 and 32, died and several were wounded when a rocket hit a restaurant in the Druze village of Majdal Krum. In another strike, a 27-year-old mother of two, Manal Azem, died around 2:15 p.m. when a rocket struck in the Druze village of Mrar. One and a half weeks ago, a 15-year-old girl, Daa Abbas, also died in Mrar when a rocket hit her home.
On August 3, eight people died in two rocket attacks. In one attack in Acre, five people died: Shimon Zaribi, 44; his 15-year-old daughter Mazal; Albert Ben-Abu, 41; Ariyeh Tamam, 50; and Ariyeh’s brother Tiran, 39.
Human Rights Watch interviewed Ariyeh Tamam’s wife, Tzvia, who was wounded in the attack. She told Human Rights Watch how the rocket killed her husband and brother-in-law, and wounded her sister-in-law, Simcha, and her eight-year-old daughter, Noa:
It destroyed our entire family. My husband is dead; his brother is dead; their sister is in a lot of pain. My disabled mother-in-law is devastated – Simcha also used to be her main caregiver. The kids are traumatized forever.
We don’t have a bomb shelter in our building, so when the sirens started, we went to the shelter in my aunt’s building on Ben Shushan Street. After the first rocket fell, and the siren stopped, we went out of the shelter to have a look. My daughter was standing near me, at the entrance, but Ariyeh went closer to the street. Suddenly, there was another loud boom and pieces of metal flew everywhere. I didn’t realize what had happened to me, but I rushed to the place where my husband was standing – all five people who were standing near the fence there were killed. There was blood everywhere; I tried to drag him away, and was screaming, ‘Don’t die; please don’t die!’ My son threw himself over his body, and was also screaming, ‘Daddy, daddy, don’t die!’ Then the police and the ambulances came, and took us all to the hospital.
In another attack that day, three Palestinian-Arab Israeli youths from the village of Tarshiha lost their lives: Shnati Shnati, 21; Amir Naeem, 18; and Muhammad Faour, 17. During the attack, another rocket hit a house in the nearby village of Meila. A woman, Maha Morani, whose 2-year-old daughter Nura was wounded in the attack, told Human Rights Watch:
It was around 3.30 pm yesterday. It was the first time the rocket fell on our village. We live on the third floor in a three-floor apartment building. We left kids at home and went out just for a few minutes to buy some food. My daughter was sleeping in her room in a cradle, and our son was in the living room. Suddenly, the siren went off, and my husband – I don’t know how he felt it – tore at full speed to the house, and just flew up the stairs to the room where Nura was sleeping. He grabbed her and rushed down, and just a minute after they left the house, the rocket hit straight into the room where Nura had been sleeping. She was injured in the eye by pieces of concrete that flew all around. Thank God, our son was in another room, so he was not injured physically, but he was in shock. Since the attack he has not talked at all, not a single word.
Hits on Hospitals
Several medical and educational institutes have sustained damage from Katyusha attacks. Human Rights Watch researchers visited hospitals in Nahariya and Safed after they were hit.
At Nahariya Hospital, rockets had been landing near the hospital since July 12, the hospital spokesperson said. On July 28, a rocket landed directly on the fourth floor, where the ophthalmology department is located, leaving a gaping hole in the wall and destroying eight rooms with beds and medical equipment. According to the spokesperson, the department usually held 20 to 30 patients, but officials had moved patients from the top floors to basement rooms since the start of the conflict. “Otherwise it’s hard to believe anyone would have survived the attack,” the spokesperson said. He estimated the damage to the hospital at about $200,000.
“There are no military bases around here; nothing military at all,” he said. “I believe they know perfectly well they are firing at a hospital.”
On July 17, around 11 p.m., a rocket landed just outside the Safed Hospital. According to the hospital’s head of security, the impact of the blast shattered windows in more than 50 rooms on the hospital’s north side and destroyed the external water and gas pipes.
A patient in the hospital at the time, Roni Peri, 37, told Human Rights Watch what happened when the rocket hit:
Several of us had just gone out to the balcony on our floor. We heard a siren and tried to get back in, but it came too fast. The rocket hit the wall below, and I saw a huge yellow flash and glass flying. I could see, hear and feel the explosion. I was thrown by the explosion to the other side of the balcony and both my legs and arms were cut from the glass. There was a boy in a wheelchair who was in the hospital because he was injured in a previous rocket strike. We had taken him outside with us to try and cheer him up, and he was badly hurt in the head by glass. He hasn’t spoken since it happened.
In the absence of troops or military assets inside, hospitals must never be attacked, Human Rights Watch said. Deliberately attacking them is a war crime.
Hits on Homes
Rockets have hit homes in many northern towns, although in most cases witnesses or security officials told Human Rights Watch that the inhabitants were not home at the time.
In Nahariya, Moshe Zamir, 56, witnessed a rocket strike on his neighbor’s house on July 18. “Around 6 p.m., I went outside to sit on my front porch,” he said. “All of a sudden, I heard a huge boom, and I quickly crouched down on the ground. I saw debris flying all over the place and I ran back inside my house.” The missile hit the house of the Akuka family, Zamir’s neighbors, who had already left town, he said.
Malka Karasanti, 70, was injured when a rocket destroyed the top two floors of her three-story apartment building in Haifa on July 17. She told Human Rights Watch:
I was taking a nap in my apartment on the second floor when, around 2:30 p.m., I heard a siren go off. I went to the bathroom, which I use as my safe room since there is no shelter in the building. There was a loud boom, and then everything began to collapse around me. … I was injured in my right shoulder bone, I broke a left rib, and I have a tear in my eardrum so I don’t hear well now.
Hits on Businesses
Hezbollah rockets have hit a number of workplaces directly and have taken a heavy economic toll on agriculture, tourism, industry and small businesses in northern Israel. Many businesses in the north have either dramatically scaled back their work or have closed entirely due to ongoing attacks.
The most serious attack took place on July 16, when a rocket slammed into a train depot in Haifa, killing eight workers and wounding 12. Human Rights Watch interviewed four railway workers at Haifa’s Rambam Hospital who were wounded by ball bearings from the lethal blast.
“There were three loud booms, and I started running out of the depot,” said Alek Vensbaum, 61, a worker at the Israel Train Authority. “One of the guys, Nissim, who was later killed, yelled at everyone to run to the shelter. The fourth boom got me when I was nearly at the door, and I was hit by shrapnel. ... I was hit by ball bearing-like pieces of metal in my neck, hand, stomach and foot.”
Sami Raz, 39, a railway electrician, said a ball bearing pierced his lung and lodged near his heart. “I had terrible difficulty breathing after I was hit,” he said.
On July 23, a Hezbollah rocket hit a carpentry shop in Kiryat Ata owned by David Siboni, killing one worker named Habib Awad. Siboni, 60, told Human Rights Watch:
I've had this business for 30 years. Despite the situation, I decided to keep my shop open, just for fewer hours and with fewer workers. This morning I was in my office upstairs when I heard the siren go off. There were eight other workers in the shop and I yelled at them to run to the safe room. I didn't think I had time to get downstairs, so I stayed up in my office and suddenly the rocket hit us directly. Habib had apparently just peeked out the door of the safe room to make sure everyone was in, and the blast got him. I think all the injuries were internal, you couldn't see any damage from the outside.
On July 19, a rocket hit a car garage in Nazareth owned for the past 35 years by Ased Abu Naja Ased. The direct hit destroyed the garage, the office with computers, diagnostic machines, several cars being serviced in the shop and three new cars for sale that had arrived that day. Abu Naja said that the attack thankfully took place on Wednesday, the one day of the week when the garage closed early. Otherwise, at least 20 workers would have been in the garage.
Shelters
Human Rights Watch researchers visited six bomb shelters in Haifa and Nahariya where many local residents have spent days and nights since the conflict began. Most of the shelters were stifling hot and overcrowded with insufficient facilities for the number of people they are meant to serve.
Sitting in a shelter in Nahariya, Rosa Guttmann, 52, told Human Rights Watch how difficult it was for older residents. “The access for the elderly is hard with all the stairs,” she said. “It is very difficult for them to quickly climb down into the shelter and later to get back out. The shelters are cramped and there isn’t enough room for everyone.”
Another woman in the same shelter told Human Rights Watch:
We are in the shelter all the time, since the day things started. We only leave when the emergency services announce on the loudspeaker that we can go out. Sometimes we stay at the shelter during the day and go home to sleep at night. Yesterday we went home at around midnight to sleep but around 2 a.m. rockets started falling and at 5 a.m. we’d had enough, and returned to the shelter. We need more mattresses for everyone to sleep here. It is especially hard for the children. They are bored and they are scared.
On July 18, a Hezbollah rocket killed Andrei Zlanski, 37, just outside a bomb shelter in Nahariya. Human Rights Watch researchers arrived on the scene just after the attack and spoke with Eliav Sian, 34, a witness to the attack:
The guy put his wife and child into the bomb shelter and then went out, I’m not sure why. There was no siren at the time, just a general warning to enter and stay in the shelters. I was standing near the entrance of the shelter and the guy was just a few meters away. All of a sudden I heard a whistling sound, and quickly ran back inside. The guy didn’t make it and was killed instantly by the missile.
Zlanski, Human Rights Watch later learned, had stepped out of the shelter to get a blanket for his daughter. “There used to be about 70 people in the shelter but after he was killed many people left town, especially those with kids,” said Yoav Zalgan, 35, a single man who remained in the shelter. “And now 30 people are usually here.”
http://hrw.org | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 5:24:10 PM | | I can't help it... I keep hearing/seeing this little girl and her heart wrenching screams as she watched her parents and siblings get killed while having a picnic at a Gaza Beach. This was mid-June. There was an international uproar... until something like surging oil prices took over the headlines. July 12 - the taking of the soldiers is when the WAR was said to have begun. If it were my family lunching at the beach.. I would have thought the war was started in Mid-June. It can't continue to always be the lopsided validation. Check out the maps and you tell me if it doesn't look a lot like what happened to our American Indians. Taking from Peter to pay Paul. Well, Paul's got some trouble because he breaks plenty of rules and the rulemakers look away because Paul has got a powerful godfather - they call him Uncle Sam. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 5:54:02 PM | Lobbing rockets blindly into civilian areas is without doubt a war crime
maybe if the us were to supply hezbollah with laser guided missiles, f16 or 18 and plenty of shrapnel bombs ( very effective against civilians ) and ammo like they do to israel, they may be willing in exchange to direct their fire only against the israeli army. the israeli army does not even have that excuse with their high tech arms supplied by generous uncle sam. israel willingly bombed cities and buildings full of civilians for maximum damages.
both killed civilians and both should be held responsible for their actions but one of them could have targeted only hezbollah since the mossad, that all-knowing spy agency, and sattelite imaging...could tell the israeli army where hezbollah were hiding. in the end, the party with arms from the 50's killed fewer civilians and more soldiers than the party with the high tech weaponry.
maybe someone can illustrate what happened with a table to see who killed who and how many......... | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?*
Posted: 8/22/2006 5:56:03 PM | I can't believe when Israelis and Americans say "soldiers were kidnapped" like soldiers are common people and kidnapped by some armed men. They also call it a "terrorist attack" on soldiers. Funny. So there can be people who can terrorise soldiers who have weapons and training to fight and defend the country? Well then those soldiers should go home to their moms. Israel wants peace I Don't think so, how can she like peace when she has occupied lands from every neighbour she has? Why would Palestinians kill themselves to kill Israelis? I think they have been occupied and humiliated, terrorized and have no rights for the last 40 years. Don’t occupy other people’s lands. Don’t harm other people. Then you can ask for peace and protection otherwise you r not serious about living in peace. How come every time Israel attacks some place or kills civilians it is said Israel was provoked. The killing of seven people on Gaza beach most of them children was not a provocation for Hamas to break its ceasefire promise, but the abduction of Israel’s one soldier is a provocation. Which resulted in collective punishment of Palestinian civilians? Killed so many and “kidnapped” the Palestinian parliament members who are still in prisons without any charges. Shameful face of Israeli courts. The thousands Labanese in Israeli prisons which nobody ever cared about, is not a provocation for Hizbullah to abduct Israeli soldiers for prisnors exchange, The bombing of Berute Airport is not the provocation of Hezbollah firing rockets on Israel? It makes me feel so bad when people support the shameful war crimes of Israel giving stupid reasons for that, twisting the facts and lying. Americans ask "why do they hate us” well when the Lebanese civilians were dying because of American bombs they wont Love you.
The bottom line is Israel cannot be in peace and secure when her neighbours are not secure from the terror of Israel. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 6:00:51 PM | I would say if Islam taught terrorism or violence then as we know there are more than 1.20 billion Muslims in this world. The world would have become fire ball long time ago. If Islam taught to kill all "non-believers" then we would have 100% Muslim population in each Muslim country. Because all other people would have been killed, I am a student of history. We see Jews and Christians were protected in real Islamic societies. Which we don't have nowadays. Just remember when Jerusalem was first conquered by Muslims. During the time of Caliph Omar. How peaceful that transfer of power was? Later conquered by the Crusaders. We know what they did there. When it was again conquered by Saladin he didn’t take revenge from anyone. Jews were protected until the Ottoman Empire. This all bloodshed started after First World War when Ottomans lost the war.
The current terrorism or violence has started from American sponsored Afghan Jihad. Al-Qaida was trained armed and financially sponsored by CIA and MOSSAD with the help of ISI (Pakistan’s military intelligence). What I see all the Al-Qaeda operations ended up to benefit US. They brought US in Afghanistan; Bin Ladin gave speeches like he was involved in Iraq and gave US another reason to attack Iraq. He also acknowledges that he wanted Bush to win the election, that’s why his video came just before the elections. Al-Qaeda is now in Pakistan. Let’s see when will the time come when US land in Pakistan. Educated Muslims believe Bin Ladin is the neocons member in the field. They are all one. I would suggest people who remark against Islam should study it before making a point so your point can be stronger. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 6:24:26 PM | Correction. Hezbollah was formed in 1982/3 after the Isaraeli invasion of Lebanon, in which the IDF attempted to destroy the PLO for once and for all. Hezbollah consists of Lebanese Shi'ites who became angry at the scorched earth policy of the IDF. Talk about the principle of unexpected consequences. The Israelis got rid of the PLO and in return got Hezbollah. Read Tom Friedman's book from Beirut to Jerusalem for the gory, accurate details. He was there.
Trivia question: Part 1: Who told the Hezbollah fighters to launch rockets on Israeli civilian targets? Pt. 2: Who told George W. Bush to invade Iraq? Hint: It was the same guy, and it wasn't****ead Cheney(hehehehehehehehe) | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?*
Posted: 8/22/2006 7:01:07 PM | I just spent the last little while reading through the posts in this forum.
My gut reaction, that comes from my heart, is I feel saddened to read the amount of hatred that I have read here.
There is so much energy around this subject: Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing is the right thing?
Imagine if we pooled our energy to look towards a more positive future rather than replaying a past of hatred. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/22/2006 7:18:52 PM | The whole debate is meaningless.
We are talking about right, and fair........... In a war fer crissakes!
right wrong, and fair are all productsof hollywood wars, not real wars.
Israel is fighting a war of survival and has been fro fifty years.
And none of the Palestinian groups have polices of a Palestine AND and Israel. Thats the real problem.
Policies of driving the Isrealies into the sea are exactly the same policies of genocide that Hitler was into sixty years ago.
So of course Isrrel is going to committ war crimes to survive. Are you surprised? | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?*
Posted: 8/22/2006 7:21:06 PM | What to do about the violence?
I say make each side pay a stiff financial penalty for every civilian that is killed or injured. If, say, a million dollars in aid was recinded for each civilian killed, and half a million for each one injured plus the costs of medical care, the fighters on both sides would soon find ways to target only combatants. If one million isn't enough of disincentive, make it two, three, or whatever it takes.
Some of that money should go directly to the families of those who are killed or hurt. The rest can go toward reparations for property that has been damaged. Kill a civilian, and not only do you not get the money, it goes to the family of the civilian you've killed.
Anyone who wants to continue recklessly fighting under those conditions will do so, but the governments on both sides will soon have to start counting the cost.
All the best,
Robert | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/23/2006 10:47:11 AM | Israel is fighting a war of survival and has been fro fifty years. I disagree. Stealing and colonizing land has nothing to do with survival unless you view "survival" as dominating a land to the point that it eventually drives the previous inhabitants off and kills their will or ability to live there.
Sounds like "wild west" stuff. Big landowners driving off the small landowners ... making their lives miserable ... making it impossible to maintain themselves ... then just annexing their land as they throw up their hands in disgust and leave.
Only in this case, the Israeli's have just gone in and driven the people out ... committing genocide and bulldozing their homes ... then turn around and build exclusive posh Jewish settlements on that same land deemed uninhabitable (because it's a "military buffer zone"). Oh wait ... that is "wild west" stuff!
Hmmmm ........
OT: Sometimes ... we just have to stand up for injustice ...
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/23/2006 6:34:32 PM | Policies of driving the Isrealies into the sea are exactly the same policies of genocide that Hitler was into sixty years ago.
we came full circle. the abused became the abuser.
israel is no longer fighting for survival. it's secure within its own borders once it decides which borders to adopt. the only reason for the present insecurity is because israel, with the us encouragement for the last 30 years, does not want well defined borders. it wants the whole pie for itself and it's ready and eager to kill every palestinian to achieve that purpose. in other words, it's committing a genocide against the palestinians.
so in a sense, israel has become a nazi state in the hitlerian tradition. it is willingly and systematically exterminating palestinians for the sole reason that they are palestinians. in nazi germany, jews lost their lives, businesses, houses and all their belonging and in nazi israel palestinians are going thru the same process.they are parked in gaza and the west bank and reduced to starvation, humiliation and slow but certain death. their houses are bulldozed........
In fact,in many ways, israel has improved on the nazis. it is doing it without gas ovens and without building huge concentration camps that require too much logistical effort. but it's committing genocide all the same. and gaza and the west bank are no different than the well known nazis concentration camps.
israel has become hitlerian.
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/23/2006 6:47:22 PM | I just have a quick question for cotter and epsiolonbj while you are on Israel vs. Palestine.
Do you two not pay any attention whatsoever to Hamas, Hamas' political statements and officially stated desires?
Did you not pay any attention whatsoever to the PLO's political statements and officially stated desires (prior to 1988)? | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 371 | |
| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/23/2006 7:01:10 PM |
Do you two not pay any attention whatsoever to Hamas, Hamas' political statements and officially stated desires?
Did you not pay any attention whatsoever to the PLO's political statements and officially stated desires (prior to 1988)?
Which statements, at what time and what official translation? | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/23/2006 7:12:29 PM |
I just have a quick question for cotter and epsiolonbj while you are on Israel vs. Palestine.
Do you two not pay any attention whatsoever to Hamas, Hamas' political statements and officially stated desires?
Did you not pay any attention whatsoever to the PLO's political statements and officially stated desires (prior to 1988)?
I do. Even arafat changed his position publicly and was quite willing to go from 50% of the land to 25% provided the palestinians were allowed to have their own state. not a sub state of israel. a true independent palestinian state.
for hamas, same thing. everytime a palestinian political party try to moderate its position, isreal comes up with bulldozers and kidnapping of palestinian political leadership to prevent any progress because again israel wants the whole pie for itself.
and just so you know, if palestinians were doing to israelis what israel is doing to them, I would be here defending israelis. right now my voice is with the palestinians because they are facing a genocide.
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/23/2006 7:32:35 PM |
for hamas, same thing. everytime a palestinian political party try to moderate its position, isreal comes up with bulldozers and kidnapping of palestinian political leadership to prevent any progress because again israel wants the whole pie for itself.
and just so you know, if palestinians were doing to israelis what israel is doing to them, I would be here defending israelis. right now my voice is with the palestinians because they are facing a genocide.
Bingo.
If the situation were reversed, the U.S. would have invaded and "liberated" years ago. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/23/2006 9:07:38 PM |
I just have a quick question for cotter and epsiolonbj while you are on Israel vs. Palestine.
Do you two not pay any attention whatsoever to Hamas, Hamas' political statements and officially stated desires?
Did you not pay any attention whatsoever to the PLO's political statements and officially stated desires (prior to 1988)? All my life ... as far back as I can remember ... I have despised human indignities ... inhumanities ... suppression ... oppression ... needless killing ... genocide ...
I hold even more contempt for any government that underwrites it ... supports it ... promotes it ... endorses it ... sponsors it ... upholds it. ANY GOVERNMENT ... even if it's my own!
If the roles were reveresed ... I'd be right there for the Israeli's. I was abhorred by what I saw in Dachau ... a famous death camp in Southern Germany. I found what went on there loathsome ... detestable. I have Jewish friends in Germany who personally went through the Holocaust ... so I do know about that ... maybe a lot more than you realize.
My life is not entirely void of life experience ... life outside of the the "warm, cozy, fuzzy" USA. I know what's it's like to be discriminated against (within the US) ... I know what it's like to be the only "American" in a small German town where they basically despise the "Americans and what they represent" (related to their habits of littering and being so uncouth and their general disrespect for foreign cultures).
I also happen to have a lot of experience working with the refugee population in the USA ... with a very diverse religious background representing ... Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism as well as the many forms of Christianity. My clients are ill, poor, battered by their life experiences, their life journeys, victims of horrible regimes that have reigned over them with hate ... some are here because they have barely escaped with their lives.
I had a Vietnamese client who was supposed to be evacuated when the US left there. Her husband had been working closely with the Americans ... a Vietnamese officer helping our troops when he was killed. The Viet Cong had targeted her many times ... even smacked her unconscious with the butt of gun upside her head in front of her children.
She stood outside the gates of the American Embassy with her papers in hand and her three small children as the last helicopter took off ... there was no more room for her because they had been evacuating people with and "without" papers and someone else had gotten her seats.
She stepped back and gathered her children and tore up the papers knowing that having them in her possession meant certain death and began an 8 year journey ... living on the streets, begging for food and medical help for her children as she made her way to Thailand where she was finally able to convince the authorities that she in fact was entitled to be in the USA because her husband gave his life for our soldiers. I was her home health nurse.
Perhaps some may have the wrong idea about me. I am not without compassion ... or common sense.
What we do for ourselves dies with us ... what we do for the world remains and is immortal. (Author unknown) | |
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