| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 8:41:27 AM | | ^^ Take some history listens first to find out how the land was stolen from Palestinians and were given to Israel at first. | |
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| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 9:01:01 AM | we have a so called peace agreement...yet Hezbolla refuses to dis arm...Israe; should go back in and really get nasty this time...stop dinkin around...put an end to Hezbolla.
The most worthless thing on the planet is the damn UN...disban the **stards..kick them out of New York...and let nations work out their own problems...If war is the answer....so be it. | |
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| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 9:17:06 AM | Look passionteman....
If your being picked on by a bully...the best thing to do is bust him in the mouth...
Stand up and fight...diplomacy is a joke when all they want is to beat your ass...
There is no need for the UN...talk about corrupt! Israel has every right to defend itself and should at all cost.
People are crying about the civilians in Lebanon being killed...look at the history of Israel HOW MANY OF THEIR CIVILIANS have been killed over the years from the enimies that surround them? Israel has the right to fight and destroy any aggressor. I am all for a full blown invasion into Lebanon...Force the Lebonese governmet to rid itself of the terrorist group that is Hezbolla...or be destroyed.... | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 9:24:29 AM | If anyone is silly enough to think that this 'war' began with the abduction of 2 soldiers, an all out war against Lebanon had been in the planning stages well before July 12.
psssssst ...
Go to the Pentagon. Talk to their military planners, and I guarentee you will find the following:
- Plans for the invasion of Iran
- Plans for the invasion of North Korea
- Plans for the invasion of China
- Plans for the invasion of Mexico
- Plans for the invasion of Canada
- Plans for the invasion of Jamaica
- Plans for the invasion of Cuba
- Plans for the invasion of Upper Volta
- Plans for the defence of the USA if attacked by Canada
- Plans for the defence of the USA if attacked by Mexico
- Plans for the defence of the USA if attacked by Cuba
- Plans for the defence of the USA if attacked by Upper Volta
That's what military planners DO. They plan, so they can be ready for any contigency
Canada has a department in NDHQ that does the same
So does England, Germany, Upper Volta, Spain, China ... and Israel
Knowing that Israel had/has plans for invading Lebanon is proof of exactly NOTHING, except that its military planners are doing their job.
Oh, and one other thing ..... if this WAS an "all out war" against Lebanon, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because Lebanon would have ceased to exist by now. | |
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| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 9:43:18 AM |
If your being picked on by a bully...the best thing to do is bust him in the mouth...
Stand up and fight...diplomacy is a joke when all they want is to beat your ass...
There is no need for the UN...talk about corrupt! Israel has every right to defend itself and should at all cost.
When it comes to Iraq and people stand up and fight you guys, they are labelled insurgents and terrorists. But if Israel does that, then it is fine. 
Israel is the one who has invaded part of their land. Hezbollah hasn't even entered their terroritory.
Israel has the right to fight and destroy any aggressor. I am all for a full blown invasion into Lebanon...Force the Lebonese governmet to rid itself of the terrorist group that is Hezbolla...or be destroyed....
Okay enough said here. You guys went to Afghanistan and haven't been able to do anything AT ALL. Then went to Iraq and haven't been able to do anything at all. Three years and couldn't even bring peace in the green zone. Then supported Israel and a little organization called Hezbollah beat the crap out of you guys. Time to pack up and leave and let all countries do their own things. Sto interferring in other people's affairs. | |
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| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 9:49:15 AM | | ^Hezbollah didn't go to Israel because they couldn't. They sent instant messages though...or did you not hear about the rockets they fired ? | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 10:58:51 AM | When American Army was liberating Europe of Nazis and bombed Germany, did anybody
in America call it genoside? Of course not. And I am sure a lot of German women and children were killed in the process but that comes with the territory. Germany made it's own bed by killing so many people and supporting a psycho like Hitler. Sometimes defence takes to
be on offencive. Jews have the right to live on the land where they lived since Biblical times.
Jews were not warned when suicide bomners were blowing themselves up killing Jewish women and children. They have the right to defend themselves in any way that will do the job.
If hezbollah had atom bombs or even the weapons Israel has, they would't think for a minute
about Jewish women and children and would blowl them all to shreds and would feel proud of it. Soem "freedom fighters". | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 11:03:01 AM | " They already fought that fight. Smallpox and other diseases so reduced their numbers that uprising was impossible. They were nearly exterminated. Like the Palestinians, they have been herded onto reservations. But at least they are not being killed and harassed daily as are the Palestinians."
Well, Indians don't blow themselves out amng innicent people. Palestinians do. | |
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| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 12:23:49 PM | @cleopatracutie ...
... so how is it that the israeli people are seen to be so evil for defending whats rightfully their own? If in fact they are only defending what is rightfully their own ... no problem. But that is not what has been going on. With the help of the USA ... for years and years ... they have been slowly capturing and confiscating land that does not belong to them.
They started out with 55% of the land there. The Palestinians were given 45% of the land (even though they represented 70% of the population back then). Israel is now occupying up to 78% of the land. They have illegally confiscated and captured an additional 23% of the land there that is not rightfully theirs. That is viewed as "evil".
The world was always led to believe it was done in defense when in fact they now know it wasn't. Our news has been filtered ... biased reports would lead us to believe one thing when in fact the other is the true story. Look for the truth somewhere in the middle of reports you will see from both sides.
Israel is nothing but a pawn in the big picture. They are being used as a means to an end. If you follow the money ... who is supplying them, urging them on to do as they do ... there you will find the truth of what is really going on. It's what lies under the mask that you need to look at.
If you lived in a house for twenty thirty fourty years would you simply give it up because someone else said "Hey that house is really my house not yours so get out?". Thats exactly what groups like hezbollah want the israeli people to do and that is in my eyes a big stinking load of bull dung in a mountainous heap. …………. It would be like building a house for your family to be happy in then standing back while someone who disagreed that you owned it set fire to it. Why is this so hard for you to accept when it’s an Israeli home but you condone it when the Israeli’s are doing the same thing to the Lebanese people.
Israel has been doing this to the Lebanese people for over 50 years. They have been going in and bulldozing their homes on their own land … they drive the people off and just outright steal the land and then build exclusive Jewish settlements on it.
Why should they leave their nation to a bunch of terrorists and radical islamist groups? No one is calling for this. The Lebanese just want their land back. They want what is rightfully theirs.
Israel has every right to protect their interests and keep extreamists from reaking havock on it. You are absolutely right … but first they need to pull out of the illegally occupied areas, go back to what is truly rightfully theirs. There are many Israeli citizens who are disgusted about what their government is doing … many who object to the stealing of the Lebanese land … the killing of the Lebanese people (better known as genocide). There are many Israeli Journalists, Scholars, Rabbi's, citizens who outright oppose Zionism to "the concept of creating 'Israel' by the use of force and violence, by stealing the Arabs’ lands and killing Palestinians".
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 12:44:31 PM |
The same paradigm that you apply over Israel of national defence, killing those before they kill you...
Is the same paradgim that can be applied to the Palestinians.
Palestinians do not occupy Israel. Israel occupies Palestine in contravention of international law, UN resolutions and the world community. As a people, the Palestinians are defending themselve against an occupying force that murders, kidnaps, intimidates, denies rights to, applies economic sanctions and denies access to humanitarian aid.
To date, all that Israel has been asked to do, and which they steadfastly refuse to do is negotiate a process in which these occupied lands are given back to the Palestinians. Lands that Israel occupies illegally and with much force. I read of many comparisons to native land rights on these forums, which is hilarious considering that natives have rights and supports in place. Their situation is far from the Israel/Palestine and to draw such comparisons shows a huge lack of knowledge on the part of the person who is doing the comparison.
If you feel a need, Diamondfrogg, to defend a people who commit atrocities on a population, citing 'national defence', you, yourself are supporting and maintaining these atrocities at least peripherally. If instead you took time to understand both sides of the conflict, perhaps you could lend your voice to the clamour that is building for a negotiated settlement regarding Palestine. The world recognizes the indecency in which Palestinians are forced to live...you yourself would be fighting mad if you were forced to live in the same circumstances.
Come out of hiding in your little corner of Texas, take a brave step, and start reading more about the issue and caring about people on either side of the conflict. After all, sweety pie...that's what you're commanded to do from on high.
Peacenik? Guess so, eh? Then again...
I always enjoy being on the side of peace...putting effort into understanding and negoitating...makes a heck of a more impact than maiming and murdering. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 2:34:36 PM | @soulmate4you ...
Here is something for you to see ... take a look at it. My intention is not to change your mind ... but to enlighten you. I have noted the thread and the message in case you are interested in that thread as well.
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/4760875datingPostpage11.aspxMessage 265 Jews Against Zionism: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ Neturei Karta: http://www.nkusa.org/ Jews Not Zionists: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ Not In My Name: http://www.nimn.org/ European Jews for a Just Peace: http://www.ejjp.org/ Jewish Voice For Peace: http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ Jews for Justice for Palestinians: http://www.jfjfp.org/ Jews For A Just Peace, NC: http://www.jfajpnc.org/ Bat Shalom: http://www.batshalom.org/ Courage To Refuse: http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions: http://www.icahd.org/eng/ Rabbis For Human Rights: http://www.rhr.israel.net/ Jewish Peace Fellowship: http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/ http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp Have you seen this? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696 BTW, the director of this film (Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land), Bathsheba Ratzkoff, is a Jewish Israeli-American. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 2:38:33 PM |
Here is something for you to see ... take a look at it. My intention is not to change your mind ... but to enlighten you. I have noted the thread and the message in case you are interested in that thread as well.
Interesting.
Jews that support your position are proof that Israel is wrong.
But jews that don't are proof that jews are geoncidial maniacs?
Funny how that works, isn't it? | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 2:49:53 PM | Cotter,
I am all for peace too. I am liberal and hate wars. I don't like what Americans are doing in Iraq but lets face it, hesbolah won't give up until all Jews end up in the Red Sea. They hate Jews and they don't want peace. I am convinced that if they stopped targeting Jews and blowing themselves up among innocent civilian Jewish people, Israel wouldn't target the Palestinians.
Israeli people want peace as much as any other nation if not more. Do you think they want
to live this way? Fear makes people desperate to defend themselves and there has been plenty of it after all the suicide bombings. Jews have the right to live on their own land like anybody else but have never been accepted by Arab nations. Have you read Exodus?
I read it when I was 12, right after 6 day war and it made a big iimpression on me. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 3:08:10 PM |
The west is alone in the middle east except for Israel. None of those cutthroat countries can be trusted, bought or not.
So what is the West doing in the East in the first place? Of course they are alone and unwelcome. Would you welcome Muslim military bases in your neighborhood, bombs and rockets leveling your town, killing your family and daily terror? They should no more be over there than the ill-fated Crusaders, whom the Muslims have never forgotten. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 3:11:41 PM |
Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
They are certainly doing the right thing now...helping the survivors of the Israeli massacre to get re-established and taken care of. Hezbollah are Lebanese Resistance Fighters who live in the area they defend. They have normal jobs in normal times. | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 3:18:48 PM | To some of the posts here...one gets the impression that most of those who post here are pro-hezbolla. Your mind set is askew and needs adjusting.
If the US was not on the side of Israel...the Arab terrorists would have wiped them out by now. Thank goodness the US and Israel are allies. I wish that Israel would just totally obliterate the damn Hezbolla TERRORISTS! Go full bore into Lebanon...force the government to deal with the TERRORISTS they are SUPPORTING. Get rid of the worthless UN...and get down to business..... | |
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| Famous Jewish suicide "bomber"
Posted: 8/17/2006 3:23:47 PM | The first and most famous "suicide bomber" in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was the ancient Samson, a Hebrew guerilla fighter who attacked civilians as well as military targets. When he was captured and blinded, he was put to work turning a gristmill and suffering all the humiliation that present day Palestinians have to take every day in Occupied Palestine.
Samson decided that death was better than this and waited for a chance to take out as many Philistines, civilian or otherwise as he could in the process. On a Philistine Holy day, he was brought out to the temple of Dagon to make fun of, led by a little boy, so there were children present. According to the story, he toppled the key pillars of the temple and killed more in that day than he had slaughtered in the entire course of his murderous career. Of course he crushed himself in the process.
Yet this suicide terrorist is celebrated as a Jewish hero, while Palestinians who do basically the same are reviled as terrorists. Good for the goose, good for the gander. Which are they? | |
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| Peace without justice is impossible
Posted: 8/17/2006 3:38:04 PM |
To some of the posts here...one gets the impression that most of those who post here are pro-hezbolla. Your mind set is askew and needs adjusting.
If the US was not on the side of Israel...the Arab terrorists would have wiped them out by now. Thank goodness the US and Israel are allies. I wish that Israel would just totally obliterate the damn Hezbolla TERRORISTS! Go full bore into Lebanon...force the government to deal with the TERRORISTS they are SUPPORTING. Get rid of the worthless UN...and get down to business.....
Speaking strictly for myself, I am pro-justice. You cannot see the injustice because you take sides so strongly. Terror is as terror does, and war is the oldest form of terror. Shelling civilians deliberately is terror. The Israelis apparently share the RW's contempt for international law, since they deliberately killed UNFIL observers. What did they not want the Un to observe? War IS terror. When one nation destroys another and call it "self-defense" they simply add hypocrisy to their terrorist crimes. The IDF leadership and GW Bush should be tried for war crimes. There is an alternative to war/terror: justice.
“My urgent advice to you would be, not only always to think first of America, but always, also, to think first of humanity. You do not love humanity if you seek to divide humanity into jealous camps. Humanity can be welded together only by love, by sympathy, by justice, not by jealousy and hatred. I am sorry for the man who seeks to make personal capital out of the passions of his fellowmen. He has lost touch with the ideal of America. For America was created to unit mankind…” (President Woodrow Wilson; To Americans of Foreign Birth, 1915) | |
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| Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing?
Posted: 8/17/2006 3:42:13 PM |
Well, Indians don't blow themselves out amng innicent people. Palestinians do
What is the difference between dropping a bomb among innocent people and blowing yourself up among innocent people? Either is terrorism. Indians made suicidal raids against their white tormenters, and wiped out whole families on their territory.
“My urgent advice to you would be, not only always to think first of America, but always, also, to think first of humanity. You do not love humanity if you seek to divide humanity into jealous camps. Humanity can be welded together only by love, by sympathy, by justice, not by jealousy and hatred. I am sorry for the man who seeks to make personal capital out of the passions of his fellowmen. He has lost touch with the ideal of America. For America was created to unite mankind…” (President Woodrow Wilson; To Americans of Foreign Birth, 1915) | |
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| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 7:12:35 PM | Here you are I found some very intriguing info in my "history lessons" passionateman hop you enjoy, I know I sure did.
History of "Palestine" 1273 BCE to 1948
The only time "Palestine" was ruled by "Palestinians" or any people from the Arabian Peninsula was briefly around 635 A.D.
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 A.D. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years...," the Muslim chairman of the Syrian Delegation attested in his remarks to the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919.
"Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel... " Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head of the PLO and member of its Executive Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977
A.D. Ruler *
1273 BCE Israel Conquest of Canaan ** under Joshua,
423 BCE Iranian Babylon invades and destroys First Temple [Persian empire was based in modern day Iran]
371 BCE Israel
Iranian King Cyrus issued decree to restore Jewish Nation
312 BCE Israel
Greek Battle of Gaza; Seleucus controls Syria and Babylonia [Seleucid empire was based in Macedonia, northern Greece]
285-246 BCE Israel
Egyptian Rule of Ptolemy II
199 BCE Israel
Greek Seleucid monarchy occupies Judea **
175 BCE Israel
Greek-Syrian Antiochus Epiphanes came to throne in Syria
168 BCE Israel
Greek-Syrian Pagan idol set up in Temple
165 BCE Israel
Greek-Syrian Macabean Revolt, beginning of Hasmonean dynasty
142 BCE Israel Shimon rules and gains Judean indepence
135-104 BCE Israel Rule of Yochanan Hyrkanus
104-103 BCE Israel Rule of Yehudah Aristobulus
103-76 BCE Israel Rule of Alexander Yannai
76-66 BCE Israel Rule of Salome Alexandra
63 BCE Israel
Roman Civil War: Hyrkanus vs. Aristobulus. Pompey intervenes, Conquest of Jerusalem by Pompey, Judea becomes Roman Vassal.
47 BCE Israel
Roman Caesar appoints Antipater ruler of Judea
70 Roman The Romans conquer Jerusalem
132-136 Roman Jewish revolt under Bar Kochba; final defeat of Judah and loss of political sovereignty, rename area to "Palestine" **
351 Roman Jewish revolt to end foreign rule; Roman Empire adopts Christianity.
395 Turkish Palestine part of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, still called Judea or Judah.
438 Turkish Empress Eudocia allows Jews back to Temple site, misinterpreted by Jews as return to nationhood.
614 Iran Persian conquest under Chosroes (with the support of a Jewish army).
628 Turkish "Palestine" reconquered by the Byzantines
633-637 Syrian Arab conquest; shortly afterward, attempt by Jews to restore their nation.
639 Syrian Muawiyah Arab governor.
660 Syrian Muawiyah is made the first Omayyad Caliph of Damascus.
661 Syrian Murder of Ali; Omayyad Dynasty begins.
750 Iraq Last Omayyad Caliph defeated; reign of the Abbassid Caliphs of Baghdad (Persian, Turk, Circassian, Kurd).
878 Egyptian Ahmad, b. Tulun, a Turkish general and governor of Egypt, conquers Palestine; reign of the Tulunides (Turks).
904 Iraq The Abbassids of Baghdad reconquer Palestine.
906 Carmathians Inroads of the Carmathians.
934 Egyptian The Egyptian lkhshidi princes conquer Palestine; their reign begins.
969 Egyptian The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969-971 Carmathians War with the Carmathians.
970-976 Turkish Byzantine invasion.
1070-1080 Turkish Seljuq Turks conquer Palestine.
1099 Crusaders The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.
1187 Crusaders Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.
1244 Mongolian The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem's population is slaughtered, the city sacked.
1260 Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut, in Palestine; their reign begins.
1260 Egyptian Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.
1291 Egyptian End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.
1299-1303 Mongolian Mongol invasion.
1516-1517 Turkish The Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1799 French Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.
1831 Egyptian Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt's Viceroy, occupies Palestine.
1840 Turkish Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.
1840 Turkish English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.
1871-1882 Turkish First Jewish agricultural settlements.
1909 Turkish Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
1917-1918 British Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.
1917-1918 British Balfour Declaration granting "Jewish Homeland" internationally approved.
1920 British British (pre-Mandate) civil administration; Turkish sovereignty renounced, treaty includes Balfour Declaration
1922 British Palestine Mandate; Jewish National Home confirmed.
1923 British Palestine Mandate comes into operation.
1923 British Seventy-five percent of Palestine is set aside as an independent Arab "Palestinian" state, Transiordan.
1925 British Hebrew University of Jerusalem opened.
1927 British High Commissioners receive Commission for Transjordan.
1929 British Arab revolt.
1936-1939 British Arab revolt and civil war.
1946 British Establishment of Arab state of Transiordan.
1948 Israel End of Mandate for Palestine; establishment of State of Israel; Arab-Jewish war.
1948 Israel Eastern Palestine-Transjordan-.occupies the West Bank area of Western Palestine, becomes "Jordan," constituting over eighty percent of Palestine.
* For familiarity we cite the closest modern country which contained the seat of power at the time.
** Canaan, Judea and "Palestine" refers to both the East and West banks of the Jordan river, what is Israel and Jordan today..
Source: Joan Peter's "From Time Immemorial" Harper & Row Publishers
(with over 150 pages of well sourced footnotes) and
"History of the Jewish People - The Second Temple Era" by Mesorah Publications
Essays on the history of the Jewish state, from 1850 to the present.
www.eretzyisroel.org
This is a very interesting site thought some people might enjoy to see that israel has held its territory for quite some time and other rulers in between, note the fact that there has not been a palastine for how long...a long time. So why is it that hezbollah has its nickers in a knot over something thats after that long definately not going to be handed back on a silver platter on the grounds that palistinians haven't ruled over the area since ancient times. Thanks for the enlightenment passionateman, reminds me to keep up on my reading. | |
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| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 7:23:33 PM | Damn Cleo.....
Way to go...fantastic post...that ought to really get under the skin of our Hezbolla lovers!
Keep it coming...these folks here can not stand the TRUTH...Lets knockem on the head with it...see if it matters.. | |
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| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 7:28:10 PM | @ cotter
Read the above post...Israel has had their lands since "biblical times" so I kind think that they do have cause and the land is their own.
No one is calling for this. The Lebanese just want their land back. They want what is rightfully theirs.
Umm..how is it rightfully theirs after how many centuries?
You are absolutely right … but first they need to pull out of the illegally occupied areas, go back to what is truly rightfully theirs. There are many Israeli citizens who are disgusted about what their government is doing … many who object to the stealing of the Lebanese land … the killing of the Lebanese people (better known as genocide). There are many Israeli Journalists, Scholars, Rabbi's, citizens who outright oppose Zionism to "the concept of creating 'Israel' by the use of force and violence, by stealing the Arabs’ lands and killing Palestinians".
How is it genocide when they didn't start the conflict (and past conflicts)? Palistine was re-formed as a tactic to regain something they haven't held for many many many many years and hezbollah is just looking for any money grab they can find to start up more terror plans and suicide bombings and killing which apparently they seem to have a burning desire for and get more people to stupidly agree to join up to their cause. | |
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| First they gave them Gaza and now
Posted: 8/17/2006 7:31:45 PM | | Thanks rightwinggoodguy. It burn my tail to see so many thinking that that kind of terror is the right thing to do and that its ok for hezbollah to get away with what they are doing to people on both sides. | |
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