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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?      Home login  
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 rks58
Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 51
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government? Page 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Then why did the US spend billions on Johnson island building a facility to break all nerve agents down? We could have saved a bunch of money and just let it sit. lol

Obviously your understanding of chemical weapons is rather limited. Allow me to educate you a bit.

All G-series nerve agents (of which sarin is the first, also known as GA) degrade over time. Later variants are longer lasting (like GB) but they too degrade over time (a relatively short time). The only way to prevent this is to store their precursors separately and mix them shortly before use.

V-series nerve agents (like VG and VX) are much more stable and persistent making them much more resistant to degradation.

The problem of degradation is the primary reason why binary delivery munitions were developed (especially for the G-series). In a binary munition the chemical precursors are not mixed until shortly before the weapon is deployed (as in the casing 'bursts'). Binary munitions are designed to mix while the munition is 'in-flight'. Shelf life is the primary reason for doing this but safety is also a consideration (especially for the V-series).

Special sites for the destruction of chemical weapons are necessary because of the relative persistence of the V-series and the need to destroy the precursors of both series in a safe environment (any accidental mixing is a series issue, it only takes 200 micrograms, that's MILLIONTHS of a gram, of VX to kill) but also due to the nature of the munitions which contain them.

Are you less likely to lol about the issue now?
 billb52
Joined: 6/4/2006
Msg: 52
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 8/21/2006 6:06:38 PM
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think"
(Adolf Hitler)

Don't you think that governments would like it if we don't vote?
Don't you think that government like's it when we don't complain? Example: war, rising gas prices, job's going to China, Social Security, Medicare, etc...

Don't you think government likes it when you don't get involved in your own government and keep your opinion to yourself?

Don't you think government likes it when you don't think for yourself?

Don't you think your government likes it that you fall for their propaganda from the news media?

Don't you think it's time for the people to take back the government?

Don't you think it's time to be a truthseeker and research the truth as to what your government is telling you?

Don't you think, when it comes time to vote, you need to vote?

I think it's time for you to think for yourself. And if you are not registered to vote and don't vote and don't care, then you get what you deserve.
 keepingit
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 53
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 8/21/2006 6:16:48 PM
Obviously your understanding of chemical weapons is rather limited. Allow me to educate you a bit.


I know what they are. And I know how to survive them. Limited? Perhaps so. I obviously don't know how to make it.
I know the types and watched the goat film in the corps and the special forces. I know what antropine (sp?) is and what it does. Not a good solution just last ditch.

My position stands as stated after the nerve agent tangent. Please reread my position. She stays where she lays.

Less likely to laugh now? No I just helped the SeaBee's burry the bodies.
 Byrd
Joined: 7/19/2004
Msg: 54
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History
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 8/22/2006 12:55:02 PM
Last time I voiced my opinion about our so called government some chicken sh t little jerk sent me a nice little virus which ate my computer you gotta watch out who you pick for friends because not everyone is honorable..
 Gorshkov
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 55
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 8/30/2006 6:58:43 PM
Interesting.

Free speech is apparently VERY alive and well, both in Canada and the USA, judging from this thread. Unfortunatly, thinking doesn't seem to be quite as widely practiced.

Has it occurred to anybody here that maybe - just MAYBE - you can disagree on the war in Iraq, or Israel/Lebanon - or any other topic - without being a) a neocon reactionary, or b) a left-wing, terrorist enabeler?

Has it occurred to anybody that maybe - just MAYBE - some of the things that the "other side" says might have just a *smidgen* of truth to it, and not be all propoganda and spin? That maybe there really ARE two sides to a story, and that neither side has a monopoly on either the truth, lies, OR propoganda?

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who is afraid to speak up in either of these societies needs to have their tin foil hat adjusted. What's more worrying to ME is the lack of critical thinking applied to the things that people discuss here, and the knee-jerk reactions to those that disagree with them.
 Byrd
Joined: 7/19/2004
Msg: 56
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Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 8/30/2006 9:31:58 PM
I was a political worker for 15 years even campaining for Quale for congress in Indiana if I wanna **** I'm going to ****...As far as the Clintion klan they can stuff it..Have a wonderful day..Love, Byrd
 lordpalmer
Joined: 1/7/2006
Msg: 57
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Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 8/30/2006 9:34:08 PM
Because in places like the United States and Canada you are free to speak out against your government without fear of being summarily executed or persecuted.
 john6-81
Joined: 7/31/2006
Msg: 58
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 8/31/2006 12:31:52 AM
The government likes to give the impression of freedom of speach and they have the media to label most people that speak out as nuts. However, get a following and you end up in prison after a star chamber trial that would make Stalin proud.
 Gorshkov
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 59
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 8/31/2006 4:28:21 PM

The government likes to give the impression of freedom of speach and they have the media to label most people that speak out as nuts. However, get a following and you end up in prison after a star chamber trial that would make Stalin proud.


And I'm sure you have a citation to back that one up? I'd love to see it.
 Intercooler
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 60
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Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/1/2006 6:35:44 PM
^^^ Good God, man! You obviously cannot decipher the social commentary he is making here.

A person doesn't have to write a doctoral thesis for people to understand the social concept that beating women with a baseball bat is bad. Geezus......
 john6-81
Joined: 7/31/2006
Msg: 61
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/1/2006 9:34:13 PM
And I'm sure you have a citation to back that one up? I'd love to see it.

Absolutely, I have criteria. However, I suspect that you are just an apologist's for the government and that you really don't care to read it. Nevertheless, in the event that you do have an open mind for starters, you can view the following sites:

http://joebanister.blogspot.com/
http://www.freedomabovefortune.com/
http://www.givemeliberty.org/
http://www.paynoincometax.com/irwinschiff.htm

Unfortunately, the transcripts and the approximately, 300 documents on the Star Chamber trial of Richard Simkanin, another trial that would have made Stalin proud, are no longer available on the Internet. I suspect the government has interfered with the original web site. Regardless, I have the documents on CD and after reading the information on the above sites, if you wish to know more and you are willing to spend 8 to 12 hours to read all the documents, message me with you address and I will mail you the CD.
 DouglasInMotown
Joined: 8/9/2006
Msg: 62
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/2/2006 6:44:15 AM
Here's the long and the short of it: You can have as much free speech as you want, without repercussions, as long as it doesn't matter. Stand up in a tavern and generally denounce the government, fine.

But watch your back when you begin becoming effective. Here in Michigan, Reverend Edward Pinkney is fighting to stay out of jail. His "crime"? Helping young people avoid getting railroaded by the criminal courts and successfully organizing a recall election of a corrupt county commissioner. First thing that happened is that a judge declared the recall election invalid and let the corrupt commissioner stay, and then they brought felony election fraud charges against Pinkney. The charges say that he illegally handled maybe five or six absentee ballots, which falls far short of changing the election results, even if it's true. The first jury returned a mixed verdict and they're pressing the same charges again. Maybe the case is too weak to convict him, but if they can tie him down in legal proceedings and drain his (and the community's) life savings paying legal defense fees, they can neutralize him anyway.

In fact, among political activists, that's a generally accepted marker of whether you're becoming effective: whether you've been targeted. If you haven't been in jail, you're probably not accomplishing anything.

As for voting? Sure, go ahead and vote. But don't kid yourself about it being effective unless you also have some authority over who gets onto the ballot. Were I a dictator bent on retaining power, the first thing I'd do would be to establish general elections, but rig the system so that only cronies ever get onto the ballot in the first place. (much like they do in Chicago)

The Pennsylvania Democratic [sic] party is going positively apoplectic over an actual challenge. Despite a rigged system (Democratic candidates need to submit 2,000 signatures to get onto the ballot; Green candidates need 60,000) Green party candidate Carl Romanelli organized the ballot access signature drive and met the requirement to be on the ballot, only to be tied up in court defending them against a challenge by the Democratic party.

Myself, I challenged some of the system head on by running for office. (save the thread; every time I mention that I'm running for governor here, the thread gets deleted - yet another example of free speech at work) I got dragged away from a candidates' debate by police, beat up and jailed.

I must have been effective.
 Intercooler
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 63
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Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/2/2006 7:26:38 AM
^^^ Very interesting information, Douglas. I think you make an incredibly salient point about not being afraid to speak up......only until you start being effective. I completely agree and believe that organization is the only way to achieve any kind of effectiveness. "Show them the numbers."

Good luck to you.
 john6-81
Joined: 7/31/2006
Msg: 64
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/2/2006 12:09:08 PM
Myself, I challenged some of the system head on by running for office. (save the thread; every time I mention that I'm running for governor here, the thread gets deleted - yet another example of free speech at work) I got dragged away from a candidates' debate by police, beat up and jailed.

I knew the primary media speaks as one voice in support of the government and the courts. I did not know their tentacles even reached POF, but I would not be surprised. All it takes is for some government agent to drop by with not so veiled threats of some law violation or the IRS auditing them every day--the mother of all audits.

Reverend Edward Pinkney will probably be sent to prison. If he was a murderer or had swindled elderly folks out of millions of dollars, he would get a fair trial. However, as a threat to government continuing their evils, Reverend Edward Pinkney will not receive a fair trial. That he has not violated any law does not matter. The government will invent crimes and the courts will assist by denying the defense the right to even mention the law. The court will select the jury pool from people the government have profiled and determined most likely to convict. They will have one or more ringers on the jury to keep the judge informed and to vote guilty, so at the worst, the government gets a new trial. The ringers will snitch on any holdout that will not vote guilty so they can be removed and replaced.

The defense will be denied the right to present evidence, in rulings outside the hearing of the jury. And the judge will allow lies and perjured testimony by prosecution witnesses. The judge will sustain all objections from the prosecutor and overrule all objections by the defense. The media will assist by ignoring all the facts and publish government press releases. Finally, the appeal court will not address any of the dozens of irregularities and violations of procedures and laws by the judge with a one-word answer--DENIED.

That is standard procedure in so-called political trials. They are not trials; they are Star Chambers. The government cannot give all of us Star Chamber trials, lest the public become aware. They have the media to label the rest of us as tax-protestors or conspiracy theory nut cases. Eventually, after they have consolidated their powers, they will be able to send any protestor to die in some torture chamber and the public will finally know what it is like to live in fear of their government. That is the price they will pay for substitution liberty for promises of temporary security.
 vivid
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 65
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/2/2006 1:42:53 PM
http://www.rutherford.org/articles_db/commentary.asp?record_id=306

Well, I think we Canadians enjoy the freedom of expression far
more than our American neighbours.

We don't just sing about freedom, we live it! Free speech and all. The media
in the USA attempted to destroy the dixie chicks for their speech, and
now we have neighbours vs neighbours reporting their own citizens and
getting visits by the FBI? That's not freedom folks.

I know a few years ago there was a program...forget the name...where the
gov't asked all citizens to report their neighbours if they suspected any
anti-gov't comments. Some of you probably remember.....from that I know
I'm truly living in the land of the free and it ain't the USA.
 onthewing
Joined: 6/27/2006
Msg: 66
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/2/2006 1:55:06 PM
It's becoming less safe to speak out in ANY country, including my own which is the UK. Nevertheless, even though safety has to be considered, it's unwise sometimes NOT to speak out. All governments want all the power and control they can get over their own peoples; that is their nature. The only way to stand a chance of stopping them is by shouting and drawing attention to the dirty,sneaky little games they play in darkened corners of the corridors of power. Governments are like jackals: brave when you lie down to them, cowards when you jump to your feet and scream at them. Often, their only weapon - and it is a powerful one - is to shut you up QUIETLY. A couple of years ago, I wrote a series of letters - it doesn't matter on what subject - to our local paper. I was astonished at both the vitriol that was thrown my way on the one hand and at the supporting letters and phone calls I got on the other. After a while, the 'paper stopped printing my letters: it was only months later that I learned the paper was a very discrete supporter of the ruling party in my local council; I was told by a local councillor that someone had probably had 'a quiet word' with the paper. Likewise, I wrote letters to my local Member of Parliament and my European Member of Parliament. It was made quite clear to me that I was getting a reputation as a nuisance. I would not be the least bit surprised to find there is a file on me somewhere as a potential troublemaker; if my government could create files on 1960's-70's students who went on protest marches - which they did; it is fact - then they won't hesitate to create one on me.
All the same, I'll keep screaming when I can: I'm an awkward bugger who gets very stroppy when someone tries to control me. My advice to anyone else is to keep screaming too - for your own, and your children's, future safety. Finally, I'll say this: IF YOU GIVE 100% OF YOUR TRUST TO YOUR GOVERNMENT THEY'LL ABUSE IT AS NEAR 100% AS THEY CAN MANAGE. DON'T TRUST YOUR GOVERNMENTAL **stardS ANY MORE THAN I TRUST MINE.
 Senor Spode
Joined: 7/11/2006
Msg: 67
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/2/2006 2:12:37 PM
Imagine if the internet and discussion forums existed during the 'Red Scare' era. Everyone here would of been carted off for questioning by now with some comment or another (liking Vodka, Tchaikovsky, etc.).
 Brizo
Joined: 2/19/2006
Msg: 68
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Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/2/2006 3:35:53 PM
IF YOU GIVE 100% OF YOUR TRUST TO YOUR GOVERNMENT THEY'LL ABUSE IT AS NEAR 100% AS THEY CAN MANAGE. DON'T TRUST YOUR GOVERNMENTAL **stardS ANY MORE THAN I TRUST MINE.


Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Not sure who said it, but truer words were never spoken....that's why we can't let any government have absolute power.
 c.taylor
Joined: 8/26/2006
Msg: 69
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/2/2006 7:12:44 PM

RNR1: I'm a fan of the second Ammendment too. What Militia do you belong too? Have you ever ACTUALLY read the Second Ammendment, or did you let Charlton interpret it for you along with Genesis?


I have.The Militia is 'us' and it can't be formed without armed citizenry.
 newguy106
Joined: 7/26/2006
Msg: 70
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/4/2006 12:00:19 AM
I believe speaking out against your government would make you an enemy of the state in the U.S.A.

Not a title that is highly desirable I'd say.
 DouglasInMotown
Joined: 8/9/2006
Msg: 71
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/14/2006 3:47:49 PM

john6-81
Reverend Edward Pinkney will probably be sent to prison. If he was a murderer ... , he would get a fair trial. However, as a threat to government continuing their evils, Reverend Edward Pinkney will not receive a fair trial. That he has not violated any law does not matter. The government will invent crimes and the courts will assist by denying the defense the right to even mention the law. The court will select the jury pool from people the government have profiled and determined most likely to convict. They will have one or more ringers on the jury to keep the judge informed and to vote guilty, so at the worst, the government gets a new trial. The ringers will snitch on any holdout that will not vote guilty so they can be removed and replaced. ...


Actually, I'm guessing not. He's a heck of a community organizer with a good reputation and a lot of respect locally, but if he did go to jail, his church and the community would find someone to take over for him and continue his work. If they can keep him perpetually tangled up, stressed to the max and on the edge of bankruptcy with a never-ending stream of legal actions, (paid for, of course, with your tax dollars and mine) then he won't be replaced but won't be effective, either.
 vivid
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 72
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/14/2006 6:54:13 PM
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?

For our paranoid friends, if you don't speak out against this gov't and
actually wrote posts that supported the oppresive nature of this
gov't; don't you think when the democrats come into power that
they too will be taking notes on YOUR ACTIVITIES and what YOU
posted.

Last time I voiced my opinion about our so called government some chicken sh t little jerk sent me a nice little virus which ate my computer you gotta watch out who you pick for friends because not everyone is honorable.

I got one threat...many in the conservative crowd have mental issues.
 LavishlyLove
Joined: 7/4/2006
Msg: 73
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/15/2006 2:31:30 AM
ha ha ha... Great answer....
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 74
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Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/16/2006 10:26:41 AM
Maybe what Gorshkov was trying to get at is that people talk about free speech but we should be talking about free listening and thinking as well. The ability to form one's own opinion is as important as the ability to share it with someone else. I was once told that I have two ears and one mouth maybe there is a reason for that. During the last election, I was having a fairly non-comittal conversation about politics with some folks at church (yeah, that may have been doomed with the caveats about discussing religion and politics among friends). My point is that I made a comment and one of the guys, an older gentleman my father's age that is normally very balanced and kind, slammed his hand down on the table, made a remark and pretty much stormed out of the room.

People often discuss free speech on the threads because it is important to all of us but when one encounters an individual with a different opinion, do we really listen with an open mind and then make our own comments or do we focus on convincing them that they are wrong? Part of the beauty of free speech is that it is okay, even good, to disagree. I don't agree with much of what I read or hear in this forum or elsewhere but I at least try to listen and if there is a valid point, I hope I am a big enough person to admit it and incorporate it into my philosophies and knowledge base.

It bothers me that people base their opinions on soundbytes or information they receive from others without reading about the issue themselves. I try to contribute by passing on what I have learned in books, articles, the news, and my experiences and if one person walks away better informed or perhaps makes the time to look into something, maybe the world is a little better place as a result. The human race is full of good and bad people of all shapes and sizes, colors, ethnicities, nationalities, religious and political affiliations, but at the end of the day we are all more alike than we are different. We all love people, we have children, we experience joy and tragedy, and we want ourselves and those we love to be happy. The us and them does not work and the only way we can change it is by trying to improve our own little corner of the universe.
 breezerdog
Joined: 11/21/2005
Msg: 75
Are You Afraid To Speak Out About Your Government?
Posted: 9/16/2006 7:18:11 PM
Maybe online but when you speak out in public the man isn't so patient or friendly anymore. You can thank the Patriot Act 1 and 2 for the loss of your civil liberties and loss of free speech. PNAC has caused a few problems as well as the silly "terrorism act"...

What you think or right on here will never be published in the Times or a clip on CNN.

Keep the net free....

Peace is possible you have to ditch the weapons first then people will listen better when they are alive..
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