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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 47 | |
| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/20/2006 6:38:38 PM |
Parallel deployment would encourage them to deploy a lot of forces to allow the Israelis to go home. If you want to make a parallel number game out of it, you could assert that Israel would have to remove 1000 troops for every 1000 UN or Lebanese soldier that replaced them. Gee, so Isreal should remove about 50 troops tonight at the rate the UN is deploying.
That might be a valid interpretation if it was about geometry but it's not. It simply means in an interdependant way, that is, the Israeli withdrawal depends on UN deployment and UN deployment depends the Israeli withdrawal.
The language does not specify how many troops the UN has to deploy before the Israelis withdraw, it simply says they will deploy. It does however say that the Israelis MUST WITHDRAW COMPLETELY. At the time the ceasefire came into effect there were already 2,000 UN troops in Lebanon and within the designated zone. That is sufficient to trigger the Israeli requirement to withdraw completely under the terms of the cease-fire. | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/20/2006 6:38:44 PM | So far, the only official release on Isreali or Lebanese cease-fire violations is this:
Israel's violation of cessation of hostilities endangers fragile calm – Annan
19 August 2006 – United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has been in touch with top Israeli and Lebanese officials today following an Israeli raid in eastern Lebanon which he warned endangers the fragile calm that has generally held in the region since Monday.
“The Secretary-General is deeply concerned about a violation by the Israeli side of the cessation of hostilities as laid out in Security Council resolution 1701,” a UN spokesman said in a statement. Adopted on 11 August, that text mandated a halt to the fighting which took effect three days later.
There have also been several air violations by Israeli military aircraft, according to the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), which is helping to support and coordinate the Israeli withdrawal.
Mr. Annan said violations of Security Council resolution 1701 such as the Israeli raid today “endanger the fragile calm that was reached after much negotiation and undermine the authority of the Government of Lebanon.”
He called on all parties “to respect strictly the arms embargo, exercise maximum restraint, avoid provocative actions and display responsibility in implementing resolution 1701.”
The Secretary-General has today spoken to the Prime Ministers of Israel and Lebanon about this matter, according to the spokesman, who added that Mr. Annan has further instructed that daily reports of compliance on the cessation of hostilities by the parties should be provided to the Security Council.
Under resolution 1701, UNIFIL is to be given more robust rules of engagement and expanded to include up to 15,000 peacekeepers to support the Lebanese armed forces as they deploy across the south of the country at the same time as Israel withdraws from the area.
Israeli violations of the cease fire were reported to the security council by Lebanon, Israel has admitted to them.
Lebanese violations, if there ARE any; as reported by the Israeli Prime Minister, have NOT been reported to the security council, they've been used as pre-text to Israeli cease-fire violations after the fact. They have yet to be substantiated, at least I haven't been able to find any information that is anything other than allegations.
Surely if Hezbolla is being re-supplied with weapons, ...as is being alledged; there's proof of this. I've tried to find an evidence of this, or that Israel has supplied proof to the UN, ...reconnaissance photos, satellite imagery, and other means of making a case for Lebanese violations. Israel has access to the highest means of technology in this regard, ...if they have a case, why hasn't Lebanon been warned by the security council?
Hmmm... The Israeli PM has not said that there were weapons being smuggled BTW.
According to Olmert's office, the prime minister replied "the raid aimed to prevent Hezbollah from rearming and from receiving new supplies."
WTF? ...what if Lebanon decides to lob missles "to prevent IDF soldiers from violating the cease-fire"?
Lebanese Parliament Speaker Nabih Beri, said he also raised the incident with the envoys.
"If Lebanon had launched a similar act, wouldn't the Security Council have met to impose tough sanctions against it?" he asked, adding that he saw the raid as an attempt by Israel to provoke Hezbollah into retaliation and foil the deployment of the Lebanese army in south Lebanon.
"I'm sure that the resistance (Hezbollah) has enough awareness and realization of the conspiracy to refrain ... from retaliating ...," he said
If it looks like a suck, quacks like a duck, .....
Some political leaders in Israel are also not impressed.
Meretz party leader Yossi Beilin said on Sunday that the decision to carry out the raid in Baalbek put the cease fire at risk, and that the government's judgment in this case was completely distorted.
"We can't accept the terms of the cease fire, and simultaneously violate it, and remain in southern Lebanon. If government officials believe that it is not in Israel's best interest to adhere to the UN Security Council-brokered cease fire - they should announce that the war is in fact not over, and instruct Israel's residents to return to the shelters," Beilin said.
- Ha'aretz | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/20/2006 7:47:14 PM |
Quit flipping your one sided coin.
Unless you can show me the part of the resolution that gives the job to Israel in the interum, you're blowing steam. You just said yourself that "It calls for the future tense of Establishing such a zone. Explicitly. Again, not to be hedged by extravagant propaganda or prejudice. It is the actual text of the resolution."
It is NOT Israel's job. It is the future job of Lebanon and UNIFIL. So, quit spinning it.
you want to make a parallel number game out of it, you could assert that Israel would have to remove 1000 troops for every 1000 UN or Lebanese soldier that replaced them.
No, it says all when Lebanon and UNIFIL starts deploying.
Peace  | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/20/2006 8:02:25 PM | Seems as if the UN is having trouble finding troops to go in … it appears that France is unwilling to send troops if there is any possibility that they will get sucked into war-like action. And now this from Olmert this AM as announced by Col. Jack Jacobs (Retired):
"Olmert has stated that Israel will not allow participants in the UN force who do not recognize Israel."
I checked out Col. Jack Jacobs … and this is what it said about his present position: He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and is a director of the Medal of Honor Foundation. He is also a military analyst for NBC/MSNBC. | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/20/2006 8:38:16 PM |
No, it says all when Lebanon and UNIFIL starts deploying.
You know as well as I do, that deploying 50 soldiers would be a start. It would also be a legitimate "bait and switch," and would qualify as "bad faith." Look at it a little more practically in terms of Parallel, or just use the agreement as toilet paper. | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/20/2006 9:21:20 PM | | It was ridiculous to accept the ceasefire in the first instance. UN has already urged Hezbollah disarmed, If that happens so, It is an absolute victory for "us" israelis. However we are waiting for one more rocket to land in israel;that's when we'll turn lebonan in to ashes of history. | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 53 | |
| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/20/2006 9:36:52 PM | You know as well as I do, that deploying 50 soldiers would be a start. It would also be a legitimate "bait and switch," and would qualify as "bad faith."
"Bait and switch"?
I see, the UN is going to drop off 50 or so troops, wait until Israel has pulled out and then go home.
Yeah, that's a logical and reasonable assumption. I mean we all know that the UN is just itching to stab Israel in the back. I can just see Annan and 'his boys' sitting in the office, rubbing their hands together and laughing maniacally over their evil scheme.
Obviously the ~2000 UN Troops that have been there from the beginning of the cease-fire aren't really there (I'm guessing it's really only 5 -10 and they just kind of mill around so it looks like more to help Annan pull off his "bait and switch" plan, we know what gullible hicks the Israelis are).
And of course we know the Israelis are perfectly justified in violating the ceasefire. I mean, they said they were so it must be true, right? | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/21/2006 1:54:13 AM | UN has already urged Hezbollah disarmed, If that happens so, It is an absolute victory for "us" israelis.
Mindful of the sensitivity of the issue of prisoners and encouraging the efforts aimed at urgently settling the issue of the Lebanese prisoners detained in Israel
Taking due note of the proposals made in the seven-point plan regarding the Shebaa farms area
Provision to the United Nations of all remaining maps of land mines in Lebanon in Israel's possession
delineation of the international borders of Lebanon, especially in those areas where the border is disputed or uncertain, including by dealing with the Shebaa farms area, and to present to the Security Council those proposals within 30 days
Hezbollah appears to be getting everything it wants, too. Its unfortunate those things couldn't have been settled years ago.
__________
so that there will be no weapons without the consent of the government of Lebanon and no authority other than that of the government of Lebanon
No foreign forces in Lebanon without the consent of its government;
No sales or supply of arms and related materiel to Lebanon except as authorized by its government
these prohibitions shall not apply to arms, related material, training or assistance authorised by the government of Lebanon or by Unifil
Hezbollah can still remain armed, if the Lebanese government authorizes it. Hezbollah actions would definitely be the Lebanese government's responsibility if they did that though.
Peace | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/22/2006 1:38:03 PM | I am making a formal request of the moderator to re-post message #57 in an attempt to verify that the word "Hitlerian" was used. In the alternative, at least verify use of the word, and post your result.
Thank you
PK
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/22/2006 2:32:52 PM | It was ridiculous to accept the ceasefire in the first instance. UN has already urged Hezbollah disarmed, If that happens so, It is an absolute victory for "us" israelis. However we are waiting for one more rocket to land in israel;that's when we'll turn lebonan in to ashes of history.
I am just curious about the methods that are going to be used to turn lebanon into ashes?
1-will it be concentrations camps à la Hitler on lebanese soil ( seeing that israel does not have a whole lot of land to build them on its land)?
2-will it be H-bombs à la hiroshima dropped from a safe distance?
3-will it be a single shot in the head of every lebanese who managed to survive the last barbaric bombing?
4- all the above?
someone please tell us.
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/24/2006 12:49:31 PM | Why is the ceasefire fair? Hezbollah has to disarm ... but the terroristic (US-backed) Israel does not?
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8808.doc.htm
A paragraph to note:
Lebanon’s Acting Foreign Minister Tarek Mitri told the Council that, while his country is eager to see a cessation of hostilities, the nature of the cessation must be the same for both sides. “The Lebanese are not confident in (an) Israeli distinction between ‘defensive’ and ‘offensive’. The end to military operations should be unqualified”, he said, adding that “the obscenely disproportionate and unjustifiable Israeli retaliation” has already led to the deaths of more than 1,000 Lebanese.
Why are the supporters of Israel so Hell-bent on all other countries' compliance with UN Resolutions and they have hundreds of Resolutions against them that they are not in compliance with.
Does anyone else on here find that a bit unbalanced? Illogical thinking?
Ceasefire … armistice … truce… negotiating period … cessation of hostilities
Armistice … peace agreement … truce … resolution …
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/25/2006 9:46:52 AM |
I am just curious about the methods that are going to be used to turn lebanon into ashes?
1-will it be concentrations camps à la Hitler on lebanese soil ( seeing that israel does not have a whole lot of land to build them on its land)?
2-will it be H-bombs à la hiroshima dropped from a safe distance?
3-will it be a single shot in the head of every lebanese who managed to survive the last barbaric bombing?
4- all the above?
someone please tell us.
How about if I tell you what's gonna happen? I ingenuously have no doubt that this ceasefire WILL NOT LAST LONG. We, israeilis and our governement, have already called for hezbollah, this Primary Cancerous Tumors, to be disarmed. so has the UN and pretty much every single coutry with couple of exceptions of course. However, if they prolong to get armed by some other countries, We won't sit and watch them doing that. I am absolutely certain and confident that our army will do much better next time. we won't initiate the war however, they will. I don't support war at all. but If they assert to launch rocket to Israel, that's when I say, no more graciousness towards terrorists. That's when lebanese people either will defeat hezbollah themselves or they will lose what's left for lebanon. | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/25/2006 5:38:26 PM |
How about if I tell you what's gonna happen? I ingenuously have no doubt that this ceasefire WILL NOT LAST LONG. We, israeilis and our governement, have already called for hezbollah, this Primary Cancerous Tumors, to be disarmed. so has the UN and pretty much every single coutry with couple of exceptions of course. However, if they prolong to get armed by some other countries, We won't sit and watch them doing that. I am absolutely certain and confident that our army will do much better next time. we won't initiate the war however, they will. I don't support war at all. but If they assert to launch rocket to Israel, that's when I say, no more graciousness towards terrorists. That's when lebanese people either will defeat hezbollah themselves or they will lose what's left for lebanon.
so it's no longer turning lebanon into ashes. it's
our army will do much better next time like killing 100,000 lebanese instead of just 1000?
no more graciousness towards terrorists. That's when lebanese people either will defeat hezbollah themselves or they will lose what's left for lebanon
please don't be gracious. it cost lebanon intense suffering, billions of damages, 1000 of lives and a country infrastructure completely destroyed.
and the hezbollah terrorists? they are still there and doing well, thank you. and do you know why they are still around? because they happen to be in lebanon and lebanon happens to be their country. and in lebanon, lebanese people are free to roam...
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/25/2006 8:54:45 PM | The ceasefire UN 1701 can be ended by Lebanon talking to the UN and saying so.
Since Israel has been recognized by the UN has having violated it, the UN can and will begin negotiations for a new Security Council resolution with safeguards to prevent Israel form even being able to break the next one.
For example since Israel broke UN 1701, Lebanon can ask the UN for a UN 1704 which will ground all Israeli military aircraft in Israel so as to prevent rogue Israeli generals from ordering strikes which violate Israeli law.
A grounded Israeli air force and UN occupation and partition of Israel in the north, as a peaceful UN buffer zone to protect Lebanon will seem justified in the world press.
UN resolution 1701 has been broken, according to the UN. It therefore exists only as long as Lebanon chooses to do so before negotiating a new one (which may already be underway). The new one may be UN 1704 and because Israel used violence to break the last one (UN 1701), Lebanon can reasonably ask the UN to make 1704 so as to ground all Israeli aircraft (to protect Israeli democracy from rogue generals) and further constrict Israeli rights in the area. Israel lost.
List of current UN security council resolutions:
http://www.un.org/docs/sc/unsc_resolutions06.htm
Lebanon has already won UN 1701, now they can go on the full diplomatic offensive against Israel and further push Israel back with world and UN legal sanctions with a UN 1704.
People who say they "hope Israel doesn't break UN 1701 again", don't understand law. Israel has already broken UN 1701 the U.N. has acknowledged. But all in not lost, of course a new UN resolution can be created, and using their heads, this new resolution will be made so as to prevent the Israeli rogue generals from doing what they did last time (attacking)....by grounding their little toys on all Israeli airfields. This could be called UN 1704.
Israel lost the war and Israel has now lost the peace. Israel stands at the mercy of Lebanon's elected government. Lebanon can request a UN 1704 with UN monitoring of all Israeli military airfields will now be required for the next official UN resolution governing the conflict. Israel in breaking UN 1701 put itself at further risk.
The lesson learned is that Israel must keep it's rogue generals on a leash, or it's Democracy will be jeapordized and the state threatened. Why did Israelis think they could break the law, UN 1701? Because they felt that while they had signed the legal document, they thought they were superior to other humans. The supremacy complex of Israelis caused them to break the law that applied to other human beings.
Israel and Israelis must learn to treat other human beings and nations as Equals.
The superiority complex of Israelis will have to go, they will have to live as equals, laws apply even to Israelis. | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/26/2006 3:08:03 PM | Well ... hopefully a new ceasefire would call for both sides to disarm ... I don't see the sense in disarming one side and not the other. It's apparent that Lebanon’s Acting Foreign Minister Tarek Mitri sees it that way too.
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8808.doc.htm
Lebanon’s Acting Foreign Minister Tarek Mitri told the Council that, while his country is eager to see a cessation of hostilities, the nature of the cessation must be the same for both sides. “The Lebanese are not confident in (an) Israeli distinction between ‘defensive’ and ‘offensive’. The end to military operations should be unqualified”, he said, adding that “the obscenely disproportionate and unjustifiable Israeli retaliation” has already led to the deaths of more than 1,000 Lebanese. | |
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bobby7
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 65 | |
| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/26/2006 4:13:52 PM | "absolute victory for "us" israelis".
Israel should quit, already! They have broken all cease-fire agreements they ever entered into. They have defied most UN resolutions also. I am not anti Isreal, if they need to defend themselves, they should do so..We're not talking defense here...
As for the quote above, in my post.....Israeli? in Alberta? Lose your way?? | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/27/2006 3:40:27 PM | What is most likely going on now is Lebanon and the U.N. are going over a new resolution which will prevent Israel from breaking it like they did last time in UN 1701.
Middle East Times, actual photo of landing site:
http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20060819-072152-8879r
Obviously UN 1701 did not provide the protections that were needed.
Agence Presse France : http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=74875
What Israel faces now is a harsher UN resolution against Israel, such as a new UN 1704. This is what the insane warmongers in Israel get, even harsher restrictions against Israel in a new U.N. security council resolution such as a UN 1704.
Detailed proof of Israel breaking UN 1701:
http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=897557
http://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/Lebanon/202073
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20060819&hn=35789
http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&B116AC329DE307CBC22571CF00205DEF
http://www.sana.org/eng/22/2006/08/19/58820.htm
Israel, in breaking the law it signed onto, is showing the world their lack of ethics, and they are now loosing big time in the world media which they rely on for grants and free money funding.
The basic law is that Israel, the nation, signed, and became bound by a law with another nation and it's people. Some of Israel's generals thought they were above the law and broke the state of Israel's word.
Israel has to learn that democracy is about argument and debate, they can't go on forever protecting their few rogue, criminally insane, generals. Israel has flaws.
Israel has to loose the israeli supremacy complex and treat other people and nations as equals. | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/27/2006 3:54:54 PM | Given Israel's record in UN Resolutions ... I'd say it's highly unlikely that one could ever expect them to comply. Apparently they just feel like they're above all that or the US bails them out and they veto any resolution that would call Israel to taking responsibility for illegal or unethical actions.
Israel, in breaking law it signed onto, is showing the world their ethics, and they are now loosing big time. I believe the world is now becomming more aware of Israeli ethics ... but it's not just Israel. It's the USA as well and it hasn't been just the present administration either. As we all know this has been going on a long time. | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/27/2006 4:41:46 PM | To whom it may concern,
1704 has already been unanimously approved, and has nothing to do with Israel.
Why are the supporters of Israel so Hell-bent on all other countries' compliance with UN Resolutions and they have hundreds of Resolutions against them that they are not in compliance with.
Does anyone else on here find that a bit unbalanced? Illogical thinking?
Iraq and Israel had little interest in complying with many of the resolutions against them. It is unbalanced and illogical to consider anyones compliance with UN resolutions, considering their record of enforcement; but for the sake of diplomacy and legitimacy. UN resolutions impose the thoughts of the superpowers upon the lesser nations, but carry little if any enforcement. If you burn the paper, they hand you another to burn. I wish in worked that way when a cop gave me a ticket. I could fuel the fireplace all winter long.
Interestingly enough, diplomacy is the force that drives future compliance. Israel considered Kofi's statement that Israel should ignore any Hezbollah violations, and not reciprocate, as a diplomatic slap in the face. They diplomatically slapped him back with a measured and pinpointed response to a valid threat. Now that the slapping is over, and everybody is awake, the resolution is starting to have some effect. Lebanon will not ask for another resolution unless the breaches and violations continue. Israel will insist on parallel movements. It is working, but not for long if Hezbollah attacks or is able to re-arm with impunity. You cannot expect Israel to accept unilateral sanctions if their security is jeopardized unless the resolutions start carrying significant consequences. Saddam proved that they do not. Justice Delayed is Justice Denied. The UN delays Justice much too frequently. | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 8/30/2006 5:35:36 PM | Well since Israel broke UN 1701, Lebanon has the right to work with the UN to craft a new resolution, such as a UN 1705, (UN 1704 was for Timor), http://www.un.org/Docs/sc/unsc_resolutions06.htm
... which would gently push back the Israeli northern boundary to make room for a UN peacekeeping force on Israeli soil.
A poster wanted to say...
Interestingly enough, diplomacy is the force that drives future compliance.
Labanon has that right, to push Isreal back legally, under a UN 1705, now that Israel has blown UN 1701.
Let's look forward to UN forces occupying Israeli land to create Peace. Let's try to divest our stock portfolios out of the military industrial complex so we don't feel the need to justify Israeli aggression and human right's violations so much in public.
After all if we let the Public view the Israeli aggression as negative, they will sell their shares, out of public shame, then thoese individuals who have invested in military company stocks loose their retirement investments, in Northrop, for example.
Winning the public's support keeps stocks high, for those heavily invested in the military industiries, and it shows, too. | |
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| Israel breaks U.N. ceasefire resolution 1701 with attack.
Posted: 9/2/2006 11:32:59 PM |
Oh yes! At least they would learn what it's like to be "occupied" ... even it's only with UN forces.
I'm thinking that a few of them might have experienced it in Poland, Austria, France, Belgium, and Holland, but I agree that a more contemporary example might reinforce their memory. I suspect it won't happen unless Hezbollah, Hamas, or Arab nations actually win in a ground offensive, or if Israel grants concessions.
I would really like to see the cites of examples, precedents, and policies regarding UN resolutions that he is trying to foist on us. Wouldn't you, or do you take the words of a Filmaker as truth without verification? I think he's got nothing but smoke and mirrors. | |
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At least they would learn what it's like to be "occupied" ... even it's only with UN forces.