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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/2/2006 3:03:59 PM | I don't think it's a love it or hate it for everybody.
Of course some people never will.
But Metal is a powerful and complex type of music that everybody cannot understand or feel right.
It takes time to really appreciate it, you can develop your taste for it (so don't give up...)
A little bit more than a year ago, i didn't know anybody who like the same kind of music i do (not only metal btw).
But then i started to go on music forums and met friends with whom i can now talk and share my music interests.
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/2/2006 3:08:57 PM | Yeah, power metal is also my favorite...
You know Dark Moor?
Malmsteen?
They prove that metal and classical music are the same (among others...)
You can also try :
Falconer
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/3/2006 7:07:06 AM | Have u guys ever seen the movie 'Metal: A Headbangers Journey' (or something like that). If u havent, u should check it out, it talks a lot about how other people perceive metal as, and even there's a par of the movie talking about the time when metal was going to be banned in the U.S (there's footage of Dee Snyder from Twisted Sister in court with Al Gore & his wife).
But i think that the main reason why people have strong opinions about metal is cause they dont really bother to look into the lyrics and find what those really mean. At first glance most lyrics are extremely dark, but that doesnt mean that the lyricist wants to convey a certain idea (i think).
Check out that movie, i loved the 'interview' with 2 members of Mayhem, those dudes are crazy!
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/3/2006 1:35:45 PM |
I've been playing for almost 40 years,
Wow oh boy almost 40 years and you still are playing in your basement in front of your mirror and no recording contract in the near future. Gee Metallica, VanHalen, Aerosmith, Slayer, Motorhead, RUSH, Voivod, Kreator, Fear Factory and a host of others must be real envious of you lol after all their years of playing concerts worlwide
.. on and off professionally for 30 years. No doubt more OFF than ON lol I mostly just work as a session musician now, ...and I pick and choose who I work for, by whether I like their songwriting, ...genre is not a barrier for me. Which basically means musicians/bands don't want him to work for THEM lol  That said:
I tend not to base my preferences on marketing labels, ..but various criteria of "music"
I don't like music that:
- Has little or no dynamic envelope
- Is harmonically limited to diadic fifths and major/minor triads
- Is emotively narrow
- Is overtly formulaic
- Limited harmonic progression make melody nebulous
- Solos tend not to "phrase" (hard to phrase eloquently over diadic fifths)
Which pretty much encompasses the stylistic requirements of contemporary "Metal" if you think about it Dude if you honestly think metal musicians aren't talented then you are whacked and have done too many drugs in your day. Metal musicians could write songs and play circles around you and make you look like a complete hippie amateur with your folk music. Metal musicians lyrics are stories for jesus sake and make the best lyrics of anyone and why some of the biggest names in music that have stood the test of time are hard rock/heavy metal bands. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/3/2006 2:12:42 PM | See, I'm big into Death Metal. But trying to explain to someone what kind of music I like is a bit difficult at times, mostly people give you that semi-frightened look and say "oh".
Bands I enjoy would primarily be "In Flames", "Children of Bodom", "Soilwork" and even the occassional "Blind Guardian" and "Dragonforce". But, I'm sure many of you, like myself enjoy it for the intricate guitar work. The only problem is the negative outlook that many people have of the genre, I think.
On the other hand, what you get from the music is pretty personal. I find a lot of the stuff I listen to as inspirational and uplifting.
The only thing that I disagree with are the people (at least my perception of the people) who claim they're into X music because it makes them look cool or whatever. If you're listening to the music just to get attention then I think you need to find a hobby. | |
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 31 | |
| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/3/2006 2:16:38 PM | Wow oh boy almost 40 years and you still are playing in your basement in front of your mirror and no recording contract in the near future. Gee Metallica, VanHalen, Aerosmith, Slayer, Motorhead, RUSH, Voivod, Kreator, Fear Factory and a host of others must be real envious of you lol after all their years of playing concerts worlwide
Non sequitur.
I have a recording contract, it's as a session musician, not a pop act, ...not at all interested. I never got into music seeking attention, I got into because I love music, ...period.
No doubt more OFF than ON lol
Absolutely, I stopped playing live years ago. The market changed in the late '70s, early '80s. Unless one wants to move to Europe, there's few venues to play in N. America that cater to musicians. The large demographic is more concerned with pop acts, electronica, and stylists. Sticking to studio work means working less often, even if I took all offers, which I don't. THis is better for me, I don't like playing in a narrow scope, or in one style.
I did switch to teaching advanced improvisation to intermediate and professional guitar players for a few years, the money was good, and teaching is one of the best ways to learn, as you have to be understood by a myriad of perspectives, and frame concepts in those varied perspectives. But, I lost interest, ...when I lose interest, I follow new ones ...
Which basically means musicians/bands don't want him to work for THEM lol
Nope, it means that unless I like the artist, the songs, the producer, and unless it's a professional studio (Analog front end/2" tape mastering), I probably won't enjoy it, ...and if I'm not going to enjoy it, ....I'd rather not waste my time. The upside is, there's not a damned thing I've been involved with that I'm not happy with.
Happy = good
It's not about attention, ...or money.
It's about music.
Dude if you honestly think metal musicians aren't talented then you are whacked and have done too many drugs in your day.
A) I never said they weren't, I don't even use the word "talented", ...it's not a concept I recognize, ...being a nontheist.
B) You are showing your inability to indulge in basic reasoning
C) this is known as a "Strawman" fallacy
D) A strawman fallacy is a good indicater that the individual employing it, ...has no clue.
Metal musicians could write songs and play circles around you and make you look like a complete hippie amateur with your folk music.
Do you play? .....come, let's jam to the folk great John Coltrane's "Giant Steps", or would you prefer Bebop?
Interesting you'd bring up "folk", often employing just simple triads, still, ...one degree of scale more harmonically complex than a diadic fifth.
Compare this to say, your ...prediliction for expressing yourself monosyllabically, ...sure, this can be accomplished with loudly, and fast too, ...but you are unfortunately, communicating at a third grade level of literacy, and coming across as what is commonlly referred to as a "mouth breather", ...or so it seems.
Metal musicians lyrics are stories for jesus sake and make the best lyrics of anyone and why some of the biggest names in music that have stood the test of time are hard rock/heavy metal bands.
Non sequitur
You were replying to this:
I tend not to base my preferences on marketing labels, ..but various criteria of "music"
I don't like music that:
- Has little or no dynamic envelope
- Is harmonically limited to diadic fifths and major/minor triads
- Is emotively narrow
- Is overtly formulaic
- Limited harmonic progression make melody nebulous
- Solos tend not to "phrase" (hard to phrase eloquently over diadic fifths)
Which pretty much encompasses the stylistic requirements of contemporary "Metal" if you think about it
And blew your whole load, without even coming close to being in the ballpark of what it was you were replying to.
Why do you think that is?
I'll give you a l'il hint, ....maybe you don't have a clue?
If you're listening to the music just to get attention then I think you need to find a hobby.
Indeed, ...and a life. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/14/2006 6:47:33 PM | I think metal has become so heavily sub-divided and labeled that its pretty hard to define what is vs. isnt metal. Is Metallica metal or pop? Or I would have to say 20 years ago Ozzy was metal but I cant see that he is anymore. Metal has changed and I think more people listen to it but the old stuff is mainstream. I dont even use the word "metal" anymore come to think of it. I am in the sub-category wasteland.
I listen to Progressive and Goth but I cant call it "metal" but not one of my friends will listen to it, and very few listen to my melodid death or beauty and beast stuff although I think the melody behind it can be quite beautiful. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/25/2006 12:46:16 AM | | Most of the people I've talked to nowadays don't go anywhere near metal. the genres they stick to are hip hop, dance, indie rock, emo, and jam bands. When I do meet people that do listen to metal, for some reason, they strike a chord with the newer stuff than the older stuff. I mean, the new stuff isn't bad and some of it I just can't get enough of but bands like Avenged Sevenfold and Bullet For My Valentine attract more mainstream fans than metal fans. And when people are listening to bands like those and they also listen to something like My Chemical Romance, I start to wonder about them and wheather or not they've ever heard bands like Slayer or Testament. But thats just me. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/25/2006 1:53:53 AM |
The only light I've seen in the tunnel is one decent album by Opeth. Unfortunately, they too, have a dead singer doing sessions.... talk about the grateful dead?
This is one of the reasons why I stopped trying to argue with life-long musicians (that are ciritical of Metal) about the genre and its tributaries. It's the "cool" thing to act as if Metal isn't relevant anymore, it's corny, it's too hypermasculine, too over the top, too harsh, it's redundant, relies too much on formula . . .
Whatever.
On the other hand, what you get from the music is pretty personal. I find a lot of the stuff I listen to as inspirational and uplifting.
I, by in large, agree Clayman.
At this point listen to what pleases me, and I find that enrichment for my own life just for the heck of it. People fall under the pretense of being "open minded" until musical selection comes up. Many people aren't---even though they believe they are the opposite, and I'm not an exception. I stay with the musical diet I enjoy, and if others are going to berate me for that, I turn a cold shoulder to any knee-jerk reactions. I don't act as if I am that accepting of every genre; I will never state that there aren't skilled players in other musical forms, but by in large many bands never did anything good for me. Sure, I listen to some Classical now and then, or Ethereal Goth, or Dark Ambient---but who am I ultimately trying to satisfy? Populist leanings at the moment, or myself?
I also disagree with the notion that Metal isn't evocative; that's the most gross assumption I've ever read yet. There are a myriad of reasons why I could argue against that statement---I just stopped trying to give an explanation why I prefer Venom to modern Jazz, or why I like Celtic Frost over the banality of Dave Matthews, Darkthrone WAY over Rob Zombie . . . people who have already made up their minds aren't going to accept the fact it has validation and emotional resonance. It's beating a dead horse at this point. This is stuff truly is in my blood---there is no turning back. Granted, I don't buy as much CDs as I used to, but it's always been a constant in my personal time (too bad people themselves aren't as reliable!).
Hey, I think Korn and $elloutica are utter shit, but if that's what helps you through the day, go for it. The Black Sabbath worship will never cease at my altar. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/28/2006 12:03:08 AM | I personally don't listen to a lot of metal, most of the metal I used to listen to wasn't even metal at all. I'm a fairly open minded guy, it's just not my thing tho. My love was industrial music back in the day. At the end of the day, if the music moves me in some sort of way, I'll probably like it, as long as I'm not moving towards the stop button that is :P
Death metal and Speed metal I'll probably never enjoy, simply because there's only one dynamic to it. There are always exceptions, of course, but generally speaking it's just trying to kick you in the teeth either as hard as it can or as fast as it can, over and over until you're numb 2 minutes in. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/28/2006 8:43:44 AM |
The only light I've seen in the tunnel is one decent album by Opeth. Unfortunately, they too, have a dead singer doing sessions.... talk about the grateful dead?
Would you please clarify your statement, because I really didn't catch the idiom. If you mean it literally you are completely, utterly wrong.
The singer of Opeth is the mastermind behind it all. He's the one writing all their music, all their lyrics, playing guitar and singing. He's got a great growl and a pretty darn good clean voice. And, concidering the fact that he performs both growl and clean perfectly good live during the same song while playing guitar, I'd put him high on the list of good musicians.
Opeth's music is far from simple, as a lot of metal can be. It's highly melodic, epic, moody, beautiful, powerful etc....
Opeth is one of my favourite bands and is wonderful both on recordings and live.
I'm also a great fan of Tool, Enslaved, Mayhem, Immortal and other bands that give me something... | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/28/2006 10:08:54 AM | To clarify,
I don't dig the growl.
The growl from the likes of Cannibal Corpse completely ruins the great guitar sound.
Opeth is a great band..... when they don't growl.
Yes, he has a very clean voice. I love the highly melodic and epic stuff.... not the growl.
They will have a far wider audience and get played more.... if they don't growl.
I hope Opeth gets big so as many people can hear them as possible. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/28/2006 10:34:32 AM | ^^^^
after hearing some other bands...Akerfeldt's growl isn't all that bad...
...raised on classic rock...I'm not one to like growling vocals....but some of the music is just too good to pass up...I'm conditioned now...almost ignoring the vocals....
...there are some bands that get on my nerves though....Dillinger Escape Plan's vocals are just horrible...Opeth's devilish growls seem REALLY GOOD compared to the rediculous screaming wails of Dillinger....again...the music is great...but the screams make me want to escape!
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/28/2006 12:12:24 PM | I think Åkerfeldt's growl just adds to the power of the climaxes. Take for example 'The Baying of the Hounds', from Ghost Reveries. At 5'24'' there's a takeoff section that's just amazing. Beautiful guitar play with a female voice in the background. Very poweful. And then the growl. Takes it all to a completely new level.
Many people think growling is just ugly, but they don't understand it's artistic value. With a growl you have a powerful voice, you have lyrics, and yet the singer doesn't take away the attention from the guitars.
But I'm never going to talk anyone into liking growl. It's a personal journey. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 11/28/2006 2:09:45 PM | I fell in love with Metallica, discovered NIN and branched out from there.
Lately I've been loving alot of the alternative/industrial that's coming out of the UK and Europe.
Bands to give a listen to:
- VAST
- Wolfsheim
- Zermancer
But mind you, nothing says it like Ozzy. ;) | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 12/3/2006 2:06:29 PM | | Alot of people get turned off my deathmetal at first because they can't understand the vocalist or they don't like how aggresive the music it self is. Alot of the time you have to eas a person into good metal bands, let them build up their taste for the genre so they'll appreciate the more intence bands. Like devourment and and various grindcore bands. Other then that most people don't bother with what they don't know. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 12/7/2006 4:12:01 PM | I have to agree with most of the posts on this topic, I myself have been listening to metal music since my early teens........and I if anything my music tastes are more extreme these days..........alot more so then they were back in the 70's and 80's..........and being female and over 40 its even harder for people to comprehend that I'm into extreme metal at all........most people aren't into metal or will state metal isn't even music...lol........anyhow thats my 2 cents haahhhahah | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 12/7/2006 4:54:46 PM | | started listening to metal in 1980 and never looked back | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 12/7/2006 5:31:32 PM | It is actually quite interesting, because whenever the subject of my musical preferences comes up, you can see the disdain form across a women's face when I mention bands such as Kreator, Sodom, Cannibal Corpse, and some of the newer bands which have crossed my path over the years. When anyone tries to be a proponent of the simplistic intricacies of any type of hip-hop artist or the like, it find it a bit difficult to take them seriously when considering the complete virtuoso-mastery of Nevermore. Dragonforce is OK, however it seems as if they are more interested in showing you how fast they can play guitar sweeps than actually writing good songs.
Anyone here a fan of Municipal Waste? They are opening for Gwar right now. Anyone who has enjoyed the old-school brashness of DRI needs to give these guys a gander. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 12/7/2006 5:31:45 PM | Heavy Metal is a rather complex genre of music. It's the riffs that distinguish hm from other genres, heavy, ideally meaningful riffs. Even 'Death' is accepted among those who dislike gloomy music with growling vocals, since there's a MEANING conveyed thru the prism of their elaborate riffs, a MEANING, that is the words bring up something to think about, while non-commonplace, original riffs keep you grooving. Personally, I prefer something like Dio or Ozzy Osbourne (the 80s), Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, something that is ENERGETIC, powerful, meaningful, SOLO-ful, normally speedy, not monotonous, with HIGH-PITCH vocals.
In general, it's hard to find an album where you like all the songs. That's why, I prefer collections of songs. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 1/4/2007 3:36:23 PM | | i would have to agree it's a love or hate thing-shit my favourite type of music's like that and sam i.Would'nt agree with metal being formulaic-well, maybe the shit bands.Another thing-traditional metal RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, nu-metal not so much, imo. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 1/5/2007 10:44:07 AM | | Metal is good at times but they have no messages (you cant hear what there saying).While the music its self is ok there is no meaning and no point.Songs are best at conveying emotion but metal is just anger or hyperness.Theres no heart no soul just the same songs with difrent screaming in them.Metal is fun for about 5 mins but after that you gotta go somewhere else cause it leaves a lot to be desired | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 1/5/2007 2:44:30 PM | Sephoa- move to edmonton. Its a metal town.
I think the european metal is quite melodic and understandable or maybe i am just used to it. | |
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| heavy metal stigmata
Posted: 1/6/2007 3:57:42 AM | | To me metal like any other music has use in my life, like in bad 80's horror movies or when i am lifting weights. I don't know about Death-metal though. | |
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