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Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > Are Christians The Only Ones Going To Heaven [Thread Closed]      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: Are Christians The Only Ones Going To Heaven [Thread Closed]
 TongFuMstr

Joined: 10/27/2007
Msg: 601
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/2/2008 8:56:01 AM
lberserkerl,

Sin brings power of knowledge. To question God's authority is unethical i guess. However if mankind could reason with eachother they'd be powerfuller than God.


Truth is nevencaneezer, you're never a sinner till you lust after the power sin brings. So a newborn baby wouldn't experience such burdens.

we are all born in[to] sin, as stated and the Bible affirms.
The law brings the knowledge of sin, if sin brings power and sin leads to death, i choose to remain powerless! here's some verses for ya.

James 1:14,15, "14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

Romans 3:20 "Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." (NASB)

powerfuller? do you mean "more powerful?" sorry, i had to, lol!
 romanticoptimist

Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 602
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/2/2008 12:48:46 PM

Repeating something i heard mate... just as the writers of the new testament had done.

Well, if you're interested in actually being educated about what you say, you could try Wikipedia. It's a fair and broad analysis of the dates. You'll find them significantly more accurate and recent than your "what I heard" dating method. Or you could keep on repeating the error and blindly accept what someone else said. Your choice.
 alka-seltsa

Joined: 12/15/2007
Msg: 603
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/2/2008 4:38:26 PM

Well, if you're interested in actually being educated about what you say, you could try Wikipedia. It's a fair and broad analysis of the dates. You'll find them significantly more accurate and recent than your "what I heard" dating method. Or you could keep on repeating the error and blindly accept what someone else said. Your choice.

I did just that... i was quite surprised to find that the end of Mark was added codsiderably later and by another author... yeah, they suggest the gospels being written anything between 30 - 90 AD... in which case i was talking twaddle (as usual) but it begs the questions "How old were the authors?" and "did they still have all their marbles?"
 justAcheckin

Joined: 8/19/2007
Msg: 604
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/2/2008 6:41:47 PM
consigliere31:
You said:

I could accept how the usage of the word 'all' has been explained in your post pertaining to that specific verse.

But in Col.1 I can only accept that 'all' as being the absolute all of everything in existance, because the context of Col. 1 is quite specific on accounting the 'all' as the absolute all of everything in existance.

There are obviously two gatherings of reconciliation by God as specified in Col. 1 There is the futuristic gathering of 'all things' in existance being brought into reconciliation....and there is the reconciliation that is being worked even now in the saints.

Col. 1
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,
20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled


As was explained in my last post there are 7 or eight greek words that translate into the word all. But only one of these greek words actually translate literally to mean; all; whole; or completely.
That Greek word is Holos. And holos is translated into the word "all" 49 times in the NT.
And none of these occure in Luke 3 or Col 1:

You can easily check the concordance to verify this.

The majority of scholars and textural critics agree after having read thousands of manuscripts.

Something else that must be taken into account is the fact Paul was writing to a church which he had never visited and was writing them because of his concerns that pagan ideas were creeping into the church. False teachers had taken elements of paganism and Judaism and created a doctrine that claimed Jesus was just an angelic being. This is why Paul emphasized the deity of Christ in Col 1: 15 - 23.

If Paul had meant the word 'all' in the literal english sense of the word he would have used the Greek word holos. Since he did not we can not make the assumptions or claims that you have.
 consigliere31

Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 605
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/2/2008 7:27:29 PM

As was explained in my last post there are 7 or eight greek words that translate into the word all. But only one of these greek words actually translate literally to mean; all; whole; or completely.
That Greek word is Holos. And holos is translated into the word "all" 49 times in the NT.
And none of these occure in Luke 3 or Col 1:

You can easily check the concordance to verify this.

The majority of scholars and textural critics agree after having read thousands of manuscripts.

Something else that must be taken into account is the fact Paul was writing to a church which he had never visited and was writing them because of his concerns that pagan ideas were creeping into the church. False teachers had taken elements of paganism and Judaism and created a doctrine that claimed Jesus was just an angelic being. This is why Paul emphasized the deity of Christ in Col 1: 15 - 23.

If Paul had meant the word 'all' in the literal english sense of the word he would have used the Greek word holos. Since he did not we can not make the assumptions or claims that you have.


you might want to justcheck this out for yourself justacheckin. For the couple of scriptures that you have shared trying to set a wooden methodolgy with the word...I could dig up probably 3 times as many that do include the absolute all, where the same application is used.

The greek used is 'pas' and it does in fact include the absolute all as its primary definition and not its last option as you are suggesting.


1) individually

a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

2) collectively

a) some of all types



You can research the word yourself here...

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Col&chapter=1&verse=16&version=KJV#16

I paticular like this verse here which uses the same expression...

Matthew 3:15
Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill ALL righteousness." Then John consented.

or is this supposed to also mean only a portion of righteousness is being fulfilled???
 designingwoman

Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 606
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/2/2008 8:10:20 PM
I am actually much closer to God now that I do not believe in Hell or the devil. I feel confident in having a relationship with God, who is a Loving Being of Light. Belief in Hell and the Devil can drive people further AWAY from God, not closer to Him. I like Amy's posts about religious tolerance. God does not belong to one particular religion.
 NeverCanezzer

Joined: 7/11/2007
Msg: 607
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/2/2008 8:19:55 PM
Matthew 3:15
Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill ALL righteousness." Then John consented.

or is this supposed to also mean only a portion of righteousness is being fulfilled???


Consig - when I used that kind of reasoning for the "for ever and ever argument" and then pointed out God lived "for ever and ever" you could not agree -

(Rev 15:7 KJV) And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

(Rev 14:11 KJV) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

You wanted to use eons or ages - So does God live for ages??
 consigliere31

Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 608
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/2/2008 9:02:39 PM

You wanted to use eons or ages - So does God live for ages??


The proper translation is to the ages of ages.

There is no mention of God ceasing to exist when the ages are up, neither does it state that God continues to live., and possibly if there was an exception to allowance of fthe word 'eternity' then Rev 15:7 would most likely be the passage to apply it....however there are scriptures that suggest the Lamb who sits on the throne unto the ages of ages does surrender His throne to the Father in the fulness of the ages...that God may be all in all.
 edge_of_dawn

Joined: 12/18/2007
Msg: 609
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/3/2008 2:33:36 AM
In this "modern" age, humanity will also be consumed by all of the seven deadly sins; pride (we believe more in ourselves than in God), greed (we would anything to make money), sloth (technology makes us lazier), lust (the media encourages us to have sex and more sex), gluttony (restaurants, service, fast food, and all you can eat places), Wrath (the "war" on terror? LOL!), Envy (goes hand in hand with greed, we want what our neighbor has).

How many Christians are really going to heaven now?
 And Can It Be

Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 610
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/4/2008 12:25:34 PM
Edge of Dawn: you list the so-called "seven deadly sins" and then ask how many Christians are going to heaven now? Good grief, man! The seven deadly sins don't even touch on "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" and "Thou shalt not make unto thyself any graven images or bow down to them."

How about: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy strength, and with all thy mind. And thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"?

This thread is too funny. What it takes to get into heaven, in my opinion, is reconciliation with God and perfect obedience to God. How many of us have that? I sure don't have it in and of myself, but I do have it imputed to me through Christ Jesus. And that is how I hope to get into heaven.
 Ravenstar66

Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 611
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/4/2008 12:58:46 PM
How about...none of us really know until we get there.

THAT would be the HONEST answer to this question.

Just my opinion
 GhostKnight007

Joined: 11/4/2007
Msg: 612
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/6/2008 11:35:32 AM
we don't want honesty, we want something to hold over the head of the unlearned masses, so that I I I can get a contribution to the cause.

It is all about my My my
except if you Heard the word of Jesus
but even knowing Jesus I Am an asshole
 Ravenstar66

Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 613
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/6/2008 12:44:40 PM
Thanks for your HONESTY!

:)
 GhostKnight007

Joined: 11/4/2007
Msg: 614
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/11/2008 1:51:37 AM
It is rather (funny) that people are concerned with (going) to heaven. All the Prophets of old talk about "The Love of God", The presence of God, the power of God, etc. being with a people or not with a people. They speak of, if you do not repent and remember God, God will remove his grace from you and calamity will come upon you in the absence of God and death will come upon you.

And what do you need to get to heaven? To Die. And who is the Angel of Death?

It is a kind of funny way of thinking about the God of Life and Love, that you will know life better by death?

Test the spirits to see if they are of God.

Is seems that this pie in the sky philosophy is not in line with the teachings of the Prophets or Jesus. And I always have hope for more life after this that I have.

Jesus ALWAYS said NOW is the kingdom of Heaven.

To put your faith into your greater good after you are dead is deception.
 luuvking

Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 615
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:13:17 AM
Only the Christians who have given their hearts and lives to God and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior will enter into Heaven. Though we may see it as impossible to be perfect we must strive to be like Jesus.You do not get to Heaven by your works, it's by the blood Jesus shed. The reason Jesus was sent to earth to die for man is because God created man in his own image , he loves to be praised and loved through mans own free will but man was not doing a very good job of showing God his love and appreciation , in other words man was turning more and more away from God, as many seem to be doing today but rather than destroy man again, God gave man another undeserved chance because He loved man so much. L
 designingwoman

Joined: 9/4/2005
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:20:38 AM
But what about someone who calls themselves Christian and "accepts Christ" only to turn around and murder someone in cold blood???
 luuvking

Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 617
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:21:12 AM
Not true, we can know in our hearts , if you are saved you know because God's spirit bares witness and you feel and see His hand at work in your daily life, well, if you read the Bible it clearly tells about all the things that are actually happening in the world around us today, Someone knew it was coming,all the turmoil, wars and trouble, the truth is right in there if one takes the time to read it, theres really no way to deny it unless you just refuse to see. So if Someone knew all that was gonna happen then Someone knew also about what the end is gonna be like. Do you know what your end as we know it in this life is gonna be like? L
 luuvking

Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 618
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:25:20 AM
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/12/2008 1112 AM We can know in our hearts , if you are saved you know because God's spirit bares witness and you feel and see His hand at work in your daily life, well, if you read the Bible it clearly tells about all the things that are actually happening in the world around us today, Someone knew it was coming,all the turmoil, wars and trouble, the truth is right in there if one takes the time to read it, theres really no way to deny it unless you just refuse to see. So if Someone knew all that was gonna happen then Someone knew also about what the end is gonna be like. Do you know what your end as we know it in this life is gonna be like? L
 GhostKnight007

Joined: 11/4/2007
Msg: 619
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/12/2008 9:27:28 PM

You do not get to Heaven by your works, it's by the blood Jesus shed

So its about human or as some say God sacrifice?


The reason Jesus was sent to earth to die for man...but man was not doing a very good job of showing God his love


I'm going to just come out and say it was the Devil that led man away from God, but not all men followed the Devil, Enoch, Elijah and Noah come to mind.

So putting it in other words the Devil had control over the world and was paid off by the blood sacrifice of an innocent man/god Jesus. The blood of Jesus was not a gift to God but a payment to the Devil to buy those that were condemned to Hell and Death away from their just rewards. It seems to me that too many people pay too much attention on the blood paid to the Devil and they forget they are the ones that upheld the Devil and empowered him to be in a position to be bought with the blood of an innocent.

This whole blood for the Devil view of God just makes me want to puke.
 Alvin365

Joined: 5/25/2005
Msg: 620
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/13/2008 1:03:24 AM
Christian this word means one thing and one thing only, and that is Christ like, however it has come to this day and age to refer that it implies that you believe in the holy trinity of Christ the son, God the father, and The Holy Ghost, the answer to this, is simply as you believe, i will not claim to define this answer one way or the other, this is an individual search, and we all have free will, and are free to believe as we wish and we can search for our own answers, Id say keep an open mind and be open to find your truth as you see fit, me personally, I am a future ordained spiritualist minister, and as i will tell you so will my teachers, it is Not our job to show you the right path, it is to help you find your own
 chillmale99

Joined: 10/24/2007
Msg: 621
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/29/2008 1:04:20 PM
Unless they lived a pure life and never knew about jesus then no but jesus is the way to heaven
 themadfiddler

Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 622
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/29/2008 2:38:17 PM


Do you believe that when someone dies, they have to be a "Christian" in order to be allowed into Heaven? Just curious as to your thoughts and opinions.


You see the whole problem with this thread is it is going to invite essentially three types of responses:

1) No - because it smacks of exclusivity of truth to insist that the Christian heaven and God and path to salvation is the only "true" way. 1a - includes no because there is no heaven/god/devil.

2) Yes - because I believe (or KNOW) it is - get ready for a flame war and/or post deletions...

3) Flame shots that ensue.

Try to keep in mind from the OP that the Heaven being postulated is not necessarily a Christian heaven however...just an afterlife.

I have no specific beliefs regarding what happens to us after death. I think anyone who has any certainty about it however is delusional. They have nothing to base "certainty" upon. It is possible to have strong faith, surely...but certainty? No, that is the province of the nutter on this topic. I think they, like all of us will be in for a big surprise.



The Devil's Welcoming Speech
Old Nick, played by ROWAN ATKINSON carrying a clipboard, descends stairs amid swirling smoke and screams of anguish. He addresses the audience:


Ah hello! It's nice to see you all here. As the more perceptive of you have probably realised by now, this is Hell, and I am the Devil, good evening, but you can call me Toby, if you like. We try to keep things informal here, as well as infernal. That's just a little joke of mine. I tell it every time.

Now, you're all here for..... Eternity! Ooh, which I hardly need tell you is a heck of a long time, so you'll all get to know each other pretty well by the end.

But for now I'm going to have to split you up in groups.

Will You Stop Screaming!

Thank you.

Now, murderers? Murderers over here, please, thank you. Looters and Pillagers over there. Thieves, if you could join them, and Lawyers, you're in that lot too.

Fornicators - if you could step forward? My God, there are a lot of you! Could I split you up into Adulterers and the rest? Male adulterers, if you could just form a line in front of that small Guillotine in the corner.

Em... The French, are you here? If you would just like to come down here with the Germans. I'm sure you'll have plenty to talk about.

Okay, atheists? Atheists over here please. You must be feeling a right bunch of Nitwits. Never mind.

And finally, Christians. Christians? Ah, yes, I'm sorry but I'm afraid the Jews were right. If you would come down here, that would be really fine.

Okay! Right, well are there any questions? Yes. No, I'm afraid there aren't any toilets. If you read your Bible, you might have seen that it was damnation without relief, so if you did not go before you came, then I'm afraid you're not going to enjoy yourself very much, but then I believe that's the idea.

Okay. Well, it's over to you, Adolf! And I'll catch you all later at the barbecue. Bye!
 TheS0urce

Joined: 1/3/2008
Msg: 623
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/29/2008 4:27:54 PM
Not all christians will go to heaven. If you are bad you can go to heaven? I know plenty of christians that doesn't follow god's words.
 chillmale99

Joined: 10/24/2007
Msg: 624
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 1/29/2008 7:08:40 PM
agree with that one there are bad people everywhere
 WhistlingDixie

Joined: 5/2/2007
Msg: 625
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Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 3/8/2008 6:41:13 PM
Yes, my faith in Christ says I am going to go to the place He has prepared for me.

DW says "But what about someone who calls themselves Christian and "accepts Christ" only to turn around and murder someone in cold blood???"

My answer for this is.. Christ died for my past, present and future sins.. He knows everything about me. All I've ever done and everything I'm going to do. So see, it isnt about me at all.. it's about what He did on the cross at Calvary. His shed blood, death and resurrection is my hope for now and all of eternity. I'm only called to trust Him, feed on His Word, ask Him what He would have me do daily, and follow Him. His Spirit is in my heart, leading guiding and directing my path. I hope I never have my flesh rise up in so much hatred I would ever want to kill anyone.. but the way the elections are going... I may have to change my mind. Just kidding
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