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| Heaven???
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:57:22 PM | Again I say no way in the pit of Hades. God, our savoir (in the veiws of those that are devout believers which I am not) made mankind in his image making all alike his children under HIS own doctrine. It would be a tad hypocritical of our savoir to deny so yes? | |
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| Heaven???
Posted: 4/27/2008 1:36:05 AM | Short answer to this entire topic {I don't feel like whipping out a Bible and playing 'Scripture Tennis' with everyone here}: Yes, Christians {and some Jews that lived before Christ came to Earth} are the only ones that God {Jehovah} said will get to Heaven. If we choose to admit and omnipotent God exists, we must also admit he gets to make the rules, and that includes religion. Jesus says something to the effect of, "there is no other way, only my way or the highway" and that's the choice you get.
Short Response to the 5.9 Billion people who disagree: Don't like it? Fine. Don't agree? Fine. But the "Christians are the only ones who go to Heaven" argument has more than a little Biblical backing, so if you're going to believe in Jehovah, you kind of have to get in line with this. | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 4/27/2008 4:32:43 AM | Mentally impared you say.Well, I was in a coma for six weeks and a cotholicc priest read me my last rights. I immeadiatly woke up. I heard everything that was going on. I remembered everything that happened to me when I was in my coma. I totally believe in Christ. Had that priest not prayed a payer of faith as he did, maybe I wouldn't be here right now. J. E. S. U. S.  | |
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| Heaven???
Posted: 4/27/2008 10:09:55 AM |
Short answer to this entire topic {I don't feel like whipping out a Bible and playing 'Scripture Tennis' with everyone here}: Yes, Christians {and some Jews that lived before Christ came to Earth} are the only ones that God {Jehovah} said will get to Heaven. If we choose to admit and omnipotent God exists, we must also admit he gets to make the rules, and that includes religion. Jesus says something to the effect of, "there is no other way, only my way or the highway" and that's the choice you get.
Short Response to the 5.9 Billion people who disagree: Don't like it? Fine. Don't agree? Fine. But the "Christians are the only ones who go to Heaven" argument has more than a little Biblical backing, so if you're going to believe in Jehovah, you kind of have to get in line with this.
sorry pal, but you don't have a leg to stand on scripturally regarding your dogmatic religios view. You couldn't play scripture tennis with this if you tried, .....not on a level of a real debate regarding this topic, that is for sure. And the scriptures have been served , thus far only those who chose to manipulate and twist them to fit thier own agenda and doctrine have attempted to serve the scriptures back, and usually with venom I might add.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Romans 5
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
This thread is getting quite repetitive.
If we choose to admit and omnipotent God exists, we must also admit he gets to make the rules, and that includes religion.
Yes we must agree that God makes the rules...we can only seek out what they are. But bringing God down to our levels of judgment is not following His rules, it is making God follow our rules. God rules His kingdom by grace. If we want to follow the rules of the kingdom, then get in line with the spiritual authority of God's grace. | |
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| Heaven???
Posted: 7/25/2008 7:53:11 PM | Nope. By their own doctrine they are not the only ones going to heaven...this is hypocritical... | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/25/2008 9:40:26 PM | | everyone seems to think that only members of whatever faith that they're practicing will have salvation. this is a crock of @@@@. if we were all meant to look alike, act alike, think alike, and believe alike, we would have been made this way. close minded fundamentalism is bad no matter where it's coming from. it all breeds hatred and prejudice. wacko muslims who think this way are ruining my faith and making us all look like terrorists with no regard for life what-so-ever. we are all equal in G-d's eyes and the second we allow ourselves to forget this, hatred, intolerance, and prejudice will be the result. | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/26/2008 10:32:05 AM | HRH Queen B has hit the nail on the head with her comments. Fundamentalism, no matter what religion, is a problem that breeds hatred.
I second Ray. The Tabernacle's music is fantastic!
We all "make it" eventually, if not right away.  God is kind and merciful. (I've seen that phrase in the Bible AND the Koran)
Peace and blessings to all | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/28/2008 12:32:36 PM | | I can't get my head around there being a God at all, but I do believe in life after death. For sure, if there is anything anywhere after, we are all going. See You There!!!!! | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:24:49 PM | ^^disturbed by the 10 posts directly above by 'blessed lady', copying something from youtube, somehow implying that because it was translated into several languages that it is fact or truth....nevermind they have broken the forum rule of only 2 in 10 posts of any one poster is allowed....and here somehow she managed to post 11 in a row?!
to bring this back on topic, which was the question by the op
Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
I believe no, Christians are not only the ones going to Heaven - if there is a heaven that we go to. I believe we are all connected, no matter what religious or spiritual path or paths we travel....for all 'true' paths I have found all lead to the same truths - that we are all connected and heaven and hell are here on earth in terms of our mental and emotional and physical and spiritual states of mind, heart and being. | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:38:20 PM | WTF was THAT?
And how did it get past the Mods?
I'm not sure about the "christian" heaven.. from what I read it's a state of mind and heart. I do believe SOMETHING occurs after death, but whether that is just a change from one form of energy to another or the personality survives and creates it's own reality from it's beliefs.. I don't know. Haven't been there yet.
Guess I'll find out someday, or not...
maybe I should be more concerned with what's happening right now
Peace | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/29/2008 7:14:51 PM | Thinking about this a bit more - I don't believe anyone here can answer the OP's question as fact....only opinion...unless they've gone to 'heaven' and interviewed everyone there to see if, indeed they are all Christians. And what religious faith is God anyway? Isn't it really only possible that it is all faiths? Or at least it can't be just Christian for it is the same God in the bible that Jews believe in also.
And to the poster above who wrote this below - do you not include the Old Testament as part of your bible? It does not say the only way to reach God is by going through Jesus. And yet it comes from God also.
To me, for anyone to believe theirs' is the only truth and to condemn all others with different beliefs is my idea of hell.
I strongly disagree with his statement I've pasted below. I have no problem with the idea that for many believing their path to God is through Jesus has brought them what they need, but to tell me that is my only path for salvation too is what I have problems with....just as I'm sure this poster would have problems with me and the religions dogma I was raised with that did not honor Jesus at all as 'the son of God'....I was raised with the the blind belief that the people of my religions were 'the Chosen People'....and yet I personally can not respect any religion that puts up walls and divides people spiritually and so completely. My spiritual path really says from all sides now, we are all connected and so, if we are one, then either we're all going to heaven or no one is....if there is such a place to go to in the next realm.
I have also come to believe that most religions these days have been so modified from the original and done so as a way to control the masses. If everyone felt they could not reach God without a middle man, then they would not realize their own divine power.
Well, we are all divine and divinely and directly connected to the source is my belief. And I do mean All of us, not just those from 'my faith' or my colour skin, or my geographical area of the world, or from my background, or who shares my values and beliefs, religious or otherwise. So, I highly disagree with this statement -
Our salvation is through Jesus Christ our lord. Believe what you will the truth has been given in Gods word. The truth is not determined by who believes it. It Just IS, Just like God IS
EDIT to add: yay, just realized the mods did indeed find and removed those posts above that had snuck in here somehow...so now they jump from message 684 - 695. | |
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| Heaven???
Posted: 7/29/2008 7:21:06 PM |
Can someone show me in the bible what heaven is?
Actually, the bible states that heaven is where God alone sits on his throne, there is no mention of a throne for Jesus in this 'heaven', at all, in the bible.
Here is another way to look at it, have you ever thought, if what they(Christians) believe is true of course, what are we all gonna be doing in heaven?
Some say we will be sitting at The Lord Jesus Christ's feet for eternity (jezzus, that's gotta be boring, for Him, huh?) others that we will be floating around heaven aimlessly on clouds, whaaaat? floating? aimlessly?
hmmmmm.....sounds a bit metaphorish to me.
but, I haven't been there yet, I'll let y'all know , K?
Kimbo~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | |
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| Heaven???
Posted: 7/29/2008 9:09:48 PM |
Christian is a man made word. It is the relationship to God we are called back to. As Christians we stand on the Bible as the word of God and according to our beliefs as true bible believing Christians Their is but one way to God through Jesus Christ our lord. He is not a universal God. he has said it is to be done his way and obedience is key.
Each person has the right to choose rightly or wrongly. Choose you this day. It doesn't matter what unbelievers choose to believe it doesn't change Gods truth from what it is.
The truth is not determined by who believes it.
Actually 'Christian' is a word that means 'beleiver in the trinity' in the current age. You can't join a Christian Church that doesn't have the trinity or the 'Nicene Creed' in its articles of faith, but you can choose LDS and a few others. LDS says they are Christian, but they need to realize that the word has stood for 'trinity believers' for 1700 years, and that they are one of the first denominations to claim Jesus and reject the trinity. Many Unitarians reject the Trinity, and also try to call themselves Christian. Neither one is, technically a 'Christian.' They are followers of Jesus.
I have a different God than even them, but Jesus is my Master, as in HeadMaster of a school. My God is Truth, and I learned this through the parables of Jesus. They are marvelously written riddles, or Koans, as the Zen call them; that lead men to real truth, and expose charlatans for what they really are. I have chosen my God, and even your God cannot defeat him, he can only equal him. Even he cannot change the truth. You are correct in your closing remarks:
"It doesn't matter what unbelievers choose to believe it doesn't change Gods truth from what it is. The truth is not determined by who believes it. "
Bump head, feel pain. Finger on hot stove, burn. Truth.
Topic: Heaven Answer: Afterlife you meet the Spirits who saw everything you did. | |
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| Heaven???
Posted: 7/29/2008 9:11:13 PM | Only God knows, and He will determines who will go to Heaven. He loves us, and wants us all to be with Him. He has given us a way to do it. Jesus is the way, but He said in matth 7 that it's a narrow gate, a difficult way, and that only few find it. Why is it so hard and so difficult for some? Because most people want to do it their way......
Oh, not sure all what we will be doing there, but I don't think it's sitting on your butt, or floating around..... | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/30/2008 6:53:40 AM |
"It doesn't matter what unbelievers choose to believe it doesn't change Gods truth from what it is. The truth is not determined by who believes it. "
The 'truth' is written in all ways through all religions and spiritual paths, many that go back much longer than when the bible(s) were written.
What makes your truth any more truthful than mine, or those in Tibet, or China, or Japan, or the Native Americans' , through the Tao or Buddhism or Catholocism or Christianity or Judaiism or Zen, or Hindu or the Aboriginal spiritual truths and many others?
When it comes to things no one can prove, like spiritual matters, it always come down to one's beliefs. It is all belief that makes you believe you are speaking truth, as it is my belief that I follow as to what resonates as truth in me.
I would never say your truth is wrong, for I respect you have as much right to your beliefs of what is truth as I would hope you have for my choices too.
But, alas, that fundamental 'problem' with many seem to be they want others to take their word as 'thee truth' when they are closed to listen and consider everyone has the right to their own beliefs.
All ancient 'religions' all say the same thing - that we are one and all connected. Dividing humanity between the 'shoulds' who can go to heaven according to your beliefs is not truth to me or in accordance with the Spiritual paths I have been taught here in my life.
I am not saying you are wrong for your spiritual beliefs. I am saying you are wrong for telling me or strongly implying I am wrong for mine. | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/30/2008 7:05:00 AM |
The Bible tells us their is but one way to God. Through Jesus Christ our Lord. AngelHunt, Would you be kind enough to point out the where it says there is but one way to God, through Jesus. I'm pretty familiar with the scriptures, and well aware that in the New Testament Jesus claims divinity. So I do not begrudge Christians their belief that Chistianity is A path to God. And I certainly agree that " The truth is not determined by who believes it. It Just IS, Just like God IS" Very consistent with my belief.
But I can find little support for claims of exclusivity. Most of what seem to be claims of exclusivity are quotes out of context, easily resolved if one reads the surrounding text.
For example, the most famous line: John 14:6
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." contines with the next line: 7"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. "
when Philip questions him Jesus continues
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
The point is that Jesus is not claiming to be the one way to God. He's claiming to Be God!
This is a claim of divinity, not exclusivity. | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/30/2008 7:52:25 AM | ^^^
The point is that Jesus is not claiming to be the one way to God. He's claiming to Be God!
This is a claim of divinity, not exclusivity.
Exactly and as with all ancient truths - all is divine......God or Spirit is in all, as all is in God. Jesus was speaking for all humanity, is my understanding. Furthermore, as so many Christians just seem to ignore, Jesus was Jewish...Christianity was termed afterwards, but perhaps that issue is secondary.
Whatever it is called, the truths I have found from all I have studied and experienced (and the study comes from my Zen, Native American, African, Jewish, the Tao, Buddhism, and my own sense of what resonates as truth in me)...they basically all say,
'God is eternal, is in all of us, is in everything, and is one.'
So, this is why I answer the OP's question, "no, Christians are not the only ones 'going to heaven"....we all are, or none of us are.....for we are all connected, no matter what spiritual path or faith you align yourself with or call yourself.
As you all say, truth is truth.
And yet, how can truth seem so full of paradoxes and still be truth as seen through the eyes of each person? Because I believe it is belief that makes it truth for you...or not. | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/30/2008 9:49:03 AM | ^^you say
"....This is why it is so important we believe in God and his omnipotence. Every time man says I will do it my way over Gods way he separates himself from God. And puts himself in the place of God. Choose you this day whom you will SERVE..."
You misunderstand me. I believe in God and his omnipotence. I have never said I will do anything 'over God's way' at all. I would never say I am greater than God - I am saying I and everyone are of God...part of God....some have put it, "individuated aspects of the One [source, God]". I am saying, as you are, I am not separate...I am saying that no one is separate. I would never imagine putting myself in the place of God....I imagine we are all intertwined with God. | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/30/2008 9:49:51 AM | First, on a very personal note, I knew a Jewish guy who called himself "Bear" a few years ago, and we chatted a lot about things, but mostly stocks on a message board. I thought the "Bear" name came because he was a Chicago fan, and I see you live in Dayton. I should probably look on a map and see if Dayton is close to Chicago, but I'll just await your reply, since I know there aren't any teams in Dayton.
"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. "
You might need to read a lot of my posts to find out how I draw the conclusion, but Jesus is stating that he is a sincere and genuine person, and that he knows the truth. If you knew that I was sincere and genuine, you would know that I am telling you the truth.
I know the metaphor is difficult for someone who is looking for literals. It took me 47 years to come to the answer, and another four to know that the Spirits and the afterlife were true. I had doubts about the sincerity of Jesus before. I have none at this time.
I don't believe he was son of god, but he was a wise and talented wordsmith who understood that many people had gone off the deep end in superstition, and wanted to turn their faith back towards 'reasoned and qualified truth.' Having faith in such a teacher is the 'light burden' which I carry. | |
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| Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven???
Posted: 7/30/2008 10:20:15 AM |
* Sorry folks but due to the sheer number of people that can't resist telling others what to believe (Exclusivity of Truth posts/Preaching) and return trips to this thread, I'm shutting it down. A warning to those who like to "preach the Word" on these forums...have a good long hard look at our rules, especially these.* TheMadFiddler - PoF Forum Moderator | |
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