| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 5:15:41 AM | I had a situation where this rather attractive woman was "Flashing" me even though I didn't see it.
I was filing some stuff, I guess I was behind a stack of shelves when this happened, but her co-worker told me, "Hey, Tammy just flashed you"
Instead of saying, "Darn it, I didn't see it, could you do it again so I can put you in my Spank-a-dex?"
Came VERY close to saying that...though she was "asking for it". But I said something like, "That's nice" or whatever.
I could have been lured by them, who knows.
HELL even a THIRD party can see to co-workers flirting with each other, and THEY can turn one of them in. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 5:23:14 AM | Very good write-up Ron...truth be told! ;-)
However...the restaurant industry is an entirely different matter, I mean I don' t know what goes on there....but typically male employees are always flirting, making their moves on cute waitresses at the Chilis or TGIFridays
It's almost Hedonistic in nature at these min wage jobs..I really dont know if sexual harassment is enforced at these min wage jobs...however, I figured they dont' have anything to lose, because that's a great place to meet women.
I heard some guy on the radio that workers are always having sex with other co-workers and such. The Restaurant industy is a bit more lax I believe when it comes to that. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 5:26:28 AM | I got fired for reporting sexual harassment. Not a minimum wage job, but security isn't that far above the poverty line.
Pretty bad when ME of all people gets offended and has to report something. I give it as good as I get it, but I draw the line at being touched or attacked physically without me consenting to it.
As for flirting...women really need to get over themselves, it's sexual harassment AFTER you have told him that his attention is unwanted. Just because a guy is ugly or not your type, doesn't make it sexual harassment. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 5:30:20 AM | Unfortunately, Tera.....I agree with you. LOL.
I believe that it should be considered sex harassment if the woman actually tells the person to stop. But if she doesn't yeild, just keep on massagin' I guess.
All you have to do is LOOK at a woman funny (which happened in my case) and get your butt called out on the carpet. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 5:56:22 AM | I have yet to encounter any man or woman who says "i do not want you flirting with me, i am not interested and please discontinue it" or anything of the sort. Mostly people are too polite and say nothing.
i agree that if it is firmly stated as above or similar to it then it's sexual harassment, other than that...it's just flirting. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 6:17:21 AM |
Sidhean....and others
I was wondering, when I was working someplace..I would always see the IT guy going up behind an attractive woman and giving her a "shoulder massage". Luckily she was letting him do it. and was enjoying it. LOL
This is a pretty common thing in some workplaces.
since you directed this at me, i'll answer it. did you read my post in its entirety? the situation i spoke of was regarding unprovoked sexual advances, that continued after i said no. i wasn't wishy-washy about it either. i said, "no, i'm not interested", but he chose to disregard that because he outranks me(captain). after i finally got rude about it, which was apparently the only thing he can understand, he started giving me shit, AND HE STILL HITS ON ME. the only people who get to touch me at work are my friends, and these people know who they are. they also know what the limits are to the touching thing, and they don't cross the line. we respect each other and each others boundaries.
what you seem to be implying is the same as the op, and it's insulting. the implication is that if i found the person attractive, then his behavior would be acceptable, which isn't the case. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 6:30:29 AM | | you missed the point. what you are talking about is something that apparently went down between two people who knew each other, and both knew it was ok. i sometimes trade backrubs with the people i work closely with. it's a friendly thing, not a sexual thing, because we have worked closely for a long time and are comfortable with each other. that took more than a year to develope, however, to reach that level of comfort, and the people i'm talking about are very careful to make sure that their actions aren't being taken in a bad way. anything i had a problem with, they wouldn't do anymore. the person i had a problem with made unwanted, unasked-for advances, and refused to take no for an answer. i considered his intiial approach rude, but would have gotten over it if he had taken no for an answer and proceeded to treat me in a professional manner. he didn't - hence the problem. he is a macho asshole who assumes that rank carries priviledges. | |
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RitzNB
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Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 37 | |
| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 8:02:02 AM | | Ron: I believe that men & women can make mistakes. That they sometimes go through a bad phase in their life. Whether it be temporarily drinking themselves into a frenzy or acting out and doing stuff they would never do. I'm sure part of this man's behavior was related to liquor. The important thing is he turned his life around. People can and do change when they are ready. Sometimes it takes a major wake up call for them to do so. Loosing his family and kids probably made him realize what he had and lost. I'm glad he's a productive part of society again. I admire the lady who was involved for believing in herself enough to not compromise her own beliefs and values. That's integrity. I couldn't imagine still being a virgin at that age. I guess I enjoy sex too much for that. There's also peer pressure. Alot of men will want to sleep with this lady just because they want to be the one to take her virginity. To turn her around as some men might put it. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 10:16:38 AM | However, trading backrubs in the workplace regardless of wether it is wanted or UNwanted is considered Sexual Harrassement by HR standards.
It doesn't have to be UNwanted to be considered Sexual harassment.
If someone sees you 2 giving each other backrubs, they can turn you in. Though it is kinda BS...but it does lack professionalism. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 10:27:09 AM | Since sexual harassment is continued and unwarranted sexual advances, insults, etc., I'd have to say that it basically boils down to this: If the woman does NOT react positively to a man's approaches, and he continues to present sexual advances, that is harassment, whether he's cute, ugly, has a cone head, or looks like Tom Cruise. It's unimportant the reason why the woman does not welcome the sexual comments, etc. What is important is that she does not welcome them, and they need to cease instantly.
Does that make any sense at all? | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 11:06:00 AM | Just my 2 cents... not the whole dollar as is typical....
I suspect that a part of the problem with what I would call the minor stuff, (meaning were one is flirting with the other,) is that men and women quite often do not understand the the other's body language.
So lack of a clear message is too often interptreted as at least "permission" (bad word choice I know, but I just woke up) to continue.
My opinion would be that if one flirts with the other, and the other does not like it, they should SAY so. To say that they should know by they way they look really does not work if the way they look is not understood.
If the person continues, then it is harrassment.
My own position has always been one bordering on paranoia when it comes ot the work enviroment. Since I tend to be an happy go lucky, outgoing, jovial type, I have occasionally had friends teasingly accuse me of flirting. Truth be told, I dont know how to flirt. But I have heard of way too many cases were someone, (sorry ladies, it is usually the women) cry harrassment over just about nothing, causing a lot of problems.
Now. if the guy (typically the accused) is phoning you at home, or will not take no for an answer, or is touching you inappropriately, (ex patting your behind) then never mind the gentle I dont like it. A forcful "back off" is in order, and usually a harassment complaint to go with it.
As for the question about the poster in lunch room... My opinion would be that it is not sexual harassment. Unprofessional, inappropiate, poor taste, bad idea, and a bunch of other things... but harassment. That of course is my opinion, not necessarily what the HR policy would be. Unfortunately "policys" an "laws" often go overboard in an attempt to try and please everybody. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 11:36:30 AM | re: sidhe's work problem
This could be worst possible advice but I couldn't help thinking about it.
You said he's married. have you tried makng freinds with his wife? Never mention the problem to her. Just hang out with the woman a bit. She could possibly use a friend too from the way it sounds.
He wants to move from professioal to personal, he loses his boss points. Trump his ace. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 11:51:39 AM | | you're right. that's lousy advice. i have no intention of getting personally involved with this person on any level. i will never meet his wife, and don't want to. this guy is not my direct superior, as he is security and i am ems, but i have to interact with him on occasion. the way i handle him is to always be purely professional around him. i also try to make sure that i'm never alone with him. i also never give him the impression that he can intimidate me, because i don't get intimidated, and because that is the quickest way to make sure you have to put up with a lot of crap. most of the people who want security jobs are the same kind of macho ***holes who want to be cops, and these will exploit any weakness if you show it. i am not and never have been the kind of person who deals with things indirectly. i am a very up-front person and am not afraid of confrontation, but i don't believe in cutting my own throat either. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 12:03:25 PM | | Well, Ritz, this is one big reason I never had much to do with women. They are an unknown, and best avoided in my opinion. A man should always be on guard for women who would take one little thing the wrong way, and accuse him of harrassment. There are always a few out there who may just want to burn a guy down because they are man-haters. They may have reasons to lead them on, then bury them which represents a man-eater of the worst kind. I have never completely trusted a woman. There are probably only 5 or 6 I would ever have trusted. No, a cardinal rule of mine at work is no messin around, and no jokin around with any woman who might be suspect. It's just better for a man not to be so needy. I definitely move slow, and never did assume that anything other than tact, and decency are the main goals when talkin or dealin with a woman. I trust no one, and hopefully that will save me from makin stupid mistakes. I'm not lookin, and never did very much. Women are not essential to my life. Yet I've known some that have always been very honest and in time learn to trust them. But always keep your guard up. Lots of guys say stupid things to women, and are just asking for a put-down. I advise all men to walk carefully around women, and don't expect things. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 12:12:00 PM | Ya gotta wonder what his face would look like if when he saw you having tea with his wife in his livingroom though.
I guess I intended the comment more as a revenge fantasy than as a game plan. It sounds, upon further description, like the guy is more distasteful than truely dangerous at any rate. Part of being in a medical field is working around really smelly stuff occasionally and it sounds like he's one of them. | |
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