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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/26/2006 4:05:44 AM | This is a very interesting discussion but let's examine the content. People have had many statements about the first date. Many talked about tradition. I would like to hear why men should pay for every date( some women feel that--- why?)
When I was young, there were many role traditions. One was that women do not play hockey. One was that women never approach men to dance or go out. Another was that "good girls " do not have sex before marriage. Why have these traditions been dropped and some women feel that situations around money should be maintained?
Some women feel that if a male makes more money then he should pay. In todays world, women have equal opportunity for education, for the most part, job opportunity. If a women directs her life, be it the result of her choosing to have sex and becoming pregnant, and does not earn a sufficient income, why should the male shoulder the financial responsibility?
Do not be selective when choose which traditions shold be kept.
By the way, I have old fashoned values and do pay. This is one part of the macho world that makes me feel more masculine.
My only other question is-- Why do people not make an attempt to use correct spelling or appropriate punctuation? Tradition was that these skills indicated a person's level of education and a person's pride in how he/she presents him or herself. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/27/2006 12:12:41 PM | | I think that some of you are referring to being in a relationship rather than the first date. Of course, in a relationship the bill is divided or you takes turns with who pays. As women, we also like to shop and we have no problem picking up something for our man we are in a relationship with and paying for it also. But any man that would ask me to pay on the first date, no matter how attracted I was to him or he to me, would never ever get another date with me. I would consider this guy to be a user, cheap, and a very much a loser! Get for real guys! Maybe you should go to mommy's for dinner if you're that broke! And please stop trying to date until you can afford it! | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/27/2006 12:49:55 PM | Settler,
You make some valid and interesting points.
If you were referring to my comment on income disparity, then I think you took it out of context a bit. If a man who makes $125,000 a year chooses to date the sweet waitress that he met over the woman that commands a competetive salary to his own, then yes I believe that he should be the one to foot the bill. I believe that a relationship that begins with huge income discrepancies is a formula for a troubled relationship, because the person that is always paying out of pocket will feel entitled to make the rules, and the other person couldl be regarded as a subordinate or even worse a sponge, when they do not defer to the power of the financier.
Regarding the pregnant women, they did not get pregnant all on their own! Some men don't step up to the plate and handle their share of personal accountability, while the mother knows for certain it is her child, duh, obviously. But any Maury show will tell you that there are countless cases where the men have no idea who is carrying their seeds, and the women have no idea who planted them.
Regarding tradition, I have had some pretty terrible dates:
When I was in high school, my boyfriend and I went out to dinner at a Chinese restaurant, and I was using my Burger King wages to pay for it (I was 15 and he was 17). He "made" me slip him the money under the table so that he could pay the check so that he would not "look bad."
Once, and this was probably the very worst date of my life, and it was so bad from start to finish, that my waitress went home and told her roommate how bad she felt for this poor girl whose date was such an ***hole! This was around 10 years ago. He did not have a car, so I picked him up. However, before we went to the restaurant, he insisted on driving, because he would look bad to have a woman driving her own car and have him, without a car, looking like a low life. Now, I would never give up the car keys, but I also would never be accepting a date from suck a LOSER and a JERK!
Those are examples of tradition where it is important to "look like a man" to others. But if one wants to look like a man, then why don't they simply act like a man and be a man!
Regarding spelling and grammar, I don't know why others care, but I personally cringe when I discover I have submitted a grammatical error or a typo, and try to keep my American Heritage Dictionary (with the word entymologies) at my fingertips, in case I am in doubt of spelling, want to know a word origin, or am unsure of its meaning. In my case, I think it is just because I am a bit of a Dork that way. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/27/2006 12:53:43 PM | Sure I can pay for my own dinner and I do, but I won't be sitting next to a man. If you ask me out, bring your wallet, and again we are talking about first dates here people. Sorry, I'm not a feminist and I could care less to make them proud. You men should be proud to pick up the bill for a lady and enjoy her company. After all, she is sitting next to you and making you look good.
And princess, I've had guys do that to me also. Want me to give them money before we enter a place so that it looks like they are paying. WTF! Losers! Are all the broke men replying to this post? Seems like it.  | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/27/2006 12:59:01 PM | So no matter how long we date I will be expected to pay for your company? Sounds more like a hooker than a date.
Conversely, if the man is someone worth dating for you, shouldn't you be equally proud to be seen with him? Therefore, using your logic, you should be willing to pay for him. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/27/2006 1:57:29 PM | newandreadyforu,
When I am ready for a Boy Toy, then I will fully foot the bill all of the time. In another twenty years, I will be supporting some 25 year-old Stud that makes me look like a dirty old woman, which I will be.
Right now, I use young men for sex and old men for money, because I am a "tweener".
Of course, I am just kidding. If I were like that, I would have been a "kept woman" a long time ago!
The whole equation really seems to begin to be settling on WHO one is, and WHAT one is looking for (and for the record, I hate leaving dangling prepositions, which probably matters to no one except me).
Some people are looking for Easy Street, and that goes for both genders in today's world. Others are looking for the Real Deal.
Another story: I had been dating a man for years, and he never took me anywhere and we never went out, AND he made easily $50,000 more than I did annually. Finally, I asked him if he wanted to go out to dinner. We went to a nice place. He ordered an appetizer, a couple of imported beers, one of the most expensive entrees, and when the check came, he handed it to me, and left the tip.
I would have been content to pay my own way, but when I took umbrage to his contirbution, he defended himself, saying that I had asked him out! I don't mind treating, but in this case, the request had been prefaced with the complaint that he never took me anywhere and it was about time to go out. Bottom line: He was CHEAP.
In addition, I have seen at bars, as a former bartender, when a woman is drinking a glass of wine, and a man offers to buy her a drink, her order a double top shelf drink. Have any of you seen that commercial, where a woman walks to the bar, a guy buys her a drink, and she delivers Heinekins to her brother and his buddy. It works both ways in an "equal" society.
I am able to see both sides of the argument.
There is a reggae song from which here is an excerpt: "If her Daddy's rich take her out for a meal; if her Daddy's poor, just do what you feel."
Personally, I want the Fairy Tale, and I do not want to settle for less. Down side of that utopian request is that Fairy Tales are fiction, and they do not exist. So, I need to answer for myself, how much am I willing to settle for less than the Perfect Dream.
Good luck to all! | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/27/2006 2:08:52 PM | | Bendilin, does that means you always wait to have your orgasm AFTER the woman does since the fun usually stops after the man "comes" but keeps going and going after a woman has her climax? If you do wait every time, the money and the sexual enjoyment would be equal right? It must be safe to assume you always wait for her to have a climax before you have yours in this era of equality. As long as the sexual enjoyment is equal on both sides, sharing the tab would be fair too. The only other solutions would be a platonic relationship or having lots of viagra or cialis on hand. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/27/2006 3:12:20 PM | Quote; "WTF! Losers! Are all the broke men replying to this post? Seems like it."
Well, I paid for the dates, the wedding, the house, the SUV and everything else.. Why you ask? Because she was worth it.. And I'd do it again for the right gal. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/27/2006 3:18:34 PM | oh comon you people are taking the spark outa romance and are rewriting history ...
if a guy was to expect me to pay id say laters!
offcourse a date is a date and a man should be a gent thats what its all about relationships are different id be quite happy to pay for my bf whenever or take turns... | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/27/2006 10:51:51 PM | Thank Goodness there are men in this country who know how to make money.
Tommy Hilfiger started out selling T-shirts out of his car & look where he is. What's wrong with the wussie men here...financially impotent! | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/28/2006 5:17:27 PM | For me personally lol I dont care at all. The first date, ok maybe.. and nothing elaborate after all it is the first date. I like being creative with dates and it not costing much money, and when going out it's fun to pay for yourself, or you pay for the guy once in a while? I mean like why not? What year is it?
BUT, it is also nice when your in a concrete relationship to get little special surprises here and there...doesnt half to be bought, even special gestures to keep that feel of romance :) | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/28/2006 10:11:13 PM | Ever since the beginning, men have paid for the ladies way on a date, for the man is supposed to prove to the lady that he can some day be a providor.What the heck is all this making the woman pay all about.The problem with this world is too many women like to make the men feel like they do not need a man and that is where it all began.
Now men have been taken by so many women in the past and vice versa that people just do not trust anyone any more.I am from the old school as well.If a man ever expected me to pay for a date, he would never get another date from me again.I expect my date to pay my way until we were married.That is the way it was meant to be...Sorry guys... | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 12:29:49 AM | I believe in equality. I work hard to succeed in my career, and I expect a woman to match that. If I pay for today, she pays for tomorrow. If I paid the dinner, she pays the drinks afterwards. It's give and take. I make enough money, but I'm looking for an equal partner, not a dependent. I don't pay for a woman's attention. If I wanted that, I'd just get a hooker.
On a first date, whoever does the asking out is expected to pay. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 1:34:18 AM | When men start having babies, then we'll be getting closer to being equal. Until then, this is just foolishness.
It isn't prostitution to pay for a date!
What you get from a hooker is her body not her attention.
If men and women are really being equally paid, why are the top ten paid CEO's men (see Forbes)?
I don't pay for dates. My choice.
HT | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 12:02:19 PM | Heavenly turtle:
If men and women are really being equally paid, why are the top ten paid CEO's men (see Forbes)?
I don't pay for dates. My choice.
Are you saying that you expect equal pay for equal work, but expect the man to always pay for a woman? If that is what you are suggesting, it sounds somewhat contradictory. Women fought for equal pay, and fully deserve it. Perhaps it's a generational thing. I grew up in the post equal pay world, and thus expect shared financial responsibilities. If a woman can make just as much as I can, why am I expected to pay for her? When I get married and have kids, she should expect me to share the child raising responsibilities. I don't expect her to raise our kids by herself. Maybe it's generational, maybe it's a personal thing, but I expect an equal partnership, with shared responsibilities. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 5:25:56 PM | Just because we women are working and earning an income you now want us to pay for dates? So that if we do get into a relationship with you we are then expected to do all the woman things around the house too. When the laundry, cooking, cleaning, diaper changing, staying home from work to care for our sick children are divided equally then maybe the dinner bills on dates should be too! As women we stand up to our role and do these things. Maybe you should stand up to your role and try being a man! What the hell do you cheap a**holes expect from us anyways? WTF, You guys make me want to barf!  | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 5:49:07 PM | Wow........ that is all I can say about Migirls post. Wow........
We are talking about dating here, not about anything else. Dating is about finding someone you can build a relationship with, possibly finding that person you can build a life with. Shouldn't both people contribute somewhat to that endeavor?
No man here has suggested that a woman should pay for all dating, most of dating or even a large portion of the dating. What has been suggested here is that the woman should contribute in some way to the dating costs or to the costs of a date. Offer to buy a drink, some ice cream after a walk in the park, buy the stuff to make me a nice dinner. I don't think that is asking too much.
Most of us men in my age bracket have financial responsibilities that go far beyond dating. Aside form the basics of hosing, food and transportation costs most of us have child support that we pay faithfully. Try having 20% - 40% of your salary dedicated to paying your child support. See what a dent it puts in your financial picture.
You somehow feel it is important for us to spend money on you to show you that we care about you and that you are special to us. If that is the barometer by which you measure our attraction to you what is it that you do to show us your attraction? You let us take you out and spend money on you?
I don't mind at all spending money on someone I am dating. I, like most men that have posted here, think that is nice and only fair that the woman offer at some time to share some of the costs. I really don't think that is asking too much.
As for standing up to our roles I think we meen do that just fine. If our role is the traditional gender responsibilities. We fix things, do the heavy lifting, the yard work, etc. Why does doing all of that obligate us to pay for everything in a dating situation?
The traditional dating model of men paying for everything existed when women were not in the work place and did not have any disposable income. Now that women are firmly entrenched in the workplace there is nothing worng with some financial equality in dating. Just as there is nothing wrong with the man sharing in the domestic chaores if there is a shared housing situation.
That being said, when I date I still pay for 95% of the time. But, if on occasion, the woman does offer to pay, I just might let her. Doesn't mean I care for her less. In fact, it is a sign that I respect her. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 6:13:37 PM | | Wow, all I can say is Wow to your post Newandready. You may be new but you sure aren't ready. Well we women have housing, transportation and food costs also. And most of the women out there also have been left to care for children and get no means of child support what so ever. Try adding child care, school lunches, school activity fees, clothing, food for our children, Christmas, and birthdays to our costs as well. Child support doesn't even come close to paying for all these expenses. I happen to get child support but alot of women don't. You originally stated you had 25% taken from your salary for Child support, now you're saying 20-40%. If you can't afford children then stop having them, period. And if you can't afford to date then stop dating. Again, WTF do you cheap a**holes expect from us women? | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 6:31:17 PM | Migirl...perhaps you should quell your bitterness before you post and think before you react. Personal assaults are not needed to make your point.
For your information my child support is not taken directly from my check, I pay it directly to my Ex Wife. Additionally, I have always paid more than my fair share of child support. As a matter of fact Illinois law dictates that I pay 20% and I am voluntarily paying 25%. Before my Ex became engaged and her fiance moved in with them I was paying closer to 30% so that my Son could live where he needed to and have what he needed to be comfortable. So, before you start casting aspersions about someones character you should know the facts.
The child support that I pay to my Ex goes to lunches, clothing, food etc so that is not a cost she bares alone.
I would say that you are wildly incorrect when you state that most women do not recieve child support. I know there are some that don't, but those are far from most.
I am sorry you are so bitter about this topic. But I will thank you for stopping your personal attacks in a civil discussion. They are uncalled for and you don't know me to be able to cast such aspersions on the quality of father that i am or how I handle my financial responsibilities to my Son. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 6:45:37 PM | | I think maybe you should scroll up and see who personally attacked who first here. And this is a discussion about paying for first dates, in which you started whinning about your bills. Whaa Whaa I'm simply giving my oppinion just like you are and if you don't like it stop your whinning. Who cares about your bills, we all have them. And who cares that you pay child support. I just stated to that comment that your child support doesn't even come close to the cost of raising your child and that's a fact. So I'll stick to the facts. Whaaa Whaaa Whaaa | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 6:54:15 PM | migirlhere:
Just because we women are working and earning an income you now want us to pay for dates?
Sure, why not? I'm not asking for anything more than an equal partnership. I'm not talking about spliting bills down to the last penny, but if I paid for dinner, how about she picks up the drinks. Or if I paid for the coffee, she pays for the ice cream after the walk, etc. Sounds fair enough to me.
So that if we do get into a relationship with you we are then expected to do all the woman things around the house too.
Who said anything about that? I certainly don't expect a woman to cook and clean for me, because I do that myself. But I would expect her to help me out around the house, doing her fair share. Again, I'm looking for an equal partnership and shared responsibilities in all aspects of a relationship. We split economic as well as household duties. | |
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| women and why they think men should buy everything ????
Posted: 10/29/2006 7:30:20 PM | | I would buy any man dinner if I could watch him dust, do dishes, laundry, clean the bathroom and sweep. I've never seen that in my life when they are in a relationship with someone. Sure when they live alone they may have no choice but to do those things or pay someone, but as soon as they get a woman, it's all over. Most of the time a bachelor's place is a royal mess. Who wants to live like that? And doing it once a month does not contribute equal share. Some of you are taking this equal thing a little too far and fact is you're the one's who don't do your equal share. That is all I'm trying to get at here. I've actually went to mens houses I've dated and cleaned up their place the past. Good lord, it needed it! So get out your wallet and pay for dinner. That's getting off cheap by the way. And of course, I do have a negative oppinion of any man who would ask me out on a date and expect me to pay. That is just wrong! Are all the cheap losers posting to this, I don't get it! | |
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