| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/3/2008 9:37:49 PM | I think I already addressed the obey thing earlier...thats not true about the upper body strength. We still have the same requirements as men. I HAVE NOT FAILED ANY TEST, NOR HAS ANY FEMALE IN OUR STATION...We train rigorously with a fellow firefighter trainer. I have no problem carrying 200 lbs, or dragging a full sized man out of a house....our tools are heavy, our hoses are charged with water.. it was extremely heavy with nozzles and couplings,.... its tough, to walk around with them and transport them into a building.....add the steps in there too...26 steps up and down 20 times with full gear on. I think you just like to put down women, because it makes you feel good about yourself.The guys and gals at our station range from 15 to 69. When I read the old timers your song and dance here...they busted out laughing because you are full of sh#@. These are third and fourth generation FF that know what the standards have been all along and not one of them believed what you said here. They said arm wrestling is for sissys, and you wouldn't make it through 5 minutes of hose hockey. By the way they value me for my teamwork, integrity and whats inside not my looks. But thanks for the compliment...you missed the point. I wouldn't obey you for a million bucks...or anyone for that matter.I don't need a man to protect me when I can do this for myself. We aren't living in roman times. Love and honor to me are greater than this.  | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/3/2008 9:44:28 PM | Then come up with your own vows if the standard doesn't suit you.
I obeyed. She didn't. Now I'm here. Think it only works one way? | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/3/2008 9:50:43 PM | | my cousin got married in the mountains of North Carolina. They are still pretty old fashioned there and the preacher said will you obey and my cousin said." OH YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!" We all broke up in laughter. It was really funny. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/3/2008 9:50:53 PM | | Too bad the OBEY part is gone. Look at all the divorces today. Look at all the wayward kids who don't know their ass from their elbow. Obey was there for centuries for a reason. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/3/2008 10:03:51 PM | In the CORRECT version of the "traditional vows"
Obey is in both sides...
There are times when the woman should obey the man... and times when the man should obey the woman.
The trick is to figure out which time is which.
If you come up with a sure-fire way to tell... you win.
The prize is a happy, healthy relationship.
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/3/2008 10:15:27 PM | I don't care which side it's "supposed" to be directed at.
If the word "OBEY" were slipped into the vow's,I'm outta there.
And hopefully my S/O would follow or vice/versa.
Playing it out as a joke is one thing but,seriously this is'nt the 50's.
And to suggest putting it back in would curtail divorces?
What planet are you from man?
I'm not a pet and would'nt treat someone like one either. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 6:54:29 AM | | Having your children obey you and making your spouse obey you are two different things I feel. You should approach your children as a couple..equal in parenting..agreeable on how you want to handle things. Your children should obey you as they need boundaries for their life...spouses are supposedly already grown up and have these tools already..I don't think obeying or disobeying your spouse (unless he is a neanderthal living in the dark ages)... adds to the divorce rate...I hear the word OBEY and think of Yul Brenner ordering moses around in the ten commandments lol! I also think of a slave which is a sad connection of that word for me. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 9:47:57 AM | | Whats wrong with obey? it means respect, comply, submit and conform to. If people were to follow that as they should, their would be no divorces and happy marriages, and no POF. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 10:21:06 AM | "language is a virus from outer space"
It depends what the couple take the words to mean...
hopefully in the twenty first century they mean both partners committing to obey the spirit of what ever they are mutually agreeing to... | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 10:41:53 AM | How about they commit to love, respect and honor eachother...not bark orders and obey whomever is the most dominant, because it will come down to that. The most dominant wins..the other is oppressed. That doesn't sound like love to me..I would rather a man be with me because he lovingly WANTS to be..not because he ordered me to...obey. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 10:52:39 AM | I aam not a dog and I am sure as hell not marrying one.Obeidience is what you train dos for...people are supposed to be houseroken already.
Many of you asume that wedding vows simply mean to not cheat. Nope. The vows are arcaic. They go back to when women were treated as cattle. I prefere the wiccan vows and handfasting if you ask me. Far more romantic in my opinion. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 7:50:52 PM | maybe the couple were into S&M....or they are very very old fashioned...hmmm think that still means M on the part of the W and S on the part of the M....guess S&M is actually an old fashioned concept....i think i have had an epiphany on POF  | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 8:01:01 PM | look out this guy thinks his road to happiness is someone who conforms to who he wants them to be? or how they should act? think? will submit to his command?...orders?...will comply to his?....gotta stop even thinking about that horrible vision now...barf barf...no one controls this girl and she does not obey, submit or comply...how caveman like...learn to appreciate rather than denigrate...that is the road to happiness
gotta love this crazy cyberworld | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 8:26:02 PM | warmthnpassion:
The origin of Love, Honor and Obey go back to ancient times. The Old Testament talks about it. The first example being how Adam did not control his wife and let her eat of the apple which was not a great move according to God.
The basic gist of the obey part is that if you obey, you will be protected.
I think you are contradicting yourself here, warmthnpassion. Is a woman supposed to obey in order to be protected? Or is her obedience necessary so that man (Adam) can "control" her?
And sorry to point this out, but even that is not what happens in the OT. Adam wasn't accused by God of failing to control Eve; his sin was in being influenced by Eve to eat the apple...which is a different thing. In fact, God didn't say that men should rule women until AFTER the apple was eaten--being ruled by her husband was Eve's PUNISHMENT for eating the apple herself and then tempting Adam with it. So....sin happened NOT because of man's failure to RULE woman, but because of the inability of both Adam and Eve to resist temptation--right?
If you believe that women should be PUNISHED for the crime in Eden by being "ruled" by men--and it WAS a punishment according to Genesis--just because this is what Genesis 3 says, then fine...
But even so, that isn't the same thing as being PROTECTED. If fact, if you take Genesis at its actual words--man sinned because of the temptation posed by woman--then the REASON for man's rule over woman (established by God) is SELF-protection....because of women's ability to tempt men... | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 11:23:35 PM | I would have more of a problem with a woman who believed all of the religeous mumbo jumbo long before I was concerned about her disobedience.
As for obedience, it surely depends upon which fommands you make:
"Sit" Well, probably 30% of the time
"Beg" I doubt it
"Stay" Hmm, probably works best with "close your eyes I have a surprise"
"roll over" You have to pick the right moment, but it does enable you to both watch the TV. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/4/2008 11:27:39 PM |
I would have more of a problem with a woman who believed all of the religeous mumbo jumbo long before I was concerned about her disobedience.
Well indeed. That's basically the point, isn't it. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/5/2008 8:05:48 AM | jeanieweeman wrote: How about they commit to love,
respect and honor each other... not bark orders and
obey whomever is the most dominant, because it will
come down to that.
If anyone is barking orders, the marriage isn't going to work.
Direction must come from a loving, calm, happy leader,
according to St. Paul's scripture on marital gender roles.
jeanieweeman wrote: The most dominant wins... the other is oppressed.
Right, if the dominant one is not loving. The person who
loves considers what is best for the relationship, not what
is best for him. When a woman marries a selfish oppressor,
the fault is in her choice of husband, not with the power structure.
jeanieweeman wrote: That doesn't sound like love to me.
You're correct. Having to obey a person who doesn't love you
is tyranny at its worst.
jeanieweeman wrote: I would rather a man be with me
because he lovingly WANTS to be.. not because he ordered
me to...obey
The person with the most power must be obeyed if he
decides to press the point, otherwise you hit the road.
It's an unavoidable feature of reality.
You can reach agreement before you enter the relationship,
or wait until a non-negotiable conflict comes along.
fredhh wrote: In the CORRECT version of the "traditional vows"
Obey is in both sides... There are times when the woman should
obey the man... and times when the man should obey the woman.
The trick is to figure out which time is which.
Let the husband decide. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/5/2008 11:15:09 AM | Is it just me or does that word "obedience" make others cringe as well? I hate to hear it being said, specially in the context of marriage. I'm such a feminist that my husband will probably end up obeying me! lol! In our vows, he can say obey and I'll just go with "I promise to love and not kill you"  | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/5/2008 11:34:12 AM | > Is it just me or does that word "obedience" make others cringe as well?
Only when it's the other "person" wielding the frying pan or the big kitchen knife...
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/5/2008 11:42:34 AM | | I'd switch the word obey with "collaborate and use common sense and not be a stubborn nincompoop". I can promise that to the best of my ability. It would also show my SO has a sense of humour which is a pre-requisite for the ceremony. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/5/2008 2:02:00 PM |
Whats wrong with obey? it means respect, comply, submit and conform to. If people were to follow that as they should, their would be no divorces and happy marriages, and no POF.
If you really think there were no unhappy marriages when "obey" was in the marriage vows, I have some oceanfront property in Saskatoon to sell you. People just stuck it out instead of divorcing.
No way in heck would this chickie ever promise to obey a man. Not going to happen. If I ever do get married - and I'm not looking to - I would want to use the phrase "love, honour and cherish" for both me and my spouse to be (unless he came up with an equally good one). | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/5/2008 3:56:08 PM | | Thank you David..yes it has to be in the context of love and compassion for one another..."Love one another as I have loved you". A man in my life will be loved as I have loved God and he will be loved as he has loved me. I would hope I find the right guy BEFORE I get to this crossing...its a matter of trust...you learn from one another how to love freely and with a whole heart...it will come back to you if they are the right person. We reap what we sow...if its done with love respect and honor...it will grow a lovely garden made from two people... | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/12/2008 11:41:43 AM | In response to Kixxie, I wholeheartedly agree! I respect anyone, male or female who believes in the principles of equality. Isn't it ironic that in today's society there seems to be so much enlightened attitudes in regards to the equality amongst people of different races and cultural backgrounds, even the acceptance of gays, but there are so many people who still believe that women are second-class citizens. A beleif and attitude that is so pervasive here in american society today. Hey wait a minute, doesn't the principles of equality, which is really derived from democracy itself apply to women?
Those who complain about women having too much freedom, or women not being submissive enough should consider moving to another country and see what it is truly like when the genders are not treated equally or fairly. Wasn't it not too long ago that a woman was arrested at a starbucks in Saudi Arabia for sitting next to a man who was not her husband or related to her? Is that the kind of society that they like? This all begins in the home. Haven't you ever heard that the family is a "microcosim of
society?" Marriages are merely a reflection of the societies that they reside in. In a liberal democracy, marriages are more egalitarian in nature, as they are a reflection of the very core principles of democracy itself. On the other hand, marriages that are are hierarchal, patriarchal in nature are usually found in countries that are less democratic or authoritarian in nature. IE: Saudi Arabia? Afghanistan? Or in despotic countries: IE: The Congo. Darfur, ect.. See the connection? | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/12/2008 12:34:49 PM |
Seemed like they were getting married to their dog!
Indeed... This sounds like a master/slave relationship. Who was the one who must be answered "yes" to?
Male or female? ....or the one who has the most money?
Dynamics of power in any relationship are different... and so I believe it's always been.... | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/12/2008 3:53:20 PM | | Sorry..but I will never "obey" any man....I have always respected my vows, and my spouse..but if he told me to do anything and said I had to obey him...ohh no way!! | |
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