|
|
|
|
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 10/17/2006 3:40:42 PM | §püngl䧧
My previous post says that it is not said unless you want it or if you make up your own vows Back when i was a alterboy you could still use your own vows All i am saying is that the Obey is not one sided and should never be taken as such it is meant for both people involved.... | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 10/17/2006 3:58:53 PM | OK since i was a alter boy they have changed the Vows i was wrong So here is the vows as they stand now...
eddings in Roman Catholicism are sacred and a sacrament. Here are some samples of Catholic wedding vows.
The bridegroom says:
I, N., take you, N., to be my wife. I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.
The bride says: I, N., take you, N., to be my husband. I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.
Or: "I, ________, take you ______, for my lawful wife/husband, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part."
Rings:
N., take this ring as a sign of my love and fidelity. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
well it has been 20yrs since i was a alterboy | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 10/17/2006 4:12:57 PM | | how we view the defination of the word 'obey' nowadays goes to show you just how much times have changed (shrugs shoulders) | |
|
Anno41
|
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 29 | |
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 10/17/2006 10:03:04 PM | I have a cousin who joined a pentecostal church because her boyfriend who decided to leave her "to find himself" after their child was born ended up in that church. The women in that church are not allowed to wear pants, cut, color, perm or otherwise style their hair, or wear makeup. They ended up marrying in that church and I attended the service. Damn near lost my lunch too. The vows were all about her obeying and submitting to him. The words obey and submit were used NUMEROUS times. His vow to her was to love her. I just got more and more furious as the ceremony went on. I think those people are worshipping a phallus more than they are worshipping God. When the ceremony was over, I didn't stick around for the receiving line or the reception as I couldn't congratulate my cousin for voluntarily taking on the role of a doormat. I later found out that my extended family thought I left because there was no alcohol served at the reception. Excuse me?
I am not a drinker to begin with. When I told my aunt why I had really left, she didn't believe that any of those things were said. They had a videotape of the service so I told her maybe she should watch it and pay attention this time. As it turned out, her husband is verbally abusive to her. I think he is physically abusive as well as he does have a record of domestic violence with his first wife. I guess at one point she wanted to divorce him and discussed it with their pastor and he forbade her to do so. Nice that a church should condone violence against women. I believe they encourage it as well. | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 10/17/2006 11:10:22 PM | hi all i here is everybody saying that times have changed. well maybe times have but the Bibles has not it says in 1 Corinthians 7-2 "says nevertheless because of sexual immoralitly let each man have his own wife and let each husband have her own husband" 7-3 says " let the husband render to his wife the affection due her and likewise also he wife to her husband 7-4" says the wife does not have authority over her own body but the husband does and like wise the husband does not have authority over his own body but the wife does. marriage is suppose to be 2 becoming 1 you work together on a marriage bu the husband is over the family like God in heaven is over the church. it is not so the man can have the woman barefoot and pregnant all the time but the man is th stronger sex that is how God made us. because women are made to be softer and the man is the strong protector. i know what you are thinking i don't want people to think of me a weak person but that is the way it is. i know some people don't believe in Lord God in heaven (Jesus Chirst) but i do and i believe in the Bible. it is not my job to prove that the Bible is true you have to believe it through faith but i just wanted to let ya'll know a little bit of the Bible i thank God that i could write this little bit to you and maybe God will touch someone's heart with it   | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 4:32:32 PM | Hummmm, Obey, yes I do, but lately it's yes or no. I don't ask obey questions.
I like could you, or would you, or maybe if you, and if it don't happen so be it, if it's really important I do it my self.
when it comes to sex pleasing each other is automatic, ask and you shall receive..... | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 4:37:11 PM | | Traditionally women did obey because they were considered chattel.. lovely word isn't it?.. to know you are valued less than the hunting dog, or the cow in the pasture?? I would never allow that word in a vow, but it is the traditonal vow.. You can request the vows be changed as you see fit.. To love, honor, hang on it's gonna be a bumpy ride.. Or my favorite, cross your fingers hope to die... | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 4:44:02 PM | wow da hitman I was married more than 20 years ago and those words were considered outdated THEN. I believe the couple can alter the vows so I have to wonder if it was their choice or they just didn't think about those words.
I agree it sounds like a command you'd give your dog. By any chance was the dog the ring bearer or included in the ceremony? LMAO  | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 4:52:55 PM | Once upon a time women were considered property. Marriage contracts were usually a financial transaction. A lot of bargaining would take place before a marriage to settle on the bride price, with the poor female the pawn of it all. They had little choice in the matter of whom they would marry. "Love is for the poor for they do not care if they starve, because they already are", was the belief.
When they were led down the altar, they would seem to be so docile. The truth is that some were usually drugged so that they wouldn't run away. The practice of being veiled was embraced as a way that the groom wouldn't see the bride's tears. The women would have to say out loud that they would love, honor and OBEY the man who now was their husband and that was that.
Those were the days............... | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 4:53:30 PM | Some women don't find that insulting. And some also don't think it's disrespectful. It's all personal preference. If someone is getting married with a more traditional marriage in mind, those words are very appropriate. I am not one who wants, requires or desires equality in my marriage/LTR (at least not in the current sense of equality.) He's the man, I'm the woman. I'm perfectly happy letting him make the head-of-household decisions and I have found that I have benefitted in the past for having my preferences. I have a voice, I have my opinions, but I am much happier making the house a home than worrying about the daily decision making processes. My choice isn't right for everyone, but for me, I wouldn't do it any other way. I guess the "obey" thing doesn't offend me, because I have yet to meet a man who felt I was beneath him in any way.
If someone doesn't like that terminology, they don't have to allow it into their vows. However, if someone chooses to leave that in their vows, I find it rather insulting that others take offense. If you aren't saying those particular vows, why be offended?
Kat  | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 5:09:25 PM | If a man loves the woman he is marrying like he should, there wouldn't be a problem with the woman obeying her husband.
A man is meant to love his wife as he loves himself, as a result if he truly does, he will not ask her to do anything that would be wrong for her. A loving man will always want to do what is best for his family.
It may make some angry but the truth of the matter is, that it is better to have one person that is the leader of the household, and traditionaly it is the man.
Bottom line if a family decides their family will be a tradional family with the husband being the head of household/provider/protecter and the woman being the one that makes a home and cares for the family there isn't anything wrong with it, and others should respect it. | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 5:18:09 PM | The woman saying obey goes back to the old days when the wife was property. Most women rightly leave that word out of the vows.
Marriage now is a true partnership, or at least it is meant to be. I think the cherish idea works better. Even changing it to "respect" doesnt sit well with me. Unless it is used by both people. If only one says it then you know the other will abuse that promise of respect.
That post above talking about the repeated use of OBEY and SUBMIT is pretty sick. Then again women always tend to get the worst of a deal when it comes to religious fundamentalism, no matter the religion.
I think the old "man & wife" declaration has also been changed to "husband & wife". Not sure about when its a gay wedding. Im guessing it would be "partners for life" or something similar.
The vows are only meant to be important to those taking them. The church or the person preforming the ceremony shouldnt pressure them to include certain phrases. Times have changed and people should be free, both should be free to choose their vows. | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 5:22:03 PM | Most of the traditional vows are taken either from scripture or other religious documents. There was a time when it was considered the status quo for a wife to be in subjection to and submit to her husband. There was a time when women couldn't vote.
If you want to use a traditional vow, then use it, or write your own. While it IS a vow, legally your marriage will be subject to the laws of original jurisdiction wherever you get married.  | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 5:25:21 PM | | This is not new... its a very common, old fashioned thing to say at a cerimony. At one point, the man was considered the head of the household, afterall. :P | |
|
Maxhal
|
Joined: 11/2/2006
Msg: 40 | |
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 5:25:28 PM | What if you believe that the word Obey simply means to put the needs of another before the needs of yourself.
Two people pledging to put the needs of the other ahead of their own. Isn't this exactly what marriage is all about? | |
|
| |
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 6:37:19 PM | are not the vows "love honour and obey " said to both the man and the woman individually ?
sort of sounds equel there to me -- they both make the same promise
- I may be wrong feel free to correct me if i am | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 6:37:24 PM | sorry double post again
when did mid 80's hairstyles come back in fashion ? and the shoulder pads in your blouse
? ( post below me )
or is that like a 20 year old picture ?
| |
|
| |
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 7:07:28 PM | Hey roo...I DID google it...frig, didn't get any good links. But my daddy was a minister his entire life and as a notary, I did marry one couple. I couldn't find the vows that I was looking for, and I may be wrong...it DOES happen. But I really do think that the traditional vows ARE different in that the female part of it is obey.
And yes I'm a "modern" woman (whatever that means haha) and I wouldn't have any objection to that myself. As confusing as that may appear or seem, I would only consider being with or marrying a man who was a partner. And all for equality and all, I still love to celebrate the differences rather than to fight about it. When it comes to be, the battle of the sexes is already lost before it started. And when I do marry again, if the vows we choose says obey, no problem for me, I wouldn't want or desire a man to obey me and I think i'm smart enough to already have chosen a partner that it wouldn't even be a discussion, fight or argument. My parents married almost 60 years ago, God bless them, they're both gone and I'm sure their marriage vows included those words.
And I was blessed to have lived with that model, my dad never in all his years of success, awards and accolades, never accepted them without sharing them with my mother. It was a partnership, they both did what was best for them and the family. Something that I hold as a model that I will emulate, proudly. | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 9:14:50 PM | | To obey is to give mutual respect and admiration. Not to submit to someone's "power". It means to be considerate of each others feelings, learn and respect each others boundaries. It does not mean either partner being a doormat. | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 9:19:26 PM | To Anno41 -
[quote}I have a cousin who joined a pentecostal church because her boyfriend who decided to leave her "to find himself" after their child was born ended up in that church. The women in that church are not allowed to wear pants, cut, color, perm or otherwise style their hair, or wear makeup. They ended up marrying in that church and I attended the service. Damn near lost my lunch too. The vows were all about her obeying and submitting to him. The words obey and submit were used NUMEROUS times. His vow to her was to love her. I just got more and more furious as the ceremony went on. I think those people are worshipping a phallus more than they are worshipping God. When the ceremony was over, I didn't stick around for the receiving line or the reception as I couldn't congratulate my cousin for voluntarily taking on the role of a doormat. I later found out that my extended family thought I left because there was no alcohol served at the reception. Excuse me?
I am not a drinker to begin with. When I told my aunt why I had really left, she didn't believe that any of those things were said. They had a videotape of the service so I told her maybe she should watch it and pay attention this time. As it turned out, her husband is verbally abusive to her. I think he is physically abusive as well as he does have a record of domestic violence with his first wife. I guess at one point she wanted to divorce him and discussed it with their pastor and he forbade her to do so. Nice that a church should condone violence against women. I believe they encourage it as well.
Anno, I can not agree more with you. A real marriage is based on mutuality in love, respect, admiration, and accepting each other as we are. Not requiring one to be completely sumissive to the other. What if the husband told his wife to start wearing a burqah, etc.? Kind of sounds like the Taliban. Scary thought.
From what you wrote, you know what you're not looking for in a partner. That's good! Keep looking, take your time and the right guy will be there. | |
|
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/15/2006 9:24:54 PM | Its been that way since the dawn of time, Obey sayth the lord, we ate a fruit of the vine and bang kicked out. We are to love first, honor next and Obey. nothing wrong with me listening to the lady now is there?
LOL.
What? You thought she was going to listen to me. Paradox I have three of them for breakfast and 2 for lunch and one for dinner, now there is the midnight snacks. | |
|
| |
| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 11/16/2006 3:40:04 AM | | Culture and faiths change -- so do the words they choose. Obey is a concept originally rooted in a time when women were second class citizens, -- servants of their husbands. This simply isn't the way our culture currently does things. Some wish to "choose" to oblige by traditional concepts -- and you must remember, they've "chosen" to do it, and if they wish to, they won't see it as being "Forced" -- they'll see it as a choice, for that's what they vowed to. Any husband of sound mind and heart will understand that his wife will not "always" obey even if she vowed, for a woman is equally capable and intelligent in providing insight and guidance to her husband, as he is with her. A good man, knows that truth, as it's easily observable. | |
|
|
| Page 2 of 17
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 |
|
Home
login 
