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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/8/2008 10:41:47 AM | I am not certain how I feel about marriage anymore... quite ambivalent actually, so it shall be interesting to see where my opinion on it evolves.
However, a partnership involves subjugating yourself to needs beyond your own, otherwise why bother? | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/10/2008 2:35:36 PM |
pbear511 wrote: "obey" doesn't belong in a wedding vow.
cherish, honour, respect..any other number of words fit much better..
I take it then you'd wait until a conflict arises before you work out
the obedience issue. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/10/2008 6:24:20 PM |
I also jokingly suggested the wedding march be replaced by The Imperial March from Star Wars..and in retrospect, it was perfect for her.
 That is the best thing I've read on here today! I think if I ever find someone twisted and daring enough to marry me, I will insist on having that as our wedding march. Perfect for me, being a scifi fan! Maybe I'll wear that white dress like Princess Leia... | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/10/2008 6:31:48 PM |
the obedience issue
Obedience shouldn't BE an issue, in a PARTNERSHIP. In what sense is there a partnership when one individual has the "final say" in every aspect of a relationship? If the relationship progresses to the point of marriage, both parties need to agree before taking any vows that compromise and negotiation will be de rigeur in conflict resolution.
Otherwise, why not just adopt a wife or marry someone with an IQ of 25? | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/10/2008 7:53:04 PM | It's unhealthy for one spouse to have their way on everything.
The submissive partner needs to be given power in ways
that are important to them in accordance with the dominant
partner's master plan. The issue of obedience arises when
compromise and negotiation fail. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/10/2008 8:06:00 PM | | Any "master plan" between 2 people should be worked out by BOTH parties...unless you're referring to a strictly D/S relationship. Sounds like Ultimate Control Freakdom otherwise. Seriously..."given power in ways ...in accordance with the dominant partner's master plan" is really nothing more than the "dominant partner's" manipulative way of continuing to control everything. In this scenario, there's no compromise OR negotiation. Guess who's going to have a hissy fit when he/she doesn't get their way - after being so accustomed to getting it? | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/11/2008 6:58:53 AM |
weaselontoast wrote: Any "master plan" between 2 people
should be worked out by BOTH parties...
Correct. For the agreement to be valid, both parties must freely and
voluntarily give informed consent without force, fraud, deceit, duress,
constraint or coercion. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/11/2008 7:09:30 AM | For you folks who like this topic - let me suggest a great book - "Every Man's Marriage" by Fred Stoeker & Stephen Arteburn. Most Christian men who want to be "Obeyed" would CHOKE on this book. Yes, in a Christian marriage the man IS the head of the household, but he is also supposed to place his wife's needs above his own, and he is held accountable to God for his actions as well as the salvation of his family.
Yes, a wife is supposed to submit to her husband, but the husband is also supposed to submit to the wife. In other words they submit to one another, just is slightly different ways. It creates a blancing act - kind of like the separation of powers in our government.
A good Christian marriage is supposed to be like a candy cane. You have a red stripe, and a white stripe. The red stripe may be the dominate color, but without equal amounts of white, you have one jacked up candy cane.
Being the head of the household does NOT give ANY man the right to trample his wife emotionally, physically, or spiritually.
Mark
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/11/2008 9:15:34 AM | When I was married I made sure that they left out the "obey" part. They will if you ask them to you know...lol.
Those vows were created a long time ago..I think it's time they made new ones.
Anyay, I loved him, and honoured him right up untill the day he passed on.
If I ever get married again I hope that we can both write our own vows. Much more personal.
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/11/2008 2:46:40 PM |
Yes, in a Christian marriage the man IS the head of the household, but he is also supposed to place his wife's needs above his own
Thank you Swamp Hunter - the problem is that too many "Christian" men are NOT informed about the entirety of this directive, (having not READ the Bible, but only gleaning what others have told them, and to their own advantage). A great many take only the privileges and none of the responsibility - thus we get "I'm the man, obey me" - which, as you point out, is really less than half the bargain.
Misinformation or refusal to research is in fact, a major reason why so many people really don't know what "Christian" means - they take fragments of the text...and usually only those fragments which clearly benefit themselves. Some will say that slavery, for instance, is approved by God because it appears in the Bible...and use this as an excuse to be racist. Enslavement of nations who lost a land dispute is hardly the same as forcibly ejecting unsuspecting citizens of another country for selfish and inhuman gain.
Text without context is a pretext for disaster. Read it all or hang it up. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/11/2008 7:32:42 PM |
I was at a wedding last weekend and these words were uttered as part of the ceremony...
Seemed like they were getting married to their dog!
Well if you don't love someone or think you love, then I say yes you are right it would be like getting married to their dog.
the 3 promises mentioned are for both to do.
Personally I think that's what I want. A man who is my SLAVE and at the same time My KING. and vice versa.
If You truly love you will honour and obey, the only thing; is there such thing as True Love | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/12/2008 5:18:35 AM | | i always find it amusing the women who get insulted by the word obey......thats what traditional marriage is about, the wife respecting her husband enough to obey him, my dad is old skool and we talked one day and he said the definition of a good woman, is not the one that cooks and cleans and has dinner ready and all that crap, its the one who can do as her man asks even if she does not agree with it, i say if you got a problem with the word obey or traditional marriage values then you should not be getting married but just my two cents | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/12/2008 7:05:38 AM | | ^^^^ And I say if a man cannot honor agreements and commitments he has willing made in good faith then all bets are off and a woman can do as she d*** well pleases. I never thought I would be in a marriage with a man who wanted a the whole "traditional" submission thing but that's who I fell in love with and what I agreed to do. All I asked in return was that he should hear me out (cuz even Moses was told by God to heed the counsel of his wife) and that we have some basic agreements regarding finances unless he wanted to contribute 100% to my support while not lowering my standard of living. When he didn't live up to that agreement he disrespected me and it was pretty much downhill from there. I don't feel the least bit bad about my efforts or lack thereof, but I expect I'll get an earful of his regrets when he gets to that step and he probably still won't touch on the things which hurt me the most. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/12/2008 7:26:48 AM | well I think that is a very personal thing and to each his/her own in what they are ready to say and commit to their marriage , I know that when I get married these will be my vows to the man I adore and love with all my heart that is a gift from God that I am eternally grateful that he sent him into my life.
I ****, take you ,****, to be my husband. With the greatest joy I come into my new life with you. Today I am reminded of James 1:17 which says,
"Every good thing bestowed and every prefect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shifting shadows."
Besides the gift of salvation, you are the most precious gift God has given me. I know that along with the new joys God has given me, I face new responsibilities that I cannot fulfill in my own strength. But by God's grace and power working within me, I desire to be trustworthy as your wife , to serve and to love you in all circumstances, to obey you, to allow God to use you to build His qualities in me, as long as God gives us life on this earth. I praise God continually for you, ****, and for your love and friendship. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/12/2008 9:04:42 AM | | Read your Bible. Marriage is a creation of God and therefore is based on the Bible. The Bible tells a woman to obey her husband in the same place where it tells a man to love his wife with all his heart and show it in his actions. If you're going to trash that verse of scripture then trash both parts of it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If a woman should not obey her husband then a man should not love his wife. Then what have you got? You may have a business arrangement or a social agreement, but no matter what you call it, you won't have a divinely sanctioned marriage. Oh well, you've kicked God out of every thing else, you might as well kick Him out of marriage too. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/12/2008 9:28:54 AM |
Pragmatically, obedience can only be pledged to one person.
........... LOL!!
David Lewis,
I was wondering who would notice that and see how absurd it is. Makes me wonder how many people really pay attention on these things.
You get the silver star for observation. Congrats. (would have been gold, but you thought I was serious.) | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/12/2008 6:20:45 PM | If people tell you to do mutually contradictory things,
I don't see how you can obey more than one of them
at a time, but I cordially welcome evidence to the contrary. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/13/2008 6:39:21 AM |
If people tell you to do mutually contradictory things,
I don't see how you can obey more than one of them
at a time, but I cordially welcome evidence to the contrary. Exactly, which is why I was joking.
Did you not catch that?
.... hmmmm. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/13/2008 7:17:05 AM |
You may have a business arrangement or a social agreement, but no matter what you call it, you won't have a divinely sanctioned marriage.
Oh boo freakin hoo! What makes it "divinely sanctioned"? Loading her up on a camel and transporting her to the middle of nowhere so she has no place to go, no one to turn to, and he can do as he pleases without regard for her and claim it as his divine right? Welcome to the 21st century, darlin. Women can earn a living and own property so husbands are a choice, not a necessity, so marriage IS a business arrangement and social agreement. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/13/2008 8:41:52 AM | | If we still had the love, honor and OBEY women would still only be in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant...there are so many marriage lyrics nowadays that show the love, honor and MUTUAL RESPECT for each other that the word OBEY does not have to be in it..............the word OBEY has been done to death in many many threads throughout these forums and what it means, sheesh | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/13/2008 8:58:57 AM | | First of all, it sounds like the Priest was the one who required the obedience. And, Biblically, the woman should obey the man, and the man puts the woman first. If he meets his obligation, then there should be no trouble with trusting him to be in charge. | |
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| To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 2/13/2008 3:56:50 PM | | Why does someone need to be in charge? I thought communication and coming to a mutually agreed answer was the healthy way to go? | |
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