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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/19/2007 2:41:04 AM | Anchises:
I am assuming no such thing. What I am saying is that people often assume monogamy is love when they are not always equal, and people also assume that love needs to equal monogamy, when it is not necessary. They are not mutually exclusive terms. One is not required for the other to exist.
I could be monogamous with someone and not love them. I could love someone and not be monogamous with them.
Perhaps my mistake was in using the term "men" and "women" instead of people. I was in no way saying that all men view all women as "sex vending machines". What I was saying was that not everyone who has sex with someone is in love with them (and, on that topic, not everyone wants or needs to be in love with every person with whom they have sex). I in no way was saying that all men act in any way.
And I'm sorry if you disagree that many people stay "faithful" to their partners only because they fear losing their partner because of their desire to be sexual with other people, but I know too many who have been in this situation to pretend it doesn't exist. Did you know that approximately 50% of married men in the US will cheat on their partner at least once in their marriage? Fifty percent! Does this say that at least half of all men are pigs or sex addicts or horrible people? No! I would bet the statistics are similar for women... What it means is that people are lying to their partners. I believe most are either in unhappy relationships to begin with and are scared to leave, or are for the most part happy with their spouse and too scared of losing them by expressing an honest interest in sex with other partners. | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/19/2007 2:52:34 AM | And why doesn't everyone stop jumping on lovingwino here LOL.... Calling her "deluded", sheesh!
As long as she is comfortable with her partner having emotional relationships with other people, why should she have a problem with it??? This is about negotiation, people. You sit down with your partner and you say "this is what I'm comfortable with, this is what I'm not comfortable with". Then you ask them "is there anything on the 'not comfortable' list that is important to you?"
Then you negotiate. You decide what things are *really* important to you, where you have to draw the line, and you try to come to a compromise. Let your partner be honest with you about their desires, make sure they know that they can tell you without risking the relationship, because this needs to be an open discussion. Make sure you know how far you are going to go, and don't let yourself be bullied. In the same way, don't bully your partner. You don't need each other so bad that you should have to be bullied into terms that will allow the relationship to continue. If it comes down to that, you shouldn't be together.
Do this early, and often thereafter! | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/19/2007 9:28:20 AM |
If I found someone I could trust and love and start a life with, he would be secure enough with himself and my feelings for him to be beyond such pettiness over some internet account.
An internet dating site. You forgot to include "dating" in there. A place where the main reason people congregate is to get a connection with the opposite sex, most of which is either emotional or physical.
I'll bet you anything that those that maintain steady contact with your partner who are single and local would be more than willing to pick up where you left off should something go wrong in your relationship. Men know that. Women know that. That's why they are still here. And that is precisely why it wouldn't work for me.
What if your partner was bothered by it? And reasonably so I might add. Which would be more important to you? Keeping other people on standby just in case, or making the virtuous choice and chosing love over fear? I'm willing to bet that 70% of the people who argue to keep the account open, have motives beyond what they argue. I'm willing to bet that most of them are keeping plan B active because they are unsure about themselves and their partner. Maybe you should talk to your partner about these things instead of making destructive choices in your relationship.
Once again, people don't survive relationships because they are SELFISH. You can justify any way you see fit, but the motive is selfishness, plain and simple. | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/19/2007 9:51:09 AM | I thought that it was people who were meant to "survive", rather than relationships. And I do not think that this has to do with selfishness.
But my main point is that not all people go or stay on sites such as POF for fishing for emotional or physical reasons, but for friendship ones as well. And I personally see those sites evolving into networking people sites for more reasons than just dating: friends, socialising, sharing interests, business networking, even job hunting - recruiting (I think that a site which includes all those options will be the emerging power in the field in the next few years). And I am not surprised by the attractiveness of the POF forums. Foremost, people want to communicate with other people. And dating/romance is only one of many reasons, in my humble view.
We live to feel, think, express, communicate (in many ways and formats). | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/19/2007 2:07:38 PM |
Which would be more important to you? Keeping other people on standby just in case, or making the virtuous choice and chosing love over fear?
Oh, yeah, I've got people taking numbers and getting in line just to talk and/or email with me. Have to keep that standby thing, just in case I find myself lacking for conversation in a relationship.
I'm willing to bet that 70% of the people who argue to keep the account open, have motives beyond what they argue.
Motives beyond "Talk/Email"?? If that were the case, wouldn't changing my specs to something like "Dating" or "Long Term" make that effort vastly easier?
I'm willing to bet that most of them are keeping plan B active because they are unsure about themselves and their partner. Maybe you should talk to your partner about these things instead of making destructive choices in your relationship.
I don't have a partner or a relationship, and I don't need those things to make me a more complete person. If I find one, fine; if not, no biggie. But if I did, I would choose the sort of man that would realize that if I'm not messing around with anyone now, while I'm single, it stands to reason that I wouldn't while I was actually in a relationship. | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/20/2007 5:21:27 AM | | BUT, thinking about it... If you start seeing, dating, or whatever then I think it is a good idea to keep visiting here to see if they do. I have only met one guy off here- who after a couple of meetings hasn't seemed that keen, this whole malarkey is somewhat confusing and not sure I can be a***d with it anymore. | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/20/2007 5:40:30 AM | Hey Stella,
I had a similar experience not quite as intense as yours but here's what I did and boy did I enjoy it. My guy was coming to my house every weekend for over 3 months. He told me he loved me and only me..we had talked about his moving in....We both still had our accounts on POF which really didn't bother me as I wasn't using mine and he said he wasn't using his. One day quite innocently after he had gone home from the weekend, I notice that he was still signed in on my computer. Like you I couldn't resist peeking. I saw where he was continueing to seek women and even went so far as to tell them he wasn't "seeing anyone special". Well I saw red lol! I went into his profile and changed the words "Man seeking a Woman" to "Man seeking a Man" and then sat back and waited for the fireworks...Since he wasnt smart enough to figure out I was accessing his site on POF, I continued to read and monitor the solitations he received...I even picked out a few men for him and gave them his home phone # and cell phone #..
It took him about a month before he cancelled his POF account, changed both his phone #'s too. Cruel? Maybe...but it was delicious fun.. | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/20/2007 6:58:03 AM | Well said mandrake48, the ability to move on and see what tomorrow will bring is very important. Otherwise you live in the past and do not see what you have around you right now.
As for any person not to remove their profile from a dating site when that special person is found and the relationships becomes serious, in my opinion that is the making a player and not the making of a partner in a relationship.
Mark | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/20/2007 8:13:55 AM | Wow Stella! I saw so many similarities in what you wrote (post #1) to something that had happened to my best friend. She did not even know what a 'player' was before but did learn that particular lesson the hard way like you did. The shock and grief are as bad as if someone you loved had died! Imagine being in what you thought was a "LTR" and (unbeknownst to you) he has invited one of his out of town on-line women to stay with him over the holidays.....took her skiing....made 'expert' excuses as to his unavailability at that time....was still on-line...etc.etc.etc....And...he was seeing even more women! It's mind-boggling what these men are capable of! It's a terrible game they play and they have no regard for who they hurt which does equate into 'sociopathic' behavior. Their interpersonal functioning is flawed, and the way that they perceive themselves and others is terribly flawed. I wouldn't want to see any woman wrung through THAt ringer. These types of guys seem to be 'perfect'...sweet, charming, intelligent,personable, good looking....but their eventual 'sting' can be deadly. If you 'suspect' something is wrong...then it probably is....so go with your intuition. God bless | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/20/2007 3:43:03 PM | Exactly NAF. You are re-enforcing my point. Your argument from what I can tell is SELF-preservation right? If you don't let go of the fear and let someone know that you are willing to take a risk with them, you might miss the chance of it, not turning to dust, but becoming all you had hoped for. It's about saying, I'm placing my heart and my trust in your hands, with no guarantee of a good outcome. I'm placing my faith in you even though I've been hurt before, because I think you are different.
When someone does that, it's not typical or normal, it's special. I think it's a defining moment. | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/20/2007 4:46:41 PM | The issue of cancelling one's POF account is a delicate one.
I met my current partner through POF in September. A few weeks later we agreed to pursue an exclusive relationship. I changed my profile to reflect my not single/not looking status, but my partner left his profile unchanged.
A few weeks later, I made an issue of it. I'd read enough in the forums to feel nervous about his leaving his profile as it was, i.e. single man looking for a LTR. He admitted that women continued to contact him, although he would let them know he wasn't available. In any case, once I brought the issue forward, he deleted his account.
I made it clear to him that I wished to continue involvement with the forums, and he agreed. However, when completely honest, he admits that it makes him a bit nervous, with my continued presence on a dating site. He's had friends state to him that there's no way I'd remain on this site if I weren't still fishing. (It's interesting that one of those friends is a notorious player--could there be a bit of projecting involved?)
I love being part of the POF community. I've become friends with several women on this site, and we frequently exchange messages through POF. I have no intention of deleting my account.
I am absolutely faithful to my partner. I hold fidelity in high esteem. There is no way in hell that I'm going to fish for another partner. Why on on earth would I? I found the best catch in this sea, and I'm hanging on to him.
However, if someone maintains their POF account without any involvement in the forums.......there may be cause for concern. | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/20/2007 6:17:51 PM | Hey Stella:
We tend to believe cause we want so much to have someone in our life. I met a lady who said she was seperated and that her husband had cheated on her with a younger woman and left. This was two years later and we dated, I believed her.... but she went back to hubby.
It is said in a book i read that is now 2007 years old. "thou shalt not commit adultery" well read furhter and it tells you that you should not commit it in your mind either. Why?? because it takes you away from your loved one and distracts and distorts your feelings for her. Sure .... there is nothing like a great pair of legs to catch a guys eye, look with respect but linger and you ask for trouble. Sorry to hear of your plight. When I dated this lady i met on line I did not go to the date lines. I had what i wanted.
Good luck and throw that line into the pond again there is another fish for you i am sure
DAve | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/20/2007 6:37:05 PM | i myself would cancel my accout if i met a girl and she ask me to. but if not, i would keep it open for the chats that i have from time to time. the important thing is to respect each others feelings on things like this.
kenny | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/20/2007 7:02:06 PM | Hello Stella....hell, that just sucks. And you know what? I've found that men will test just how far the boundaries go. It sucks that we have to be suspicious of men all the time, but it's better to be aware then completely ignorant that there is the possibility that they are continuing romantic liasions online, especially if they found you there. Eyes wide open...
I don't necessarily agree that people should have to delete their profiles, however, hiding them or writing that they are seeing someone now right in their profiles is sufficient in my opinion for the beginnings of romances. To delete a profile wouldn't really be necessary until the relationship is a good 6 months or so along and pretty serious. Why delete a profile you might come back to in 6 months? Not many people wait more than 6 months to have sex either, I guess it depends on your own value system.
This site is different as well, as some people maintain their accounts to contribute to these forums and it is completely innocent. I think that is true.
I'd be idealistic if it wasn't for the fact that my ex husband was cyber cheating on me while we were married. LOL... Trust? What the heck is that? | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/22/2007 7:43:07 PM | As for any person not to remove their profile from a dating site when that special person is found and the relationships becomes serious, in my opinion that is the making a player and not the making of a partner in a relationship.
That, TOO, is well said.....and what a horrible way for anyone to be treated! I swear!...I think if someone did that to me I'd be driven to shoot an entire quiver of arrows into their...ummm...well...probably just into their mattress or some other (inanimate) object d' art of theirs....  | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/22/2007 11:25:51 PM | This post may not LOOK 100% relevant to the exaxt topic but it is. You will see what I mean.
About 2 years ago I met a real nice woman in my home town from a site and we started dating. She lived in the same town for many years but comes from another country originally. 2-3 weeks into the relationship, she realised that I was getting calls from an ex-girlfriend, then just a friend.
She asked me to drop this ex-friend from a friend or else!!! I told her NO WAY! I was not going to dump a friend because she happened to be an ex and that made her feel insecure. It is a matter of both principle and ethics. Either one believes that his/her girl/boy-friend is ethical or not. In the latter case, he/she should not date her.
The same women kept on being suspicious of all my moves even though she KNEW I had no time to fool around even if I wished to (between work, her and other projects whoch she knew about). It started becoming VERY annoying! When I asked her why she had all these concerns, she said that it had nothing to do with me but with the fact she had had very many traumatic experiences with previous boyfriends - cheaters and that she did not trust other women not to "steal" her beau! I fiannly had to tell her:
"there are 3 ways to deal with this a) for me to have a mistress so that your fears can be real but I do not wish to do so b) to trust me and amybe get some professionalk help to help her put her traumatic experiences behind her or c) to stop this relationship. A few days later I had to opt for the latter, cause she was so enotional and tense about these things that she was going to give me a heart attack! IT WAS THAT BAD. I hope she did get some professional help..... | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/23/2007 9:44:12 PM | Nikos44, a hypothetical situation if I may.
What if you found someone that you really liked, and I mean not just your typical run-of-the-mill shallow dating scene, but someone you thought was incredible and you both entered into an exclusive relationship. Let's say she had an ex who she frequently spoke with, hanged around with etc... Let's also assume that the relationship with this ex was sexual at one time as well. There are no children involved so there is no reason for this other than the pleasure of each other's company.
How could you, as a human being with both rational and irrational thoughts and reasoning, not feel any kind of concern about this? Now everyone is different, granted, but I wouldn't go as far as to say she needed professional help. It also depends on the way she approached it I guess.
I understand that you felt distrusted but there seems to be a lack of empathy on your part about her (in my opinion, valid) concern. Also women, I think maybe more so than men, want you to show by action that you care deeply about them. They want to see you alleviate their concerns and make them feel worth it, and that is really not such a complex thing.
Not only that, it's a feeling, man. Having an ex around is just a bad idea all around. I can't explain it, but there are a lot of people who get very anxious about it. It creates questions that are hard to ignore. It does have to do with security, but just because someone is feeling insecure doesn't mean that they are wrong for feeling so. It's not that they distrust you, but for the life them, can't figure out what the fixation with this person is, no matter what you tell them, and why the ex would be more important than keeping the air clear in the relationship. | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/23/2007 11:31:46 PM | That behavior sounds more like an addiction.
In which case, if it is, it's going to resemble a sort of obsessive compulsive behavior which makes no sense at all.
Instead of demonising him, I would just stay removed form the situation and the next time he shows up on your doorstep have some pamphlets to give him for sex addiction 12 step programs. Treat him with stern compassion. Don't lash out an increase the drama, just let him know you think he has a prollem and that you don't want to spend time with people who have those kinds of issues.
If you just insult him an demonise him it reinforces his behavior. Instead just see it for what it is an understand he prolly has little or no control over his urges. Spend the effort on yourself an find out why you were attracted to him in the first place an make sure you don't make a habit outta dating liars. ;)
DAve | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/24/2007 7:54:24 PM | I got a kick out of a particular post I read not long after I posted the last time.. that basically says look, you are who you are, be comfortable in your own shoes, be clear about what your expectations and your reasoning is behind what you do, and be clear when you express it to other people.
I have seen more jaded, judgmental, accusing, guarded, unquestionably strong online personalities here, who choose to approach others with FEAR, rather than with honest, realistic inquisitiveness. While it's great to have some common sense and check your reality every once in a while, watch it. Many of us simpletons.. simple in every sense of the word, including what we believe in.. do not have the capacity in our morality to conjure up some elaborate scheme to conquer as many women's minds and hearts as we possibly can. Let alone booty or bust power trip games. But wow.. is it ever a chore to wade into the fear mongering. how many marriages end in divorce.. everything bad is always in the news.. Honestly? Suck it up sometimes and give somebody the benefit of the doubt. Not all that you see is what you think. Insecurity is my number one pet peeve.. and if somebody accuses me of something like cheating or lying or playing games or any of that, I'll drop them like a hot stone, because it is an insult. If someone doesn't want to know me, that's the easiest way to get the walking papers.
The power to 'control' or 'influence' a relationship, for either person, are remarkably strong if there are have strong feelings for someone, and there is a great responsibility not just on two people to be truthful, but for BOTH, to not let insecurity dismantle the beginnings of a great development in their lives. Used Wisely, they are wonderful sources of guidance and advice. Foolishly, they become false accusations, weapons, distrust, and skepticism. That us usually bred by insecurity. There is a responsibility to be wise, here, no matter whose shoes you're in.
Yes, I'll say it. Trust. Learn to trust, believe in trust. OR DONT look for a RELATIONSHIP. Everybody makes mistakes, and I know lots of people don't 'like' competition. I welcome it. I give someone as much rope as they want to have to explore and be free in their life and their world. And I'm proud and decent enough to be more than happy at the end of the day, when I get to be their first choice each day. That is MY idea of a good relationship. What ya do on your own time, is not my responsibility. But If there is ever a need, talk, talk, and talk. Not everyone believes that the secret of a good relationship is a reasonable amount of freedom it appears.. but good wide open communication and a VERY VERY strong sense of forgiveness and understanding, will ALWAYS give you more than it will ever take away. If you cannot trust someone and expect there WILL be the odd misunderstanding from time to time, then you're setting yourself UP for a "liar" a "cheater" a "player" . A lot of this is a self fulfilling prophesy.. you can call anything as you see it. The truth of the matter is, sometimes it is just easier to give up and move on, than it is to admit you're actually, wrong, and it's a misunderstanding. This HAPPENS!
Running back to my first post. I've been on the net for like ten years.. how long do you suppose after I end up with my perfect match, will it take for the spam email to stop coming in from dating sites I signed up to when I was 28? My dating world will end when the right woman comes along. And there's no need to doubt that whatsoever. Some of us aren't here to be testers. Guess I should have kept better track of who got ahold of my usernames, emails and passwords on dating sites. I won't take 'dating' off my personal agenda, maybe not my profiles.. it depends on the person I meet and when I'm comfortable doing that. If I'm not comfortable taking dating off my profile I'm obviously not serious about the person, or it hasn't developed that far in my life. Pretty straightforward if I've already told them that honestly. I'll keep dating until I've found that one right person, and then I'll decide that's it. I won't quit dating until I've found the right one. Should anyone? | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/24/2007 9:23:42 PM | Somewhere earlier in this thread it was mentioned that the thread originator was using sex as a bargaining chip, and more or less I think that she was.
Let me first say that I, in no way, shape or form consider myself a player. But having had several realtionships, I feel that I have enough knowledge to comment.
Sex is a very personal thing and no person should or can say at what point sex should happen in a realtionship. And in that regard, it absolutely was a bargaining chip. I have had true one-nighters (both parties knew it would be) and I've had sex on the first date which blossomed into beautiful realtionships (considering I'm still single, they ultimately failed of course). I've also had relationships where sex appeared sometime between the 2nd date and the second month. One relationship actually lasted for six months without any sex (no cheap shots from the peanut gallery).
Point being that sex is all too often attached to emotion. Sometimes sex is nothing more than sex and there should be nothing wrong with this. It is not the most sacred of acts and shouldn't be treated as such until you are in a committed realtionship. We are adults here people, and as such we should be able to handle this sort of "affection" without an expectation that at the first flash of skin we are headed toward wedded bliss.
One thing I have noticed in the dating scene, is that somewhere along the lines a fast forward button has been added. It seems that if the somewhat elusive 2nd date is reached, women (without telling men) will hit the fast forward button on the emotion side of the remote control, to somewhere between moving in together and the engagement. Whatever happened to dating? Can't a person date more than one person at a time? This is not to say that I want to move to Utah and gather a harem, but until someone is in an exclusive realtionship why can't you test the waters with more than one.
How long does it take to know that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone? No two people will answer that question the same. It may take days, weeks or months or it might be love at first sight. Let's consider that for most it is in the days, weeks, months category. During this time frame, while you are getting to know somebody, is it not plausible that you could also be getting to know somebody else? And even if there is only one person you are getting to know, is it acceptable to ask this person to cancel his/her membership on any dating site? I would have to say no.
Unless a mutual decision has been made that an exclusive realtionship is now underway, anything prior to that decision is fair game, even if it takes months to reach that decision. I think it would be an arrogant and selfish thing to expect that a person withdraw him/herself from the dating scene after the first date (or any date) or the first time you have sex, unless of course it is understood that you are in an exclusive relationship. One of the media of the dating scene is of course dating websites.
I do think that if you are in an exclusive realtionship you should cancel website accounts for any purpose, dating or forums. Believe it or not, there are forums out there not related to dating websites. And if you have made friends on the forums give them your email and correspond that way. It comes down to a matter of respect for your partner. And respect, IMO, should be at the top of your list of the foundation of a relationship. | |
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| Cross your legs until he cancels his POF account#2!
Posted: 2/24/2007 9:30:16 PM | Altrouist, you are very right, but in THEORY. Relationship is not ownership (of course that does not mean "fooling" around). She acted that way 2 weeks into the relationship. It was scary, intense and potentially unhealthy. She had had many traumatic experiences with other men, that is why I recommended to her getting some psychological help to overcome the trauma of those relationships and approach the future with a more positive stance. Because her stance was very intense and unhealthy for her new beau! Plus she had set up a set of relationship rules which seemed non negotiable. She was into dominating the relationship. A good person at heart, but one with heavy heavy luggage from the past. That is why psychologists are for, I think, to help people overcome such traumas and not let them tuin their lives.
The relevant point is that in a healthy monogamous relationship, the two sides are not limited from talking to other people, they are limited from fooling around with them. | |
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