| police tasers
Posted: 3/27/2009 3:43:37 PM | Springfish and Fox... when i read the original link it referenced both incidents. since springfish decided to revive this thread with the statement "what makes all these stories odd" I considered it a bit of an invitation to discuss both issues under one umbrella in a thread the moral minority couldn't delete before it got interesting. I thought i was fairly clear which incident i have been referencing at which time. I think trubble got his wires slightly crossed with the quote regarding the store and the man being unable to speak english but got back on track after that. My post 115 after the quote is speaking directly of the edmonton incident. If you are still confused we can break it down on a post by post basis.
E.D was not ruled the official cause of death in the airport incident but what was?
http://www.rcmpwatch.com/no-charges-to-be-laid-against-rcmp-officers-in-airport-taser-death/
A subtle rewording when you read that report and look at the symptoms yes / no?
I think the last 2 lines of the report speak volumes about the moral superiority of the officers.
Dustin. Thank you for the most sensible thing said yet. Tasers do have the potential to be lethal. so how can they be perpetuated as a nonlethal alternative. When an officer pulls their service weapon they know damn well they better be sure their life is in danger before they deploy that option(or at least several buddies in the area and plenty of time to get the story straight) as the outcome has real consequences. at the point a taser has proven lethal should not the same restraint apply.these are not exactly the electric fly zapper rackets we have so much fun with during our 1 month of summer now are they.
Goin back to the old days as you put it seems like a hell of an idea. then the real bad guys who need a bullet get one and when the cops f up and kill an innocent person they pay the penalty instead of getting to write it off on an invented "syndrome" . can you see the headlines, Vancouver police ventilate hungry confused man armed with a slimline...
in the edmonton case was the man armed in a manner that could have endangered the officers lives. was hand to hand non lethal combat an alternative. seems to me there used to be something called pepper spray.... hmmmm might just be my imagination.
Take a trip to (insert favorite whipping boy country here) is a piss poor excuse for failing to uphold the moral concepts of our own country and justifying it by saying "well hey its better than they have it over there" how about standing up and saying " wait a minute that's not how we do things HERE"
Does anyone deny that the police have a tough job or that on the by and large they do their best to uphold the concepts they preach, i don't believe so.
And it is not a matter of "whining every time the police do something that turns out bad" what it is about is ensuring that when these people do cross that thin line that separates them from the criminals that they receive treatment that fits the behavior. however contrary to every one being equal in the eyes of the law there always seems to be a procedural mistake or a minor technicality that ensures they are found not guilty. In the airport case they deemed insufficient evidence to charge the officers. apparently perjury by those involved and a cell phone video of the incident does not qualify. tell me what does it take to get a video into evidence. should we all make sure its shot with a 12 megapixel hd unit??? Pathetic.
Again does all of this mean that i am staunchly against the use of tasers. Well the answer to that question is a resounding No as they are a tool for the forces to use BUT it damn well better be a justified use with a verifiable danger no less than one warranting the use of a firearm. both of which are potentially lethal.
OhSix' | |
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| police tasers
Posted: 3/27/2009 4:42:42 PM | Renaissance Redneck.........you said it all!
trubble......very good points!
OHSIX.......another well worded post!.....don't worry about the 2 different incidents, just thought i'd ask so we have some sort of guideline, for the readers who don't post.
If the taser is such a good weapon to deter, why can't the civilian's use it for protection?... Everyone's life is worth just as much to their families, so let us not favor one over the other, simply because of status. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2009 5:17:41 PM |
Everyone's life is worth just as much to their families this is actually untrue. since the guy that shot the two rcmp and only winged/injured the 3rd rcmp got 3 life sentences. in another instance of a murderer killing multiple non cops, he only got manslaughter or 3rd degree sentences and got off with a mere 10-15 yrs per victim
cops have set the system up to protect themselves and undermine the general populations value to society
apparently according to omgwtf. the rest of us are just scumbags ripe for a good tasering or shooting. to be covered up under the guise of the next previously unknown mental condition, totally unrelated to cop brutality of course .
apparently cops are permitted and even considered heroes for using outlandish brutality against their victims
how about instead of arming cops with tasers, arm them with specially designed fishing nets made of a polymer fabric that ensnares and incapacitates a victim long enough for the victim to be brought under physical control
this would be "non lethal" and entirely possible(probably alot cheaper as well)
you know.like spiderman uses lol | |
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Posted: 3/27/2009 7:46:23 PM | trubblemakr... Emphasis being on "their families" not the justice system......Other than that we have great laws, its the justice system that is screwed up...
Spiderman spiderman...spiderman net......Not a bad idea, except that if the party in the net is agitated and awol they may end up strangling themselves with the nylon mesh..
Tasers are defended and perpetuated as a non-lethal weapon, yet everyone that has been zapped has died....If they are non-lethal than why can't the general public use them for protection? | |
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| police tasers
Posted: 3/27/2009 8:03:36 PM | welll frankly
your scary enough without a taser spring
lol what with your kung foo panda routine and your ninja turtle fighting styles lol
itd be scary if they were released into the public, imagine people using them to zap someone that just irritated em
damn , id so need several pairs of rubber boots | |
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Posted: 3/27/2009 8:04:26 PM |
Tasers are defended and perpetuated as a non-lethal weapon, yet everyone that has been zapped has died
Actually I'm pretty sure that most that get zapped survive but that's not the issue. I'd wager the same could be claimed for the majority who take a bullet. Most likely survive. I think the biggest issue is how badly the potentially lethal devices are being misused and how little of the TRUE information pertaining to such is being made available to the public, or is being covered up. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2009 8:30:13 PM | I've figured out that the easiest way to not get zapped, is to do exactly what the nice officer says. 
People have died from every method of restraint, yet these methods also have saved lives. The general public, I would not trust with anything more dangerous than sporks. I'd be happy to be tasered, rather than shot.
Every officer that is equipped with a taser, also has to be hit with one as part of the training. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2009 10:12:11 PM | Yes Trubble, the people cops deal everyday are just about always scum bags, sometimes really scummy scum bags. That's not saying the other people in the world are scum bags, just the drug dealers, rapists, murderers, thieves, ya know, the people cops deal with. Complicated? Not really. I wish the world was full of shiny, happy people who were never violent and there was no need for weapons or violence and the cops just came around to get your cat out of the tree, but unfortunately that's not reality.
"ive seen lots of police brutality and in many instances it is just that, police who believe they are above and better than the other person taking out their natural aggresive tendencies"
I absolutely loath the arguments that go, "I've seen it with my own eyes therefore I know what I'm talking about". So what. Now because you've seen a cop beat someone up, the 99.999999% of all other cops are violent criminals? That's awesome logic.
I agree that tasers don't function as they are supposed to. They are supposed to be an alternative to physical confrontation and to lethal force. If that's not happening, then they need to get another weapon. But in real life, you can't expect cops to deal with the people they deal with without having some sort of advantage. You can't possibly train for every situation so the tools they have need to be appropriate for the job. You can't train someone to use a taser only when you're sure the guy doesn't have a pre-existing heart condition, isn't on amphetamines, doesn't speak English, isn't having an anxiety attack, isn't diagnosed with a mental illness, isn't really posing a threat (staplers are okay, screw drivers aren't) etc etc etc. But you should be fine if the guy is on roofies, hasn't been running recently, apparently has a weapon but is actually just a cell phone, or is foaming at the mouth. That's why the Vancouver airport tragedy isn't manslaughter at all, but rather bad judgement and a feeble cover up attempt. How can you say that one guy smashing computers and acting crazy in an airport isn't a threat, but the next guy might be? The guy could be Chuck Liddel's training partner, he could be hiding a knife, he could bleed on a cop, bite a cop, fall on a cop the wrong way, fall through a window, hit his head the wrong way. Anything is possible and, if you deal with it everyday, the impossible usually happens. But that's right, I forgot, you've seen stuff.
In the last six months cops have shot three people within blocks of my house. All three occasions have made the news, all three people were posing a threat to cops and to the public as well as the victims. No one (aside from the obvious) is upset about these people getting shot. No one is saying any of those cops were psycho, crazed killers. In fact, they get praised for being level headed, brave and competent because in the sitiuations they were in, they likely saved innocent lives. So if that's the job you're asking cops to do and if cops are in fact human, then there are going to be incidences of failure. The solution is a better widget.
Spiderman net. Nice. Sooo, we'll leave to someone else to come up with an intelligent suggestion? | |
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| police tasers
Posted: 3/27/2009 10:23:21 PM | | One more thing, the guy in the airport didn't have to pose a threat to the four well armed and trained cops. He posed a huge threat to himself. If he resisted being arrested, which he obviously would have, and came in close contact with a cop, then made a reach for a holstered gun, the cops have had no choice but to shoot the him dead. Again, none of this is fictional. It has all happened and will happen again. If a taser is supposed to subdue the guy without any further contact, then it's the right choice. If tasers kill people all the time just like a gun, then they need a new tool. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2009 10:36:18 PM | your arguements are fullof generalizations and "ifs and maybes"
maybe come into it with a little bit of facts next time
i do hope that you get a personal test of the taser though, then maybe youropinionswill change when you yourself must label yourself as a "scumbag"
who doyou think you are labelling people? the people you label arent convictedof a crime even, they are merely being apprehended.
maybe whe a few cops are beating the crapout of you as you lay facedown and defencelesson the ground,and then one of em figures you talked back or didnt spread your azz cheeks fast enough and decides to taser you then maybe youll change your closedmind about the whole thing.
read the trash you type, every word is an assumption based on nothing.
cops have a job to do ,thats a fact,
somecops do their jobs well and legally
thats a fact
somecops are bullies and ego maniacs and enjoy punishing and inflicting tortureon other people
thats a fact too
its the latter ones we needtoput inprisons, in the general population as well
i cant believe youd stick up for thesetype of human garbage, even with the vast array of proof that shows they falsified reports. wentover and above the call of duty to actively eecute aguy that wasnt even in the right frame of mind
http://www.immigrantjournal.com/pages/Immigration%20Info/Articles/NEW%20Articles/Executioners%20In%20Blue.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/03/15/que-policeprotest.html
http://members.fortunecity.com/brutalitycanada/names.html
heres several urls that will enlighten you as to police brutality and some actual documented facts, rather than your conjecture based on nothing more than rhetoric | |
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Posted: 3/27/2009 11:31:37 PM | | if a criminal decides to run, taser his a$$..... its a hell of a lot better then getting shot at.... less paperwork. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2009 11:33:26 PM | Of course there is police brutality, as there is civilian brutality. The difference being, the police SHOULD know better. There are murders, assaults and the like every day, the common person does not have access to the fancy toys that the police do, and for good reason, myself, I'd have tasered 4 or 5 people today alone. Crowds will do that to you.
The men in uniform, have a job to do, and it is hampered by unruly citizens, who have the victim mentality and scream foul no matter the reason that the situation gets out of control. Everybody makes mistakes, some in confronting authority, some in over reacting with their authority. It is the human condition, and thank god that there aren't more of these unfortunate circumstances where either side loses life. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2009 11:34:10 PM | | I guess maybe you didn't notice, but you're fighting a totally different battle from what I'm talking about. I have nothing to say about your evil, jack booted, beat your door down in the middle of the night for no reason cops. Of course they're bad. Duh. But that's not what I'm talking about. The four cops in the airport are not the psychopaths you're claiming they are. I've said what I think is true about tasers and the scenario in the airport. If you see it differently, explain why with more than fortunecity.com. That site has nothing to do with conclusive, documented facts. Look at each incident, it's not like the cops are dragging innocent people out into the streets and shooting them. Bad training? Poor judgement? Maybe. Some are probably evil and maliscious and hopefully they get dealt with. But some circumstances are justifiable too. Anyway, fight the power. I'll try to get arrested and let you know what the jolt feels like. | |
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| police tasers
Posted: 3/31/2009 6:13:42 PM | Tasers can, and have killed, beyond the shadow of a doubt. .....To say the victim dies of 'heart failure' is technically true, but what was the cause of the heart failure?
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Posted: 3/31/2009 6:38:07 PM | | Taser International claims citizen complaints are cut down by half in those jurisdictions where Taser cams are in use. Stricter procedures might have something to do with it, though. For example, in Edmonton, where the new technology is now in use, Taserings are three times less common than they were in 2005. But police have also implemented a new policy whereby a senior officer is called to the scene whenever a Taser is discharged in order to review the events and download the data. | |
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Posted: 3/31/2009 6:48:45 PM |
Tasers can, and have killed, beyond the shadow of a doubt. .....To say the victim dies of 'heart failure' is technically true, but what was the cause of the heart failure?
Eight years ago, I suffered a "Ventricular Fibrillation Cardiac Arrest" that I should not have survived. Only 5 % survive, 3% of whom are completely brain dead and left in Nursing homes under 24 hour observation. The remaining 2% are left with brain damage and wondering when they will go down again. (20 years or 20 minutes is what they told me)
The point I'm trying to make is that if I were to be Tasered, I would drop like a rock, lights out. The police are not able to tell if a person has a pre-excisting heart problem or not. To look at me, and some even say to speak with me, you would never know I had any kind of medical problems. As long as I stay calm and collected, I am fine. But put me into a situation such as the one in Vancouver and my mind will snap and yes, you can certainly at this point call me "Out of Control" due to my anger and voice level.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN I'M A THREAT TO ANYBODY. I have never physically assulted anyone, (well, since I was younger and ) but unless you know me and my condition, how could you tell?
NOTICE TO THE FORUM TASER POLICE: Now that I'm replying to this, are you going to kill the thread?
I say this in reference to the thread dealing with the Vancouver incident. I replied to that thread in a very thought out manner. I take a long time to write something "Thought out" due to a brain injury. I wrote about how the "Police" in this matter changed their stories AFTER the video was released.
Absolute B.S. that that thread disappeared after all I put into it. Question to forum police........Are you connected to the R.C.M.P.? | |
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| police tasers
Posted: 4/3/2009 2:21:13 PM | Anyone who thinks this type of thing is a "no brainer" to provide to Police with no questions asked has obviously never been on the wrong end of a mis handled police incident. Good luck with the complaints process or having them actually look into most things on their own and sueing the cops is extremely difficult and expensive. I bet half the oppinions in this thread would change in a big hurry the minute you were the one getting "tased". Never mind if you're no longer alive....
There also seems to be a rampant problem with alot of the oppinions here that the people getting tased are "automatically guilty" of doing something wrong. Better pray our legal system never changes to use that theory as its foundation | |
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Posted: 4/7/2009 10:57:47 PM | 4/6/2009 6:32 PM
by springfish
that is a copy of my last post to the thread with a link posted to the printed article where it said police still uses taser excessively.... the time and date of the post remains but the post with the link was deleted...so you know someone is trying very hard to silence the news getting out to the general public. | |
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Posted: 4/16/2009 6:47:08 PM | Being a widow of an RCMP Corporal I heard a lot of stories about the tazers. Did you know that they must go through a course that involves being hit with a tazer? They know what it feels like and don't bring them out to be lazy, they bring them out when there is danger to the lives of the victim, the police officer, and any bystanders watching.
About the guy just being high on drugs, he could be the most dangerous person there. They don't tazer the guy for not being able to stand still, they tazer him for aggressive behavior towards the police officers or someone he may be fighting with. The aggressive behavior involves having knives and guns being pulled out or the guy who thinks in his doped up state, thinks he can take on the police officer(s). The tazer is the safest way to stop these individuals and one day you'll be happy they have them to stop whoever it is that has decided that you're his next target.
If you disagree, then you're just here to argue and make a fool of yourself. | |
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Posted: 4/16/2009 8:12:29 PM | Yes, I've heard about the antics of this particular constable. I have no respect for this cop. One bad cop gives people more fuel to protest the taser. Taser use has changed since this incident. This is just my opinion but I still think taser is the best way to subdue criminals. The police are the ones trying to keep the non-criminals safe. They have families, wives, children, just like everyone else. Times are changing and the respect that used to be shown to the police is going away. Look at what happened near Mayerthorpe, a mentally ill man managed to shoot and kill 4 Mounties. I know tasers wouldn't have worked in this instance but its an example that police also need to protect themselves.
Jim Galloway, a dog handler in Sherwood Park was called to help with a domestic dispute. He was shot in the back after he moved his vehicle to block a mentally ill man from driving away. My husband worked with Jim for 25 years and I was the one that broke the news to him. I'd never seen him cry as hard as he did.
Tasers will protect the police and innocent people. I hope they keep using them so they can do their job effectively. The people that are dying from being hit by tasers is a shame but when a cop yells stop, you stop. Pretty easy, I think.
To the person that mentioned going back to the billy club days, think about it, those can kill too. | |
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Posted: 4/16/2009 8:41:25 PM | A son of a former police chief ....How many of his antics did the public not hear off one has to wonder?
How do you explain the Vancouver Airport incident then?
http://www.calgaryherald.com/story_print.html?id=1229827 | |
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Posted: 4/16/2009 9:03:05 PM | I was hoping he would get fired, he was not following his training and was definitely a bully.
Vancouver Airport:
Someone already addressed that. The man reached for one of the constable's gun. That is a threat and they have to deal with it. People have to be responsible for their own actions. I do think its a shame that he died but more people have been saved than have died. | |
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Posted: 4/17/2009 5:45:19 PM | I hear you dusty....one would think his father being the police chief would have done the proper thing..
Vancouver Airport:
It was recorded on a private citizen's video, and it showed horrific abuse....The victim did not reach for no gun, he reached for a stapler... | |
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Posted: 4/21/2009 9:00:27 PM | This just in dusty..
RCMP apologize for inaccurate account of Dziekanski death
"The video shows Dziekanski seeming to back away from the Mounties and holding an open stapler just before being stunned. He then staggers, flails his arms and falls to the ground, with the Taser repeatedly used on him until he is handcuffed."
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2009/04/21/9195406.html | |
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Posted: 4/21/2009 9:16:30 PM | Taser expert: Rules bar stunning cops during training
VANCOUVER — A police Taser expert who analyzed the unit used on Robert Dziekanski says his department no longer uses the electric stun guns on its own officers in training.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2009/04/21/9193901.html | |
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