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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/26/2008 5:31:50 PM |
I also believe that whilst many derogatory nouns/terms have their basis in medical terminology or even anthopological
terms, I would never call a person who is actually sufferring /born with cerebral palsy a spastic. I would only afford that particular moniker to someone who behaves like a nitwit.
Exactly the point I was making, as a reference to say, ...President Bush, all of those terms (moron, idiot, imbecile, retarded,
"feeb" ), are quite accurate epithets when describing the efforts of the great pillock.
This is where the difference comes in with racial, ethnic, and other identifiable groups are concerned, they ARE directed at their source. | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/26/2008 5:40:39 PM | | But isn't one criticism of PC the fact that is seeks to eliminate the use of words in all circumstances not just when used against minorities? | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/26/2008 5:55:49 PM | PC was a well-meant idea that comes up hard against the intransigence of human nature and the fact that some people will use phrases well-meaningly that have unfortunate implications
One example coming to mind is an early boss of mine, an accountant born in rural england in the 1930s
Described a customer of his chartered accountancy practice as ' a great guy, works like a n****r and never loses his grip'. The client was an indian, proprietor of a restaurant, and what my boss said was meant as a compliment, about someone who he genuinely admired for his hard work and who thankfully wasnt there at the time to hear it....
I think thats the target market for PR: People who arent malicious in any way (he wasnt - i worked for him for 3 years and noted the consistently high standards he kept himself to) and who wouldnt wish to accidentally cause offence. | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/26/2008 6:02:28 PM | But isn't one criticism of PC the fact that is seeks to eliminate the use of words in all circumstances not just when used against minorities?
This should reflect on the idiots themselves who take a tool for common courtesy and co-opt it into a moronic device.
The problem is, most nay-sayers will cherry-pick examples to justify discourtesy, which is an even more idiotic co-opting of what really is a recognizence of human dignity.
Use logic and reason to see which is which, it either adds up or it doesn't, the flaw isn't with the concept, it's with those who wrongfully impliment it. And, this is people from all points of the political perspective.
OK but apparently calling him such names is insulting to people who are actaully medically diagnosed as being that.
They are no longer recognized medical terms, that's the point.
What is the origin of the word 'pillock' btw ?
Heh heh, ...the UK
....is the etymological geographic source of "pillock".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A753527
Pillock' is another word which was revived in Till Death Us Do Part. Its origins are in the word 'pillicock', which is northern English slang for 'penis', and which compares with the shorter and more southern 'cock'. The earliest usage recorded in the OED describes someone getting their feet wet and saying: 'Mi pilkoc pisseth on mi schone' (schone' meaning shoes). Pillock is no longer considered obscene. British politician Mo Mowlem was filmed on TV in a shopping precinct during the 2001 general election campaign telling someone wearing an odd shop uniform that they looked 'a complete pillock'. Everyone smiled, possibly with relief that Ms Mowlem, who has a reputation for using 'short words', used one of the longer and more repeatable ones.
Imagine that, he's a Bush and a Prick at the same time, ...What he can do by himself? He should.
Surprisingly, the word 'prick' when used as an insult does not come from slang for male genitalia but from farming equipment; the prick was a shaft of sharpened wood used to keep oxen in place. A person was said to be 'kicking against the prick' if they resisted authority even if it meant harming themself. In other words, being a 'prick' was being unduly rebellious.
ibid | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/26/2008 7:35:13 PM | I can think of one example when PC genuinely went mad. (sorry, called it PR in an earlier post.. duh)
About a year ago an American mayor lost his position among a media storm for using the word 'nîggardly'. Despite its sound this word, meaning 'careless', is an English adaption of a Dutch word and has no link to the offensive N-word nor was the manner in which it was used suggestive of a slur
that was a classic example of ignorant reporting | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/26/2008 7:53:22 PM | that was a classic example of ignorant reporting
Actually -
On January 15, 1999, David Howard, a white aide to Anthony A. Williams, the black mayor of Washington, D.C., United States, used the word in reference to a budget. This apparently upset one of his black colleagues (identified by Howard as Marshall Brown), who incorrectly interpreted it as a racial slur and lodged a complaint. As a result, on January 25 Howard tendered his resignation, and Williams accepted it.
However, after pressure from the gay community (of which Howard was a member) an internal review into the matter was brought about, and the mayor offered Howard the chance to return to his position as Office of the Public Advocate on February 4. Howard refused but accepted another position with the mayor instead, insisting that he did not feel victimized by the incident. On the contrary, Howard felt that he had learned from the situation. "I used to think it would be great if we could all be colorblind. That's naive, especially for a white person, because a white person can't afford to be colorblind. They don't have to think about race every day. An African American does.
Also see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/williams/williams020499.htm | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/26/2008 8:31:38 PM | I think its about time people were reminded of the old adage/phrase/saying..."sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"
Unfortunately, that adage does not recognize the reality that when you de-humanize/marginalize an identifiable group via words, you make it easier to then work 'em over with the sticks and stones.
Ask; gay people, Jews, and African Americans about this one, I'm sure they may have a different perspective on it.
Where would Hitler have been if there was Hate Speech laws in '30s Germany? | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/26/2008 9:16:49 PM | To my mind it's all very complex and bordering on the farcical when you are being told you can't recite the nursery rhyme "baa baa black sheep" in it's original form as it may offend people who have dark skin.
Again, if one wants to "cherry-pick" to make the argument that PC is wrong, fine.
What is the outcome of this incorrect implimentation of the concept?
Violence? Suffering? Oppression?
so even if language was censored there are still ways and means for the bigotted/racist/xenophobic out there to verbalise their inner ugliness and hatred.
Absolutely, which is why the concept wasn't originally to censor anything, it was for any public service agency to recognize the sensibilities of those often marginalized and to act accordingly.
Where it gets interesting, is when the fallacy starts flying and the inept and incorrect (politicaly correct incorrect), manifestation of PC is seen as an open door to then forget the intention of the concept.
How often do we here people say, "I know it's politically incorrect to say this but, ..." and make bigoted, hateful statements. The justification being that PC is such a failed concept that we should be able to offend at will?
There's plenty in this thread, along with an overwhelming reliance on the Tu Quoque fallacy to make a point that is, ....false logic.
Yes, there are idiotic examples of any kind of law that seeks to legislate behaviour, even criminal law.
In the US, if you are fined for pissing on a bush in an alley, you are forever put on a published list of sex offenders.
Does this mean there should be no laws against sexual crimes?
I think it would be more empowering not to give 'words' power/credence which they don't deserve.
Happens all the time, marginalized groups have often taken the epithets aimed at them and made them theirs, ownership - it takes the power OUT of the words.
This is why it's "okay" for gay people to use the "Q" word and Black people to use the "N" word, and not "okay" for homophobes and White racists (often one and the same) to use the same words - ownership, | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 12:20:29 AM | Yes of course political correctness has gone mad. 'Differently abled' was the last term I heard, meaning 'disabled'.
That said, the word 'spastic' has become a term of abuse - as in 'you spastic you'. Perhaps some people have been on other planets and didn't realise this.
So yes the term is no longer acceptable. | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 12:47:19 AM | there are too many "do gooders " in Govt making rules whats right and wrong and the biggest fault is letting in so many immigrants that our country is multi racial and the knock on effect being POLITICAL do's and dont's...........whats up like at school with the black board now a chalk board. Am not gonna go on cos I could write pages like some here.......................say it how you know and stuff em PC people  | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 1:03:07 AM | That said, the word 'spastic' has become a term of abuse - as in 'you spastic you'. Perhaps some people have been on other planets and didn't realise this. So yes the term is no longer acceptable.
Interesting, consider:
"Spastic" was never a medical term used for any kind of "special needs" people in North America, here it's just an adverb (in fact it's considered quite inoffensive here and means "clumsy" or "nerd"). Is this not the same planet? It would be blatantly vulgar to use the term in the UK, while in Ottawa or in say, Niagara Falls or Winnipeg, it wouldn't raise an eyebrow, now....consider the following:
Yes of course political correctness has gone mad. 'Differently abled' was the last term I heard, meaning 'disabled'.
What about those who don't wish to be called "disabled" or "handicapped" because they find the terms perjorative (they kind of are)?
Who decides? Would it not be better really, to call people what they want to be called when they are labeled by group?
Who's more important, the individual whose lexicon is "threatened", ...or the group offended?
Doesn't the "spastic" example make this clear?
Or can you have sympathy for some, but not all the marginalized in our society?
say it how you know and stuff em PC people
Looks like a vote for "self-importance", so if I came to London and didn't adjust to the different vernacular/idiomatic differences in the word spastic, ...I'd be fine?
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 1:29:45 AM | PC is ok but who are they, that decide certain words offensive?? are they part of the group of people (nearlly typed minority but that wouldnt have been PC) who they say to be protecting against these words
i worked with deaf people and a lot of the signs changed because someone up above decided they were offensive (dont know if this has happened in America or other countries)
But most of the deaf communities didnt and dont find them offensive and deaf people in the the groups thats had been changed said that they were more upset that hearing people decided what signs where offensive
i work in enviroments where we have to be very PC but i myself am not and really have to think sometimes about what i am saying but i also dont find PC against me offensive as i think it has been said they are only words and cannot really hurt me there are worse things in this world that worry me more than being called a midget b!tch | |
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Anneri
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Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 88 | |
| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 1:34:44 AM | As late said in an earlier post alot of terms used once are going to deminish with each generation, when we instill things in our own children.
We have an elderly neighbour and i do her shopping, the other day she called my son and asked him to go to the p***i shop for her as she had forgotton to put something on her shopping list, he was disgusted as its not a term he or his friends ever used but for her generation it is the norm.
I agree that in certain situations PC has gone mad, i know it is as an attempt to help different cultures rub along together easier but imo it makes things worse, why is a 'white board' more acceptable than using a 'black board'? black, white, pink, blue are just colours, nothing racial about them! | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 2:06:18 AM | From Wikipedia (not neccessarily accurate but often amusing .. )
What is P.C.?
PC stands for Politically Correct. We of the Politically Correct philosophy believe in increasing a tolerance for a diversity of cultures, race, gender, ideology and alternate lifestyles. Politically Correctness is the only social and morally acceptable outlook. Anyone who disagrees with this philosophy is bigoted, biased, sexist, and/or closed-minded.
Why should I be PC?
Being PC is fun. PCism is not just an attitude, it is a way of life! PC offers the satisfaction of knowing that you are undoing the social evils of centuries of oppression.
I am a white male. Can I still be PC?
Sure. As a matter of fact, most people at the forefront of the PC grand destiny are white males. But remember, as a white male, you must constantly feel guilty.
Why?
If you are a white male, your ancestors were responsible for practically every injustice in the world: slavery, war, genocide and plaid sport coats. That means that you are partially responsible for these atrocities. Now it is time to balance the scales of justice for the descendants of those individuals whose ancestors your ancestors pushed down.
How?
It's simple. You've got to be careful what you say, what you think, and what you do. You just don't want to offend anyone.
You mean I should guard against offending anyone?
That's right. Being offensive is destructive, and will not make the world a harmonious Utopia, like in John Lennon's Imagine.
How else can I be PC?
Oh, there are lots of ways. For example, why buy regular ice cream when you can buy "Rain Forest Crunch?" Segrega--whoops--separate all of your garbage into different containers: glass, metal, white paper, blue paper, plastic, etc. Make sure that all your make-up has not been tested on animals. Try to find at least sixty ways to use your water; when you take a shower, brush your teeth at the same time. Then don't let the water go down the drain, use it to irrigate your lawn. Or better yet, replace your lawn with a vegetable garden. Don't use aerosol. And by all means, don't burn or deface our flag. Remember, as a citizen of the United States, your living in God's country. If you are fortunate enough to know your ethnic heritage, dress the part! Don't do drugs. You should listen to at least one of the following PC musicians: U2, REM, Sinead O'Connor, Sting, or k d lang.
This is , of course , a complete load of boll*x - everyone knows that God's Country is ,in fact , Lancashire, and that the musicians quoted above are actually rubbish... | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 2:12:18 AM |
tolerance for a diversity of cultures, race, gender, ideology and alternate lifestyles.
This is madness?
Oy gevalt!
There is a duality that is rather consistant - on one hand there is a near concensus that "PC" is a farce, yet nearly all those holding this view recognize that there are some boundries that musn't be crossed.
Does everybody ALSO realize that both ideas converge?
my father once told me that "things" labeled with the suffix, "-ism" usually involved a victim and a perpetrator
Those who recognize "some" boundries understand this. The difference between the two is that the PC has as its function, the inclusion of any and all potentially offended PEOPLE. It recognizes only one race, the human race. As for "some" boundries: where do you draw them? If in fact the best way is arbitrarily, depending on our OWN view only, what redress can you possibly expect when someone else crosses YOUR boundry?
What may seem PC madness to you, may be extremely hurtful to somebody's CHILD.
If you're a parent and your child is made to feel less "human", ...do you just turn your back?
Whether or not people want to admit it, it's a smaller world than it used to be, the imaginary bubble of "your space" touches a lot more bubbles, plurlism is a reality, as is multi culturalism, ....the one thing you have to ask yourself is:
Are all children worth being treated with the same dignity and respect?
...or just "some"?
How about people?
"Be the change you want to see in the world"
-M. Ghandi | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 2:44:37 AM | I think it has most definitely gone mad.
I lost my job for making a "racist remark". I referred to an American colleague (who is white) as my "colonial cousin". I was escorted from the premises for this remark that was said at his out of hours leaving party and presentation.
He was disgusted at the action taken and apologised for what had happened. He saw no offence whatsoever and happy to receive the accolade. We are still good friends and is now back in New York State. | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 2:52:59 AM | I think that there is some blurring of the messages in this thread , and consequently some misunderstanding..
Far as I can see, no-one is saying that the concept of "pc" is wrong .. we all know that we should be tolerant towards others etc etc .
the point of the thread is to highlight the ridiculous levels that the "pc brigade" have infiltrated our lives telling us what we can and cannot say.
Yes, if my child is made to feel less "human" then I will respond .
Equally when someone tells me that I cannot sing a traditional children's song about a black sheep , then I will also respond : if someone tells me that I am no longer allowed to write on a blackboard, then I will also respond .
This instance is no longer about making a disadvantaged group of society feel worse , this is about paranoia around certain words ! | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 2:56:20 AM | Well I have a disability, and do not mind anyone saying disabled! "I am disabled", The word handicapped does not bother me either, I do have a handicap! and I believe golfers do too dont they? The word spastic can be insulting, many times it is not used intentionally to be derogatory. I have a blue badge (I know! I know! another one of them lol) to be honest myself and friends when going out refer to it like so: - have you got the spas (spaz) badge. It does depend how it is used. When I am having a bad day regards to my disability,my family friends etc, say things like :- come on you old fart! we aint got all day, struggling to walk they say things like :- whats wrong with you pissed again,. "I would not have it any other way" it is done jokingly and makes light of a bad time. My retort :- its ok for you I was half legless before we came into the pub.
When pushed into JBsports on my spas chariot(wheelchair) a guy came up and asked:- can I help you sir? Yes said I, I want some new running shoes. Lots of giggles and we all had a nice time. (didnt get the shoes though) Frivolity livens up the boring drab old routine. Not too much friv mind (frivolity) lol .
A lot of this PC has gone too far in my humble opinion, I cannot understand the blackboard thing, I can still buy a white shirt, and white paint, and white paper!! and neither the christmas stuff, and others mentioned on this post. I mean PC we are caucasian, but rarely reffered to as such, mostly I hear white?
Then again at the end of the day we can moan all we like, complain even, I doubt it will change anything, the way to go is to stop it happening in the first place once changed the chances of changing back are remote.
Have a good weekend folks and try to stay out of trouble, | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 3:06:59 AM | On a personal level i'm FOR Political Correctness to a degree ,but only when its used for its intended purpose and not abused or taken to an absurd level !!
In the wrong hands and used to extremities imo it encourages offence to be taken where none is intended and has thus has the reverse effect of breeding further divide/differences.
Despite being portrayed to be in the name of tolerance, political correctness once abused appears at times to be completely intolerant of anyone who does not act in a politically correct fashion causing further divide and resentment !!
I.e Politically to gain a vote or those intentionally preying on the slightest wrong word in which they can jump on the "Compensation for hurt feelings" wagon . Which in turn unfortunately waters down the true cause and loses its clout and in turn breeds contempt!!
I think that most of us that come across on here as being un-PC really are'nt...........its the extreme and absurd levels that its been taken to we have the problem with !!
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 3:35:51 AM | Equally when someone tells me that I cannot sing a traditional children's song about a black sheep , then I will also respond
Who, exactly, ...is saying you can't? | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 3:47:21 AM | Snow white and the seven DWARFS ..................shouldnt this be changed to vertically challenged ?
Was Humpty Dumpty implicated as a CRACKHEAD ?
Who actually decides on what is acceptable and what is not ?
I believe your OWN common decency and civility to others should prevail, its called a CONSCIENCE !!
We are ultimately responsible for OURSELVES !!
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 3:51:38 AM | A lady in a city close to myself, had a collection of piggy banks ( porcelein) Spelling,
She had them displayed for many years where they could be seen from the street, typical terrace house rows, in a predominantley Asian area. Someone complained about the pigs, and she was told by the local authority to take them down and have them out of sight. because of religious feelings. She did not, then she was warned they would be taken away from her, she did nothing! they where then confiscated, from her with a court order, saying it was upsetting other religions (PC gone mad) she went to a solicitor and fought to have them returned.At great expense to herself, she won and the authority where told to return them, unfortunatley when she recieved them most had been broken in an unexplained accident. PC gone mad!
What has happened to " Live and Let Live" | |
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| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 3:56:03 AM |
Who, exactly, ...is saying you can't?
in the schools and nurseries over here in the uk they do not alow the children to sing baa baa black sheep any more and there are other songs that are also not allowed to be sung now | |
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cargy
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Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 100 | |
| Has political correctness gone mad?
Posted: 1/27/2008 4:02:50 AM | my father once told me that "things" labeled with the suffix, "-ism" usually involved a victim and a perpetrator
I'm glad your father chose to carefully qualify that with the word "usually". He sounds a very intelligent and socially conscious chap, so picked that qualifier because he knew it is a good rule-of-thumb, but not strictly accurate.
That is to say there are examples of "-isms" with neither victim, nor aggressor. But I have no doubt were I to list them it would be described as "cherry picking"!
I don't think there is anyone on here who doesn't accept that there is a point up to which Political Correctness has worked to discourage offensive concepts and expressions. But, this thread quite rightly asks if it has gone mad.
I don't think there are many people who are unaware that the ideal is approaching (if it has not crossed) the boundary of good sense, and is rapidly descending into lunacy and ridicule.
No one denies there are offensive and derogatory words that are intended to cause hurt, but when innocent and otherwise harmless phrases, objects, and symbols, become demonised through nothing more than misinterpretation and over-sensitivity, and this begins to intrude on the everyday lives of non-discriminatory people, and causes resentment, it is clearly not serving the intended purpose.
A good example of this is the CD-Rom based on the 3 little pigs that was recently rejected for an award simply because the judging panel considered that "the use of pigs raises cultural issues", and that it "could not recommend this product to the Muslim community". Or to paraphrase, it might offend a minority, so just in case...!
There is an old adage "the road to hell is paved with good intention". I believe that Political Correctness as it exists today is a good example of this because, as many posters have been at pains to point out in this thread; it now serves to highlight cultural differences where the awareness did not exist before. | |
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