| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/21/2006 7:11:01 AM | I loved Obama until I found out his position on Gun Control. Besides that, he looked like a great change for the United States.
http://www.issues2000.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/21/2006 7:25:56 AM | | Sorry, I agree with his gun control positions. I suppose you think the constitution, whose authors couldn't even dream of semi automatic weapons, gives citizens the right to own a weapon which is designed soley to kill large numbers of people efficently? | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/21/2006 7:26:58 AM | I find it a reasonable position.......what do you need a semi-automatic for? If you're not a criminal, why do you care if there are more restrictions? You should note he's calling for the states to enact these restrictions, not the federal government. What's the problem with child safety locks? As someone seeking a future in LE, you should be all for those.
Why should gun manufacturers be exempt from the same product liability laws as every other company that manufactures a product for public use? If faulty production or design causes someones death, the gun maker should be liable. If a gun dealer knowingly sells firearms to someone intending to commit a crime, he too should be liable. Why does anyone besides law enforcement or military need armor piercing bullets?
Care to elaborate just why you have a problem w/ his position? | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/21/2006 5:06:56 PM | I feel the same way. Semi automatics aren't used for hunting. I would much rather have reasonable gun laws to protect the public from criminals with guns.
Barack Obama in '08!!!! | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/21/2006 8:07:29 PM |
I loved Obama until I found out his position on Gun Control. Besides that, he looked like a great change for the United States.
This is called a wedge issue. It is something that a lot of people will have a response to either way and over look things that are probably more important on the list of things they will have in common or not in the other way with the candidate. Not saying I would vote for A democrat or a republican but, I know for sure I would not not elect them or NOT elect them based on where they stand on gun control. The chance that they will be able to change much on this hot topic is slight. That battle stands in the congress and the supreme court really. The president really don't do much in the area of making laws. So your concerns here are slight at best. I would be more concerned with what they will do with foreign policies, economic policies, health care, education, and making pay of people more equal so there are not such HUGE gaps between rich and poor.
Gun control/Gun rights are important issues when voting for law makers not so much executive branch. They have to get everything they do passed congress/senate/supreme court and here they are not likely to get away with major changes to gun laws. They can put a bill up but, chances are on this hot topic it wont go far if it is too broad. | |
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Tao97
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Joined: 12/10/2006
Msg: 131 | |
| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/22/2006 12:52:11 AM | Seems some black people are not too thrilled with Obama. Go here to find out why:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061221/ts_alt_afp/usvoteobamarace2008_061221085638 | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/22/2006 5:39:21 AM | If elected, Obama's job will be to represent all Americans not just black ones. The article you posted basically states that some are luke warm because he does not have a slave heritage. That would simply be a prejudice on their part. I seem to remember some thought Colin Powell was not "black enough" too. While that is their right to feel that way, it is incredibly short sighted.
I heard someone talking about him last night and their opinion was that he was a leader like Reagan and Clinton. Someone possessing the skills to have people follow him. We have had lots of Presidents in my lifetime. I can think of only three that were true leaders, Reagan, JFK and Clinton. America sorely needs a leader now and this man may be the one.
Personally I don't give a damn what color he is. That means nothing. What I do care about is someone who has not sold out and so far he has not. In a very short time Obama has become a leader in the senate, a man to be listened to. In that ego filled world, where everyone who looks in the mirror sees the next President of the United States, to be acknowledged for those leadership skills is nothing less than remarkable.
He appears to be a man who can establish workable coilitions and sensible solutions. I hope he runs. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/22/2006 11:50:44 AM | In black american culture, being educated and successful is going to seem "too white" to a few. Google the term "culture of poverty", a sociological concept that claims that traditions and values passed on by an economically marginalized subculture tend to perpetuate those economic handicaps.
Obama doesn't need 100% of the black vote. Mind you, I think he'll get most of it.
But his appeal spans ethnic, social, and political boundaries. | |
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| Barack Obama - for Gun Control
Posted: 12/22/2006 6:06:21 PM | I feel the same way. Semi automatics aren't used for hunting. I would much rather have reasonable gun laws to protect the public from criminals with guns.
The 2nd Amendment wasn't written for hunters. It was written for common citizens to be armed in the event of being called to form a standing militia. Of course military weapons woould be required according to these original writings. Please read your history and DONT inject 21st century mentality into what the founders intended.
Thats a big reason why Obama ISNT the audacity of hope for me. An upstart who re-interprets provisions of the Constitution doesnt get my vote. | |
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| Barack Obama - for Gun Control
Posted: 12/22/2006 6:22:52 PM | | Voting based on one issue such as gun control or abortion is foolish. Look at ALL of Barack's positions before voting for or against him. There's more to life than guns and abortion!! | |
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| Barack Obama - for Gun Control
Posted: 12/22/2006 9:27:27 PM |
The 2nd Amendment wasn't written for hunters. It was written for common citizens to be armed in the event of being called to form a standing militia. Of course military weapons woould be required according to these original writings. Please read your history and DONT inject 21st century mentality into what the founders intended.
Thats a big reason why Obama ISNT the audacity of hope for me. An upstart who re-interprets provisions of the Constitution doesnt get my vote.
Sorry, you're the one who's reinterpreting. Look at how the Supreme Court defined the 2nd Amendment back in the '40's. And that was before cop killer bullets or the explosion of weaponry in the inner cities.
You're just using a radical interpretation of the Amendment to justify something you like, even though it means thousands of innocents killed every year. | |
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| Barack Obama - for Gun Control
Posted: 12/23/2006 9:04:10 AM | >>It was written for common citizens to be armed in the event of being called to form a standing militia.
He's right, that's why it was written--but it was a different country and a different world then, and citizen militias are no longer required for national security. In fact they have often become threats to public safety (like the Waco bunch).
So, by those lights, the 2nd amendment should be removed. | |
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| Barack Obama - for Gun Control
Posted: 12/27/2006 6:07:13 AM | Got the book for X-mas and interestingly enough, Obama notes how the current Repblican leadership(meaning Rove and his ilk) has used the politics of fear and division to drive their voter base. He points out how they have pushed these hot button issues on the public trying to evoke visceral, emotional reactions out of people....leading them to abandon a rational consideration of the issues and candidates and cast their ballot out of fear. The Republicans play on those fears and push the notion that only they can protect us.
neopol, our fellow poster, is an excellent example. He seems to have no interest in exploring Obama further because of his stance on one issue. An issue that while important, has very little to do with effective government. But the Republicans have made neopol afraid that if the Democrats take the White House, the feds will come take his guns.
"Please read your history and DONT inject 21st century mentality into what the founders intended."
It is absolutey essential that we inject a 21st century mentality into Constitutional interpretations. The Founders, while wise beyond measure, could not forsee the global politics or technological changes of our time. The 2nd Ammendment doesn't account for automatic weapons and drive by shootings......cop killer bullets or kids in schools with guns. To stick to a literal translation is wrong headed and narrow minded.
READ THIS BOOK....Dems and Reps alike. It's central theme, as far as I've read, is that it's time for us stop focusing on the things that make us different and reject the poitics of division. And Obama has no qualms with pointing out the flaws in his own party as well. It's the most fair minded piece of political literature I've read in a long time. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 7:58:10 AM | There are plenty of gun debates on the forums, and I have/had no intention of turning a post on Obama into yet another gun control debate.
As I said before, I liked him. But I do indeed vote against anyone who thinks that all semi-automatic weapons should be banned from public purchase. Just because it's banned, does not mean the criminals would follow such a ban. Prohibition anyone?
With that said, there are plenty of Democrats that agree with me on this issue, and could indeed gain my vote. If he were to change his stance, I'd be all for him. It's honestly the only thing that turns me off about him. For me this is a powerful issue, even if only a single issue among many facing our nation. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 8:49:52 AM |
READ THIS BOOK....Dems and Reps alike. It's central theme, as far as I've read, is that it's time for us stop focusing on the things that make us different and reject the poitics of division. And Obama has no qualms with pointing out the flaws in his own party as well. It's the most fair minded piece of political literature I've read in a long time.
I just got the book for Christmas as well. I started it last night and so far so good.
I think what makes it such a good read is the hope that the thread that unites us is greater than the politics that divide us. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 9:00:38 AM | "It's honestly the only thing that turns me off about him."
So you would reject a potentially unfiying candidate, that by your own words seems to have only this one issue where his stance opposes yours? Isn't that kind throwing the baby out with the bathwater? I respect your right to vote based on any criterion you see fit.....but in my opinion it's that kind of single issue myopia that gave us this current administration. Noone sees the whole picture anymore. We no longer have the sense of community that past generations had.
Honestly....do you really think deciding to ban semi-automatic weapons has the national significance of health care reform, education, the war in iraq, immigration....the list goes on.
When we stop letting both sides scare us into voting based on the relatively minor issues, then and only then, will we elect true statesmen who will govern in a way that is best for the nation as a whole, and not whatever lobby or interest group they are beholden to. How many brilliant legislators and leaders have we sent home or never elected because they were pro-choice or anti-gun. How many visionaries were kicked to the curb because they opposed school prayer or gays in the military?
We must not allow ourselves to be divided this way.
Just out of curiosity.....what exactly do you need a semi-automatic rifle for, ten? | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 9:04:03 AM | "I think what makes it such a good read is the hope that the thread that unites us is greater than the politics that divide us."
Exactly what I thought as i read it, wolves. When was the last time you read political discourse that was this respectful to the opposition and this honest about his own party's shortcomings. Think you'd ever read something that respectful from Coulter or O'Riley....or Franken or Begala for that matter? | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 9:35:47 AM | Sorry, I agree with his gun control positions. I suppose you think the constitution, whose authors couldn't even dream of semi automatic weapons, gives citizens the right to own a weapon which is designed soley to kill large numbers of people efficently?
I suppose you think the constitution, whose authors couldn't even dream of computers and the information superhighway, gives citizens the right to spew false retoric about subjects they know very little if anything about?
If a semi auto loading gun is designed soleyfor killing large numbers of people efficently, then i think youre gonna have to include all guns except a single shot in that catagory.
That said, its really sad the left doesnt understand or want to recognize that gun control costs them more election than anything else. A majority republican congress was voted in in 2000 mainly because of gun control. The waste of paper bill, The Assault Weapons Bill, was what many gun owning voters were voting for. Anyone who didnt support the crap bill they voted for. I watched the internet close during this election. I for one am on the left and glad to see the bill go. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 9:39:04 AM |
I feel the same way. Semi automatics aren't used for hunting. I would much rather have reasonable gun laws to protect the public from criminals with guns.
This statement must come from your vast knowledge of hunting and hunting rifles and shotguns i would guess. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 10:48:12 AM |
Exactly what I thought as i read it, wolves. When was the last time you read political discourse that was this respectful to the opposition and this honest about his own party's shortcomings. Think you'd ever read something that respectful from Coulter or O'Riley....or Franken or Begala for that matter?
Yep, so true.
Why has civil debate left politics?
Do political differences lead to hate anymore?
Put aside the hope of Barack Obama running for the White House. That matters little.
I think, (disclaimer...I haven't finished the book yet), the idea alone of debate and respect in politics is overdue. This doesn't mean that I am naive...Politics is a full contact profession. But, the dirt, the disrespect and the simple lack of both parties not getting anything done in Washington is getting worse.
I will let you know after reading the rest of the book,investigating his Senate and Chicago political record before I decide he is my front runner. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 10:50:35 AM | "I suppose you think the constitution, whose authors couldn't even dream of computers and the information superhighway, gives citizens the right to spew false retoric about subjects they know very little if anything about?"
As a matter of fact, junior, it does. You are familiar with freedom of speech are you not. Writing posts on the internet doesn't really equate with shouting "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater so, as a citizen I can say what i please.
"If a semi auto loading gun is designed soleyfor killing large numbers of people efficently, then i think youre gonna have to include all guns except a single shot in that catagory."
I have no problem with that.
"A majority republican congress was voted in in 2000 mainly because of gun control."
I think you better go research that statement. The Republicans pushed hard on the morals and family values, gun control was certainly a factor....but I daresay most people on either side couldn't tell you the first thing in that bill(Assault Weapons Ban)without Googling it first. Besides the bill expired on it's own in 2004. It had no impact on the 2000 election. Clinton signed into law in 1994(and yet somehow got re-elected in 1996....so much for your theory on gun control deciding elections, huh?) for a ten year length. Bush intended to sign the renewal had it passed but the Dems made the mistake of attaching it as a rider on other legislation and it failed and thus expired. The only problem i had with it was that it was worded so vaguely that the gun manufacturers just made cosmetic changes to pass the requirements and kept right on producing them.
But we are drifting off topic again.... | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 11:29:09 AM |
As a matter of fact, junior, it does. You are familiar with freedom of speech are you not. Writing posts on the internet doesn't really equate with shouting "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater so, as a citizen I can say what i please.
Well, as a matter of fact, dad, you just proved the point i was making.
The AWB had total effect on the 2000 election. It had to be revoted on again, as said in the sunset clause. And since you bring clinton up, you can google and find his opinion that staunch gun control policies cost gore many votes. The reason you point out for not liking the bill is a valid one. While i disagree with a firearms ban to responsible law abiding citizens, the ban was cosmetic crap that did absolutly nothing to curb crime or keep guns out of criminals hands. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 12:21:46 PM | i b jackson.....
I admitted that gun control may have played a role in that election, but clearly there were two primary reasons for Gore's loss and guns wasn't one of them:
1)-Ralph Nader
2)"The sharpest differences among partisan groups came on the topic of morality. Already by 1992, Republicans were much more concerned than Democrats or independents about the alleged moral decay of society, in the form of permissive attitudes toward sex, abortion, gays and lesbians, and secularism. The difference grew larger by 2000, especially if one adds together the moral decay category and the category having to do with corruption and scandals in Washington. Morality was mentioned most frequently by Republicans as the "single most important problem" facing the nation."-wikipedia
I know...wikipedia blows but this summed up my point well.
"And since you bring clinton up, you can google and find his opinion that staunch gun control policies cost gore many votes."
Key word there is "opinion"...doesn't make it fact any more than my opinion or yours does. We can only say with certainty the reasons why we ourselves voted as we did. I've read some of your other posts and i think we're on the same page on most issues...we'll just have to agree to disagree here. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/27/2006 3:29:51 PM |
So you would reject a potentially unfiying candidate, that by your own words seems to have only this one issue where his stance opposes yours?
Yes.
Just out of curiosity.....what exactly do you need a semi-automatic rifle for, ten?
Read my last post. 
Also, with the vote of several democrats, that bill passed with bi-partisan support. As stated earler, I'd gladly vote for him if he did not jump to the extreme left on such issues.
The last statements that I've been able to find from him on these issues were from 1998. And honest to god, that still gives him a chance to redeem himself to me. As long as he does not turn into a full blown flip flopper, (Kerry anyone?) I'd still give him a chance. But sadly, most who vote against my views on gun control know very little about firearms themselves. | |
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| Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 12/28/2006 5:41:25 AM | "But sadly, most who vote against my views on gun control know very little about firearms themselves"
Quite an assumption on your part and rather arrogant I might add. Anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant.....i see what i'm dealing with now.
"As stated earler, I'd gladly vote for him if he did not jump to the extreme left on such issues."
What issues? In the earlier post it was only this issue.
"Just out of curiosity.....what exactly do you need a semi-automatic rifle for, ten?
Read my last post."
I did. So you're saying you need a semi-automatic rifle because you think the criminals will have them. You realize you're more likely to shoot yourself or someone close to you than you are an intruder? That old crap about "if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns" is nonsense. ALL guns start out legal....then some percentage find their way to the black market. Therefore if there are fewer legal guns, fewer guns will find their way to the black market. | |
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