| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/24/2005 6:22:06 PM | | Poverty is relative, it's true the rest of the world does not enjoy a standard of $12,0000 but get serious - what sort of life do you think an American with an income of $12,000 has? I mean truly give it some thought -$12,000 dollars may be the earth, sun and moon in Cambodia, but in America? The whole "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" in "land of opportunity" is immeasureably harder than you could possibly imagine; there's a reason it's called GRINDING poverty. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/24/2005 7:39:39 PM | | Eccentric, I must admit to apparently being out of touch on the voucher issue. I had to deal with something offline on those last posts which looking back on were quite bad. My understanding of vouchers was that they would not cover the full cost of Private School and because of that I didn't see how they would benefit most if not a vast majority of urban poor. Living Paycheck to paycheck as it is how could a truly poor family come up with thousands of dollars more to take advantage of a voucher? PLEASE CORRECT ME for my information is certainly dated. No exscuses. My apologies. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/24/2005 8:01:03 PM | | Well, have now seen your subsequent post to me Eccentric. I apologize for just "visiting" the inner city. What do you know about me? As the youngest of my generation I was the first of eight children, 4 sibs & cousins who's parents raised me, to go to Private School, in High School. I was stabbed in Roxbury, MA. Ever play basketball in East Saint Louis? I wonder whether or not I've been shot at a bit more than yourself? No, I don't have all the facts and I'm scarred and lumped enough that my thought sequences aren't always the greatest. If you want to enlighten me message me. Do keep the patronizing speculation going too though, it is entertaining and as unpalatable as it might be I will always admit my mistakes, even to condescending little boys that pity themselves. Many thanks. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/24/2005 9:00:48 PM | First off, excellent post slurpee.
More money should not equal more votes or say in a democracy.
And yet this is exactly the situation we now find ourselves in this modern democracy.
The founding fathers were both aware and wary of the distorting influences of money on governance, they believed that the 3 tiers of government would supply sufficient checks to prevent an imbalance in power from riding roughshod over the will of the people. A crucial component of the mechanism that they had in mind was that an informed populace would not allow blatant manipulation by an aristocarcy of corporate/ economic influence to ever again be able to establish rule by (monarchial) decree, but that governance would become a mechanism of law. What they did not bargain for is the depths to which money has been able to successfully subvert that system and the extent to which the populace is truly "informed".
I bet they would be completely shocked if they could see what has become of their vision.
Try this equation -> what is the pruported costs to transform the american infrastructure to hydrogen power and alternative power sources. What is the cost to the end consumer that is. And what is the cost of the Iraq war? Military and rebuilding costs. Which would have been cheaper?
Truly, to me, your question gets to the heart of the matter. What are the "opportunity costs" that are being squandered by allegiance to the maintainance of status quo systems?
Regarding your question, I have often wondered the same, and have no idea on the cost differential. To me the question illustrates that as long as the national treasure is expended to
securing resources (whether defensively or agressively) that are in already diminishing supplies only exascerbates the problem further and insures their will be less resources allocated to fund the ultimate solutions we will of necessity be forced to seek. Of course in the meantime the capital
invested in traditional energy and armament will become exponentially more profitable as the supply diminishes. This is obviously a good deal for who have their capital in either, but does little
to enhance the quality of life for any but themselves. It in fact resembles a sort of inverted ponzi scheme, wherein as the resource diminishes we will be required to take increasingly defensive measures to secure them, and while paying those costs be subject to the escalating price of energy driven by growth and increasing market competition for it.
Do you have any idea /answer / source that sheds some speculative light on the comparison? | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/24/2005 9:22:00 PM | | Forgive the vent folks, please. great stuff on the energy questions. Darjeeling might remember how Reagen got rid of the solar energy tax credit. They are building today several coal fired power plants. SUVS, and I'm guilty myself of a 20 year old 6 banger, nullified most of the gains from the Clean Air Act. Like so many things, shockingly ignored. Has anybody heard of any Mass Transportation proposals from this administration? | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/25/2005 6:42:46 AM | First cabin, I do not pity myself. I worked my ass off and hustled a few people, but I don't have to raise my daughter in the inner city. I got out, but I still remember what it was like and how hard it was. I am a bit condescending though, because I did everything good in my life on my own, something not even you can claim.
Let's drop the petty arguing and go back to the issues.
Your point on vouchers is a good one, I'll have to do some thinking and research first. If they don't cover the entire cost, there are some that would still not be able to afford it, but it puts that option within a better reach. I don't want to add that into another social service program, which is already so heavily overloaded. Let me work this over a bit okay. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/25/2005 6:46:19 AM |
What they did not bargain for is the depths to which money has been able to successfully subvert that system and the extent to which the populace is truly "informed".
Not to mention the apathy....  | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/25/2005 7:49:02 AM | | OK Eccentric. I ask your forgiveness on the vent too. Forgive the pity comment too, uncalled for. I never imagined a few days on this box would give me so much food for thought. My perspective hasn't been fed like this in years. Thanks all, my apologies for slipping back into the bush of ignorance last night. I'll try to get a better understanding of vouchers myself. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/25/2005 7:56:51 AM |
What they did not bargain for is the depths to which money has been able to successfully subvert that system and the extent to which the populace is truly "informed". [/quote Not to mention the apathy.... Yeah, the apparent apathy that pervades a large swath of the electorate from making any choice in our representation. This lack of interest, may be accounted to a variety of things including mere stupidity and laziness, but I believe goes hand in hand with the corrupting influence of money on the system. These folks get the impression that no matter who they vote for things won't change in their lives much anyway. It is sometimes hard to argue that their logic is wrong seeing the dismal choices of candidates our monied driven system promotes. These non voters know sometrhing is wrong with the system, and haven't the time or temperment to discover what it is. It takes work to stay abreast of the complications involved in what shapes policy and law and that is what our representatives are supposedly tasked to do, watch out for the general welfare of the people's interests. Instead they are having power lunches with lobbiests and taking junkets to Israel financed by JINSA. They are right to believe in these situations, that those getting the grease are beholden to their benefactors. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/25/2005 10:14:07 PM | Sadly, in mental health care, we rank pretty far down on the list. I was suprised to see that France and Ireland have some excellent programs where they incorporate the mentally ill into familes who take care of them. The Irish make sure the mentally ill have homes and job placement in some quarters.
What are these countries doing that we, the US, the most powerful and abundant country can't do for our own? Why are we ranked so low?
The debate between conservatives and liberals will always rage on. It gets a bit boring. I just wish there could be some compromise.
Funny thing is, there are more Democractic millionaires than Republicians, so who is paying more in taxes?
Wow, the Democrats!
What's gone wrong with America. I think we have just become one large overwrought fast food/material goods consumer depending on other countries WAY too much. Eventually somethings gotta give and it won't be pretty when that happens.
Toonsmith | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/25/2005 10:53:18 PM | the problem with America and Americans (which iam one and i take pride in it) and i vete demopcrate not because iam deprived and not because iam black and not because i dont work. it is because i truly belive that republicans have lost their way and the democrats have gotten off the path but the democrats are the lesser of two eveils. andf the independents have not come out with a clear platform that is logical and can work (except maybe nader but nader has marginalized hinmself and he perfersd to work outside the system instead of destroying it from within).
No the problem with my country and please here me.
We have forgotten who the government works for. and we buy intop the whole notion that what they say on the campaign trail is what we are going to get.
but once they get into office they have to start raising funds for the next election. so how can they do the peoples work.
plain and simple. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/26/2005 9:21:54 AM |
The rules are set by the rich and moneyed. Social policy is constructed to benefit them. More money should not equal more votes or say in a democracy
This is the real problem, both political parties are controlled by the wealthy. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/26/2005 10:48:29 PM | | Yes, well, the wealthy usually have access to better education, the bankroll to finance a campaign, and the connections to get what they want. This isn't a perfect world, and maybe we should focus on reality instead of some Utopian future where equality is fact, and not just an debate. American politics rely on the appointment of people to rule and make laws, because we don't want to bother with going to the polls every day to vote on every bit of legislation. We put our trust in our leaders to do the right thing. Forgive me if I sound naive, but I do my job as best I can without oversight committes and Congress breathing down my neck. I don't find it hard to believe that Bush, or Clinton, or any other president actually tried to do the best they could. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/27/2005 12:21:11 PM |
Forgive me if I sound naive, but I do my job as best I can without oversight committes and Congress breathing down my neck. I don't find it hard to believe that Bush, or Clinton, or any other president actually tried to do the best they could.
In the performance of such duties, are large segnments your time invested in, the lofty pursuits of, camoflauging the time and resources needed to accomplish your work, purposefully creating divisions within the workplace, establishing lines of plausable deniability, taking both undue credit for ideas and production, while deflecting all blame and accountability if a major f*ck-up occurs?
Selling out your employer, through subtle sabotage and getting kickbacks on the side?
I would guess you do your job quite well Bulldog and would believe it dishonest and counter productive to be engaged in any kind of the above.
I really don't believe they do their best in fullfilling their job responsibilties to their employers, all of the American people, but do their best to do what is best for their own interests, be they personal ambition, maintaining influence and power, insuring economic enrichment for themselves and their benefactors, and fullfilling ideologically driven objectives that are largely hidden from view. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/27/2005 12:42:57 PM | I have no problem with my tax money going to help people out. However, the system as it is currently set up is NOT meant to help hardworking people who are down on their luck. I have direct, personal experience with this from when my father was sick and couldn't work--you have a far greater chance to receive welfare and such if you have not worked for over 5 years. Or if you do drugs and need treatment at taxpayer expense. Or if you multiple kids by different dads and don't want to work to support them. When my father was sick the only charity he received was from private sources--didn't get a dime from the gov. until, after over a year of trying, he got a small SSD check.
The government handouts currently benefit only those who do nothing to earn them. And those who need the help are told to piss off. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/27/2005 2:05:08 PM | | I respect your post, darjeeling. I think everyone has opportunities to do alot of shitty things if they want to. I boil it down to personal responsibility. I don't believe that every politician is out to get rich at the expense of others. I think they are human beings just like you and me. Yes, there are some peple like that, but I think they are the exception, and not the rule. It's far too easy to villify every politician, than to understand all the processes, commitments, campaigns, rules, etc. that they must adhere to. I may not approve of everything that Clinton or Bush did/do, but I have absolutely no way of knowing if I would have made the same decisions they made, if I were in there place. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/27/2005 7:00:28 PM | blackprince: Please don't think I'm picking on your post, but it deals more directly with the problem than any other here, so I'm using it as kind of a "springboard" on my argument:
The politicians haven't forgotten who they work for. They know all too well who put them into office and how much money the people spent to put them there. The people who put them there are not working folks like you and me. They are rich folks: corporations.
American has become what some would call a "corporatocracy". NOBODY gets to the point where they have a chance to get elected without major size donations from corporate america. This is the reason we only have the "lesser of two evils" to choose from.
it's been going on since the beginning of the 20th century when Teddy Roosevelt quit the republicans because Howard Taft was only interested in running the country for big business.
Until the campaign contribution laws are changed to limit the size of those contributions, it will be the same. One nation run by corporations, over all..... | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/28/2005 10:43:48 AM | I was cleaning out my piles of old news paper clippings and magazines. I can across an article my brother sent me from the “Georgia Tribune” about 18 years ago.
I scanned it if anyone wants a copy. The article reads as follows.
Atlanta News 1981
An Atlanta man was arrested Friday for filing a false police report about a killing that never took place.
(Name Withheld)from Atlanta had apparently called the Atlanta Police to report a robbery in place where a neighborhood garage was being robbed. (Name Withheld)had made sever calls to the police with no action. On his last call to the Atlanta police he was told that there were no units available. (Name Withheld) decided to take matters into his own hands and had called the Atlanta Police to notify them that he had shot and killed the perpetrators, and to get there at their leisure.
Several Patrol cars were dispatched with in minutes along with a police helicopter. The police apprehended the thieves placing them in custody and then arrested (Name Withheld) for calling in a false Police Report.
When asked why he had called in to report a lie, He responded “Well the police did the same by telling him they had no units available for dispatch.” Eight patrol cars along with the helicopter.
(Name Withheld) was released with out posting bail.
Funny things happen in America. | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/28/2005 11:00:58 AM | Ya'll want some cheese with that Whine?
Jeez, so we heard all of your takes on what is "wrong" with America. Ok wise asses, so how would YOU fix it? If America is so dreaded awful, how come the world expects us to be the worlds policemen?
How come the world looks for us for aid and charity when floods, fires and quakes happen?
Why is it we are so terrible and awful, yet so many countries want the same things we have.
If we are so terrible, why doesn't the world just get their sh*ttogether, bomb the hell out of us and set us the new world order in downtown Manhattan??
I'll tell ya why. Nothing easier in this world that to moan and complain. But it gets harder when it is time to put up or shut up about how to fix a perceived problem.
The US is not perfect. Dare ya to find any country or government that is. Or ever was for that matter. But love it or hate it, we are the best thing going today.
For those who complain how terrible the US is, why not go live in Cuba, or Somalia, or Chad, or perhaps Iran. Or China. Or maybe even West Timor. Then let's see what you say. That is of course if you survive in the first place.
As the bumper sticker says, "Love it or leave it". | |
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| What’s gone wrong with America?
Posted: 3/28/2005 11:03:39 AM | Oh boy... one more creative genius with the old "If you don't like it leave" chesnut.
Such a clever bunch you are...  | |
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