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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 10/23/2006 8:15:05 AM | Come on Spinner, don't try to use logic in the arguement.
It's like poking a skunk......just pi$$e$ off the skunk and then you both stink!
DMT obviously it takes a rocket scientist to know when someone is being sarcastic and screwing with you. Had a feeling you wouldn't see the humor.
Murder has happened before gun powder and firearms were invented. Will happen even if they are outlawed, banned and all destroyed. Nature of some of the beasts who roam this earth. And making the world that wonderful Utopia that I have a feeling you would propose, wouldn't change that fact. You can't legislate how peole feel, react, believe, or who they like or dislike.
Oh, and incase you think that I would believe differantly if I had known someone who was the victim of gun violence. High school friend of mine was murdered by someone who thought my friend was gay. I don't know if he was nor do I care. I blame the rectal sphincter who pulled the trigger, not the weapon.
On another side note: Whitetailed deer hunting seasons opens in my state in about a month. Approximately 650,000 hunters armed with high powered rifles, shotguns, and handguns will be in the woods and fields. With all those "trigger happy fruitloops" running around, you would think that murder rates would increase dramatically, given your belief that guns cause crime. During my 30 years of deer hunting, I can think only of two instances that someone has been murdered during the season. Yes there are accidental shootings and some deaths, those generally are under five per year and most are self inflicted.
My apologies to anyone who thinks I am trying to hijack the thread. I tend to be a little passionate in my beliefs.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 10/23/2006 8:54:40 AM | Murder has happened before gun powder and firearms were invented.
No one's arguing this
Will happen even if they are outlawed, banned and all destroyed.
Or this
Nature of some of the beasts who roam this earth.
This either
And making the world that wonderful Utopia that I have a feeling you would propose, wouldn't change that fact. You can't legislate how peole feel, react, believe, or who they like or dislike.
Um, ...he was asking about stats.
On another side note: Whitetailed deer hunting seasons opens in my state in about a month. Approximately 650,000 hunters armed with high powered rifles, shotguns, and handguns will be in the woods and fields. With all those "trigger happy fruitloops" running around, you would think that murder rates would increase dramatically, given your belief that guns cause crime. During my 30 years of deer hunting, I can think only of two instances that someone has been murdered during the season. Yes there are accidental shootings and some deaths, those generally are under five per year and most are self inflicted.
This isn't exactly a valid cite or source for research.
DMT, there is a correlation between access and mortality rates, but it isn't the only factor.
Homicide rates for example, are also subject somewhat to socio-economic factors, and culteral ones.
If you have access to databases at your school, I can give you more reliable peer-reviewed journal links that are closed to public access.
Do check out the URLs in post #26 though, they're quite extensive. The link to the Health Canada site has some very useful internation comparison stats, and they're all supported by APA style citation, so you can source the material in an academically acceptable manner. | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 10/23/2006 11:28:53 AM | Guns ownership itself has no clear direct correlation to Homicide rates.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html
This is why I bring up the neurological factors on why humans choose to use any weapon, gun or car in a lethal manner.
Alcohol, drugs and the socio-political environment are the major factors on gun use in homicides.
According to the above link and stats:
Finland has 23% gun ownership, lower gun homicides than USA with .86 percent Firearm Homicide.
Switzerland 27% gun ownership, lower gun homicides than USA with .58 percent Firearm Homicide.
Norway has 32% gun ownership, lower gun homicides than USA with .30 percent Firearm Homicide.
United States 39% gun ownership, lower gun homiicides, lower than Estonia (28%) and N. Ireland (8%), with a 3.72 percent Firearm Homicide
The USA is 7% higher in gun ownership than Norway, but with over 11 times the gun homicides.
Yes they drink hard in Scandanavia, but then why still the low gun homicides?
It is cultural. It is socio-political. In Scandanavia and Canada alcohol is a controlled substance as are firearms to a much larger degree than the USA.
We also have a 1st Amendment and 2nd Amendment because unlike Scandanavia and Canada, we were not "given" our freedom of speech and rights, but fought for them and put them into stronger laws.
Guns and Alcohol are controlled in the USA under BATF, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
We in the USA did fight for our freedoms, the only Democracy to do so.
1st Amendment is Freedom of Speech, no other nation listed above has that with 230 years of legacy.
2nd Amendment is Right to Bear Arms, which backs up the 1st Amendment.
Literacy and education is one thing that will cut down on crime. Instead of 42% of our tax budget going to Military, we should have 42% of our tax money going to schools and higher education, that alone would cut down on people using guns to get their way.
If the USA took away the 2nd Amendment and right to bear arms and kept 42% of tax money on military, we would still have an illiterate, thuggish, dumb nation that would be feudal.
Education and Control Alcohol is my proposal.
We have poor, undeducated people holding up liquor stores in the USA because their parents work two jobs to survive to pay for the military which supports Big OIl instead of their parent's tax money going to pay for college for these uneducated people.
The less a population has to work to fund an overseas military, the more time to spend with children and teach them Morals.
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DMT
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Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 29 | |
| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 10/24/2006 1:53:38 PM | Again Mike, well done.
It's refreshing for someone in the US to admit that the education system is in real need for improvement.
My experience of people educated in the states has been limited to time with people who were doing some or all of their undergrad' or postgrad' courses in the UK. Often these appeared to have very supportive background in America and had spent time at supposedly excellent American colleges - like Brown, Princeton and UCLA but they really struggled with the work here - even though compared to many other European countries English universitis are quite laid back.
The thing that the domestic students and staff seemed to notice was the insularity of the visiting students perceptions. It became a standing joke that in seminars and tutorials they would start all their contributions to discussions with the phrase "This one time I.....", as though their extremely limited experiences would have profound consequences on a issue. They tended to feel very confident about their opinions but very often these lacked insight, analysis, reflexivity, sensitivity, or evidence of experience of or interest in a broader world.
This got me thinking that if that is the standard coming out of "elite" colleges, what must be the standard of education in less well funded colleges, high schools and juior schools?
And, if as you and others have said, America is cursed by a poor education system, a great deal of deprivation, big problems with alcohol, other drugs and extreme inequalities, is it really the best place to have guns being easily available to the general public? | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 10/24/2006 2:29:26 PM | DMT,
College should be about developing our ability to question and to commit to radical research, to advance knowledge in other words.
Good small colleges very often are the best for developing the mind and ability to think. It depends on the actual Department or field you are interested in. Put the name of the college aside and looks at the departments, study their faculty and their last 5 years of research. You'll be very suprises that some universities and colleges have just outstanding departments and faculties in certain areas, that you were never aware of.
College experience is about human resources and material resources, the name value is only for those with a weakness for vanity.
Cookie-cutter mass thought brianwashing universities and colleges can be either the elite Ivy League such as Harvard and Yale or the local Junior Community College, it just depends on how much you are aware of what you think the world needs to learn and what the power controllers want you to learn.
Your mind can be free in a Harvard cookie-cutter or JC, as long as you are courageous in the your individual thought and practice rigorous honesty in your research. If you do any ground breaking research, expect to face the gauntlet of the lesser minds.
Some of the best methods to avoid the Generation Trap in college research is to study a few generations back, to avoid Political bias and other generational blindess. Few researchers of college age have the gift to see beyond their generation and be truly independent in the way Galileo was.
So often our greatest danger is to try to conform learning to our morals, when it's morals that guide our learning.
Perhaps you can create a comprehensive, unified theory, for Social Violence, that would make this world a far better place. Document your work well. | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 10/28/2006 11:04:45 AM |
Close but no cigar!
I think you will find that the secret and dispicable substance behind all killings and suicides was AIR.
Now if only the powerful governments and corporations of the planet would find a way of destroying the air, then there will be no murders or suicides - and no humans or other animals.
No air=no life=no killings. Keep up the good work George.
Blimmey! The naked truth was right before my very nose. My apologies. LOL
People will find a way to kill if they are so inclined. Guns seem to make little difference in whether more people are killed or not. In societies where guns are plentiful and easy to obtain it stands to reason that lots of people will be killed by people using guns. If guns are not available then other methods will be used. The focus should not be on the weapon of choice as a means to curtail the violence. The focus should be on the causes that incite people to use any weapon, including their own body, to kill another human.
There is so much frustration in the so called civilized societies due to the proliferation of bureaucracies. As a society or culture becomes more "civilized" justice seems to become more a commodity for sale. Those without the resources or patience for the very less than perfect system to work it all out will find another means whether justified or not.
To paraphrase an old cliche... it's not the guns that kill people... people kill people. And anyone bent on harming another will use any means at their disposal whether it be the legal system (often seeming absent of justice), guns, knives, ropes, strings, wires, wooden clubs, pipes, plastic bags, concrete, water, etc., people will find a way.
I propose, like others, that we not focus on the weapons used. These are merely "the symptoms." We need to find the root cause of the unrest. The cause of the injustices felt that are leading to humans killing other humans and address that as a means to a solution. I propose it has a lot to do with the forced competition with each other. We need not compete so much to survive anymore. Yet those in power thrive on us competing with each other. Those in power thrive on our unrest. Those in power thrive on us being divided. We can stop giving them that power at anytime! Why don't we? | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 4/2/2007 12:02:11 PM | Here in Great Britian, it is rare to hear of gun crime, except in places like London and Manchester, even then they are not frequient.
If you Americans didn't have your "right" to buy a gun then less people will be shot dead, alot of them innocent people.
Look at kids in your schools, how many times have pupils open fire on one another?? How many times are teachers and pupils being stabbed??
Is that why murder and mayhem happen in the British Isles even though they have outlawed all firearms, working on outlawing all pointed knives and moving to outlaw swords in Scotland?
At least our government is doing something about knife and gun crime, while your government are sat on their a***s probably watching the simpsons and are too afraid to do anything because they are worried what a few hillbilly red necks will think of it!!
Yes we have crime here, but, we're hardly America!! | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 4/3/2007 10:58:10 AM | "At least our government is doing something about knife and gun crime"---sarahrellyboo
there is a huge difference between DOING SOMETHING and DOING SOMETHING GOOD. spending time finding a solution would be time better spent than using it to create another problem
"Yes we have crime here, but, we're hardly America!!"---sarahrellyboo
correct. in america enough people care about their right to defend themselves that the 2nd gets some support. | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 4/5/2007 3:47:57 AM | I have been watching some Reality TV lately from the States.........COPS. Basically they are out on patrol all over the country and I understand that you really are not allowed to be in possession of a gun unless its in your own house .You can't have it on your person or in the car.They seem to arrest them for that .Now I don't know if its a case of playing to the camera but I think not as I see they are all over.............but the police seem to be around even for minor stuff................a handbag snatch or something....unlike here in the UK .We seem to police ourselves more like .
Anyway........the way the police is in the USA ..I would think that if they banned guns..............your crime rate would be very low indeed. Lower than ours at any rate.You seem to act on crime .Attempt to lower it.Attempt to talk to the criminals. Cop cars and helicopters are out within minutes .There seems to be respect for the police.I tell you...............I came out respecting what your police deal with.Difficult job but they turn up in the most dangerous situations where ours.................you see them if they want to give you a traffic ticket but anything else you can whistle. | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 4/5/2007 5:45:37 AM |
correct. in america enough people care about their right to defend themselves that the 2nd gets some support.
Of course, that ability to defend themselves is actually count productive statistically. | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 4/5/2007 5:16:52 PM | "Of course, that ability to defend themselves is actually count productive statistically."---charlesedm
Firearms are used hundreds of thousands of times in self defense each year in the United States. Are you claiming that the legal ownership of firearms in this country causes even more people than that to be harmed by gun violence?
Hmmm....or maybe you are talking about a more world-oriented view. Then there is always the governments that 'protect' everyone. I'm willing to bet that the millions and millions of people murdered by their own governments over the past hundred years is far in excess of the number of people murdered by simple criminals in the same time frame. | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 4/6/2007 12:23:41 PM | FYI - Firearms legislation in the US varies from state to state. In some states open carry is permitted without any licensing, although firearms are sold through dealers who by law must establish someone's ownership eligibility through a background check. Other states prohibit or severely limit handgun ownership. Ironically (on a superficial level) the states in which personal carry and ownership is most limited experience the highest levels of gun-related crime: California, New York, Michigan, Washington D.C.
Looking at several places in the US you will see the gun-owning percentages might be identical but the crime levels vary greatly, say for instance, between an urban East Coast area and a rural midwestern area. Reported gun ownership is often equivalent or higher in the rural areas, but gun violence significantly lower. This would indicate that the presence of firearms is not the lone causal factor behind violence or crime. By a rather simplistic train of logic employed by anti-gun advocates, if guns completely banned, then gun violence would disappear 100% as well. I would think that the however infrequent appearance of gun crime in a society that has purportedly "banned" privately owned handguns is proof that such logic is simply irrational. Economics of the free market has shown repeatedly that where the gov't restricts an activity, a black market for that activity emerges. Even in a so-called "gun-free" British society that black market for firearms will creep up and threaten the stability and safety of everything. I have seen statistics that indicate both the murder rate and incidents of gun crime have risen since Dunblane and the resulting anti-gun backlash in GB. Unfortunatley the internet is full of garbage, convoluted statistics, so getting good information is difficult.
The proliferation of firearms in the US doesn't appear to have raised our murder rate significantly over Great Britain. US murder rate is roughly .043 per 1,000, GB .014 per 1,000. Gun violence in the US appears to be significantly higher due to the disproportionate population levels of the two countries. The US is a nation of 300 million, GB only 60 million. | |
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| How many Americans are shot to death every year?
Posted: 4/6/2007 12:58:06 PM |
Reported gun ownership is often equivalent or higher in the rural areas, but gun violence significantly lower.
exactly true. Im not a gun owner but all my friends are - in a semi rural area. Gun control isnt going to happen in US. why?
1. constitution (despite arguments over its scope)
2.purpose of owning a gun and what iti s used for is different in urban and rural areas. | |
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