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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 8/27/2008 12:54:11 PM |
Finally does anyone know of scripture that tells us why nudity is only something humans should be jailed or fined for? How about any scripture concerning nudity of any creature pro or con?
The fact that God Himself clothed Adam and Eve after their disobedience, should be enough of a precedence for us to follow...don't you think? | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 8/27/2008 1:15:18 PM |
The fact that God Himself clothed Adam and Eve after their disobedience, should be enough of a precedence for us to follow...don't you think?
I think I understand the point you're making, but they had already "covered their nakedness because they were ashamed" with leaves (trad: fig leaves), so God didn't clothe them before they had already clothed themselves -- yes, I know we can nitpick over the differences between leaves and animal skins, but I don't' think that's really what's relevant. It would seem that the story is explaining why people feel "ashamed" when they are "naked". Which raises the question of whether or not, if Jesus Christ has put away the "Law" and reintroduced us to the perfection prior to the Fall, should a Christian feel "ashamed" when "naked". Me, I think not. But that's me.  | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 8/28/2008 6:48:39 AM | "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to
lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in
his heart."
Matthew 5:28, KJV
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the
earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his
heart was only evil continually."
Genesis 6:5, KJV | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 8/30/2008 6:43:15 PM | | If the looking at a woman with lust quote is a reply to the question of whether any scripture specifically names nudity as a sin or bad, you're way of the mark. Lusting doesn't require nakedness. It only requires lustfulness. The "luster" is the source of the sin, and not the "lustee". | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/1/2008 10:41:42 AM | ^^^ Good call. I personally like to lust after girls who are clothed, it leaves more to the imagination.
Also, the Genesis quote has nothing to do with nudity either.
Through Genesis 3:10-12 we see that when Adam hid from God because he was naked, God was not concerned with nudity. He was concerned with how Adam knew that he was naked and with the shame that Adam felt at such knowledge.
God dose not give Adam clothing to cover up a sin that is represented by the body, (the only sin at this point is the original sin, ) but to help Adam to overcome his shame so that he can come back to Gods side and seek forgiveness. (God always forgives but forgivness is only granted when you forgive as well.)
And finally, even if you could take it to mean that Clothing is required to cover a sin of the body, then one you become a folower of christ you no longer need clothing anyway as al sins are forgiven, so any sin inherent in your body no longer counts. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/1/2008 1:02:59 PM | Nudity is nothing wrong. It's what we do with our naked bodies that produces either good or shameful.
You see women and men parading about acting like nimrods in the buff (Think the ho's on Jerry Springer) and you wonder how they escaped the oven in the first place. But you see a woman or man say coming out of the shower and so what. They're clean. OOOOOHHH!!!!!!!
Looking at someone lustfully who is not the one you are in love with is shameful. Not thinking "Now, there's a lovely woman..I'd love to have her boobs. They look so natural and perky" but "Wait till I get that one alone. I'll teach her who's da ma'yan!"
(all while your girlfriend or wife is standing there..or worse....Your Kids).
Does this make sense?
God gave us our bodies to use and enjoy. The way our immune system works and the way our heart just keeps beating when we're sleeping in bed. It's all part of the scheme of life. It's not to be defiled by treating it like a soul'less piece of meat. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/1/2008 9:56:57 PM | Clothes offer protection from the elements which is why we wear them.
In the cold winter yes I can see no problem but in the summer there is no need. We have intvented stuff like shoes and sunscreen that will help | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/2/2008 6:46:35 AM | Morally speaking, I think in itself the naked human body is neutral. The question changes though when nudity occurs in certain contexts. In some situations for example, a child being naked is perfectly innocent; playing in the backyard for example. In other situations though, if someone is forcing a child to be nude to film or photograph pornographic images of that child for themselves or other pedophiles, we have a very grave crime. Nudity brings moral implications as soon as it takes place in a certain relational context with other people.
I think it is hard to come up with hard and fast criteria to judge in black and white terms when being nude is innocent and when it is wrong and inappropriate. Our laws and social custom dictate our attitudes to nudity to a strong extent, as do philosophical, ethical and religious views. Even so, these can vary. A devout Muslim may find certain Western styles of dress allow for too much 'nudity', while a Westerner may find such styles of dress acceptable. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/2/2008 2:03:39 PM | From a 'moral' standpoint I don't care.
From a rational standpoint : Most people just don't look good naked.
If you let the good looking people run around naked you gotta let everyone. *shudder* | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/2/2008 6:20:47 PM |
What is Wrong with Nudity? Nothing. Babies go nude all the time, and their mothers never complain.
Why is it illegal and considered morally wrong to be seen as a human in his or her natural state in public? Why don't we extend this expectation to Lambs who have been recently shaved or those cats that have no hair. Shouldn't this make sense for humans and animals to? Why are we so different from animals when it comes to nakedness? Ask an 18-year-old blonde, with big tits. She'll tell you. When she is around gay men, and straight women, there is no problem at all. When she's around horny young men, who find it really hard to be around her when she's fully clothed without grabbing her a**, and far worse if she's naked, she has a big problem going around naked. Her not being allowed to go around naked is just a way of stopping her getting raped 60 times a day, and it's not fair to demand only one group of people are required to wear clothes. So we all have to.
Is it assumed that we humans have so much stronger of a sex drive that we would have no self control over our sex drive when we see someone naked or are some of us humans just too gross to withstand public decency? Both. If you ever find a society where rape never occurs, let me know. I'll be happy to join.
Finally does anyone know of scripture that tells us why nudity is only something humans should be jailed or fined for? How about any scripture concerning nudity of any creature pro or con? Going naked is written that it is also Ervah, which is Hebrew for stimulation of the sexual organ. Most men get turned on when they see a woman naked. If a guy finds sheep sexually attractive, and gets turned on when he sees a naked sheep, then naked sheep are an Ervah for him too, and he's not supposed to look at them either. It's all to stop rape. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:07:11 AM | . When she's around horny young men, who find it really hard to be around her when she's fully clothed without grabbing her a**, and far worse if she's naked, she has a big problem going around naked. Her not being allowed to go around naked is just a way of stopping her getting raped 60 times a day, and it's not fair to demand only one group of people are required to wear clothes. So we all have to.
Come on not every man is like this. Stop generalizing about men please. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:17:33 AM | Rape? You really do come up with some left field and off the wall stuff, but this is one of your best (or is it worst?). Humans developed the social and cultural norm of being clothed because of (a) rape and (b) treating everyone as equals? You need to take a poll and check your assumption that "horny young men" have this uncontrollable urge to rape naked 18-year old blondes. 60 times a day? May you live in fertile times.  | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:38:45 AM | If you check, you will find that tribal societies, particularly those with little to know clothing norms, have amongst the lowest incidences of rape of any society type world wide.
As for discrimintation, it applys to people who do not wear clothes just as much as it dose to people who do. Racists discrimnate on skin colour, not clothing, but in britain we have Goths who dress in black, and NEDs whos dress in white trackies and burbury. Each discrimnates against the others on nothing more than the basis of thier fasion likes and dislikes. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/4/2008 4:44:48 PM | RE msg 176 by Darknight1984:
Come on not every man is like this. Stop generalizing about men please. Not every man is like this. Most men won't have sex with a 5-year-old girl, or kill someone, or sell someone drugs, even if it is legal. Most people DON'T get problems with drugs. Only a few do. So why should they be legislated against? Because the some that do, cause a problem that seems to really be a big problem.
RE msg 176 by romanticoptimist:
Rape? You really do come up with some left field and off the wall stuff, but this is one of your best (or is it worst?). I say stuff that makes sense to me, not because it agrees with what everyone else thinks. Sometimes it is spot on, and occasionally it is wrong. I agree that this seems off the wall, but I cannot think of another reason.
Protection from stones? My father used to go barefoot as a child, and developed a callous so hard that glass wouldn't penetrate it. I've gone barefoot in the road. After a few hours, you get used to it. I've even met people who walked barefoot for 20 years without a problem.
Protection from the cold? When I was exercising every day, I would go out in a T-shirt in the winter and not think a thing about it, because I never felt cold.
Controlling people? How is wearing clothing going to make you do something?
Feeling ashamed? I felt ashamed of lots of things my whole life, including my own body. Yet I am completely content to go naked by myself, and to go naked in front of others, as long as I know they won't make fun of me for it.
I really have a lot of trouble finding ANY reason to wear clothes. Our skin is just too good at protecting us.
Humans developed the social and cultural norm of being clothed because of (a) rape and (b) treating everyone as equals? You need to take a poll and check your assumption that "horny young men" have this uncontrollable urge to rape naked 18-year old blondes. 60 times a day? I can tell you that I've spoken to lots of women, who like men, and most have told me that they have either been sexually assaulted, or have had guys attempt to sexually assault them and they managed to escape it, or would not allow themselves to be in a situation where a guy MIGHT sexaully assault them, including something as innocent as walking home alone from a nightclub. Should I think they are lying?
May you live in fertile times. I wish. From what I see of women going on IVF in the UK, it's almost an epidemic.
RE msg 178 by Bright1Raziel:
If you check, you will find that tribal societies, particularly those with little to know clothing norms, have amongst the lowest incidences of rape of any society type world wide. That is something I did not know. However, the little I know of those societies is very different from our own. It might just be that if we lived as they do, with their complete lack of so many of our insecurities and idiosyncrasies, that we would not need clothing either. However, I wonder if we were to establish a society of naked people, how long it would be before the insecurities and fears that are endemic in our society would bring us to act on them in unjust and unfair ways, just like the racial violence and hatred that happens in British multi-cultural society, despite their being no reason for it whatsoever.
I found this on the net. Not saying it is the last word, but it shows there is a little more to it than just clothing:
When anthropologist Peggy Reeves Sanday studied 156 tribal societies, dating from 1750 B.C. to the late 1960s, she found that rape was particularly common in maledominated, violence-prone societies in which women had little or no political power. http://www.enotes.com/teen-rape-article
I would definitely agree with the notion that if something is made forbidden, that it often becomes more desirable. However, my mother told me not to drink bleach either, and I never wanted to do that either. So I don't think it is clear cut.
As for discrimintation, it applys to people who do not wear clothes just as much as it dose to people who do. I just meant that it would not be fair to make women wear clothing and not men as well.
I agree that what I said is quite extreme, and I have no problem at all if I am wrong.
However, I do have a different attitude to many people. I will attempt to explain. I've known several people who were extremely abusive, and didn't think they did anything wrong. I've known several people who never thought they'd be abusive and ended up being extremely abusive. I can't recall a person who thought they COULD be abusive and thought it was wrong, and were very abusive.
I honestly think that most rapists do not believe they could rape people, and so justify it to themselves that it wasn't rape.
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe not. Only time will tell. So far, this philosophy has served me well.
But I am willing to be wrong. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/4/2008 11:23:23 PM |
Protection from the cold? When I was exercising every day, I would go out in a T-shirt in the winter and not think a thing about it, because I never felt cold.
I bet you never experienced a -40C "dry cold" winter day in sunny Winnipeg! | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/5/2008 10:58:48 AM |
It might just be that if we lived as they do, with their complete lack of so many of our insecurities and idiosyncrasies, that we would not need clothing either. However, I wonder if we were to establish a society of naked people, how long it would be before the insecurities and fears that are endemic in our society would bring us to act on them in unjust and unfair ways...
When anthropologist Peggy Reeves Sanday studied 156 tribal societies, dating from 1750 B.C. to the late 1960s, she found that rape was particularly common in maledominated, violence-prone societies in which women had little or no political power.
Sooo... if the above quotes are true, then if we dealt with our insecurities, and got away from male-dominated, violence-prone societal influences, we would not have a problem with nudity.... barring -40 weather in Winnipeg, of course. I think there is a lot of truth in this... and yes, even the Winnipeg weather - I grew up in that weather. If we become comfortable with our own bodies, and truly view ourselves as beautiful, in a non-vain way... then we would be comfortable going nude within our own homes, and maybe even get as adventureous as to go to a nudist camp... then we are more confident in other areas of our life also... and we become less susceptible to being dominated - by anyone... then, maybe we will be ready as a society for more widespread nudity. While I realize this is a "shangri-la" of sorts... is it not something that we could strive for, as a society?
Many previous posters have said that they do not believe they would look good nude... or that not everyone should go naked... but what I believe is that every body is beautiful. BUT... not everyone agrees with me, quite obviously. Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder - there are people who see skinny as beautiful... there are people who see BBW as beautiful... there are people who like beards... there are those who prefer their man to be clean-shaven... there are people whose "thing" is chests (male or female)... or legs... or butts... different things work for different people... so in someone's eyes, every single person is beautiful... the trick is finding YOUR someone. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/6/2008 4:57:11 PM |
I would definitely agree with the notion that if something is made forbidden, that it often becomes more desirable. However, my mother told me not to drink bleach either, and I never wanted to do that either. So I don't think it is clear cut.
Well, it may be a little more clear cut that you suggest. See, I would expect that drinking bleach is a lot less fun than sex. I can't be sure, though, since I've never drank bleach. I've had a lot of sex and I just don't see how it could possibly compare.
If you actually meant to compare rape and drinking bleach, I still think drinking bleach would be the less enticing of the two evils. I would imagine there would be less immediate personal harm done to the raper (in most cases) than the bleach drinker. Some people are able to rationalize the differences between forbidden things and the amount of personal consequences that will follow each of these actions. Some are not. They drink bleach instead of raping people ;-) | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/11/2008 10:56:54 PM | It's all to stop rape.
Scorpiomover, in Europe public nudity is not as big a deal. From everything I've heard the rape incidents over there are considerably less than here where public nudity is far less common and much less socially acceptable. Canada had a big thing not too long ago about women not being treated equally. Like here in the states, men don't have to cloth their chest. So they complained "why should women". The women's uproar caused toplessness to be legal for them as well. I have not heard about the men in Canada loosing self control any more than normal since the "unveiling". Sexy clothing or not a man who resorts to rape has serious problems.
It will take a lot more than requiring all the people he comes in visual contact with to keep their clothes in order to, hopefully, "fix" his problems. If a woman, for whatever reason, decided to remove some of here clothing and got raped, would you think the courts should hold her partially responsible for being raped? What if the rate of rapes goes up next summer with current clothing laws...Would you think we should make the covering up laws stronger? No tank tops, no low cut jeans or perhaps no skin showing at all? Wouldn't it just make more sense to severely discourage those who might rape by making them the only law breakers?
Ask an 18-year-old blonde, with big tits. She'll tell you. When she is around gay men, and straight women, there is no problem at all. When she's around horny young men, who find it really hard to be around her when she's fully clothed without grabbing her a**, and far worse if she's naked, she has a big problem going around naked. Her not being allowed to go around naked is just a way of stopping her getting raped 60 times a day, and it's not fair to demand only one group of people are required to wear clothes. So we all have to.
If we actually were to ask a woman who's been completely naked around men in a social environment, (like a nude park or beach and not a wet-t contest), we might be surprised what we might hear about how men just stand back in awe and try not to stare. I was one of those guys once and that's exactly what I did, at first. I got over it in just a few minutes. First, I did have to get past the sensation of beauty I had the privilege of being in the presents of. This same thing has happens in the presents of clothed or partially (legally) clothed women several times in the past. I'm always happy to just get a glimpse and from what I see of the other men around me, at the time, they behaved the same. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/12/2008 11:39:49 AM | Not every man is like this. Most men won't have sex with a 5-year-old girl, or kill someone, or sell someone drugs, even if it is legal. Most people DON'T get problems with drugs. Only a few do. So why should they be legislated against? Because the some that do, cause a problem that seems to really be a big problem.
So just because a few people are doing wrong we should not that. Should we get rid of alchohol because a few people abuse it? You need to think rationally. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/12/2008 12:22:18 PM | | Nothing is wrong with nudity.It's just another islamo/judeo/christian guilt trip.It also plays into the idea that women are no more thain play toys for the men that own them. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/14/2008 12:34:25 AM | The men that own them? From a (newly) Christian standpoint, wives "own" their husbands, as well as vice-versa... Instead of looking at ONLY Eph 5:22, as some do (Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord), try adding in the context of Eph 5:22-29. That also includes the part about each belonging to the other.
As far as the guilt part goes though... I don't think anything is wrong with nudity, in the right contexts... the problem lies with (many of) us, who have a sinful nature and may commit adultery in our hearts by lusting after another's wife, girlfriend, lady, etc. Having clothes on can help that aspect/side of (some of) us not be as prominent.
*shrugs* I enjoy seeing a pretty woman as much as the next guy, and do NOT always automatically lust after her. However, seeing a woman walking down the sidewalk naked, might cause traffic disruptions, lustful thoughts, unwelcomed (to her) attention. etc. Some women might not mind that, but I can see auto insurance rates might need to be adjusted... 
I wasn't meaning to start ranting, and I can certainly admire the nude human body... well, at least SOME bodies, since I don't find ALL women attractive! I am sure not ALL women find me attractive either, heh heh, and I am cool with that.  I haven't read the entire thread, yet... just saw it and felt like posting (half-cocked?)  So, take that for what it is... comments on guilt trips and women being play-toys have been known to set me off before... even as the unrepentant heathen I was for 15+ years... | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/14/2008 4:46:51 AM |
*shrugs* I enjoy seeing a pretty woman as much as the next guy, and do NOT always automatically lust after her. However, seeing a woman walking down the sidewalk naked, might cause traffic disruptions, lustful thoughts, unwelcomed (to her) attention. etc. Some women might not mind that, but I can see auto insurance rates might need to be adjusted...
If we wern't such prudes, this wouldn't be a problem. It would be a normal occurance. | |
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| What is Wrong with Nudity?
Posted: 9/14/2008 12:06:14 PM | shrugs* I enjoy seeing a pretty woman as much as the next guy, and do NOT always automatically lust after her. However, seeing a woman walking down the sidewalk naked, might cause traffic disruptions, lustful thoughts, unwelcomed (to her) attention. etc. Some women might not mind that, but I can see auto insurance rates might need to be adjusted...
Again stop generalizing false assumptions about men. | |
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