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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/15/2005 4:35:28 PM | | Explain to me *why* people want to see the autopsy picture, please? Can we not have some shred of respect for the last vestige of the woman's dignity?... | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/15/2005 4:40:13 PM | Explain to me *why* people want to see the autopsy picture, please?
http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/
http://www.rcfp.org/
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/rightsof/press.htm
Can we not have some shred of respect for the last vestige of the woman's dignity?...
Well, then don't look at them. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/15/2005 6:05:14 PM | the link to the photos posted weren't from shiavo's case and if you know they are autopsy pictures and you don't want to see them, don't go to the site. you have to click to "agree" to enter that site so it's not like anything popped up and smacked you in the face if you went to the link, you had a choice.
i think autopsy photos are extremely compelling, especially in controversial cases like the shiavo's. it just so happens they don't bother me and i don't find them a form of disrespect in cases like this, especially considering the photos were not of her private areas. death is a fact of life, most don't go out lookin' as good as they did when they were here and that's ok.
i just want to know if the autopsy for terry came in confirming the husband's reasons for pulling the feeding tube. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/15/2005 8:52:13 PM | | who I posted a link to the Times, this is a local story for me, I live here. It's an article but there's a link to the actual autopsy reports, it's a 39 page pdf file. The article explains the results and the fact that her brain was half it's normal size, severely atrophied and also that she may well have been blind. I posted the link on the page before this one. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/15/2005 11:05:40 PM | The most humane thing to have done is let her die, I hate to say it but its true. She was completely brain dead, couldn't- respond, eat, see, think, move, or anything else for that matter.
She had no chance of recovery, no chance of living ever again. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 3:39:23 AM | | I agree. And I think it's horrible the goverment got involved with something that was a personal matter. He husband has been villified and I think he's a great person. He fought for Terri and I'm glad he won the right to end her life. She was already dead and her parents never will accept that. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 5:22:07 AM | coati For me at least, same reason I watch CSI and Forensic files. Crime scene and forensic stuff interests me. When someone has died, they're just a body. Lots of people think forensics is fascinating, CSI is one of the top rated shows. I don't do it for the gross out aspect, it's information to me.
She died in Florida and was to be cremated, therefore by LAW she had to be autopsied. So if anyone violated her dignity, blame the state of Fla. and the info is either deemed public info or not. Or eww, how about her parents who broadcasted pictures of her while she was living, even showing off her tube feeding site....now that was dignified.
Someone viewing autopsy info is hardly degrading. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 6:16:03 AM | i have to agree with you bucsgirl. i think it would have been far more humiliating to be shown on television as terry was when she was alive, or should i say, still breathing than it would be to be shown in autopsy photos. the motives behind showing her when her parents did were a part of their ploy to keep her alive which was incredibly selfish on their part, to say the least. showing autopsy photos may actual teach someone something, especially if you read the report that goes with the photos.
i'll have to go find that link you posted bucsgirl... thanks ;) | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 6:21:28 AM | Terri was NOT a vegetable. She was a severely disabled woman. I have first handedly worked with people exactly like her. They are like infants. They need some extra love and care, which her parents were MORE THAN happy to give her.
Are we going to kill infants because they are not "self-aware" and cannot speak for themselves?
...Oh yeah, we already do that through abortion...
"brain was mush"..."globs of flesh"...
Hmmm strange how we carefully word things to justify our selfish, evil actions...
What makes me sick is that the radical feminists stayed strangely quiet during all of this...it is preposterous that a man should have this much power over his wife...and that they didn't speak up when the courts accepted his vague recollection that Terri "said something" ten years ago that she would not want to be kept alive by "artificial means"...I guess they aren't really for **all** women's rights, just ones who aren't disabled...
Don't people find it interesting that George Felos, Michael Schiavo's pro-euthanasia lawyer was INSTRUMENTAL in having Florida law changed to include feeding tubes as "artificial means" two years before Michael decided to remove Terri's tube? A tube that Terri didn't need and that Michael placed there himself?
Don't people find it interesting that Michael Schiavo STOPPED rehabilitative care after he received the settlement awarded for her care. Terri lived in substandard conditions ILLEGALLY in a hospice that was ILLEGALLY funded by medicare/medicaid to the tune of 14.8 million?
Don't people find it interesting that George Felos (the death lawyer) was on the BOARD OF DIRECTORS for the hospice that Terri lived in?
Don't people find it interesting that Judge Greer was not authorized to preside over the case? He was on the bench without having been on the ballot?
Don't people find it interesting that both Felos AND Schiavo contributed FINANCIALLY to Greer's trust fund and "re-election campaign"...
So much illegal activity occured throughout this whole ordeal that there should be an FBI investigation...but that is not likely to happen...after all, Terri was a burden on society...
Michael Schiavo has not been a model "husband".
He lived adulterously with Jodi Centozone, with whom he has had two children. In a monumental conflict of interest that should disqualify him from deciding Terri's fate, her death would facilitate his marriage to Jodi while Terri's existence only complicates their lives.
After winning control of Terri's treatment, plus medical malpractice and other legal awards totaling some $1.6 million, Michael had Terri's cats, Shanna and Tolly, put to sleep.
He told attorneys in November 1992 that he took Terri's engagement and wedding rings and "made a ring for myself."
Terri's family complains that Michael has denied Terri speech-, occupational- and other therapies **that could have strengthened her mind**.
According to the September 2003 deposition of Terri's nurse, Carla Iyer, Michael asked, "Can't you do anything to accelerate her death?" and "When is that b***h gonna die?" When Terri's health waned, Iyer said he would exclaim, "I'm going to be rich!" then discuss plans to buy a car, boat, and European vacation.
Terri's family cites a September 5, 1991 bone scan by Dr. W. Campbell Walker, M.D. It lists "compression fracture[s]" throughout Terri's body and concludes: "The patient has a history of trauma." They wonder if Terri suffered domestic violence.
Lack of incontrovertible, documented proof that Terri Schindler-Schiavo wanted to die, meant that she deserved the presumption of life. Terri refuted claims she was comatose by interacting with her surroundings. Her cat-killing, ring-melting husband had more pressing priorities than Terri's longevity.
Florida judges granted her husband's wishes — as they did before an urgently adopted, now-overturned, law reversed them — Governor Jeb Bush's attorney, Ken Connor, warned earlier that if this happened: "Michael Schiavo effectively gets to kill his wife through starvation and dehydration."
What occured with Terri was state-sanctioned murder of a severely disabled woman...it was a message loud and clear to disabled people everywhere--you are worthless...your life means nothing...you are BETTER OFF DEAD...
Who's next, the chronically ill like me? Will the state (or province) decide that my "quality of life" is not good enough anymore because I "suffer" from diabetes and have to stick myself with needles to live a relatively normal life?
What about my mentally ill brother? Will the state/province decide that his "quality of life" is not good enough because he suffers from severe depression and schizophrenic dillusions and is "condemned" to being on medication for the rest of his life?
NO human being has the right to take the life of another human being through ANY MEANS for ANY REASON be it through embryonic stem cell research, abortion, euthanasia, capitol punishment or war...
EVERY HUMAN LIFE IS SACRED FROM THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION UNTIL NATURAL DEATH!!
(the Baroness gets down from her soap box) | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 6:39:27 AM | whos here ya go
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/06/15/Tampabay/Schiavo_autopsy_shows.shtml
love the name!!!
The St. PEte Times has a whole Schiavo case archive. If you just log onto www.sptimes.com, it's listed on the left under special reports or web specials. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 6:44:49 AM | | barroness I agree about the sancitity of life, but that argument doesn't stand here, darlin, since her "natural" death was already suspended when the EMTs were called and she was revived. Can't have it both ways, her life was articially brought back, was it not by medical technology and when medical technoloogy was suspended, she died. That's the basic story, period, oh and the fact that there was a 15year interval in between. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 6:48:06 AM | baroness... maybe you ought to read the autopsy report. it's useless to go back in time regarding this case. what's done is done. i personally don't agree with you one bit but you're obviously entitled to your opinion. i especially don't agree with your comment about a man having that much power over a woman. it would have been the same scenario had the roles been reversed in this case... that's one of the benefits of marriage. would you have felt so compelled to make a comment like that if it were the husband that died because the wife made the descision? doubtful.
"The Terri Schiavo Case
Schiavo autopsy shows no sign of trauma, brain half normal size
By Staff and Wire Reports
Published June 15, 2005
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Read autopsy report (pdf file)
More coverage
Video from Tampa Bay's 10
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LARGO -- An autopsy released today found no evidence to contradict the diagnosis that Terri Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state after her 1990 collapse, backing up her husband's contention that she would not have recovered if she was given additional therapy as her parents requested.
"There's nothing in her autopsy report that is inconsistent with a persistent vegetative state,'' said Dr. Stephen J. Nelson, a medical examiner who assisted in the autopsy.
Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Dr. Jon Thogmartin, who led the autopsy team, concluded that there was no evidence of strangulation or other trauma leading to her collapse, rebutting allegations that her husband, Michael Schiavo, abused her.
Thogmartin also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack and there was no evidence that she was given harmful drugs or other substances prior to her death.
The doctor said that Terri Schiavo's brain was about half of its expected size when she died March 31 in a Pinellas Park hospice, 13 days after her feeding tube was removed in a wrenching right-to-die dispute that engulfed the courts, Congress and the White House and divided the country.
He said the 41-year-old woman would not have been able to eat or drink if she had been given food by mouth as her parents' wanted.
""Removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed or hydrated by mouth or not,'' Thogmartin told reporters.
Thogmartin also said that the autopsy, including 274 external and internal body images, and an exhaustive review of Terri Schiavo's past medical records, police reports and social services agency records produced no conclusion on what triggered the collapse that caused her severe brain damage, including whether she suffered from an eating disorder.
He said that Schiavo was blind and that ""no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of nerves.''
Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, fought their son-in-law in court over their daughter's fate for nearly seven years, battling to the end with conservative lawmakers and anti-abortion activists at their side.
Michael Schiavo said his wife never would have wanted to be kept alive in what court-appointed doctors concluded was a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery. The Schindlers, however, doubted she had any such end-of-life wishes and disputed that she was in a vegetative state.
They contended she laughed, cried and responded to them when they visited her in the hospice where she lived. They believed her condition could improve with therapy, despite most doctors saying her condition was irreversible.
Her death ended what was easily the longest, most bitter -- and most heavily litigated -- right-to-die dispute in U.S. history.
Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 after a chemical imbalance caused her heart to stop. She had left no written instructions in the event she became disabled.
During the seven-year legal battle, federal and state courts repeatedly rejected extraordinary attempts at intervention by Florida lawmakers, Gov. Jeb Bush, Congress and President Bush on behalf of her parents.
Supporters of her parents harshly criticized the courts. Many religious groups, including the Roman Catholic Church, said the removal of sustenance violated fundamental religious tenets.
About 40 judges in six courts were involved in the case at one point or another. Six times, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to intervene. But an initial court ruling by Pinellas County Judge George Greer in Michael Schindler?s favor was never overturned. As Schiavo's life ebbed away, Congress rushed through a bill to allow the federal courts to take up the case, and President Bush signed it March 21. But the federal courts refused to step in.
Over the years, the Schindlers have sought independent investigation of their daughter's condition and what caused it. Abuse complaints to state social workers were ruled unfounded and the Pinellas state attorney's office did not turn up evidence of abuse."
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 6:51:17 AM | I played "God Bless America" through my computer speakers when I read those last few posts.
And CSI is BS. Good forensics can sometimes take MONTHS to complete, and they hardly come up with the results you see on television. I know.. I've tried to solve the murder of my neighbor's cat a year ago and still have urine and fecal specimens in my dresser drawer. When asked on my progress, I simply say, "No, mama. The soich continues."
On Topic: I'm not interested in the photos (I'm not easily grossed out.. but who cares) but I would be curious as to the autopsy results. And, you are all my witnesses... If I ever suffer from a disease or car accident that leaves me in a vegetative state, or even extremely incapacitated... you tell those doctors, "Let him go." How selfish would it be of me to burden my family with having to see me like that day after day, while the medical bills piled up? How selfish of me to burden the taxpayers with my medical bills after my family couldn't afford it after a 2nd mortgage on their home? How selfish of me to have my children remember me in their formative years as laying in a hospital bed, moaning away with occasional gurgles and smiles for no apparent reason? How selfish of me to deny my family closure on the son, the brother, the father they loved and appreciated for all the wonderful moments he gave them?
And what about everyone who reads my posts? To force you from reading my witty prose to what would surely be my future posts if I were in that state... (below)
UNGH....fazzflogh ungnkaik fihweih WAAAH! ihfiaihe falafel
Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about. Pull my plug.
Ladies, if you would like to pull my plug... several times... CALL ME! | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 6:57:27 AM | | the autopsy report is in that link above agstang & i'd love to pull your plug... what's your number? ;) | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 7:00:55 AM | | she was ment to die. if she was in a vegitated state why shouldn't she die in pece? | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 9:21:39 AM | "Terri was NOT a vegetable."
I guess you didn;t read or listen to the autopsy report eh? She was in fact just that, a complete vegetable.
And to speack of natural death- she would have died long ago is not kept artificially alive. She had no chance to live life again, no brain activity, no chance to recover, why keep her in a state like that?
The best thing to do was let her die and let her have peace. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 9:35:56 AM |
she was ment to die. if she was in a vegitated state why shouldn't she die in pece?
If she "was meant to die", then why did it take THIRTEEN DAYS FOR HER TO STARVE TO DEATH?
I have a question for you, my little cousin went into convulsions and stopped breathing...he was two years old.
Do you think my aunt should have just left him there and let him "die naturally'? Or did she do the right thing and revive him? If so, what's the difference between him and Terri Schiavo?
Terri was NOT brain dead. Again, I don't care WHAT the autopsy says. I have personally worked with people JUST LIKE TERRI WAS. They need some extra care and love that is ALL. The Schindlers were MORE than willing to give that.
Michael Schaivo murdered his wife. The State of Florida sanctioned it. Period.
I have nothing more to say about this.
G-d rest the soul of Theresa Marie Schindler-Schiavo, martyred March 31, 2005.
Pax Christi,
the Baroness | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 10:18:26 AM | Dontcha love it when someone calls murder, on another site your post would be deleted for using that word, the removal of artifically sustaining a body, with NO respect for what that body is, what the capability of experiencing life is or is it a lifeless person with no awareness or voluntary function, just because parts of the body are still self sustaining.
There have been so many polls that the vast majority of a cross section, elderly, young, men women, MOST EVERYONE does not want to be kept alive like this, and I can't get anyone I know who is supportive of the Schindlers to say that they would want to be kept alive this way. They don't want it for themselves, HE!!! NO, but they want to force it on someone else. This side of the argument is not based on reason, fact and logic, it's purely emotional. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 10:23:33 AM | | I thought it was peculiar that these "reports" would mention the fact the her brain was only half of its normal size, I don't see how that could be relevent in trying to prove the extent of her past injuries. The human brain is composed of between 77 and 78 % water, and it would stand to reason , if a person is deprived of water for 13 days that their brain would shrink in size, and has no bearing on past injuries. If someone already mentioned this I apologize, I didn't go back and read all of the recent posts. That is just my opinion | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 11:28:56 AM | Terri was NOT brain dead. Again, I don't care WHAT the autopsy says. I have personally worked with people JUST LIKE TERRI WAS.
Thank you, Dr. Baroness. For a minute there, I was actually starting to believe the medical professionals who conducted the autopsy!
I have a mole on my forehead I'd like you to take a look at. My dermatologist tells me it's melanoma but BAH! What does he know?
On Topic: If I were a vegetable, what vegetable would I be? | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 12:37:57 PM | | micxter I'm not an expert or medical person by far, but I do know this much. Her brain atrophied, it was the cerebro spinal fluid that filled the brain cavity, I think that's what you're confusing with "water", humans are 90 some percent water, so of course all our organs have water, but it wasn't like her brain "shrunk" in the 13 days or whatever it was because of the dehydration. It may explain that in the article, but it was the CS fluid, certain parts or portions of her brain and brain stem were "dead" for all practical purposes. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 1:44:31 PM | | Terri didn't starve to death, she was dehydrated. And she was not disabled she was a vegatable. She was blind and had absolutly no idea what was going on around her. Her parents could not accept what the doctors said and for some reason they don't beleive the autopsy. Why would they think those doctors would lie about it. I have made sure everyone knows my wishes because if I ended up like Terri I would have been so pissed at my parents for fighting to keep my body alive. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 1:56:08 PM | | I think we all need to remember that all of us born in the last 100 have had our lives artificially, and medically lengthened. Many poeple rely on medications without which, they might die. Many people rely on medical equipment such as pacemakers, etc. If Terri was supposed to die, only becaue her life was being artificially prolonged, then we are in the same boat as her. The only difference being the state of cognitive ability, which NO ONE can accurately measure or gauge with certainty. Imagine someone becoming mentally ill, and their spouse saying "she wouldn't want to live like this, but she won't tell you that because she is crazy." | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 2:14:04 PM | There is a hugh differance in being mentally disabled and what Terri was.
Terri had no way to recover, EVER! She was unresponsive to everything, her brain was dead, what is the point of keeping a body alive while everything else is dead? And thats all she was, a body or shell. She in now in a better place, atleast until Judgement day.
But still remains that the medical expert gave us his findings and that was she was completely brain dead, blind, phyiscally unable to respond to anything. She died long before her body did and did not suffer.
God bless her and those who made the right choice to let her body pass on. | |
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| Terry Schiavo
Posted: 6/16/2005 2:22:19 PM | | she was uncapable of thought and sight. letting her die was the humane thing to do. artificial means of prolonging someones life is one thing, but if that person doesn't want it then let them die. this is so simple, i cannot understand how this thread has gotten so long. | |
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