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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 7:12:41 AM |
I get the impression that a lot of guys that use cut-n-paste, once they hear how women don't like it, will then argue with women why they SHOULD like it. Like I said, they bring forth some good arguments (some not so good, too, but whatever...) But, the whole point of the exercise is to win a woman's HEART, not an argument.
I had the same thing happen to me recently. The man sent me a previous e-mail with a message about checking his profile to see if I wanted to talk to him. It was more a generic kind of e-mail and maybe not the usual copy and paste, which tend to be longer. I didn't reply because there was nothing to reply to. Recently I received the same e-mail again from him. This time I chose to reply and give him some advice on what works to get my attention. What I got back was a defensive e-mail telling me why I should be ok with any kind of communication he chose to send and that it works for him. I again tried to explain in a different way, always tactful, that this does not work for me and that, but all I got back was an e-mail with an angry tone to it. If I am trying to communicate with someone about what works for me, I would expect him to at least listen and think about it. I was trying to let him know something about me and the communication style that works for me, but he chose not to listen. Next... | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 7:17:35 AM |
I agree. Women want to know that the man they're interested in has a mind, and vice-versa. But, there's a difference (huge, IMNHO), between "intellectual cross-stimulation", and "intellectual bullying and haranguing". TELLING someone how they should think, is not providing them with ANYTHING positive.
I am a woman who wants to know if a man has a mind, and I want him to want to know if I have one too. If I can't connect with someone on an intellectual level in addition to other levels, there will be something missing in the relationship. If a man tries to tell me how I should think or feel, that is a big turn off, especially when it is in response to me trying to let him inside my heart and mind and allow him to see what I am like. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 7:35:54 AM | I think that there are men who will use what they think works for them. If sending original first contact emails works very poor, but cut and paste one are even a little better, then some guys would (in their minds) logically go with c&p.
I always sent an original first contact that related to something in the woman's profile. For instance, and this is specifically to women who are local to me that I could more easily meet, I would see that she enjoys roller coasters so I would ask if she had ever been to Cedar Point in Ohio (major roller coaster park). This is what I considered to be a simple and sincere method of opening a dialog and connection and not "hey, you're hot, I love your picture, contact me", yada, yada. Never heard anything in any of the cases, but I see their profiles are still up on my local matches. These were women for whom I lined up with their preferences and I had a good profile (I received compliments about it from hundreds and thousands of miles away) and a good picture (also compliments from hundreds and thousands of miles away).
So if I were the type I might think that c&p were the way to go, but I am not. My hypocrisy does know bounds and I cannot do to someone else what I would not like done to myself. I can, though, understand how some men might resort to c&p because if it works better for them than being original who could argue them away from what they view as successful? Then again, they might simply be lazy. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 7:52:39 AM | so ... how is it working for these bulk emailers thus far ???
when a scripted email comes my way ... i delete it.
the fact of the matter is ... that it's bluntly obvious ... + it feels rather superficial.
i suggest ... to stay away from that form of communication + stick to short emails.
be personably ... don't forget to be yourself ;) | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 8:12:55 AM | Whereas I have sent many a short to medium personalised mails myself, as a matter of principle I have argued that a "Hi, how are you?" icebreaker to the RIGHT person (that is a person whose profile has some match with yours) does not constitute either copy/paste or "mass mailings" or "spam". Especially when one has taken a lot of time and thought to write a detailed and interesting profile.
If someone does not bother to check the profile of every person who has sent her/him a mail, any mail (except insulting ones) and needs to have the sender (let's say male) make specific references to her profile at the first mail (to prove something), then IMO the receiver weeds herself/himself out of the sender's consideration.
Men are not "hunters" anymore, thus a first expression of interest with a good profile attached, followed by a brief but clear expression of interest by the receiver, after checking the sender's profile ("Fine thank you, how are you?"), as in the old days, can/should be expected to lead to a second mail by the sender with a then personalised message. That is my ideology as an online dater and I stand by it, with exceptions of course (there are always exceptions but these have to do with sending first mails to women with profiles that are written in a inspired way (by the said women), but these are not that many, IME/IMO, OR fellow POFFers, who deserve of course "special personalised treatement" and whose interesting posts can easily invoke an inspiration for a personalised first mail!!!). That is my way (but there is also the (Information) highway!!!) as well the "option" of her sending a mail first (this is 2007, right??).
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 9:12:17 AM | lucidity6 wrote:
so ... how is it working for these bulk emailers thus far ???
Spammers don't have that great of a percentage of success either, but it works enough to continue doing it.
If a guy's success rate for writing a personal first contact email to women is no better, or only marginally better, than sending bulk c&ps then why should he take the time to do it that way? I wouldn't do it, but I understand why some would. If it never worked they probably would not do it, so it must work enough times to make them want to continue that way. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:16:45 PM |
To remain on topic, I will only mention that I do not agree with the syllogisms in the above post, but in order not to wander off topic, I will not expand on the whys.
Well, they say that variety is the spice of life...
Syllogism: IF variety is the spice of life, THEN Nick is, like, really mild chili peppers! 
!Les  | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:19:25 PM |
Whereas I have sent many a short to medium personalised mails myself, as a matter of principle I have argued that a "Hi, how are you?" icebreaker to the RIGHT person (that is a person whose profile has some match with yours) does not constitute either copy/paste or "mass mailings" or "spam". Especially when one has taken a lot of time and thought to write a detailed and interesting profile.
Just for the record, bud, I agree with you; just haven't had the opportunity to weigh in before this without a brutal and violent re-direction of the thread...
!Les | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 5:43:48 PM | Ya ok so the guy reads the first sentence in your profile; I have two kids and I like dogs, so he replies so I see you like dogs and have two kids!!!!! you can't say he didn't read your profile. And cut and paste does work, maybe not with the ladies that have replied here, but it does work.
Some don't have to say anything, just let them know you have checked out their profile... | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 6:04:49 PM | OK, so maybe I'll bump it up to that Star Trek fanfic story that I wrote for the fun of it a couple of years ago that's about 800 pages long if it's a really bad copy/paste.
Be good boys and either send a short Hi How are you, or be original!!! | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 6:09:02 PM | OK boss! I give up, I surrender. I submit to your and other female posters' wishes.
Wait a minute, the "hi how are you" was my idea!!! LOL LOL LOL
Cheers fellow posters, female and male. Let's not go to war over this. It is all about Love, Actually (see film). LOL
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 6:18:00 PM |
Whereas I have sent many a short to medium personalised mails myself, as a matter of principle I have argued that a "Hi, how are you?" icebreaker to the RIGHT person (that is a person whose profile has some match with yours) does not constitute either copy/paste or "mass mailings" or "spam". Especially when one has taken a lot of time and thought to write a detailed and interesting profile.
I agree that the " Hi, how are you?" e-mail is not copy and paste nor is it a generic e-mail. To me, that is what you might say if you met someone in person to begin a conversation. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 6:31:02 PM | Great. It seems that some of us have reached a sort of consensus. That is lovely. And rare! I so agree on the analogu with the IRL "hi how are you" approach. As I stated earlier, online, a good profile, instead of looks, is the first litmys test for the recipient to decide if she (or he) has an "initial interest" and reply "thanks, how are you"? As IRL, this creates the climate for the sender to invest in a personalised second mail, and ... they live happily ever after (until they break up or marry lol lol lol).
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 9:21:29 PM | First off have to say, can't beleave this threads still going :)
I am with nick on most this as for most his post i can remember heh. I have the same thinking with online dating here. When i posted a while ago I did not realize alot of you were talking about some big long C/P thing, thought we were talking about some short one. I only use short C/P's my self, only go with longer ones when the interest is returned.
Curently I am using this as a C/P " I thought i would say hello.. And see if you are interested in getting to know one another better? " It is short simple and to the point of my intentions, in a question. I can not seeing some one getting upset at that, If they do well, I probly dodged something I would not like anyway :)
PS i read every thing in some ones profile, but i do say though the what they wrote is usaly the last part i read. i look at Location, age, then if there looking for a date or relationship ( pass on others), then scroll to the bottom and look at restrictions, then move on to the pic's and right up. All but last 2 in that order.
I have run across some funny restrictions along the way, like one she was a smoker but wont take messages from a smoker, or another girl was 32 and im 32 but she wont take messages from any one thats not 20-30 lol. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/13/2007 9:24:26 PM | opps this part above came out wrong and i cant edit it :( only go with longer ones when the interest is returned. kinda reads like i go with longer C/P's :(
Witch is not the case i was getting at there. Just ment I will send longer messages when the interest is returned. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/15/2007 11:13:57 PM | Well first of all, Nick... if you message a woman with a generic line such as 'Hi, how are you?", what kind of reply do you think you're going to get from the woman? Yup...you guessed it... "Fine, how are you?"
For the record, that type of e-mail was NOT what I was referring to as "spam" previously. The messages I received, and funny enough, I received yet ANOTHER one of the same stinkin messages just yesterday... word for pitiful word from the same person... were not so generic as that. The user (in terms of this most recent e-mail) actually retired his original profile and has since taken up a new username! HA I mean really... this is the THIRD, exact same, word-for-word e-mail message that I have received from this user. It is a full paragraph detailing how he is from another European country, how old he is, what he does for a living, how long he's been in the states and a little about his family. Additionally, he attached a picture (he does not have one listed on his profile). This is hardly the one-line generic pick-up line you think it is.
I am not trying, in any way, shape or form to define the "rules" for the game and I might add how much that says about you to even refer to "it" as a "game" in the first place much less imply there are rules... totally laughable.
I am not giving a "pop-quiz" but when my profile is succinct in the first place, why, o' why do I have to answer a simple question... one that is very basic in nature that I have clearly listed in my profile? You certainly have nothing to prove... especially not in terms as... how did you put it... "that we are worth your attention/interest by PROVING that we have read your profile."
You make too many assumptions/statements, Nick and ask way too few questions. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/16/2007 4:23:14 AM | OK, OK! I thought we had reached some consensus in here.
Let me think! Ah yes!
Here is a more "thoughtful" version of the "Hi, how are you" icebreaking fist mail:
"Hi, how are you today?
I like your profile. Do you like mine?
If you do, let me know!
(screename)"
Please note the inclusion of the "today" in the "how are you" question. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/16/2007 12:07:36 PM |
"Hi, how are you today?
I like your profile. Do you like mine?
If you do, let me know!
(screename)"
And how exactly have you set yourself apart from all the other emails the women received? Granted, to date, I have had very few women respond back when I put in the effort to write a decent initial message that showed I read their profile only to have the same response (i.e. nothing). Thus it doesn't surprise me at all that men would copy/paste seeing that maybe 1% of emails will garner a response and out of those, maybe 1% will actually want to take the time to get to know you. So for men, as much as women say to the contrary, it sadly really ends up a numbers game. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/16/2007 12:44:46 PM | | Some people who don't like it call it "lazy" while those who use it describe it as "efficient." In reading (catching up since I've been away) the posts here, it appears that a typical individualized first email will get at best a slightly higher response than a cut and paste. I note that the women who say they delete what they "perceive" to be cut and pastes fail to note that they delete MOST emails regardless of their nature. Fact is most men and women do not see at first advertisement the partner of their dreams (They can't unless all they dream about is a picture, in which case all they need to do is copy the picture and put in on their computer). The fact remains that the internet is a mass marketing media. You (and I) place advertisements here in the hopes that the person who meets our wants/needs will see it or at least that we can find people to enhance our social life. Those who don't like, or are uncomfortable with, mass marketing won't appreciate the benefits of on line dating. There may be--I'm sure there are--people with whom I might be compatible who for any reason delete my first contact. But those people do not lessen the success/failure ratio. If you won't respond to me because I also approached 50 other women on this site, then I have to ask, why are you here? This is a place to "look for" and if woman thinks the first email need be individually crafted she will likely be disappointed. Men do what works and the protestations here to the contrary are not likely to change evidence from experience. If your getting adequate dating by turning men down, then you don't need this site. If your not, then you might want to reevaluate your first response practices. Presumably, if a man has sent you an email, he though it worthwhile. He wants success too, that is why he engages in practices that work for him. Reality is you aren't the "one and only" from first email. Relationships develop, they are not discovered. If what your doing works for you, then you have no reason to complain, other than all that deleting you have to do. But if its working for you, odds are your now only here for the forums. If men have tried both and find that for getting a date mass marketing works, they will continue to do that. If women delete all that they consider mass marketing, and are still finding POF and other sites useful, thats great. But the fact that you don't like mass marketing on a mass marketing site raises the question as to why your here (other than for the great forums). Men who mass market won't quit because you don't like it if it works anymore than advertising on TV will be eliminated because we don't like it. It still works. So I guess, I'll conclude my contributions to this debate by saying "enjoy the forums." | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/16/2007 12:55:25 PM | from post 244:
"And how exactly have you set yourself apart from all the other emails the women received? "
Exactly? By the PROFILE, the profile, that page we take some much time and energy to fill (some of us, some do a "rush" job): The about me section, the interests section, the headline, the photos, etc.
I would think it is obvious.
(It could be said that it is some profiles that are "cut/paste" or so generic as to who they are looking for that they could constitute "spam" or "mass")
PS. Nuff said. This is my last post in this thread, so no comments on future comments. Cheers to all! | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/16/2007 1:11:55 PM | OK... my initial post on this subject had nothing to do with an "icebreaking first mail" whatsoever. It is the fact that I have received repeated e-mails from the same person about every two weeks that are word for word identical. That is what I don't understand. I fell for it the first time and yes, we exchanged quite a few e-mails for a couple of weeks. What gets me is that within two weeks of our last correspondence, I got the exact same introductory e-mail that I did the very first time. I messaged him back and explained it was groundhog's day... then I received yet another of the exact same messages within another week or two, with not even a single word changed but this time he had a new username.
I think we can all admit that in initial e-mail to someone does not have to be wordy and is quite acceptable to be fairly generic... that is not something I have a problem with. The intention is to let someone know you are interested and basically inviting them to check out your profile... why invest a lot of time in an initial message when there may not be a return on your investment (time). | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/16/2007 1:21:41 PM |
Exactly? By the PROFILE, the profile, that page we take some much time and energy to fill (some of us, some do a "rush" job): The about me section, the interests section, the headline, the photos, etc.
I would think it is obvious.
You would think it would be that obvious... but you have to catch enough of her interest to have her even read your profile. Perhaps some women will read the profile of every guy that messages them, but chances are they don't and will only read it if your initial message catches their attention. Saying "hello how are you" doesn't do that. Most likely its the 100th message in 2 days that she has read that has said those exact same words. You simply can't approach online dating like its the real world. It won't work. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/16/2007 2:55:08 PM | I don't cut and paste. Sure, it's more efficient, but the pool of good prospects isn't that large.
Getting to the end quicker isn't all that helpful and seems senseless if it reduces the chance of success. | |
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