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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/9/2007 1:55:13 PM | Well I can see both points. Yes there are more men than women online here, and sifting out / targeting your relevant "catches" is only half the battle, so I can see it saves men time to mass-mail a 'general interest cyber chat-line.' BUT obviously it depends what you're looking for, and for a lot of people (women being naturally more discerning), this needs to feel slightly unique, so we're generally turned off by this.
Ah the law of the jungle. Good luck out there everyone!! x | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/9/2007 2:20:58 PM | Re post 172:
"I said it before and i'll say it again. Cut and pastes are often obvious, and don't go over well with women. If you don't mind getting them all deleted and basically finding almost no-one, keep right on cutting and pasting."
Is this addressed to the OP, to me or in general.
As far as it could addressed to me, the assumptions/convictions expressed do not apply. With all due respect, of course!
"Men who don't want to read profiles"
I read the profiles!
"and/or send out personal e-mails to women they have specific interest in"
The emails are a different story!
Some of us are not in the "hunting" and "bedpost hits" business!
Thus we are not going to write award winning mails unless first there is a sign of interest, we like to tango, not headhunt!
"Hi, how are you" is in many cases a most suitable "icebreaker" (along with the attached carefully/thoughtfully written profile).
"aren't desirable men by most women"
Who knows what "most woman" desire? Maybe only the god Eros. lol
"If you feel that all women are the same, and it doesn't make any difference to put an effort in"
Of course all women are NOT the same, on the contrary, each is unique.
"you're exactly the ones we want to avoid"
Who is this "we"?
"Makes it easier to spot you all and move on".
It's a free country!
Move on is not precise, because it is the man who has made the move, and gets no reply, so that does not constitute moving on for the women, but for the guy who sent the mail. To be precise! Words are like leaves .....
Peace!
PS. Women are (not supposed to be) interested in History and Politics? Right! Well, we men are not interested in Psychology! Left! | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/9/2007 3:46:20 PM | in the past i have not responded to the "very few" cut and paste letters i received because i figured they were just responding to a picture and not to what i had to say. most of my friends are from the forums, so usually the connection has already been put into place. but i admit, since i have a lot to say and know full well that a number will drift away upon reading, i suppose i did not want the rejection of responding to someone who might later take the time to read up on me and then discontinue the correspondence! i did not think that many men got rejected or ignored this much on pof. most of my e-buddies get mail, just have not met the right person or have been discriminated against due to financial position. but then again, they are not the cut and paste guys and relatively selective.
op, i wonder if it's because you just click on a lot of pictures and are not looking for the substance of a person or really evaluating if you indeed share perspectives or values--as evidenced by reading the profiles? i guess it depends on your reasons for being here. well, at any rate, in the future i won't ignore "all" cut and paste letters if it's the rejection that is feared as you describe. that is, "providing" the profile interests me or if you seem like a likely neighborhood "buddy". being relatively new to my area, i am looking for platonic friends as well.
it's kind of like going to a dance when we were younger. the girls felt sad that the one they had a crush on, never called and the boys felt rejected when they walked across that floor to ask their choice to dance and she said no. ah, the agony of the memories of the teenage years. do we have to repeat them all over again?  | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/9/2007 4:21:36 PM | I will more likely than not repsond to private messages of interest rather than spam... I have no time nor desire to waste on spam....
And so, on line dating is not for you. Reality is that ANYONE who has success in on line dating has to treat it as a numbers game. It IS NOT a primary source for finding a date. It DOES NOT MATTER whether we write a personal letter or a generic letter and those of us who have been at this a while know it. We've done both and the response rate doesn't differ. The first letter is a continued form of advertising and advertising is largely spam.
Now, that does not mean that we "mass email", but it does mean that until a connection is made, we don't "invest." The rate of return is too low. We send emails out to those whose profile appears compatible. Primarily that email serves to ensure that they know I exist. But since profiles are advertising frequently the women behind them don't match the profile. Only they know whether or not I am worthy of their response in their scheme of things. So again, until the meeting occurs and one makes it into the real world through email or actual meets, it is and must remain a numbers game.
To a great extent the same is true in personal greeting. You express interest in general ways until you get a dialog. If there's no dialog you move on. I get about a 5% response rate and only about 5% of those lead to a meet and greet. While I respond to all my email (I don't get hundreds of letters a day so I can afford to) the number of women who write to me that I consider potential matches is also relatively small.
If we did not look at it as a numbers game our egos would be so devestated we would quickly leave any online dating site. Thats the reality. The first email is to begin dialog not to negotiate marriage. We don't know, because most women don't tell us (and of course some men don't read even when the women do tell us) whether they are here to get their egos massaged, to look for a social life, or looking for "the one." Even when they put down one of the above, rarely does it correspond with their perceived actions. (Numbers again) If online dating has any purpose it is in the number of potential options. But those that think we match them are fewer than those that we think match us. Ego survives through beating the odds, not sitting around waiting for one rejection letter. After all, we want to date and enjoy ourselves, not sit at home feeling sorry because we got "rejected again." | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/9/2007 4:28:36 PM | From 179:
" first email is to begin dialog not to negotiate marriage."
LOL, so well said!
"We don't know, because most women don't tell us (and of course some men don't read even when the women do tell us) whether they are here to get their egos massaged, to look for a social life, or looking for "the one." Even when they put down one of the above, rarely does it correspond with their perceived actions."
I love logic. What a rarety! | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/9/2007 5:24:11 PM | Another good point is that romance shouldn't involve a complex contemplation of percentages and strategies - that's the kind of thing you'd expect from a hockey analyst, not from someone looking to find a date.
You forget, its "looking" not the existance of romance until there is a match and a meeting. We WANT romance [at least some of us] and do what is necessary to increase the odds. Online dating sites do not create connections. They do not, unless you believe in love at first picture, create love. They only provide opportunity. In the real world, you might assess people you meet, people walking down the street, etc. etc., but you don't say hello, "I am considering you for romance," to everyone and to the once to whom you do say the equivalent, most of the time your rejected. That is all fair and good. But we are looking for acceptance and the creation of dialog that can lead to romance. Until that opportunity arrives, it can only be numbers. The first email is not romance, it's I exist, take a look and see if there might be a connection. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/9/2007 5:29:18 PM | I've never copied or pasted a generic message to other woman but my first sentence or 2 is pretty much thesame for all messages. I completely understand why someone would send out the same message over and over especially if they are new here and they actually believe that they will get a response from ANY message that they send.
For every woman on here I bet there is atleast 10 men so to get any response at all is a miracle. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/9/2007 5:51:21 PM |
And then some people claim to read profiles or demand to have their profiles read! Right!
Yes, and the problem with that is .... ??
I DO read profiles (how else am I supposed to get an inkling of the guy who wrote me?), and I DO expect guys to read MY profile if they have an intention to write to me.
If they don't read it, why should I think they would like who I am? .. at that stage they're just writing to their idealization of me based on a picture.
I know the difference: those who haven't regarded it will say pat stuff like "you're a beautiful woman, I love your smile, let's get together and see if the chemistry will blossom" .. blah blah blah ~ and yes, someone did send that kind of drivel to me. EW. Maybe if he'd seen what I actually am LIKE, he could have spared himself some time.
I don't know what makes them think they've given me anything worth getting to know THEM when obviously they did not take the time to see that I don't date people I don't know for a while as friends first. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/9/2007 7:58:35 PM | I feel that is such a complete and utter cop-out. I am referring to the original post stating there are so many more women than men so mass messaging is necessary in hopes of getting a few replies.
About a month ago I received a very nice e-mail that I responded back to. We went back and forth a bit, but that was pretty much it... he lived on the east coast and was interesting to chat with.
Three days ago, I received another e-mail from the same man. The words sounded awfully familiar to me so I went back and checked my history... sure enough, it was the exact same, word for word cookie-cutter e-mail. Fell for it once, shame on me. I responded to him and while I was far from rude, my e-mail was firmly worded. I explained to him what an absolute turn-off it is to know that I was part of his spam. I further stated that he needs to be a little more cognizant of who he messages with his "template" so as to avoid further embarrasment. Perhaps he should keep a log? HA
I truly found that sort of behavior tacky and sure says a lot about the man. If he feels he needs to send e-mails out en mass in hopes of getting some poor sap like me to respond, my opinion is that needs to stop and work on his self esteem a little... figure out what he really wants and is looking for and focus his efforts on those women. There's certainly something to be said for persistence, and a lot of the time it does pays off, but when you are concentrating your efforts on quantity instead of quality, oftentimes what you are left with is quite undesirable.
This brings me to another point that goes hand-in-hand with the mass mailing. Do men truly not understand what an immediate turn-off it is for women when you ask questions that are clearly listed in our profiles? While I realize some profiles are quite wordy and it is easy to forget details, others are succinct so why would a man not take 120 seconds to read it? THAT is one I truly don't understand. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 12:12:02 AM | "Do men truly not understand what an immediate turn-off it is for women when you ask questions that are clearly listed in our profiles?"
a) Of course some of us do. But do WOMEN not understand or do as they say? Many a time, even in subsequent to a first contact mail, I get asked questions the answers to which I have clearly stated in my profile. And by "serious" women.
It takes two to tango! The previous male poster I think explained things brilliantly and fairly.
b) "Hi, how are you?" is not a question the answer to which exists in one's profile, unless she has turned it into a daily blog!!!
PS. "SPAM" is mass mailings. A "cut and paste" "Hi, how are you" mail sent selectively to women a man is interested in after reading profiles, does not SPAM constitute. The way a woman conducts a syllogism based exchange of views is IMO a major selection criterion. And many serious women, alas, fail that criterion some of us men have in selection.
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 1:24:41 AM | | If you are truly interested in a woman take the time to create an original e-mail!!! GUESS WHAT...it does not need to be lengthty !!! Please read our profile (haha)....if we are not interested in smokers; do not try to change our mind!!! I have never received 20 or 200+ e-mails in one day.....who came up with this fallacy???? Don't assume automatic rejection due to "numbers". Most of us are looking for a monogomous relationship. We want a nice guy nice guy that will treat us right and we will kick the players to the curb. Time to ZZZZZZ! | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 3:06:37 AM | "If you are truly interested in a woman take the time to create an original e-mail!!!"
a) Why? What is the implicit reasoning and premises behind this reasoning?
Is it an online adaptation of "you have to come up with an original pick up line dude" practice in bars? What is wrong with a "hi how are you" icebreaker (since online a woman can always refer to the sender's profile to see "who" he is, to determine if she is interested (as another male poster eloquently explaineda few posts above)?
b) Let me reverse the thinking!
It is women who assume that a "hi, how are you" intro mail is part of a "spam/numbers game campaign".
That is not true, it is a faulty assumption, other than the cases when the intro mail OR THE decision to contact, in itself, "conflicts" with data provided in the recipient's profile (eg a smoker writing to a person who says "no smokers").
Other than these cases, there is absolutely no RATIONAL reason for a woman to assume that a mail THAT does not make SPECIFIC references to her profile's data is "spam" or that the sender has not read her profile (that applies to male who receive mails from females as well, of course).
c) It is, again, an attempt of some women to define "rules" for the game, and define them is a way that sort of suits them or the "you ask, you make your case and I decide whether I want to take it up" mentality. Well, it may work with shopping groceries or car adverts, but it does not want in the dating game. Nobody is "selling" and nobody is "buying".
d) Implicit "shopping" mentality/reasoning exposed? Do we have to prove that we are worth your attention/interest by PROVING that we have read your profile? We are not pupils! Think again, those who think that way. We are neither hunters nor fools.
Peace! | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 5:02:29 AM | Hi Nick, no my earlier post was not directed to you lol...I enjoy reading your post's ....
Msg 186, Yes some people do get that many messages and;
If I am truly interested in you I will send you a message stating "if you are interested let me know," the ball is now in your court, do I care if you reply back because of my message, "being so short or seemingly not interesting or no face value to the fact that "I had read your profile or not," no. Why should someone have to reply to something you have written in your profile....I do not see a need to reply in this manner. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 7:00:17 AM | If you are truly interested in a woman take the time to create an original e-mail!!! GUESS WHAT...it does not need to be lengthty !!! Please read our profile (haha)....if we are not interested in smokers; do not try to change our mind!!! I have never received 20 or 200+ e-mails in one day.....who came up with this fallacy???? Don't assume automatic rejection due to "numbers". Most of us are looking for a monogomous relationship.
1. We DON'T KNOW if we're truly interested--exceptions being made for those who are just looking to get laid--all we know is that you have an interesting profile (for those of us who do read the profiles before emailing.) Indeed, read ten profiles and often times the wording is almost the same. It may suprise you to know that most unique profiles add "only here for the forums."
2. While I am sure there are exceptions, there are those for everything, most men do not send emails out to people they think they are incompatible with. Occasionally you miss a deal breaker issue. I once emailed a woman who said she didn't smoke, but had a picture with a cigarette in her hand.
3. Most of us would like a monogamous relationship, but don't expect it on the first email. This is called dating. Dating is a process of looking for someone with whom you feel comfortable having a monogamous relationship with. An analogy is looking for cars. I don't expect to buy every car I read about that I like in a newspaper advertisement. I go to the seller and begin by talking about the car. Here we are both sellers and so we talk about ourselves. On the initial contact, I want you to know enough about me to know whether or not you have any interest. So my initial information tells you things I would not--could not--put in my profile. I'm introducing myself to you. I don't change, so most of that will be the same no matter who I write to.
You then either respond or don't respond. In my case about 5% respond or somewhere between 1/16 and 1/20. Now the initial contact is probably because there is an activity coming up for which I would like to have a companion. To guarantee a companion using only POF at those rates where 1/20 of the people I contact respond and only 1/20 of those turn out to be compatible, I would have to send out 400 emails. As you can see, dating sites ARE NOT the only source for dating. I haven't seen 400 women on any site that provided enough of the "crucial" information that I would buy their advertisement site unseen. Others may be less discriminating.
4) It sounds to me like to many people have too high expectations. The first email is only an indication that your advertisement was sufficiently good to get a response. It says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about an interest in you beyond YOUR ADVERTISEMENT. If you think your advertisement uniquely identifies you, then those of you who complain about men mis repesenting themselves should re-evaluate. By the standards you are setting for men to be monogamously interested in you based on your advertisement, you should not bother to meet them, just sign the marriage contract, then go out for that beer together. The first meeting is a meeting to SEE IF THERE IS A CORRESPONDENCE between the advertisement and the person. No rational person is going to invest interest when the odds that the match is a dud are so high. In college, I might have phoned 5-10 women before getting a date and that was when we went to classes together and ate in the same cafeteria. There was a real world connection to back up interest. Here, all an email from a man to you indicates was that your profile (or picture in some cases) was sufficiently good to generate a response. Interest comes ONLY after what we sensed in that advertisement is confirmed in a meeting. This is a place where you advertise. And interest in your advertisement in no way guarantees interest in you. You should know that. So many of you confirm regularly that what you thought you were going out with wasn't what showed up. Its no different for us other than that we have to initiate contact according to the traditional rules of the game. Most people do not match other people's perceptions of their self promotion. We're looking to date with reasonable possibilities. This is not a site where a matchmaker does the background checks and psychoanalyses compatability. It's only a site where you advertise yourself. If you add matches most of the things I'm looking for then I make contact. Finding 400 contactable dvertisements for a date in two weeks is pretty full time. Odds are that I'll end up taking the woman who lives around the corner whose a good buddy but not a romantic interest. But hope springs eternal. If you really wanted a detailed personal first email, your profile would be detailed and unique. That would include maybe five that I've seen on this site. Most, even down to the words used, are indiscriminately the same. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 2:42:54 PM | copy/paste=SPAM. "nuff said
Why bother? Gimme a break!!! I will tell a guy off for writing a copy/paste because it reflects VERY poorly on him. It tells me that he's lazy, and will not bother taking the time to look over the profile and write a relevant short note. It tells me that he is lacking in creativity, and as an artist I find that a huge turnoff. It also shows me that the guy isn't terribly intelligent and cannot think through writing a short note that shows genuine interest. Sometimes it's quite evident that he did not read my profile--too far away, smoker, Republican, obese (all dealbreakers for me). Spammers mass email, and so do copy/pasters. They are one and the same.
I find it very unattractive if a guy does this, and will reply to such a message by telling him that the copy/paste has given me a very negative impression of him. It's better to write a nice note that shows personal interest, and make a good impression in the first place. Guys, first impressions may be the ONLY chance for you to impress a woman. Copy/paste is a very poor first impression!!
CAN the SPAM!!! | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 2:49:36 PM | OP: I don't and NEVER Would "copy/paste"
Where's the sincerity
and honesty in that? SHEESH!!!
Some men, Just have no Character!! | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 3:28:45 PM | Basically you receive here according to what you give here.
Superficial bait = superficial results.
What galls me are the guys who complain that it should be okay to cut-paste, but sorry ~ the fact is that it does NOT make a good impression.
What this stubbornness tells me about a man is that he won't be willing to bend on more important issues, if he won't even consider modifying the style of his initial approach.
That sort I can quite do nicely without.
Bottom line: read the profile or don't bother me. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 3:33:25 PM | I personally dont know but I find it very annoying!! I had the same guy send me the same message twice a couple weeks apart. The initial message was boring and he thought it was so good, hed send it again yet..  | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 3:38:55 PM | You know, when I first started on this site I admit I copy and pasted a few times. Now albeit I would tweak the note a little here and there but it was basically a generic note. The idea being I was tired of spending 15 minutes at a time writing a nice note to someone who would:
a) never read it
b) read and delete it without a reply
c) write me back a short response " awwww you sound really sweet" etc and leave it at that
We men should never try being smarter than the system, it honestly ends up making us look bad and pisses off the opposite sex. I have since fixed my ways and instead just go with writing people I honestly think will write back. The success rate is still around 1 in 10  | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 3:44:37 PM | | Some people (women) seem very interesting but their profile is so chaotic that it is rendered almost unreadable! Why not give them a chance to redeem themselves via an icebreaking mail? Not doing so, now that would be a sign of inflexibility! lol | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 3:59:39 PM | I agree with Bill. The number's game forces us to sometimes copy and paste. If a woman's profile is truly unique, I will write a unique message.
But if her profile is the same generic - dare I say 'copy-and-paste' - profile that says the same old thing about all the qualities that a woman wants and very little about who that woman is, then such a profile demands a copy-and-paste message.
Men should always be allowed to play the numbers game from which women have always benefited.
A 'copy-paste' message means "You profile is generic and says nothing about your uniqueness, but I'll give you a chance anyway".
It's only fair. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 4:05:06 PM |
A 'copy-paste' message means "You profile is generic and says nothing about your uniqueness, but I'll give you a chance anyway".
I don't need anybody to 'give me a chance' by sending a copy-paste, but thanks anyway.
Read my profile and say something about at least one shared pastime, or the most you'll get is 'thanks but I'm not interested'.
With all due respect, this statement of yours implies that a woman should feel grateful you decided to send her anything. | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 4:39:19 PM | That's why copy/pasters' attitudes are insulting to women. We don't feel "grateful" for your "crumbs". Basically copy/pasting is like giving someone crumbs instead of a nice loaf of bread. I'm getting hungry!! | |
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 5:00:37 PM | "That's why copy/pasters' attitudes are insulting to women. We don't feel "grateful" for your "crumbs". Basically copy/pasting is like giving someone crumbs instead of a nice loaf of bread. I'm getting hungry!!"
Supply and Demand. Needs vs Wants. The art of markering!
Those who are "hungry", since they are "hungry" should IMO then step out in the "marketplace" and make their own moves, fish for their fish, rather than sit in their "shops" and wait for the other side to come to them with "loafs". This is 2007.
Otherwise they must settle for .... "crumbs". The laws of the markets. They are not insulting anyone. They are impersonal. Only those who do not understand them can feel insulted by laws. Like one saying he/she is insulted by Newton's Law!!!! lol
Peace!
PS. Or should one copy/paste "Economics 101", "Marketing 101" and "Dating in 2007" in here? Of course NOT!
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| Why do men copy/paste
Posted: 10/10/2007 6:06:14 PM |
With all due respect, this statement of yours implies that a woman should feel grateful you decided to send her anything.
With all due respect, my statement reflects the general tone of so many profiles out there. I used that tone on purpose. Go ahead, read the profiles out there. Women just don't have the time to bother with all the messages. And the tone they use is often rude as they list all of the endless characteristics that will get a guy "maybe a chance or a reply".
So please don't get offended. | |
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