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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?      Home login  
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 emotionalheat
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 126
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?Page 6 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
It's always refreshing to see the kind of drive and the optimism of people like LeanLife. When I see such optimism, it is the cynicism in me that wonders, can we indeed have a generation, with this kind of fortitude for change? Indeed those would be the ideal generation to forge a path into the future. However, they must have the ability, also, to lead, and the strength of understanding so that others are not left behind. This understanding is the difference between those who are opportunists and those who will be a leading and guiding force into our future.

My own optimistic view would see an idealistic world society. I would certainly be a dreamer if I did not see such a future coming about without turmoil, drama and grief. However, I do not want it forced upon us by those whose opportunistic ways are self serving. I do not want those whose power is dictated by their greed to become the leader into such a future. I do not want a world economy run by an elite few.

I am grounded in the belief that the basic rights of humans are most aptly communicated through the American Declaration of Independence and it's Bill of Rights. Though it may be in need of some minor updates it is the best way to protect human freedoms.

The issues I bring up in these discussions are issues that relate to the degradation of the democratic society that the USA was founded on. The most basic being a government by the people and for the people. This government has been corrupted and in it's corruption it has lied to and used the people for self aggrandizement.

As a people we must fight against such power, or surely this is the power that will one govern the world.

The opportunity here, in these forums, in our day networking, should be to claim back our voice to run a government by the people, for the people - so that one day that ideal of being a world society will include such doctrine.

That is the difference between opportunity and the opportunistic ideal.
 leanlife
Joined: 5/15/2007
Msg: 127
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/27/2007 10:03:06 PM
Emotional, a great post to tell the truth as it is what it should be. However, there are reasons why it will never be, at least for a long long time.

emotionalheat
I do not want it forced upon us by those whose opportunistic ways are self serving. I do not want those whose power is dictated by their greed to become the leader into such a future.


Everything is self serving though. Artists make works of art that consumes their soul and then are destroyed when the public (who should never be shown the work if it were a personal thing) disapprove. A cook who makes a brilliant concoction then feeds it to an unappreciative diner is remorseful. They and we, all do it for personal reasons to gain something from it even if we say otherwise. Therefore, to believe that a society that is based on the common good while ignoring the the individual's goals will never work unless, you wish to force people to wake up to work in a salt mine using gunpoint.

emotionalheat
I do not want a world economy run by an elite few.


The rest of us are too busy making our lives work to be able to run it. That's the first problem. Second is all the other ones so, they naturally win by default.

emotionalheat
The issues I bring up in these discussions are issues that relate to the degradation of the democratic society that the USA was founded on.


Actually, the way it has morphed is far more democratic than it ever was. I mean, anybody can make money, invent something and sell it, produce art that people will buy and then become fabulously wealthy. Then spend that money and, as we know, people will accept it for anything available. Here, it matters not if your white, black, retarded, intelligent, socialist or democratic, money equalizes all and all are able to get it.

I prefer like most, to have it so that only people who are dedicated can attain power but, the reality is only those who have money can. However, as I showed in the above para, money is democratic as all can get it so, a cunnundrum of sorts. Not one we like, but, one we have to deal with.

emotionalheat
This government has been corrupted and in it's corruption it has lied to and used the people for self aggrandizement.


They all do though in some way shape or form. Surely you're not suggesting that this on is the only government that is underhanded throughout history in America much less the world?

emotionalheat
As a people we must fight against such power, or surely this is the power that will one govern the world.


Emotional, I, like you, am an optimist however, am also a realist and know that our governments are pretty good when stacked up against the rest of what the world has to offer. Governments make compromises and, in the process, people get hurt so the majority can produce revenue to propagate the process . It's a shame and terrible but, it will happen here and, it will happen when and if a larger government evolves as well. I suppose it comes down to picking the lesser of many evils.

emotionalheat
The opportunity here, in these forums, in our day networking, should be to claim back our voice to run a government by the people, for the people - so that one day that ideal of being a world society will include such doctrine.


I agree totally. The internet has a lot of exposed scallywags running for cover.

emotionalheat
That is the difference between opportunity and the opportunistic ideal.


Clarify please.
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 128
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/28/2007 12:29:38 AM
Here is an article that dicusses the so called NAFTA superhighway, and efforts to stop it in congress.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Wood/patrick24.htm
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 129
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/30/2007 1:03:03 AM
Cheney speaks out on NAU, NAFTA superhighway. Damage control, truth, playing word games? You decide.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56912
 cubanguy
Joined: 9/14/2006
Msg: 130
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/30/2007 5:55:36 AM
@redwood
I still don't know to choose the right word to define the oficial position from the federal government regarding the construction of the so called NAFTA Superhighway.
It can be sarcastic, ironic, cinic, hypocrite or just semantics.
According to the SSP web site there is no involvement from the government in such plans but accept the existence of such initiative from private companies as stated in my previous msg 51.
Of course, under regulations and supervision from the Department of Transportation and the States goverments.
It's beeen said too that money won't be from taxpayers but, at the end we will pay for the toll road.
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 131
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/1/2007 3:33:45 AM
Another article which gives more info on NAFTA and the future NAU

http://www.newswithviews.com/Veon/joan45.htm

 Jameslazazzera
Joined: 9/21/2006
Msg: 132
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/1/2007 4:04:55 AM
^^ O fall the countries mentioned in that article, none of then are Pagans. That said I as a Canadian, and a member of the commonwealth am just as against the Idea of a NAU as you americans. I DO NOT want ot be a part of any union that would see Canada adopting ANY american traits..I love my state run health care system, I love my Freedoms to ask the questions, I love the fact that we Canadians are well respected arouund the Globe and I do not want to be associated with either Bush or CLinton. Screw the NAU, the day it becomes an acuality is the day I start my own 'tea party' and declare war on "the man"

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
 TAG032562
Joined: 12/28/2006
Msg: 133
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/6/2007 12:17:58 AM
jumpingraindrops, your a bleading heart LIBERAL, who dosent see that America is going down the tubes! I ask you, how many jobs in the state that you live in has gone to Mexico or China? Here in South Carolina there are now so many empty buildings where jobs used to be, that you cant keep a count of all the people that are unemployed! Once the NAU is in power then you may not travel to Canada or anywhere else that you would like to. Today we have Freedom in both America and Canada but, soon it will all be gone! Remeber, the NAU will be able to tell you and I what to do and not do. We will not have any Laws to protect us> Hey, as I write YOU here, the U.S. Government is paying Canada to read our EMAIL and keep a record on us as well. Canada is SPYING on all United States Citizens. This was reported in PC WORLD MAGAZINE a few years ago. Also, Cell Phones and Telephones are spyed on as well!
Pull your LIBERAL HEAD OUT OF the LIBERAL SAND and smell the Coffee!
Ok, so I wont win a date with YOU but Hey at least I am a Conservative American!
 TAG032562
Joined: 12/28/2006
Msg: 134
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/6/2007 12:26:31 AM
Hey, any YOU Canadians mind if I run and move to the great north when the NAU comes into power? I guess we can all hide together or defend our Freedom Together! Hopefully Mexicans dont like the extream Canadian Climate! I guess we could all move to Alaska (this might make the Alaskan People leave the Union like they have spoke of in the late 1970's. I lived in Anchorage for over a Year, so cold weather and hot coco or coffee is fine with me! See you guys in the Artic as we hunt for food on the tundra. I believe that Food and Medicine will be under the control of the NAU as well. Hey better read your Bible and be up on Salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ because he is returning soon for the rapture! The antichrist is waiting for Bush and the NAU to complete his job for him so he can be the new ruler! The Rapture is SOON before us!
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 135
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/6/2007 3:06:08 AM
Another article about the NAU and who is behind it.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=20963
 sagehuggins
Joined: 4/1/2007
Msg: 136
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/7/2007 9:59:19 AM
prisonplanet says this mexican/america/candanian union is being massively surpressed and censored i cant tell being here in the uk is it true? and how much is the resistance and awareness growing
 Trewq36
Joined: 2/9/2005
Msg: 137
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/7/2007 10:20:21 AM
Very little awareness and even less resistance because there is so little awareness. The press over here is doing a great job of ignoring this issue. We get a few stories about a few protests (or actually about how the protests are stopped before they even get started), but the media is always very careful to avoid what the protesters are protesting about.
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/7/2007 11:48:40 AM

^^ O fall the countries mentioned in that article, none of then are Pagans. That said I as a Canadian, and a member of the commonwealth am just as against the Idea of a NAU as you americans. I DO NOT want ot be a part of any union that would see Canada adopting ANY american traits..I love my state run health care system, I love my Freedoms to ask the questions, I love the fact that we Canadians are well respected arouund the Globe and I do not want to be associated with either Bush or CLinton. Screw the NAU, the day it becomes an acuality is the day I start my own 'tea party' and declare war on "the man"


Oh man!, 'god save the queen', time to abolish the monarch as our head of state and all that accompanies it, especially the office of GG.

You know it's easy to slam the Americans. How about looking at our own home grown crap. Thieving adscam pencil pushers, Dion an former Environment minister that did nothing except expel hotair for Kyoto and then of course the Seperatist in Quebec.

As a Canadian I was educated to differentiate us from the Americans, but really what are Canadian traits? What are American traits?
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 139
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/25/2007 4:56:56 AM
I found another site which has lots of information on NAFTA, SPP and how it may lead to an NAU. Here is the link to it

http://www.augustreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=4

 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 140
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/26/2007 11:41:30 PM
It doesn't sound like it's just a bunch of folks running around with tinfoil hats that have expressed concerns over these SPP developments. Never hurts to learn things...unless of course the cbc isn't a good source for canucks.


Security and Prosperity Partnership
SPP FAQs

...Because the SPP is not a treaty, like the North American Free Trade Agreement, it doesn't require changes in law or a vote in Parliament.

The Council of Canadians, a group that opposes what they call "deep integration" with the United States, calls the SPP "the political manifestation of a corporate plan for economic and security integration that was never voted on in any country."



Who gets a say in the SPP?

The Canadian government SPP website says that "consultations occur at many levels," although the only specific group it mentions having presented recommendations to it is the North American Competitiveness Council.

The NACC is a group of 30 CEOs from each of the three North American countries, representing some of the biggest corporations in the world. Most of the Canadian representatives are members of D'Aquino's group, the Canadian Council of Chief Executives.

This close consultation with corporate interests is the source of much of the opposition to the SPP in Canada.



Who is opposed to the SPP?

Opposition to the SPP exists in all three countries and on either end of the political spectrum. Progressive groups, particularly in Canada, say the SPP amounts to Canada's deep integration with the United States.

The Council of Canadians says the SPP is anti-democratic, makes Canadians less secure and ties Canada to the U.S. "war on terror." The Council is also concerned about the SPP discussions about bulk water exports from Canada to the U.S.

The NDP has said it has concerns about the SPP's "lack of transparency and democratic oversight." NDP trade critic Peter Julian has tabled a motion calling for public consultations and full Parliamentary oversight of the SPP.

Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion has demanded that Harper reject trade deals involving bulk water exports and insist that the U.S. crack down on gun smuggling into Canada.

Conservative groups, particularly in the U.S., fear that the SPP is a step toward less sovereignty for each country, leading to a North American union in the style of the European Union.

High-profile opponents in the U.S. include CNN anchor and commentator Lou Dobbs, the conservative magazine Human Events and the John Birch Society.

Robert Pastor, director of the Center for North American Studies at American University in Washington, D.C., says American xenophobia is behind the fear of the SPP. Pastor, some of whose ideas form the basis of the SPP, says he receives dozens of e-mails weekly threatening him and calling him a traitor.

Opposition in the U.S. is not limited to right wing groups, though. Democrats and Republicans in Congress joined forces to pass an amendment to a bill on transportation appropriations "prohibiting the use of funds to participate in a working group pursuant to the Security and Prosperity Partnership."

Chris Sands of the Hudson Institute, a public policy think tank, says keeping Congress out of the loop was a mistake on Bush's part.

"That's only made them angrier," he said. "They're now talking about shutting everything down until they can find out what's really going on and decide whether they approve it."


http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/spp/index.html
---------------------

NACC Members
U.S. Representatives:

Lou Schorsch, Mittal
Joseph Gilmour, New York Life
William Clay Ford, Ford
Rick Wagoner, General Motors
Raymond Gilmartin, Merck
David J. O'Reilly, Chevron
Jeffrey R. Immelt, General Electric
H. Lee Scott, Wal-Mart
Robert Stevens, Lockheed Martin
Michael Haverty, Kansas City Southern
Douglas R. Conant, Campbell’s Soup
James M. Kilts, Gillette
Herman Cain, Whirlpool
Canadian Representatives:

Dominic D'Alessandro, Manulife Financial
Paul Desmarais, Jr., Power Corporation of Canada
David Ganong, Ganong Bros. Limited
Richard George, Suncor Energy Inc.
Hunter Harrison, CN
Linda Hasenfratz, Linamar Corporation (NACC chairperson)
Michael Sabia, Bell Canada Enterprises
Jim Shepherd, Canfor Corporation
Annette Verschuren, The Home Depot
Rick Waugh, Scotiabank
Mexican Representatives:

José Luís Barraza, President of Consejo Coordinador Empresarial (CCE) and CEO of Grupo Impulso, Realiza & Asociados, Inmobiliaria Realiza and Optima
Gastón Azcárraga, President of Consejo Mexicano de Hombres de Negocios (CMHN) and CEO of Mexicana de Aviación and Grupo Posadas
León Halkin, President of Confederación de Cámaras Industriales (CONCAMIN) and Chairman of the Board and CEO of four companies in the industrial and real estate markets
Valentín Díez, President of Consejo Mexicano de Comercio Exterior (COMCE) and former Vicepresident of Grupo Modelo.
Jaime Yesaki, President of Consejo Nacional Agropecuario (CNA) and CEO of several Poultry companies.
Claudio X. González, President of Centro de Estudios Económicos del Sector Privado (CEESP) and Chairman of the Board and CEO Kimberly-Clark de Mexico
Guillermo Vogel, Vice President of TAMSA (Tubos de Acero de México)
César de Anda Molina, President and CEO of Avicar de Occidente
Tomás González Sada, President and CEO of Grupo CYDSA
Alfredo Moisés Ceja, President of Finca Montegrande


Opposition
Despite a lack of in-depth information about the NACC, opposition to it in both the U.S. and Canada has focused on the fact that it grants the corporate sector a formal role in the Security and Prosperity Partnership which has thus far been denied to the public, citizens organizations, labour and many legislators, who are still in the dark about the continental pact. In Canada, the Council of Canadians has run several articles about the NACC in its publication, Canadian Perspectives. The citizens organization is calling for the corporate body to be disbanded, and for the Security and Prosperity Partnership to be brought to the Canadian Parliament for a full legislative debate.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Competitiveness_Council
 cubanguy
Joined: 8/1/2007
Msg: 141
view profile
History
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/27/2007 7:27:01 AM
It is interesting that when I clik for the link to NACC from the SPP website I'm automatically redirected to the Council of Americas, as subordinated entity, where coincidentally David Rockfeller is the lifetime Honorary Chairman.
What are the odds?!
 NwMke
Joined: 8/1/2007
Msg: 142
view profile
History
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/27/2007 10:54:07 PM
.

It is interesting that when I clik for the link to NACC from the SPP website I'm automatically redirected to the Council of Americas, as subordinated entity, where coincidentally David Rockfeller is the lifetime Honorary Chairman.
What are the odds?!


"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National autodetermination practiced in past centuries"
--David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting in June of 1991


well now that you mention it
 Trewq36
Joined: 2/9/2005
Msg: 143
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/28/2007 5:54:46 AM

The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers...

So we've gone back to Plato have we? A small step for the elite But, a huge stumble for Mankind.
Please Gawd save us from the people who are serving themselves.
 Schadenfreudian
Joined: 7/5/2007
Msg: 144
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/28/2007 10:14:22 AM

What would all three nations have to gain by forming this North American Union?
Since I believe these agreements were pushed on us by big business who wanted to usurp little labor, one can immediately see the benefit of one BIG BIG work force trying to maintain its standard of living with sub-standard wages...in short: Enslavement of the 2nd order (the one where you voluntarily agree to it).
 HAGAR TH
Joined: 8/10/2007
Msg: 145
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/28/2007 2:27:15 PM
I've noticed that no one seems to have noticed the subgroups involved in this integration process.

Start with the Can AM BTA which directly works in implementing the desired goals of the SPP. Can/Am BTA Annual Washington, D.C. and Ottawa conferences and meetings with senior level government officials.

http://www.canambta.org/html/functional_regions.htm

http://www.canambta.org/html/security_prosperity.htm

Also there is the PNWER ( Pacific NorthWest Economic Region) is a regional U.S.-Canadian forum dedicated to encouraging global economic competitiveness and preserving our world-class natural environment. PNWER is recognized by both the United States and Canada as the “model” for regional and bi-national cooperation because of its proven success. PNWER is a respected voice and resource for our region, and provides the public and private sectors a cross-border forum for unfiltered dialogue that capitalizes upon the synergies between business leaders and elected officials who work to advance the region’s global competitiveness.

http://www.pnwer.org/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx

http://www.pnwer.org/ProgramAreas/WorkingGroups/tabid/143/Default.aspx

http://www.411designstreet.ultimahosts.net/Links/tabid/270/Default.aspx

The Areas covered by PNWER are Washington, Alaska, Idaho, Oregon, Montana, British Columbia, Alberta and the Yukon.

After all that you have the agreement between BC and Alberta on Tilma which is just a smaller form of the BTA agreement, which was PRO Business and ANTI Sovereign state.

If you live in any of the above areas in the USA expect an agreement like TILMA to be negotiated secretely like it was here in Canada.
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 146
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 9/8/2007 10:14:41 AM
New drivers licenses in North Carolina hint at the coming NAU?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57502

P.S. The CFR and others specifically avoid calling it a North American Union. They will just talk about a "North American Community" or "North American Integration" since North American Union is too controversial and in your face and obvious. Remember the CFR's plan of "evolution by stealth" to advance the full integration of Mexico, Canada and the U.S. until it becomes like the E.U. They hope that it will be too late to stop it by the time too many people discover their globalist agenda of working towards one world government.
 Powervamp
Joined: 7/26/2007
Msg: 147
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 9/9/2007 9:57:27 AM
Governors lose in power struggle over National Guard
By Kavan Peterson, Staff Writer

A little-noticed change in federal law packs an important change in who is in charge the next time a state is devastated by a disaster such as Hurricane Katrina.

To the dismay of the nation’s governors, the White House now will be empowered to go over a governor’s head and call up National Guard troops to aid a state in time of natural disasters or other public emergencies. Up to now, governors were the sole commanders in chief of citizen soldiers in local Guard units during emergencies within the state.

A conflict over who should control Guard units arose in the days after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. President Bush sought to federalize control of Guardsmen in Louisiana in the chaos after the hurricane, but Gov. Kathleen Blanco (D) refused to relinquish command.

Over objections from all 50 governors, Congress in October tweaked the 200-year-old Insurrection Act to empower the hand of the president in future stateside emergencies. In a letter to Congress, the governors called the change "a dramatic expansion of federal authority during natural disasters that could cause confusion in the command-and-control of the National Guard and interfere with states' ability to respond to natural disasters within their borders."

Read the full story here...

http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=170453


Everbody keeps saying the war in Iraq is about oil. Maybe its all just a distraction to the populus, and a way to weaken the states. If the Governors retained their power over the National Gaurd, they would have the ability to fight in a civil war.

I guess we know the real reason the White House took control over the National Guard. Its to keep the States from having the military power to preserve the union. That is the best arguemant of why we should withdraw from Iraq.
 Powervamp
Joined: 7/26/2007
Msg: 148
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 9/9/2007 10:33:54 AM
I should add that up until now, I was against withdrawing from Iraq.

The two issues are connected...

Later on people who wish to preserve, or restore the union will be the "terrorists".
 eye8one2
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 149
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 9/9/2007 11:50:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srL39P9yTK4
FOX NEWS: SPP-Amero-NAU:

Thank God, FOX says: Don't Worry, Go Shopping

Everyone needs to relax....

Fox News has aired a detailed report after exhausting investigation and they find that the corporate sponsored government is not oppressive and dangerous to the population of consumers, the buyers of goods and tax payers have nothing to worry about.

I am so glad that FOX is researching this so intensely and spending so much time and effort to protect the consumers from the corporate elites.

yeah, I know, it doesn't matter that FOX is owed by the corporate elite, this is just business, commerce, you know, and corporate has control of the government now and FOX News is the most reliable and most American and freedom loving network in the world.

We are safe because FOX says so but we are not safe from those people who live in tents and caves, those wicked non-consumers of the corporate elites, they are evil for not drinking Pepsi and working all year to pay taxes for wars and spending/trading their wealth and future for entertainment/amusement and plastic crap. Oh those evil people, why won't they trade their resources for their own central banking network that the corporate elite will manage and their own Hollywood built with all the new bells and whistles for their own soap opera world and new magazines for the consumers and the masses.
 Schadenfreudian
Joined: 7/5/2007
Msg: 150
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 9/10/2007 9:03:39 AM
^^^^ Sure, why not go shopping? For that matter, why not just give power of attorney to the corporations to whom our elected officials cowtow so they can DIRECTLY suck the remaining money out of the consumer? Crap, these very same credit pimps sent 44% of our greenbacks as debt-holdings overseas, anyway.

Love your sarcastic parody!
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