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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/24/2006 1:08:46 PM |
The divici code is made nothing other that to be a work of fiction it is not true and should not be veiwed as such...its a good story...but that is all it is!
What of the factual aspects interwoven into this fictional tale? I'm speaking specifically about the Council of Nicea...that isn't fiction but historical fact. The Gospels of Timothy and Thomas...they are not made up, they do exist.
I don't want this to denegrate into a polarized discussion...that's useless. There's a tendancy on these threads (I've found), to paint issues as either black or white, good or bad, right or wrong. Here it seems some have come to the belief that because DVC is a fictional story, that the factual elements are also fictional. It's not an uncommon literary device, taking a historical event (or events) and weaving a fictional tale around it....Gore Vidal's career as an author relied on it. In his book "Lincoln"....while the story is fiction, the historical backdrop is factual. | |
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*Illsa
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Joined: 10/10/2006
Msg: 28 | |
| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/25/2006 3:50:05 AM | I won't tell you how I know...unless you ask me personally, but Englishfrog in the post above is correct when he says the historical backdrop is factual in the book the Da Vinci Code...
The symbology in the book is also correct and does exist...and more...the one thing that is incorrect is the sexual ritual portrayed in the book...at least as of yet I am unaware that this is part of our tradition. The honor of the 'sacred feminine'...yes, but the actual participation within a circle of fratres and sr.s of a sexual act depicting the union of such, hmmmm...no.
As far as being Christian, although not 'religious' per se...there are persons within the ranks of mine and other fraternal societies that demonstrate the truest definition of Christianity, love and the promotion of peace...by my estimation even more so...
Luci4
 Angel in disguise | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/25/2006 2:14:28 PM |
as of yet I am unaware that this is part of our tradition.
Given the fact that Pagan or Neo-Pagan worship lacks the degree of orginization that other religions have....it's hard to have a standardized "tradition". Even within Wicca there are different traditions, but also some commonalities like drawing the circle. We're emerging from a period of open hostility to Pagan beliefs, but there are still an army of Christians who buy into the demonization of so many symbols and practices by the early Roman Church. The pentacle for example is still viewed by many as symbolic of Satanism...sad but true. | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/25/2006 2:51:55 PM |
You are wrong on your statement labradorian...it's not only a book!! It's also now a film!!
Your brilliant! But what i meant there was that it is only a pile of paper and ink.....or film. I did not mean that it was only in book form..... All im saying there is that it is a book and to make a big deal over what is said in a book is not my style. I found the book very interesting but when it comes down to what is accurate or fact, I really could nto care less.
Yes!, you are quite correct....the Bible is a book!! A book written by devinly inspired men!!
They were no more divinely inspired that my dog is lol
As for as your "2 cents"...I think you are way to high!! LOL!!
Don't remember flaming you! I take that as what i said was not worth anything at all, maybe to you it wasn't............what i originally said was all true, both are books, can't argue that can you.
Im not saying everything in the bible is wrong or right, My point is that to strickly live your life by what someone else has written is too conforming for me. I retract the crazy statement.........
PS...and which book do you claim to have written?? LOL!!!
I looked at my post and can't see it writen anywhere that i said i have claimed to write anything. can anyone else see it?
BUT If I were to write a book though, It would probably be called "The Book of Common Sense and Reasoning"
Also....what pray-tell, DO YOU base your life on??
My life is based on common sense and reasoning. I do not conform to any religion, I do have strong morals and values, which were given to me by my family who are catholic. Not once did they open up a bible while i was growing up. But for some amazing thing we turned out just fine, we are a very classy family, well respected and successfull.
So thanks for backing me up "Themadfiddler" I did take 's comments as an attach on my character......... He says it is an attact on my opinion, which i understand..........but his tone and condensending nature was not appreciated :) He could of worded it a little differently..............
Cheers
Glen | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/25/2006 6:06:38 PM | | The Da Vinci code is pure fiction. I could write a novel about Captain Max Johnnie of the Essex Scottish in the battle of Dieppe. The Essex Scottish had men fighting there, fact, Dieppe was a real battle, but it doesnt mean it is true or there was a Capt Max Johnnie! It would be fiction, regardless of my adding some real events. The Da Vinci code is fiction, does not portray the real story of Christ or his teachings. Pure and simple. Thanks | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/25/2006 6:11:06 PM |
The Da Vinci code is fiction, does not portray the real story of Christ or his teachings. Pure and simple. Thanks
From what source do you derive the "real" story? The gospels chosen at the council of Nicea only? Do you look at older Gospels that weren't made part of Canon when Roman Emperor Constantine convened the council?
Do you entertain the possibility that Constantine's council "massaged" Christianity to fit with his own pagan inspired belief system? You should read what Constantine said about Jews. | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/25/2006 7:09:15 PM | Musicmaker
By no means was i "running hot", I was just simply stating my opinion and point of view.
If you noticed i did retract my statement of living our lives based on a book is crazy.
You live your life your way and i will live mine my way :) Does not mean either one of us is right.
You really should open your mind a little and realize that there are other good people out there and that religion is not part of their lives. Which is fine, and that those people are just as happy with their lives as you are with yours. One can live as an atheist or what ever and be just as successfull as a religious person.
Whether im an "atheist" or not, that is just a label, the same as "ignorant Idiot" is a label, Your obviously an ignorant idiot If you think what you believe is correct and no one else is right, that surely is ignorant. I have many friends that are religious, but they are acepting of me and know i don;t go to church and that im not religious, but i keep it to myself and respect their beliefs as they respect mine.
Im also a peacefull man 99.9% of the time but when i come across ignorant idiots like you, i also exibit that "tenth" percent.
So musicmaker, you do not talk down to me like you did and not expect a reaction like the one above. be a little open mined and don;t talk down to people and we will be nice too.
Chow! | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/27/2006 4:45:52 PM | Two interesting things on this thread.
The Nicean council and De Vinci code.
first, the De Vinci code is based on several biblical controversies/heresies that are well known in Europe, but little known here. The book is fiction but it's background is based on stuff going back centuries. I wish folks raised Christian looked into their history. They would be amazed at how much of their traditions are culturally based and changed over time.
For instance, the bible doesn't actually say The Virgin Mary was a virgin. The word used means "young maiden". There is an Exact word in both Latin and Greek for virgin, but it was not used. Now she may be a virgin. Nothing in the bible says she wasn't. That is a matter of faith. But it is not really in there. ALOT of Christian doctrine/dogma is based on subtle mistranslations or "implied meanings".
The Council of Nicea took a stab at unifying the various Christian traditions. Until that time there were huge differences in scriptural interepretations and sacrements. Many churches saw Jesus as a prophet, not Son of God. Soem revered John the Babptist more than Jesus. The Nicean Council took the "Roman church's" view on these issues and suppressed dessent. The rival groups went underground and mostly died out. They were burned at the stake in Europe, or overrun by the Muslims in The middle East.
Nevertheless these alternative views didn't dissappear entirely and found new life in the renniasance. Educated folks, skeptical of the church and Popish corruption of the day, flocked to Pagan and Neochristian beliefs. Many of the Cathedrals have pagan symbology in design and art. It's right under the noses of the believers. Many have overt symbolism representing Mary as Isis. If you look closely at entrance of the Cathedrals in Chartres or Notra Dame you will see a huge Vulva that the believer must enter into. Entering into the womb of Mary(Isis) with that symbology carried out further inside.
Many of the Cathedral builders were secret heretics who made some great art at odds with the Christian dogma. That is what The De Vinci Code goes into. | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/27/2006 4:55:30 PM | Thanks straycat....I think there are some latter day Papists here, who would like to see books like DVC banished and burned, and discussion halted. But I think the genie is out of the bottle so to speak.
I still believe Christianity as a faith is reconciable to the information that is coming out. Of course if won't be "Faith of Our Fathers"....but that's okay. Rebirth is a constant theme in the Bible, and in God's creation. | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/27/2006 7:13:29 PM | "The Bible" prior to the Council of Nicea didn't exist as such. Each church had a different copy, there were more Gospels out there than just the 4 that the council adopted as canon. The Gospels of Timothy and Thomas were written in Aramaic, which is the language Jesus spoke. After the council, the Bible was "canon" or law...and except for translations has stayed basically the same. Mat Mrk Luk Jhn, those are the 4 Gospels in the Roman Catholic Bible...and in an evangelical's Good News Bible. The decision that they were in and others out was made at Nicea. "
~ In the writings of Iraneus, A.D. 180, he attests the canonical recognition of the four Gospels and Acts, of Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus, of 1 Peter and 1John and of the Revelation--that's most of our New Testament decided 150 years before Nicea.
There is considerable evidence such as this that by A.D. 150 at the latest, the church recognized a New Testament pretty close to the one we have today.
In "The Da Vinci Code"--I believe it's Teabing who says it - it states that in Aramaic the word "companion" could mean "spouse." The Gospel of Philip is actually Coptic, not Aramaic, and so the word's meaning in Aramaic is irrelevant. But the word used is neither Aramaic nor Coptic, but is actually a Greek loan word, "Koinonos", which clearly refers to a friend or associate, not spouse. So the one shard of textual evidence that could support the idea, doesn't. | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 10/27/2006 7:44:10 PM | I'll tell you what I love about these forums....the discussion points you in directions which leads to the discovery of new facts. I wasn't familiar with this guy Iraneus...and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
But in going to Wikipedia you can become familar with him and just about anything else. It seems Iraneus was no fan of followers of the so called "Gnostic" gospels. So successful was the early church in branding this more individualistic faith as heresy that until the discovery at Nag Hammadi in 1945 little was known of the Gnostic gospels.
According to wikipedia
"the term is used more widely to identify groups emphasizing the salvific benefit of individual wisdom..."
Imagine that??? Gaining salvation on one's own without an authoritarian church having any power or control. | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:47:38 AM | Our group wrapped up last night, it was an interesting discussion. We discussed the manner in which different faith groups have reacted to the book....
For some it's akin to blashemy, with the Bible being the only source which God wants us to use as a source for Divine revelation.
For our group, it was an eye opener. Reading up on how the Council of Nicea was formed and conducted....How the Gnositic gospels with their slant toward individualism were branded heresy by a very controlling church body. Interestingly those who are less inclined toward Roman Catholicism still hold to the belief system established when the Church of Rome was created.
On a personal level I find my faith in God stronger now than it was just recently. Death and ressurection are constant themes throughout history, and in God's creation. Whether you take the Bible as literal truth or as metaphor....to me that's not important, in both ways the Bible gives witness to what I consider Divine Will or God. Be it Jesus or Horus or the Moon disappearing for 3 days only to be "reborn"....it's a manifestation of the Divine in my opinion. Of course it's easier to focus one's devotion on a historical individual than it is to worship a concept... | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 11/26/2006 5:19:54 PM | | harry potter probably wrote the divinci code under a spell and was magically inspired by mohammed who knows today?either way it is the bait of satan, it can offend people , the greek word offend in luke 17:1 comes from the word skandalon. this word originally referred to the part of a trap to which the bait was attached.in the new testament it often describes an entrapment by the enemy. a trap needs one of two things in order to be successful. either it must be hidden, in the hope that an animal will stumble upon it, or it must be baited to lure the animal into the traps deadly jaws. satan incorporates both of these stratagies as he lays out his traps. theyre hidden and baited. if were not trained by the word of god to rightly divide between good and evil, we wont recognize his traps for what they are, what direction are peoples thinking heading, read 2 timothy 2:24-26nkjv jesus says that in our day lawlessness will abound, and as a result the love of god in the hearts of believers will grow cold; but he who endures to the end will be saved matthew 24:12,13 most of all i am concerned for our children on , we do have right of religious speech and expression in our nations public schools, student can pray read the bible, distribute literature,express views, form religious clubs, may wear religious clothng or jewlery, offense is a serious issue and many are held in its death grip.the love of god is the key to freedom from its trap. we cannot be seduced into taking the bait of satan | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 11/26/2006 7:00:02 PM | The "Good vs Evil" or God versus Satan angle is one the early church used to great effect....as the sole judges as to what constituted Godliness it proved extremely effective in quelching debate Many today still employ the "Fer us or agin us" ploy in an effort to stamp out any ideas or beliefs which threaten their world view.
It's the ultimate conspiracy theory foisted upon us by some Church leaders and their adherents, Satan is conspiring to rob us of our salvation....all we must do is blindly follow the dictates of Rome or whomever else holds themselves out to be God's spokesperson and we will foil the plot. | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 4/13/2007 4:25:22 PM | | why cant people have a practical spiritualality in stead of going on a book aparently written by those thousands of years ago about things thousands of years ago and then fight about it "scientists say this" "arceologests say this this" "historians say this" then theres a man who can saved you with little effort from yourself is it benetifical to believe in chirist or be chirist meaning the model of chirist. Be or believe you decide | |
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| Using 'The DaVinci Code' as a tool for Christian discussion....
Posted: 4/15/2007 2:13:31 AM | to the original OP, the da vinci code does have some interesting theories, and some have yet to be disproven. my point would be that it was losely based on Holy Blood Holy Grail. like someone already mentioned, the best part of all of this is the introduction of Gnostic concepts.
If you would really like to spice up your church discussion, i would read "the women in the alabaster jar" i totally forget who wrote it. anyhow, it focuses the theory toward the true blood royal or San grael. it also has a very beautiful perspective on how the author is still christian despite her scientific beliefs that mary magdelene was J.C's wife. the book is not meant to toy with your beliefs of god. it does address the obvious factors affecting religion in that day - egyptian sun god, scientifical frame of reference, but more importantly discusses the relativity of our ever growing ability to conceptualize - how this effects christianity.
i am not a Christian but i did love this book. i would consider it a well researched companion to any similar theories. | |
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